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"Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
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Post: #21
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
Interesting to look at who doesn't schedule FCS games.
Among the P5
1 USC
2 UCLA
3 Notre Dame
those are the only 3 never to have scheduled an FCS game
4 Penn St.
5 Oklahoma
6 Michigan
7 Stanford
8 Texas
and among the rest:
9 Rice
10 UTSA
11 UTEP
12 North Texas
13 New Mexico
14 Southern Miss
15 Tulsa
16 Memphis
17 FAU
18 UCF
19 Miami (O)
20 Hawaii

Pitt, UNC, Maryland, ECU and Idaho only schedule transitional Old Dominion (who still plays a majority FCS schedule).

When you look at the P5, you have to ask why most of the kings skip FCS, but Alabama, Florida and Florida St. play them every year and Ohio St. does it occasionally.
10-09-2013 04:23 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #22
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 04:19 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The ONLY solution that will work is to mandate the number of home & away games.

There already is a rule -- FBS teams have to play at least 5 home games. That prevents a strapped-for-cash G5 program from playing a bodybag game for every single non-conference game. (Admittedly it means they can still play 3 if they have an 8-game conference schedule.)

If you're suggesting that teams not be allowed to play more than 6 home games, that won't happen. Even a limit of 7 has no chance of passing and would be meaningless if it did, because few teams play 8 home games -- Texas A&M is one of the only teams doing it this year -- and those that do have huge economic power and could get around the rule by playing 7 home games plus a neutral-site game if they really wanted to.
10-09-2013 04:29 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #23
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
IMO this is a non issue. SOS is going to be a big part of the college football playoff, and OOC games are a part of that. You will see those kinds of games falling by the wayside in due time...
10-09-2013 04:34 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #24
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 02:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:There will be 322 non-conference games played this season. Only 7.8% of all non-conference games will be between the 62 members of the top five conferences, not counting Notre Dame (ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac-12 and SEC). By comparison, 34.4% of all non-conference games will involve FCS teams.

There is a fundamental flaw in this statistic. If every P5 team played one other p5 team OOC then that would be only 9.6% of games involved p5 versus P5. So while 7.6% sounds low, just consider that number. Or, to add to this, what if eight of those teams played ND (not in the numbers) in place of another P5 team and the rest all played one other team each? Now you end up with only 8.4% of games being P5 vs. P5 despite each team playing at least one. See how distorted that makes the numbers look.

As for the actual numbers, they don't include games versus Notre Dame,
games against future P5 teams (Louisville and Rutgers) or games against teams that were part of the club when the games were scheduled (USF, Cincy, and UConn) or teams considered their equivalent (Boise St, BYU).
If you include those games, then the percentage goes up to 14.6%, nearly double, just by adding the 22 games against these 7 teams (note I did not include OOC games pitting any two of these teams). To put this in perspective, if EVERY P5 team played every OOC game versus a P5 team, we would still only have 33.9% of all OOC games be P5 vs. P5.

Thus this number must be viewed in context.


[quote='JRsec' pid='9833673' dateline='1381352564']
If each P5 conference had 4 divisions you would have 4 divisional champions playing off for the right to their conference's championship. Therefore winning the division is the first priority of every team, not style points for running up a score on a hapless opponent, not scheduling only the bottom of another P5 conference to get a guaranteed win that counts, not scheduling cupcakes. .

Problem here is you don't end up with 4, 8, or 16 teams. So you have to use something other than just champions to get a playoff. Then you have to seed them. At some point, the schedules or style points comes back into the mix.
10-09-2013 04:37 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #25
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 04:38 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 04:34 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  IMO this is a non issue. SOS is going to be a big part of the college football playoff, and OOC games are a part of that. You will see those kinds of games falling by the wayside in due time...
Maybe for the teams with playoff aspirations. Those teams that are just hoping to get to 6 wins and let their coach keep his job for one more year are going to keep scheduling FCS teams and every other "beatable" opponent they can.
And if D4 comes to pass, FCS games may not even count on the record of any D4 school. Go5 schools could end up taking the place of FCS schools on P5 schools schedules...

Who knows for certain what the future holds?
10-09-2013 04:43 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #26
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 04:34 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  IMO this is a non issue. SOS is going to be a big part of the college football playoff, and OOC games are a part of that. You will see those kinds of games falling by the wayside in due time...

Last year, for example, NAU rated higher than 20+ FBS teams (and NAU beat UNLV). A top of FCS team like NDSU is going to rate in the top half of FBS.
10-09-2013 04:48 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #27
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
On the subject of non-conference games, this is the kind of game we should see more of, and it's a cool idea:

Quote:Bruce Feldman
@BFeldmanCBS

#VaTech to play #Tennessee at Bristol Motor Speedway in 2016, per source. Expected to draw a record 150,000-160k fans.
https://twitter.com/BFeldmanCBS/status/3...1848941568
10-09-2013 04:48 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #28
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
I suggested a few years back that Kentucky and Louisville should play once every five years at Churchill Downs.

