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American Athletic conference expansion.
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SMUmustangs Offline
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Post: #21
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
If any one is added it shoud be NIU.

Forget BYU, I do not see anything in it for them and they would have to give up too much.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2013 11:10 AM by SMUmustangs.)
12-10-2013 11:09 AM
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westwolf Offline
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Post: #22
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
Any addition of current MAC schools will simply reinforce the AAC's image of mediocrity.
12-10-2013 11:48 AM
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Ned Low Offline
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Post: #23
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 09:04 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 06:51 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  I don't see that happening by 2016. Too many mouths to feed on a puny TV deal.

The current TV deal is up in 2019. You might see some movement around then.

The exception being if the American is raided. If the Big 10 takes UConn, we'll replace with UMass, etc.

As to Kittonheads point, the impetus for VCU to leave the A10 would be the raid of the A10 by the Big East.

I still don't like that move by VCU because even if they take St. Louis and Dayton its still going to be a very good geographic fit.

As to UMass.......people keep thinking they are going to get into the AAC on Football merit/market value but I think if they get in it will be on Basketball merit if anything. They go on a nice run of Top 20 basketball for 5 years and the AAC will be compelled to add them.

UMass has not gone on a nice top-20 run for a LONG time. They are not going to be doing it anytime soon, either.

I would hope that we are not considering adding them. Army, at least, brings something to the table....

Instead of UMass, you would be better served to venture west or add ODU in the east.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2013 02:24 PM by Ned Low.)
12-10-2013 12:03 PM
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GO Coogs GO!!! Offline
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Post: #24
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 11:02 AM)john01992 Wrote:  well mainly ==> academics. they rock the boat and promote a conference just as well as football does.

rice solidifies the texas market, gives more texas games (recruiting) to aac members.

Umass/buffalo thats more a move to weaken the mac and gives the aac at least a chunk of NY with a team in the two largest cities in that state (if army is already in).

Ehh on the academics in this context. Yes they are important in the real world but athletic conferences are the toy box of the collegiate world.

You won't see schools being added for their academic prowess at the expense of conference competitive strength.

Nothing stops schools from partnering on an academic level now so why would you "have" to add a school to be associated with schools like Rice?

Yes the presidents "consider" academics when they make athletic decisions but unless you are an open enrolment poor performing school it carries no weight in said decisions.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2013 12:23 PM by GO Coogs GO!!!.)
12-10-2013 12:21 PM
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GO Coogs GO!!! Offline
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Post: #25
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 11:48 AM)westwolf Wrote:  Any addition of current MAC schools will simply reinforce the AAC's image of mediocrity.

Ding ding!!! Something we can ill afford at this point.

04-rock
12-10-2013 12:22 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 12:21 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 11:02 AM)john01992 Wrote:  well mainly ==> academics. they rock the boat and promote a conference just as well as football does.

rice solidifies the texas market, gives more texas games (recruiting) to aac members.

Umass/buffalo thats more a move to weaken the mac and gives the aac at least a chunk of NY with a team in the two largest cities in that state (if army is already in).

Ehh on the academics in this context. Yes they are important in the real world but athletic conferences are the toy box of the collegiate world.

You won't see schools being added for their academic prowess at the expense of conference competitive strength.

Nothing stops schools from partnering on an academic level now so why would you "have" to add a school to be associated with schools like Rice?

Yes the presidents "consider" academics when they make athletic decisions but unless you are an open enrolment poor performing school it carries no weight in said decisions.

i think you are undervaluing academics. schools strive for strong associations.

while the academics is a nice part of rice's addition. I think the simple giving 8 more texas games for aac schools each year is the best part of the move.

and are we seriously......SERIOUSLY going to call adding a school that won it conference this year, had 10 wins, won a bowl last year as "at the expense of competitive strength."

yall got to give me a fu.cken break. I only push rice cuz they have great academics, a great recruiting area, & upswing football to complement you would think that if they won the Cusa the UH fans would finally give me a break on this issue.

but no.....

to you 10-3 rice is competitive dead weight but 2-10 usf, 2-10 temple, 3-9 memphis, 3-9 tulsa, & 3-9 uconn are not
03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead
12-10-2013 12:38 PM
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DBpirate Offline
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Post: #27
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 12:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 12:21 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 11:02 AM)john01992 Wrote:  well mainly ==> academics. they rock the boat and promote a conference just as well as football does.

rice solidifies the texas market, gives more texas games (recruiting) to aac members.

