(09-16-2013 08:57 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  BYU and Air Force football only or it's not worth it:

West: SMU, Houston, BYU, Air Force, Memphis, Tulane, Tulsa

East: UC, UConn, USF, UCF, ECU, Navy, Temple

Right now, there is not enough value to add existing Eastern based schools. The only brands available are AF and BYU.

I think you could throw Army in as a "brand"---but, Air Force and BYU seem to be better on field performers with the same brand quality.

ODU (Norfolk/Virginia Beach) and UTSA bring two Top 50 markets lock, stock, and barrel. There's your answer.

(09-13-2013 12:51 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 10:38 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(09-12-2013 02:24 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Potential candidates for a MAC 12th:

1) Army. They are still officially on the table for the MAC and would put the MAC back into the NY market.

2) Marshall. Herd fans are cool to the idea of rejoining the MAC but CUSA has become very diluted.

3) Appalachian State. The school is about to embark on a transition from FCS to FBS with the Sun Belt Conference. They are kind of out there geographically from the MAC footprint but so was Buffalo.

4) Arkansas State. As the SBC continues to take hits in membership, AState would be a school potentially interested in a 12th position and more stability than the SBC. Louisiana is growing so fast they'll probably be next in line for a CUSA bid over AState so ASU may be receptive to the MAC.

Those are the only 4 from FBS that I think make any sense for the MAC at this time. Unless you want to dig into the FCS ranks which I know you are opposed to.

Not sure about App State or Ark State. But Marshall fans seem 100% opposed to re-joining the MAC. And MAC fans seem to be 90% opposed.

If Army-football wants to join a conference, they would probably want to join the conference in which Navy-football is a member.

I know. I'm just listing who is potentially available in order of desirability.

Out of all those candidates the most likely for mutual interest is Appalachian State since the MAC would be a more stable situation than the SBC. The SBC due to the D4 thing may see a few members move down to FCS.

There was a plan 18 months ago to bring App, JMU and ODU all into the MAC to go to 16 for football but ODU decided to take CUSA's offer. Once that happened the MAC was less interested in expanding into the Piedmont region.

SBC is not in any danger of losing members to FCS. I could potentially see Idaho and NMSU dropping for very obvious reasons, but the rest of the teams all have the athletic budgets to hang with a D4 move. Remember, the entire SBC approved the Stipend...whereas several other G5 schools did not. Arkansas State and ULM run with the lowest Athletic budgets in the league, and both administrations have indicated they are fine with a stipend.

Getting Arkansas State out of the SBC is going to take proof that we could see an improvement financially from the move as Arkstfan said. Unlike a lot of other SBC schools, ASU is the #2 team in Arkansas, and has very few regional rivals as it is. We wont gain or lose fans by a move either direction, so its up to a league to prove that it could make it worth while financially. Its not that a MAC move is impossible...I still think it is our most likely destination if we ever move...I just don't think we are moving unless the SBC falls apart or CUSA splits or something crazy happens.

(09-14-2013 10:42 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Ohio is the shot here because they are trying to push attendance up to 30k, and the endowment is now close to 700 million (tops in the MAC) after the last fundraising drive.

I still believe the cash in the AAC needs to more upfront and also have the conference build some tradition by winning a few CFP bowls before we'll be more comfortable with the idea.

Ohio had some interest in CUSA pre-realigment but after all the moves to that conference its rendered a move there obsolete.

Wait what?

Ohio's endowment is $409 million, Buffalo's is $736.3 million. Ohio's enrollment is 25,300 and UB's is 29,500.

I mean there are a ton of reasons to say Ohio rather than UB, they mostly have to do with, you know, athletics. But you're way off on the numbers.

That isn't counting Ohio's most recent fundraising drive. The school has just raised 426 million of additional money of which about 200-300 million is going to the endowment.

http://www.ohio.edu/advancement/foundation/

Quote:In setting a target, the group examined how much Ohio University needs for crucial academic programs compared with how many potential donors the school has and how much money they are likely to give.

As a cornerstone of the campaign, the university would like to increase its endowment from $286million to more than $600 million. Colleges generally invest endowment money and use the earnings to provide a stable source of funding.