The problem of course is it looks cool on TV, and sees fun the first few minutes. Then you realize you just paid a Shitton of money for a very, very Shitty view of the game.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2013 04:53 PM by adcorbett.)
10-09-2013 04:50 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #29
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
Fix your "[/quote]" JR
10-09-2013 04:51 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #30
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 04:48 PM)Wedge Wrote:  On the subject of non-conference games, this is the kind of game we should see more of, and it's a cool idea:
Quote:Bruce Feldman
@BFeldmanCBS

#VaTech to play #Tennessee at Bristol Motor Speedway in 2016, per source. Expected to draw a record 150,000-160k fans.
https://twitter.com/BFeldmanCBS/status/3...1848941568
What next? Kentucky vs. Louisville at Churchill Downs...
10-09-2013 04:55 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #31
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 04:51 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Fix your "
" JR
[/quote]

We'll see if this works. What I said is that you clipped the part of the quote that said in a P5 the champions with the two poorest records could have a play in game for the final four slot. But, I agree that having at large entrants is a problem. The best solution is to move to a P4 setup.
10-09-2013 04:56 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #32
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
One way to look at OOC sheduling is to look at how a team schedules in relation to its strengths as measured by financial resources, facilities, coaches, recruits, fan and alumni support, media exposure, etc. On a scale of 1-10 most D1 sub divisions fall into this approx distribution, on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the biggest, baddest, most elite programs-

10 P5 super power teams
7-9 P5 teams
4-6 G5 teams
1-3 FCS teams

The imbalance in OOC scheduling can be demonstated by comparing the scheduling philosophies of Ohio and Ohio State. I would rate Ohio about a 5 on the scale and Ohio State is definitely a 10.

Ohio schedules 1 P5 team (7-9) that is always played away, 1 FCS team that is always played at home, and home and away series with 2 G5 teams, usually an average 1 (5) and a poor 1 (4). If Ohio wants to increase their standing from a 5 to a 6 they need to trade up one of their games, most likely the bad G5 to a good G5 or low P5.

As for Ohio State, they are clearly a 10 but their OOC scheduling is nearly identical to Ohio's with the exception that the P5 game is a home and away and the other 3 are always home games. Over a 2 year period OSU plays 7/8 OOC games at home.

Ohio State, and other similar P5 schools have A LOT of room to grow. There should be at least 1 more P5 school in the 7-9 range and wouldn't it be great if they scheduled at least 1 team on their level (10) every year?
10-09-2013 05:01 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #33
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 04:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 04:51 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  JR, Fix your "[quot e]"

We'll see if this works. What I said is that you clipped the part of the quote that said in a P5 the champions with the two poorest records could have a play in game for the final four slot. But, I agree that having at large entrants is a problem. The best solution is to move to a P4 setup.

Yeah but that gets back to the problem you were trying to fix.

Also it was my fault. I left out a quite mark and mine was messed up too. If you quoted me, then it messed up yours
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2013 05:08 PM by adcorbett.)
10-09-2013 05:05 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #34
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 05:05 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 04:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 04:51 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  JR, Fix your "[quot e]"

We'll see if this works. What I said is that you clipped the part of the quote that said in a P5 the champions with the two poorest records could have a play in game for the final four slot. But, I agree that having at large entrants is a problem. The best solution is to move to a P4 setup.

Yeah but that gets back to the problem you were trying to fix.

Also it was my fault. I left out a quite mark and mine was messed up too. If you quoted me, then it messed up yours

My only point is that until we have any structure that allows champions to progress through to the finals we will never be shed of committees, politics, polls, and the need to impress the talking heads that enhance public awareness and influence pollsters.

Form follows function. If we want a clear on the field path to a championship and want to eliminate the other politics and nonsense then all we have to do is adopt a structure that permits those changes to be made. When winning a division, then your conference to get into a 4 team playoff becomes the focus of each upper tier team then the need to play patsies will be gone. The divisional round robin becomes priority number 1, your other conference games priority number 2, and the priority for out of conference games becomes total earning potential, not padding stats and overall record.

