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XU fan let's not lose sight of the point of this thread: Dez Wells is a punk and your coach has not control and blows. Deal with it.

(08-28-2013 04:32 PM)Milhouse08 Wrote:  

(08-28-2013 04:16 PM)Eastside_J Wrote:  

(08-28-2013 12:36 PM)Milhouse08 Wrote:  I don't think we'll ever be a .500 again. Just because our Non Conference will be a lot easier. We won't be quite at what UC's looks like. But still similar in terms of a bunch of Buy games of 100-200 RPIs not 250+.

Recruiting wise: My only concern is it will take a little while to ramp up recruiting. That said we have the staff to do it. Dez was Xavier's highest recruit ever. Next year what happens? He gets Semaj xavier's highest recruit ever.

I'm not worried about the decommitments. Honestly we've had kids just decommit because our league was week. Look at DSR (Big East Rookie of the year) had X been in the Big East he'd have been on our team but we weren't. Swift decommitment? That's the staff saying they can do better. Which I'm fine with.

Xavier has always been about developing the players anyway not bringing in top recruits. Look at D. West, Derrick Brown, Tu Holloway. Guys I'm sure most of you hate. But they developed into great players.

Whoa now, you assume DSR would have been a muskie if X had been in the BE? Please notify the Georgetown people you are now on par with them, I am sure they would get a kick out of that.

I do agree that Xavier, prior to Chris Mack was about developing players and in the cases you mentioned that worked out well. None of the players you mentioned are Mack's recruits, so we will see what happens as far as development to "his guys".

IMO 5 or 6 emerge from the BE to at-large tourney bids next year:
Gtown, Marq, Vill, Creighton solidly with St. Johns one of the last 5 or 6 in and Butler on the bubble.

You guys edge out Providence for the 7th in the conference and neither make the tournament.

Depaul is awful - no need to enter them into the conversation.

The beauty of everything is the games need to played no matter what. So we'll see what happens. I'm not saying we for sure make the tournament next year because we have some holes and the competition will step up. That's for certain. I'm glad you have your opinion and I have mine. But DSR was committed until his father got in his ear about playing in a more visible league.

Tu Holloway Developed 100% under Mack. He went from a top 150 recruit to an All American in 3 years. He did well under Miller but it was under Mack that we saw his growth.

That said Yeah Sean Miller is a better coach than Mack. No doubt. But I love Mack. Love that he's from Cincinnati and that he has risen through our ranks from player to director of basketball operations, to assistant coach to associate coach to head coach.

I hope Cronin stays at UC and I don't think he's a good coach (shocker) I mean you guys have a weak OOC schedule and that has hurt you a lot the last couple years. That has to change now that your conference is nowhere near as strong. I also think Cronin just can't really field a great team, he can't seem to get those really good shooters.

Is Kilpatrick good? Yes, is he great? No. He won't be a first rounder (or a draft pick?) because he's not efficient at all and is a pure volume shooter. He'll score 25 points. But it will be on 20+ baskets.

I'm interested to see what Jermaine Lawerence will do. Very excited to see him up against Jaylen Reynolds these next 3-4 years (both have a lot of pro potential).

Man you have so much wrong here:

You aren't going to see much, if any, of Lawrence against Jaylen Reynolds. Reynolds is a very strong PF with a close to the basket offensive game. He is not going to be out on the wing, he is not going to put the ball on the floor. Lawrence, at this point is a thin, agile 3/4 who can handle the basketball and play outside and inside.

Perhaps both have pro potential - they have a grand total of exactly zero D1 games to prove that fact. But if I were Reynolds I wouldn't wait too long to show it, he is a 21 year old "Frosh", not exactly ideal for the NBA who are all about upside. BTW with all the transfers and academic busts, I think you might have the oldest team in college basketball

Kilpatrick is ineffiecient? Huh? We have been dying to see him take 20 shots a game. he has done it exactly 3 total times in 3 years.

It is very odd to hear NBA talk from you though. Have any of Mack's players been drafted? Tu Holloway wasn't even seriously in the NBA conversation - not such a good thing to be a small PG with mediocre shooting stats who throws the ball away nearly as often as creating an assist. I don't think he has managed to hang on to a Euro team roster either, but I could be mistaken. Mark Lyons was closer and would have made it if he had been able to play PG, which he couldn't - at all.