Nearly 70 percent of the money raised will go to the endowment and be used for five broad areas: supporting core academic initiatives; increasing student scholarships and faculty-endowed professorships; investing in research; renovating campus buildings; and expanding outreach efforts such as a free clinic and OU's Kids on Campus program

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/...-450m.html

This article was 3 years old talking about getting the endowment from 286 million to 600 million by the end of the campaign.

Given that Ohio's base endowment because of investments is now at 409 milllion and that with 70% of 426 million raised equates to 298 million.......that pushes Ohio's planned endowment out to 708 million when the campaign concludes.

(09-16-2013 10:25 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 10:42 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Ohio is the shot here because they are trying to push attendance up to 30k, and the endowment is now close to 700 million (tops in the MAC) after the last fundraising drive.

I still believe the cash in the AAC needs to more upfront and also have the conference build some tradition by winning a few CFP bowls before we'll be more comfortable with the idea.

Ohio had some interest in CUSA pre-realigment but after all the moves to that conference its rendered a move there obsolete.

Wait what?

Ohio's endowment is $409 million, Buffalo's is $736.3 million. Ohio's enrollment is 25,300 and UB's is 29,500.

I mean there are a ton of reasons to say Ohio rather than UB, they mostly have to do with, you know, athletics. But you're way off on the numbers.

That isn't counting Ohio's most recent fundraising drive. The school has just raised 426 million of additional money of which about 200-300 million is going to the endowment.

http://www.ohio.edu/advancement/foundation/

Quote:In setting a target, the group examined how much Ohio University needs for crucial academic programs compared with how many potential donors the school has and how much money they are likely to give.

As a cornerstone of the campaign, the university would like to increase its endowment from $286million to more than $600 million. Colleges generally invest endowment money and use the earnings to provide a stable source of funding.

Nearly 70 percent of the money raised will go to the endowment and be used for five broad areas: supporting core academic initiatives; increasing student scholarships and faculty-endowed professorships; investing in research; renovating campus buildings; and expanding outreach efforts such as a free clinic and OU's Kids on Campus program

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/...-450m.html

This article was 3 years old talking about getting the endowment from 286 million to 600 million by the end of the campaign.

Given that Ohio's base endowment because of investments is now at 409 milllion and that with 70% of 426 million raised equates to 298 million.......that pushes Ohio's planned endowment out to 708 million when the campaign concludes.

So theoretically you will top 700 million and be second in the MAC... Well done.

Marshall has what it wants in C-USA. A pretty regional league, that heads south, not midwest. They won't get invited to the AAC because of the academic profile (unfair that may be).
UAB's Board doesn't really want them to be more than a sunbelt/new-cusa football program. That will completely stymie them until that changes, because unless they put money into the program, they aren't going to do much (but I think real money would energize that program).
Watch for South Alabama...they might be a solid program soon, putting more pressure on Southern Miss (who I think is a long term reclamation project) in the process.
Successful C-USA and sunbelt programs will be those that take advantage of niches...a big niche now is the prohibition on oversigning by the SEC. This schools to sign AQ level athletes that are unqualified on signing day and hope they qualify...1 or 2 of these a year will make a team a winner. This practice, however, will make it more problematic for these teams from moving up to better conferences.
Private schools will continue to show improvement especially as they are now getting the idea that the benefits from playing good football far outweigh any harm by allowing 2% of so of your student body to have modest incoming academic credentials. They have money, and money-raising infrastructure.

(09-17-2013 07:06 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 10:25 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 10:42 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Ohio is the shot here because they are trying to push attendance up to 30k, and the endowment is now close to 700 million (tops in the MAC) after the last fundraising drive.

I still believe the cash in the AAC needs to more upfront and also have the conference build some tradition by winning a few CFP bowls before we'll be more comfortable with the idea.

Ohio had some interest in CUSA pre-realigment but after all the moves to that conference its rendered a move there obsolete.

Wait what?

Ohio's endowment is $409 million, Buffalo's is $736.3 million. Ohio's enrollment is 25,300 and UB's is 29,500.

I mean there are a ton of reasons to say Ohio rather than UB, they mostly have to do with, you know, athletics. But you're way off on the numbers.

That isn't counting Ohio's most recent fundraising drive. The school has just raised 426 million of additional money of which about 200-300 million is going to the endowment.

http://www.ohio.edu/advancement/foundation/

Quote:In setting a target, the group examined how much Ohio University needs for crucial academic programs compared with how many potential donors the school has and how much money they are likely to give.