Even with 5 conferences seeding the top 3 conference champs and having a play in between the other two settles it on the field. It's just not a clean way to handle it because of the extra game.
10-09-2013 05:21 PM
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Post: #35
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 02:49 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I'll do so Wedge as top tier FBS schools have various reasons for their FBS schedules. In the writer's world, how does he plan to butterfly away the state mandated games that Clemson and SCAR must play against SC State and The Citadel? His position is strictly fan based and neglects that both FBS and FCS school benefit from the current arrangement. While's he was thoroughly entertained by that UGA/Clemson game, it really hasn't benefited the Dawgs. People still lament that UGA has played North Texas and will play GA Southern later this year.

If you play in a conference that is highly respected, there's no reason to try and schedule a difficult OOC. tOSU SOS is only marginally better than Louisville, but rest assured that they will get in ahead of a 1-loss SEC team, no matter how 'good' that loss is. Ultimately, the marginal ROI preclude schools from wanting to schedule the intersectional matchups. Maybe the CFP and networks can change that (ESPN was a big reason for such a great opening weekend to the CFB season), but I'm doubtful.


Those games aren't state mandated, it's just a practice both schools have adopten
10-09-2013 08:57 PM
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HuskieJohn Offline
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Post: #36
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
Max 7 home games and any neutral site game must be over 300 miles away or within a 40/60 milage split of the opponent.

Minimum 5 home games vs FBS teams.

You can only count a 6th win vs a FBS for bowl eligibility once every 4 seasons.
10-09-2013 09:22 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #37
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 08:57 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 02:49 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I'll do so Wedge as top tier FBS schools have various reasons for their FBS schedules. In the writer's world, how does he plan to butterfly away the state mandated games that Clemson and SCAR must play against SC State and The Citadel? His position is strictly fan based and neglects that both FBS and FCS school benefit from the current arrangement. While's he was thoroughly entertained by that UGA/Clemson game, it really hasn't benefited the Dawgs. People still lament that UGA has played North Texas and will play GA Southern later this year.

If you play in a conference that is highly respected, there's no reason to try and schedule a difficult OOC. tOSU SOS is only marginally better than Louisville, but rest assured that they will get in ahead of a 1-loss SEC team, no matter how 'good' that loss is. Ultimately, the marginal ROI preclude schools from wanting to schedule the intersectional matchups. Maybe the CFP and networks can change that (ESPN was a big reason for such a great opening weekend to the CFB season), but I'm doubtful.


Those games aren't state mandated, it's just a practice both schools have adopten

Yep, if you are going to schedule a rent-a-kill you might as well keep that gate money in state.
10-09-2013 09:50 PM
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Post: #38
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 03:16 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  People have to put themselves in the shoes of a power 5 athletic director.

For most of them, having 7 home games per year is now non-negotiable. That's going to automatically cut down on the number of compelling non-conference games because every power conference schools needs 2 1-and-done guarantee games annually at a minimum. We can complain about the matchups, but that's just the financial reality.

At the same time, power conference teams don't really get much extra credit in the rankings for multiple tough non-conference games. If your goal is to compete for the national championship, then a "smart" non-conference schedule is to schedule 1 power conference opponent and then 2 or 3 cupcakes (depending on whether your conference has an 8 or 9-game conference schedule). Doing more than that might be appealing to the fans, but it really doesn't materially improve your chances of playing for the national championship. Now, you'll get punished in the rankings if you play *no one* of value in your non-conference schedule, but having 1 good-to-solid non-conference game has shown over and over again to be enough for rankings purposes.


How do you punish the athletic directors insisting on 7 or more home games a year??
10-09-2013 10:28 PM
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Post: #39
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 04:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 04:19 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The ONLY solution that will work is to mandate the number of home & away games.

There already is a rule -- FBS teams have to play at least 5 home games. That prevents a strapped-for-cash G5 program from playing a bodybag game for every single non-conference game. (Admittedly it means they can still play 3 if they have an 8-game conference schedule.)

If you're suggesting that teams not be allowed to play more than 6 home games, that won't happen. Even a limit of 7 has no chance of passing and would be meaningless if it did, because few teams play 8 home games -- Texas A&M is one of the only teams doing it this year -- and those that do have huge economic power and could get around the rule by playing 7 home games plus a neutral-site game if they really wanted to.

I agree - it WON'T happen - I'm just saying if you want to get rid of the "body bag" games, first you have to force teams to play equal numbers of home & away games. I just think people are barking up the wrong tree, so to speak.
10-10-2013 05:00 AM
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Post: #40
RE: "Non-conference scheduling in college football is broken."
(10-09-2013 03:13 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  The current system rewards 4 cupcake OOC victories but punishes 2-2 challenging OOC schedules.

If you want cupcakes to go away in lieu of better OOC opponents than you need to 1) not hurt a team's chances of making the playoff by undertaking a challenging OOC schedule and 2) reward such a schedule by making the SOS boost they would get from it count toward getting into the playoff.

this
10-10-2013 08:19 AM
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