I know you guys are talking about Semaj "leaving early". I don't think you have too much to worry about. Semaj going to the NBA is predicated completely on being taken as a PG. He has to be an assist guy and playmaker. Because lets face it - he is visibly scared to death to take a 3 pt shot and for good reason! No NBA team is going to take a 6'3" off guard who can't shoot from the college distance, let along the NBA line. Congratulate Mack on keeping him in the off guard role opposite Dee Davis though. The kid is tremendously quick and athletic and if he develops as a PG, or develops a jump shot, it could be a different story. --> Just my .02 but the main reason we didn't offer Semaj is because he couldn't shoot. The question is whether a kid who is about 21 years old, playing basketball his whole life can develop into a shooter. Maybe, Maybe not - Good luck with it.

I think that the underlying point of your post is a good one Eastside:

If Semaj and Reynolds are the NBA threats X fans make them out to be (and to be fair I believe I was told some mock drafts have Semaj going in the first round this year), both are almost definitely gone this year.

Which would be just what X needs. Rebuild some more.

Just when Chatter could provide some of his own,inimitable brand of insight.................

(08-28-2013 10:06 PM)Overrated Wrote:  I think that the underlying point of your post is a good one Eastside:

If Semaj and Reynolds are the NBA threats X fans make them out to be (and to be fair I believe I was told some mock drafts have Semaj going in the first round this year), both are almost definitely gone this year.

Which would be just what X needs. Rebuild some more.

No Reynolds is not NBA threat this year but has the potential for SURE.

And Semaj has first round potential? yes he does. Some have him going as high as 6th.

No one in the NBA will take a point guard that can't shoot a 3? Tony Parker is a career 31% shooter from 3 point line. Rajon Rondo a carrer 24% shooter from 3 point line. I'd say those guys have carved a pretty good career for themselves in the NBA (note: RINGS)

Semaj is far from a finished product. That said who on UC has more potential to get drafted next year than him?

Anyway I'm done UC fans I'll leave you to your banter here. It was nice having intelligent discussion with some of you.

End of the day we won't respect each others programs. That's probably part of the problem.

Good luck in the ACC! See ya'll in December.

(08-29-2013 07:31 AM)Milhouse08 Wrote:  

(08-28-2013 10:06 PM)Overrated Wrote:  I think that the underlying point of your post is a good one Eastside:

If Semaj and Reynolds are the NBA threats X fans make them out to be (and to be fair I believe I was told some mock drafts have Semaj going in the first round this year), both are almost definitely gone this year.

Which would be just what X needs. Rebuild some more.

No Reynolds is not NBA threat this year but has the potential for SURE.

And Semaj has first round potential? yes he does. Some have him going as high as 6th.

No one in the NBA will take a point guard that can't shoot a 3? Tony Parker is a career 31% shooter from 3 point line. Rajon Rondo a carrer 24% shooter from 3 point line. I'd say those guys have carved a pretty good career for themselves in the NBA (note: RINGS)

Semaj is far from a finished product. That said who on UC has more potential to get drafted next year than him?

Not what I said at all - no one will take a 6'3" OFF GUARD who can't shoot a 3. Semaj was playing the 2 last year opposite Dee Davis and creating a lot of turnovers.

Like I said, if he can play the PG role all bets are off. He might even be a first round pick. He has the body and the athleticism of an NBA PG.

And you can bet Chris Mack would love to put him at the 1 so that he can play Myles Davis or Brandon Randolph at the off guard spot. If Dee Davis minutes go way down, it means Mack thinks he can take over the role. If Dee continues to be the relied upon lead guard, it will tell you (and the NBA) all you need to know.

Regarding Reynolds - perhaps - but remember you have NEVER seen him play a D1 game. Probably a bit premature to annoint him as NBA bound, don't you think? I know you guys are all giddy about seeing him push people around in the summer league. That's nice - my advice is, don't get too down on him when his capability looks a bit different November on. You are going to have to play guys like Chris Obekpa this year, might want to slow your roll.

Oh there is 100% no doubt that he's a great point guard. His turnovers were so high last year because we flat had a bad team. He still averaged 15 and 5 with only trav taylor being a scoring option.

I think next year if Mack benches dee and we see myles at the 2 its not ridiculous to think that Maj will go for 17 and 7. He can be a pass first point guard too but fact is after lyons and wells departed last year we needed his ability to get buckets in the paint.

He is a great PG but hasn't been able to show it. That said even after playing the 2 spot majority of the year (we can't have a 5' 10" player playing the 2 guard...just wont work) he still lead the team in assists.

Gotta respect him. He loves his city too. I was always hoping Gates would develop and do well as a Cincy boy. I really think had he come to X and had miller as a coach he would've dominated. Mack probably not so much. But Miller was great with Big Men.