As a cornerstone of the campaign, the university would like to increase its endowment from $286million to more than $600 million. Colleges generally invest endowment money and use the earnings to provide a stable source of funding.

Nearly 70 percent of the money raised will go to the endowment and be used for five broad areas: supporting core academic initiatives; increasing student scholarships and faculty-endowed professorships; investing in research; renovating campus buildings; and expanding outreach efforts such as a free clinic and OU's Kids on Campus program

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/...-450m.html

This article was 3 years old talking about getting the endowment from 286 million to 600 million by the end of the campaign.

Given that Ohio's base endowment because of investments is now at 409 milllion and that with 70% of 426 million raised equates to 298 million.......that pushes Ohio's planned endowment out to 708 million when the campaign concludes.

So theoretically you will top 700 million and be second in the MAC... Well done.

The story really is the school has passed by Miami in the endowment rankings, the traditional endowment king of MAC schools.

Regardless of the AAU, Ohio and Buffalo are overall on pretty similar footing reputation wise and in the rankings. Good schools but not thought of as Public Ivy's. Miami though was listed in the original Public Ivy book and is often thought of as a Public Ivy.

(09-16-2013 05:57 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  The league needs to get away from football only schools, basketball only schools. That was one of the problems with the Big East, two divisions of schools, those that play certain sports and those that don't. It's a bad trap to fall into. If a certain school wants only football, we should not accept them. So I'm not for Navy, Air Force or any football only admission to the AAC. If we are going to get any schools, I would look at the MAC conference such as:

1) Toledo
2) Ohio University
3) Marshall
4) Buffalo

"Marshall"
Did you mean to say Miami?

I can understand the reluctance to bring in new members that do not compete on all-sports basis. But the comparison with the Old Big East is misguided, in my view, because in that scenario, the "two divisions" felt threatened by each other and were constantly jockeying for position/influence and trying to steer the league's identity in "their" direction. With Navy and (just for the sake of argument) Army/Air Force, that internal tension and conflict would not be present, and it never would be. The service academies would not be seeking -- today, tomorrow, or ever -- to add VMI and Citadel. They would not be seeking -- today, tomorrow, or ever -- to join a different/rival league. The threat of them starting a new league -- à la the C7 -- would be non-existent.

Although I am sure they would vote as a bloc on football-related issues, I honestly can't envision any scenario whereby they would seek to steer the entire league in a direction away from the interests of the all-sports members. The AAC benefits by having Navy in the league, and would benefit more if it could somehow get Army and/or Air Force, as well.

Up to this point, the AAC has looked toward CUSA for fill-ins aside from Temple which was grabbed from the MAC.

UCF and Houston were always in the strategic playbook for the BE/AAC due to markets. SMU got in as a replacement for TCU. Temple/Memphis were basketball adds. The AAC then went back to CUSA for Tulane (market), ECU (fans), Tulsa (success). At this point CUSA doesn't have very much in the way of quality candidates.

Since the AAC footprint is at at minimum the eastern US and a maximum the whole country it makes sense to not make the conference too southern and to take a second look at MWC and MAC schools just to keep the membership diverse.

Kittonhead

This thread is about AAC expansion. Not AAC replacement candidates if it gets raided again.

Not one single decisionmaker is the AAC is thinking about MAC or C-USA schools right now.

(09-16-2013 07:35 PM)ODU1986 Wrote:  ODU (Norfolk/Virginia Beach) and UTSA bring two Top 50 markets lock, stock, and barrel. There's your answer.

Those schools are not wanted by the upper leagues or their TV partners. Now, if AAC is content to remain GO5 - indistinguishable from SB, CUSA, MAC - then fine.

(09-13-2013 11:06 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Army has won its last national championship in football. But there's no inherent reason why they have to suck forever.

They're improving slightly every year.
If they could find an option Head Coach like Paul Johnson,
they'd have an improvement similar to Navy's.

(09-18-2013 09:18 PM)old salt Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 11:06 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Army has won its last national championship in football. But there's no inherent reason why they have to suck forever.

They're improving slightly every year.
If they could find an option Head Coach like Paul Johnson,
they'd have an improvement similar to Navy's.

True.