(09-09-2013 11:10 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 10:52 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Few thoughts:

1. The Army add would have to require a change in leadership viewpoint from what it was. While Air Force was certainly at least considering the Big East, the impression from Army was they wanted nothing to do with a football conference. That can certainly change, but I think it was probably the position a few years ago.

2. UTEP would take a Mountain West offer. They talked about going with the Mountain West side when Conference USA and the Mountain West were talking about a merger and I think they'd take the invite almost right away now.

3. Air Force would be tough to get. Given what we've already seen with western members sticking to the Mountain West, I think they are out.

A change in Army opinion would still make expansion worthwhile. My guess is the conference would try to bring back some northern exposure and go with UMass.

I agree with you with all things here except the UMASS to the AAC idea.

UMass has a lot of issues going for it.

1) Membership block by UConn
2) Off campus stadium 93 miles away
3) Poor attendance (struggling to meet the 15,000 requirement)
4) Horrible performance on the field.
5) Is in year 2 of an FCS to FBS transition

Buffalo would be a much better idea for the AAC.

1) On campus stadium that seats 29k (planned expansion to 35)
2) Local access to an NFL Stadium
3) Planned increase of student enrollment to 40,000
4) Already has won a conference championship at the FBS level
5) Has played at the FBS level since 1999.

Neither of those schools make sense for football. My preference would be to add UMass and VCU for Olympic sports only. Bring in Army for football only.

Personally, Id be fine with adding Army and just holding temporarily at 13. One thing I will say, if you add another eastern team in Army, then its more likely that another more western team is the eventual #14. He said academics were important. Obviously Air Force would be preferred, but I don't think that's happening. The only other western schools known for academics that makes sense geographically is Rice. Rice is a long time member of the top level of football. An academic southern Ivy and a former SWC member with significant football history. They have improved to be a relatively decent football team (3 bowl appearances since 2006 including one in 2012). They appear likely to head for a bowl again this year.

(09-09-2013 10:12 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Wow! 14? If Army is involved then I can see the enticement for Air Force to join football only and move there other sports in the WAC and Summit.

However, UTEP is out of the question, they want to be tied to the Texas schools. If there is any other school out there for the MW it would be either NMSU or Texas St who would be most available to move. While wanting UTSA, I don't think they want to move out of C-USA for the time being.

Army joining the AAC is no inducement for AFA to do so. The three academies are mandated by the Pentagon to play each other. Their respective conference affiliations are irrelevant.

(09-09-2013 11:12 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:00 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 10:40 AM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 10:12 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Wow! 14? If Army is involved then I can see the enticement for Air Force to join football only and move there other sports in the WAC and Summit.

However, UTEP is out of the question, they want to be tied to the Texas schools. If there is any other school out there for the MW it would be either NMSU or Texas St who would be most available to move. While wanting UTSA, I don't think they want to move out of C-USA for the time being.

No they don't. In fact UTEP has made it clear that they want out of CUSA.

http://www.mwcconnection.com/2013/1/10/3...nsion-utep

Andy Katz also wrote in another article a few months back that UTEP has approached the MWC about membership. Here are Katz's statement:


CUSA may end up at 16:

"The next movement out of the CAA could be James Madison. JMU is currently weighing what it will do with football. If it were to upgrade, then the first phone call could be to join ODU in CUSA. If that were to happen then CUSA would have to grab one more school to get to an event number, likely looking toward the Sun Belt again."

***

"Oh, and UTEP would love to be in the Mountain West instead of CUSA, according to industry sources."

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=639777

If so....then why did the MW add Utah State instead of UTEP?

Utah was a big geographic hole that had to be filled.

Houston and SMU were still in CUSA and UTEP wanted to stay with them, so the Miners turned down the MWC's offer to join along with USU. SJSU was added to the MWC instead. Then Houston and SMU jumped to the Big East and UTEP was left behind.

Now UTEP wants into the MWC but it's too late. The door won't open again unless the MWC loses a member (unlikely) or BYU wants to come back (very unlikely).

I think you mean stay at 12 for now...

I think one thing we may see is someone added for Olympic Sports only as Navy doesn't play those. Get to 12 for everything else.

(09-09-2013 11:22 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 10:12 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Wow! 14? If Army is involved then I can see the enticement for Air Force to join football only and move there other sports in the WAC and Summit.

However, UTEP is out of the question, they want to be tied to the Texas schools. If there is any other school out there for the MW it would be either NMSU or Texas St who would be most available to move. While wanting UTSA, I don't think they want to move out of C-USA for the time being.

Army joining the AAC is no inducement for AFA to do so. The three academies are mandated by the Pentagon to play each other. Their respective conference affiliations are irrelevant.

