(10-14-2013 01:32 PM)Chappy Wrote:  Shane drew the Tulane player offsides, and threw a TD pass on what should have been a free play, except for the fact that the official blew his whistle. It's up for debate whether the Tulane defender gave up on the coverage when he heard the whistle.

I agree with this.

I can also agree that the whistle was blown in error.

What I cannot agree with is the idea -- which some people seem to believe -- that the play would have turned out exactly the same way even if the errant-whistle had not been blown. I don't think anyone knows the answer to that, and I don't see how anyone possibly can know the answer to that.

(10-14-2013 01:51 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 01:32 PM)Chappy Wrote:  Shane drew the Tulane player offsides, and threw a TD pass on what should have been a free play, except for the fact that the official blew his whistle. It's up for debate whether the Tulane defender gave up on the coverage when he heard the whistle.

I agree with this.

I can also agree that the whistle was blown in error.

What I cannot agree with is the idea -- which some people seem to believe -- that the play would have turned out exactly the same way even if the errant-whistle had not been blown. I don't think anyone knows the answer to that, and I don't see how anyone possibly can know the answer to that.

Now I didn't see this particular play, but it is possible for there to be no contact with a player and offside is still penalized. Unless the rule has changed, if a player goes unabated toward the QB, then they'll call it.

Now again, I didn't see the play, so don't know if this even applies...

Lots of respect for the discussion from the last 2 posters. This is exactly what I was talking about. Tulane played really well. Congrats and I hope to see y'all in the C-USA championship for a rematch.

I was there. Sitting right on the line of scrimmage in the plaza section. The play happened right in front of me. As soon as the Tulane defensive player ran off sides the refs started whistling and running in towards the point of the center/QB exchange signalling dead ball (arms waving). Not just one. Several. There is no question that everyone heard it and saw it. Every player stopped immediately as they are supposed to in order not to get flagged for a dead ball unsportsmanlike conduct. Even the ECU receiver stopped, then shortly started running again, obviously uncovered since the whistle(s) had been blown and the play ruled dead. The only possible ruling at that point concerning the pass then thrown by the QB to the receiver would be delay of game on ECU for throwing the ball down field after play had been stopped. And no, I don't think it should have been called, but that was the only other reaction to the pass the officials could legitimately make. I don't think anyone at the game, even the ECU fans sitting across from me, ever even entertained the thought that it was a live play and that ECU scored on it. I guess you had to be there. If you were, and you are not deaf (so as not to hear the whistles) and blind (so as not to see the refs waving their arms), you know that the play was dead before the snap.

"It's up for debate whether the Tulane defender gave up on the coverage when he heard the whistle."

Really? Again no one on the field or even in the stands could not have heard the whistles or seen the officials waving the play dead. I think if you actually watched more than that one play you can probably figure out that Tulane does not coach the DBs to stand and watch a receiver run down the field uncovered on a live play. Of course he didn't cover the receiver. If he would have covered him and hit him to break up the pass he would have been risking a dead ball late hit call.

There were calls both ways in the game that could possibly be debated. This isn't one of them.

(10-14-2013 06:09 PM)Wavefan Wrote:  I was there. Sitting right on the line of scrimmage in the plaza section. The play happened right in front of me. As soon as the Tulane defensive player ran off sides the refs started whistling and running in towards the point of the center/QB exchange signalling dead ball (arms waving). Not just one. Several. There is no question that everyone heard it and saw it. Every player stopped immediately as they are supposed to in order not to get flagged for a dead ball unsportsmanlike conduct. Even the ECU receiver stopped, then shortly started running again, obviously uncovered since the whistle(s) had been blown and the play ruled dead. The only possible ruling at that point concerning the pass then thrown by the QB to the receiver would be delay of game on ECU for throwing the ball down field after play had been stopped. And no, I don't think it should have been called, but that was the only other reaction to the pass the officials could legitimately make. I don't think anyone at the game, even the ECU fans sitting across from me, ever even entertained the thought that it was a live play and that ECU scored on it. I guess you had to be there. If you were, and you are not deaf (so as not to hear the whistles) and blind (so as not to see the refs waving their arms), you know that the play was dead before the snap.