How is someone that is 21 years old not an NBA threat this year, but that same person has great NBA potential going forward?

(08-29-2013 08:34 AM)Milhouse08 Wrote:  Oh there is 100% no doubt that he's a great point guard. His turnovers were so high last year because we flat had a bad team. He still averaged 15 and 5 with only trav taylor being a scoring option.

I think next year if Mack benches dee and we see myles at the 2 its not ridiculous to think that Maj will go for 17 and 7. He can be a pass first point guard too but fact is after lyons and wells departed last year we needed his ability to get buckets in the paint.

He is a great PG but hasn't been able to show it. That said even after playing the 2 spot majority of the year (we can't have a 5' 10" player playing the 2 guard...just wont work) he still lead the team in assists.

Gotta respect him. He loves his city too. I was always hoping Gates would develop and do well as a Cincy boy. I really think had he come to X and had miller as a coach he would've dominated. Mack probably not so much. But Miller was great with Big Men.

Man you have more "ifs" and "buts" than Dandy Don Meredith.

OK you win ,I am sold - yeah so what if you are one of the few teams in history to have a future lottery pick NBA PG on your team who couldn't win enough games to get an NIT bid.

Nevermind that, with TWO NBA players now - you will obviously be dominant.

Gates would have been Tim Duncan if he had only played for X and the only reason DSR chose G'town because a guy got "in his ear" (those manipulative fathers, I tell you! )

I am headed to Vegas now those idiot oddsmakers think you don't have a chance. They are listing you at 200:1 down with the teams they don't expect to make the tournament. Don't they know Semaj is a lottery pick and the next Rondo (who wasn't a lottery pick), but for actually playing the position yet and that Jalen Reynolds was a beast in the summer league?

The best part is I guarantee the guys at G'Town, Vill, Marquette and St. Johns will never see it coming. They probably see a team that went nowhere last year, are incorporating a lot of new guys and have 4 or 5 players on the roster who will rarely get any PT at all. You can do what you do best, sneak up on them!

(08-29-2013 07:32 AM)Milhouse08 Wrote:  Anyway I'm done UC fans I'll leave you to your banter here. It was nice having intelligent discussion with some of you.

End of the day we won't respect each others programs. That's probably part of the problem.

Good luck in the ACC! See ya'll in December.

Good luck with the "New BE." Aresco and the AAC are laughing all the way to the bank with the exit fees, tourney shares and sale of naming rights. The perception won't change--that the BE will never again be what it was so the brand itself is of dubious value. No more ESPN, Big Monday, BE vs. SEC challenge, etc. The AAC will begin with the reigning national champs in both men's and women's basketball; thereafter UConn, Cincy and Memphis will be formidable for years to come. Heck, SMU just got the #1 basketball recruit in the country this week. And the conference TV home remains the worldwide leader with the largest number of households and multiple channel options.

I see (and hear from a friend with X ties) that the storm clouds are gathering on Victory Parkway and my guess is the scandals mean Father Graham won't remain and a housecleaning will follow. Could be a long, painful process that rocks the entire university. Stay tuned.

(08-20-2013 10:09 PM)eroc Wrote:  Tried to find the previous thread but couldn't:

Quote:Maryland guard Dez Wells suing Xavier for expulsion
14 minutes ago

University of Maryland guard Dez Wells filed a federal lawsuit Tuesday seeking damages against his former school, Xavier University, and its president, Father Michael Graham, over what he asserts was his wrongful expulsion last summer.

The suit alleges Xavier failed to follow its own policies when deciding to expel him following a 2012 allegation of sexual assault. The local prosecutor investigated the case and not only declined to charge Wells but declared in media accounts the allegation "didn't reach anything close to a standard of proof" and "should never have gotten to the point where someone's reputation is ruined." A grand jury also declined to indict the basketball star.

The lawsuit, filed in United States District Court in Cincinnati seeks monetary compensation, as well as an overturning of the expulsion to clear Wells' name of what he calls a false accusation.

Wells, according to his attorney, has no interest in returning to Xavier, but has suffered "severe emotional distress" for having been essentially deemed a rapist – and heckled as such while playing road games. This, Wells said, is his best chance to set the record straight with the public and hold Xavier accountable.

"From the moment this nightmare began, I've been trying to get everyone to understand that I am innocent," Wells said in a statement through attorney Peter Ginsberg. "The supposed leaders at Xavier destroyed my reputation. It needs to make this right. Xavier needs to set the record straight."

Xavier released a statement from Father Graham to Yahoo! Sports on Tuesday evening.