What it does is allow the academies to be MUCH more flexible with their OOC schedules as the 2 academy games become conference matchups. Is that enough for Air Force to make the move? I'd say that's unlikely unless the AAC tv contract makes a huge leap forward. I could see D-4 easily becoming a huge factor in G-5 realignment. We wont know about that for some time.

I don't see any programs other than Army that make sense right now, and that's more for their prestige than their on-field stuff.

However, there are a few teams that are close (Ohio, NIU) and a few that would make sense if they can prove themselves on the FBS level for a few seasons (Charlotte, ODU, UMass).

(09-09-2013 11:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think you mean stay at 12 for now...

I think one thing we may see is someone added for Olympic Sports only as Navy doesn't play those. Get to 12 for everything else.

I hope so. Adding VCU seems like a no-brainer to me.

No way is ODU in the conversation. We are done propping them up. That was Terry Holland's mistake. I think we would likely block them at this juncture.

I wonder for Aresco what he's looking for- is it primarily football or basketball? If it's basketball but respectable in football, I think that knocks out NIU and even UMass. I think Ohio would become a huge factor.

(09-09-2013 11:40 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  No way is ODU in the conversation. We are done propping them up. That was Terry Holland's mistake. I think we would likely block them at this juncture.

No question, but can 1 team block anyone if the rest of the conference is for them?

(09-09-2013 11:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I wonder for Aresco what he's looking for- is it primarily football or basketball? If it's basketball but respectable in football, I think that knocks out NIU and even UMass. I think Ohio would become a huge factor.

The problem with Ohio is fan support. They've got their crap together on the field and court though. Another question is would they leave the MAC?

Of course, after watching the SMU game the other night, I wonder if fan support is high on the list for the AAC.

I would kind of think though that ECU would be less likely to block ODU now than back when they were in CUSA. I mean, there's a lot less of a chance of ODU beating ECU going to a bigger conference(don't see either of them, but if one of them, I think the bigger favorite would be ECU because of football to the SEC) now- than when ECU was in C-USA and it was very reasonable to see ODU eventaully passing up ECU in the Big East minds.

(09-09-2013 11:47 AM)Chappy Wrote:  Of course, after watching the SMU game the other night, I wonder if fan support is high on the list for the AAC.

Or football :)

AAC came within a whisker of ANOTHER FCS loss.

UTSA and Army to AAC, that would be my personal choice.

(09-09-2013 11:44 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I wonder for Aresco what he's looking for- is it primarily football or basketball? If it's basketball but respectable in football, I think that knocks out NIU and even UMass. I think Ohio would become a huge factor.

The problem with Ohio is fan support. They've got their crap together on the field and court though. Another question is would they leave the MAC?

They have decent fan support. Their football stadium only holds 24K and they sell close to capacity. They have shattered their basketball attendance records the past couple seasons. IIRC they led the MAC in both footbal and basketball.

I don't see any reason for them to leave the MAC however unless the American got a huge pay raise. All of their current opponents are within a bus ride of the team and fans which keep costs down. They are not going to end in some cases a century of playing certain schools to play schools in Texas, Oklahoma or Florida.

(09-09-2013 01:08 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:44 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I wonder for Aresco what he's looking for- is it primarily football or basketball? If it's basketball but respectable in football, I think that knocks out NIU and even UMass. I think Ohio would become a huge factor.

The problem with Ohio is fan support. They've got their crap together on the field and court though. Another question is would they leave the MAC?

They have decent fan support. Their football stadium only holds 24K and they sell close to capacity. They have shattered their basketball attendance records the past couple seasons. IIRC they led the MAC in both footbal and basketball.

I don't see any reason for them to leave the MAC however unless the American got a huge pay raise. All of their current opponents are within a bus ride of the team and fans which keep costs down. They are not going to end in some cases a century of playing certain schools to play schools in Texas, Oklahoma or Florida.

I think they would leave in an instant. The money more than doubles what the MAC makes. But the kicker would be---all their football games on national tv (ABC/ESPN/ESPN2/ESPN-U/ESPN-News/CBS-Sports) and virtually every home conference basketball game broadcast nationally on those same networks. That exposure is worth it all by itself even if the earned the exact same money. That exposure would become a very nice recruiting advantage for Ohio and would be a big deal in growing their fan base.

(09-09-2013 11:44 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I wonder for Aresco what he's looking for- is it primarily football or basketball? If it's basketball but respectable in football, I think that knocks out NIU and even UMass. I think Ohio would become a huge factor.

The problem with Ohio is fan support. They've got their crap together on the field and court though. Another question is would they leave the MAC?

That is interesting that you point to Ohio's fan support as a negative when Ohio leads the MAC in both football and basketball attendance.