I only got to see it live once, didn't have the benefit of a DVR to replay. If it developed as you described here, I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem with it. It seemed like it should have been a free play and of course, I was watching with purple-colored glasses. Hope we get a rematch in the championship. Good luck the rest of the way until then.

(10-14-2013 06:24 PM)Wavefan Wrote:  "It's up for debate whether the Tulane defender gave up on the coverage when he heard the whistle."

Really? Again no one on the field or even in the stands could not have heard the whistles or seen the officials waving the play dead. I think if you actually watched more than that one play you can probably figure out that Tulane does not coach the DBs to stand and watch a receiver run down the field uncovered on a live play. Of course he didn't cover the receiver. If he would have covered him and hit him to break up the pass he would have been risking a dead ball late hit call.

There were calls both ways in the game that could possibly be debated. This isn't one of them.

Okay, haven't weighted in on this till now, cause we could have won the game on at least 5 other plays.

No one is debating on if a whistle was blown or if the officials waved off the play. We know they did, we know the play was stopped. What some are saying is that was the mistake. They are saying the officials shouldn't have stopped play. It should've have a free play for ECU.

I have watched the play, the player that jumped off sides didn't have clear shot at the QB, he was engaged at the line, so by rule the should have been allowed to continue.

The only thing here I'll say, if it hadn't been stop it was a 50/50 play for TD, the WR got a good jump, but only would have had one step on the DB and a few play later scored a TD. So, IMO the point is moot.

If Carden doesn't throw a 100 yard pick 6 it's game over, if Justin Hardy doesn't muff the punt game over, if Warren Harvey makes one or two more FGs game over, we had two good shots a picks that could have ended it, but missed. This one play didn't win the game for Tulane or lose it for ECU. Time to move on people.

(10-14-2013 11:11 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 06:24 PM)Wavefan Wrote:  "It's up for debate whether the Tulane defender gave up on the coverage when he heard the whistle."

Really? Again no one on the field or even in the stands could not have heard the whistles or seen the officials waving the play dead. I think if you actually watched more than that one play you can probably figure out that Tulane does not coach the DBs to stand and watch a receiver run down the field uncovered on a live play. Of course he didn't cover the receiver. If he would have covered him and hit him to break up the pass he would have been risking a dead ball late hit call.

There were calls both ways in the game that could possibly be debated. This isn't one of them.

Okay, haven't weighted in on this till now, cause we could have won the game on at least 5 other plays.

No one is debating on if a whistle was blown or if the officials waved off the play. We know they did, we know the play was stopped. What some are saying is that was the mistake. They are saying the officials shouldn't have stopped play. It should've have a free play for ECU.

I have watched the play, the player that jumped off sides didn't have clear shot at the QB, he was engaged at the line, so by rule the should have been allowed to continue.

The only thing here I'll say, if it hadn't been stop it was a 50/50 play for TD, the WR got a good jump, but only would have had one step on the DB and a few play later scored a TD. So, IMO the point is moot.

If Carden doesn't throw a 100 yard pick 6 it's game over, if Justin Hardy doesn't muff the punt game over, if Warren Harvey makes one or two more FGs game over, we had two good shots a picks that could have ended it, but missed. This one play didn't win the game for Tulane or lose it for ECU. Time to move on people.

Pretty much sums it up

(10-14-2013 06:24 PM)Wavefan Wrote:  "It's up for debate whether the Tulane defender gave up on the coverage when he heard the whistle."

Really? Again no one on the field or even in the stands could not have heard the whistles or seen the officials waving the play dead. I think if you actually watched more than that one play you can probably figure out that Tulane does not coach the DBs to stand and watch a receiver run down the field uncovered on a live play. Of course he didn't cover the receiver. If he would have covered him and hit him to break up the pass he would have been risking a dead ball late hit call.

There were calls both ways in the game that could possibly be debated. This isn't one of them.

Agree, but there is no excuse for the officials to blow that dead in the first place. Offsides is not a dead ball foul like illegal procedure or false start.