"We have read the complaint and the allegations of wrongdoing are unfounded and cannot be supported," Graham said. "The process used by the Xavier University Conduct Board applies to all of our students and is the standard used in American universities. After members of the Conduct Board reached their decision, the matter was considered and upheld in an appeal. The sanction for the offense was expulsion.

"The University has never revealed the specific charge against Dez Wells other than to say he was found responsible for a violation of the Student Code of Conduct. The university will vigorously defend the process and the decision."

After being expelled in the summer of 2012, Wells transferred to Maryland. The NCAA, in a rare move, ruled on appeal to grant him immediate eligibility rather than make him sit out a season like most transfers. He started 37 of 38 games and led the Terrapins in scoring with 13.1 points a game. He will be a focal point of the team again this season.

It is highly unusual, if not unprecedented, for an active, high-profile player to file a federal suit against another NCAA member institution. Adding to the uniqueness of the case, Wells' most powerful advocate is Hamilton, Ohio prosecutor Joseph Deters, who has forcefully and publicly, defended Wells and blasted Xavier's handling of the incident as "fundamentally unfair."

"If I thought [Wells] did this, he'd be in prison," Deters says in the lawsuit. "I wouldn't pull any punches."
Wells, a native of Raleigh, N.C., was named to the Atlantic 10 All-Rookie team following the 2011-12 season.

Last summer, on the night of June 7, 2012, he engaged in what he asserts was consensual sex with a Xavier student.
The two, among others, had been hanging out that night in their dorm playing a game of group "truth or dare," according to the lawsuit. "A number of the dares were sexual in nature," the suit alleges, including lap dances and stripping. The two kissed multiple times during the evening before going to the woman's room, where, according to the suit, she asked if Wells had a condom before they had sex.

The next day she reported to the campus police she had been sexually assaulted. She later met with Cincinnati police but declined to press charges. Undeterred, Deters, the local prospector assigned two staff members to look into the incident.

Deters, according to the suit, quickly "developed serious concerns about [the] truthfulness of the allegations." He left messages with Father Graham, the Xavier president, in an effort to convey those concerns but the messages were not returned, the suit alleges. He later discussed with another Xavier official and instructed his concerns be passed on Graham.
Before the prosecutor finished his work and a grand jury cleared Wells, however, the player was called before Xavier's University Conduct Board, where the lawsuit alleges a group of administrators, faculty and students "impermissibly placed the burden on Wells to prove his innocence."

The suit runs through a litany of what it alleges are breaches of the UCB rules and procedures. It also hammers the group for either dismissing or ignoring the concerns of the prosecutor's office, failing to wait for "vital laboratory tests" and allowing for just a brief, two-day appeal process. It also alleged UCB members "had received woefully inadequate training" to make a ruling on these kinds of cases.

The UCB expelled Wells on Aug. 3, 2012. On Aug. 28, a grand jury declined to indict him and Deters took to the local media to stand up for the player and urge Xavier to reconsider.

Ginsberg alleges Xavier acted unfairly to Wells because it was under pressure from an investigation by the U.S. Education Department's Office of Civil Rights for mishandling previous allegations brought against male students and treating them too leniently.

"It was much more anxious to appease the Department of Education then satisfy its own obligations to fairness for its own students," Ginsberg told Yahoo! Sports Tuesday night. "Unfortunately, Dez was the sacrificial lamb."

Ginsberg cites Father Graham ignoring the prosecutor's urge for caution and reconsideration as proof.
"It should have been clear to university officials on their own that the accusations were fictitious," Ginsberg said. "Add to that a trained professional with no skin in the game was imploring Father Graham to hold off and act responsibility and Father Graham simply ignored Mr. Deters admonitions."

The suit seeks a jury trial in Ohio and seeks unspecified damages. Outside the specific wording of the lawsuit, Wells stated he is also seeking an apology from Father Graham.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--mary...02176.html

Ok, I guess we can forgive you. I submitted a similar thread three days prior to this one. Just for the facts and the fact I'm ALWAYS accused of submitting information days after someone else has submitted the same thread. Oh well, I guess I was actually first on this one. No matter how we look at it, this is a GOOD, GOOD thing.

When reputations are ruined without evidence, it is NOT a good thing.

When people feel as though they have no recourse other than the courts, it is NOT a good thing.

When people lose their jobs because of the mistakes of others, it is NOT a good thing.


One can esily say that X had it coming to them, but never celebrate the misfortunes of others. Even my grand daughter who has yet to enter kindergarten knows that much.

never celebrate the misfortunes of others