Leading the MAC on a home schedule that includes the little sisters of the poor every year. If the school had the kind of home schedule that ECU has put together that would inflate attendance numbers greatly.

(09-09-2013 01:44 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 01:08 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:44 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I wonder for Aresco what he's looking for- is it primarily football or basketball? If it's basketball but respectable in football, I think that knocks out NIU and even UMass. I think Ohio would become a huge factor.

The problem with Ohio is fan support. They've got their crap together on the field and court though. Another question is would they leave the MAC?

They have decent fan support. Their football stadium only holds 24K and they sell close to capacity. They have shattered their basketball attendance records the past couple seasons. IIRC they led the MAC in both footbal and basketball.

I don't see any reason for them to leave the MAC however unless the American got a huge pay raise. All of their current opponents are within a bus ride of the team and fans which keep costs down. They are not going to end in some cases a century of playing certain schools to play schools in Texas, Oklahoma or Florida.

I think they would leave in an instant. The money more than doubles what the MAC makes. But the kicker would be---all their football games on national tv (ABC/ESPN/ESPN2/ESPN-U/ESPN-News/CBS-Sports) and virtually every home conference basketball game broadcast nationally on those same networks. That exposure is worth it all by itself even if the earned the exact same money. That exposure would become a very nice recruiting advantage for Ohio and would be a big deal in growing their fan base.

As an Ohio Bobcat expert, I can say that any TV deal would have to be able to offset 1.2 million dollars of increased travel costs for leaving a bus league AND be enough to support raising the salaries of Ohio FB/BB coaches from 800k a year to the 2.8 million range expected in the AAC.

Its my opinion that the time to join the AAC isn't right now for Ohio....the time is in 2020 once the AAC builds up a war chest of basketball money from runs in the NCAAs. Ohio is scheduled to complete a basketball practice facility by that date and would be ready to roll in the AAC.

The Ohio campus is also getting a major upgrade in dormitory housing over the next 5 years which should make the school a real gem.

Of course by 2020 though what will AAC membership look like? Will Cincinnati still be there? Does it matter at that point?

Some of my thinking here is that once UC and UConn head for $$$ pastures that the AAC may reload in the East with Ohio, Buffalo and UMass. Given that Ohio is FB rivals with Buffalo and UMass plus Temple from their days in the MAC I can see a lot of interest in trying to reload with Ohio.

(09-09-2013 01:55 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 01:44 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 01:08 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:44 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:41 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I wonder for Aresco what he's looking for- is it primarily football or basketball? If it's basketball but respectable in football, I think that knocks out NIU and even UMass. I think Ohio would become a huge factor.

The problem with Ohio is fan support. They've got their crap together on the field and court though. Another question is would they leave the MAC?

They have decent fan support. Their football stadium only holds 24K and they sell close to capacity. They have shattered their basketball attendance records the past couple seasons. IIRC they led the MAC in both footbal and basketball.

I don't see any reason for them to leave the MAC however unless the American got a huge pay raise. All of their current opponents are within a bus ride of the team and fans which keep costs down. They are not going to end in some cases a century of playing certain schools to play schools in Texas, Oklahoma or Florida.

I think they would leave in an instant. The money more than doubles what the MAC makes. But the kicker would be---all their football games on national tv (ABC/ESPN/ESPN2/ESPN-U/ESPN-News/CBS-Sports) and virtually every home conference basketball game broadcast nationally on those same networks. That exposure is worth it all by itself even if the earned the exact same money. That exposure would become a very nice recruiting advantage for Ohio and would be a big deal in growing their fan base.

As an Ohio Bobcat expert, I can say that any TV deal would have to be able to offset 1.2 million dollars of increased travel costs for leaving a bus league AND be enough to support raising the salaries of Ohio FB/BB coaches from 800k a year to the 2.8 million range expected in the AAC.

Its my opinion that the time to join the AAC isn't right now for Ohio....the time is in 2020 once the AAC builds up a war chest of basketball money from runs in the NCAAs. Ohio is scheduled to complete a basketball practice facility by that date and would be ready to roll in the AAC.

The Ohio campus is also getting a major upgrade in dormitory housing over the next 5 years which should make the school a real gem.

Of course by 2020 though what will AAC membership look like? Will Cincinnati still be there? Does it matter at that point?

Some of my thinking here is that once UC and UConn head for $$$ pastures that the AAC may reload in the East with Ohio, Buffalo and UMass. Given that Ohio is FB rivals with Buffalo and UMass plus Temple from their days in the MAC I can see a lot of interest in trying to reload with Ohio.

im glad to see an educated fan.

reminds me of the FSU homers who dont realize that a b12 move adds 7 mill in added travel costs despite only gaining 5 mill at most