Umass/buffalo thats more a move to weaken the mac and gives the aac at least a chunk of NY with a team in the two largest cities in that state (if army is already in).

Ehh on the academics in this context. Yes they are important in the real world but athletic conferences are the toy box of the collegiate world.

You won't see schools being added for their academic prowess at the expense of conference competitive strength.

Nothing stops schools from partnering on an academic level now so why would you "have" to add a school to be associated with schools like Rice?

Yes the presidents "consider" academics when they make athletic decisions but unless you are an open enrolment poor performing school it carries no weight in said decisions.

i think you are undervaluing academics. schools strive for strong associations.

while the academics is a nice part of rice's addition. I think the simple giving 8 more texas games for aac schools each year is the best part of the move.

and are we seriously......SERIOUSLY going to call adding a school that won it conference this year, had 10 wins, won a bowl last year as "at the expense of competitive strength."

yall got to give me a fu.cken break. I only push rice cuz they have great academics, a great recruiting area, & upswing football to complement you would think that if they won the Cusa the UH fans would finally give me a break on this issue.

but no.....

to you 10-3 rice is competitive dead weight but 2-10 usf, 2-10 temple, 3-9 memphis, 3-9 tulsa, & 3-9 uconn are not
03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead

Seems like rice for the longest time had neglected their athletics outside of baseball until recently. Rice really seems to be improving in athletics and they already have great academics. Markets are important but you need to have schools that share similarities. Tulsa tulane smu and rice are all similar and I'd bet rice is working to join the aac. If they get an invite who knows but I think they would be a good fit.

When a school is worthy of an add and makes financial sense they will be added until then the aac will stay at 12.
12-10-2013 12:58 PM
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HuskieTap22 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 12:22 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 11:48 AM)westwolf Wrote:  Any addition of current MAC schools will simply reinforce the AAC's image of mediocrity.

Ding ding!!! Something we can ill afford at this point.

04-rock

So if two - four teams leave the AAC where do you go then? MWC teams won't return your calls. Rebuild CUSA 2.0? The Sun Belt? Reality is the MAC probably has 2 - 4 of the best candidates left on the board to help the AAC maintain any perceived edge.
12-10-2013 01:11 PM
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GO Coogs GO!!! Offline
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Post: #29
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 12:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 12:21 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 11:02 AM)john01992 Wrote:  well mainly ==> academics. they rock the boat and promote a conference just as well as football does.

rice solidifies the texas market, gives more texas games (recruiting) to aac members.

Umass/buffalo thats more a move to weaken the mac and gives the aac at least a chunk of NY with a team in the two largest cities in that state (if army is already in).

Ehh on the academics in this context. Yes they are important in the real world but athletic conferences are the toy box of the collegiate world.

You won't see schools being added for their academic prowess at the expense of conference competitive strength.

Nothing stops schools from partnering on an academic level now so why would you "have" to add a school to be associated with schools like Rice?

Yes the presidents "consider" academics when they make athletic decisions but unless you are an open enrolment poor performing school it carries no weight in said decisions.

i think you are undervaluing academics. schools strive for strong associations.

while the academics is a nice part of rice's addition. I think the simple giving 8 more texas games for aac schools each year is the best part of the move.

and are we seriously......SERIOUSLY going to call adding a school that won it conference this year, had 10 wins, won a bowl last year as "at the expense of competitive strength."

yall got to give me a fu.cken break. I only push rice cuz they have great academics, a great recruiting area, & upswing football to complement you would think that if they won the Cusa the UH fans would finally give me a break on this issue.

but no.....

to you 10-3 rice is competitive dead weight but 2-10 usf, 2-10 temple, 3-9 memphis, 3-9 tulsa, & 3-9 uconn are not
03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead

We are just going to agree to disagree on the academic thing. I'm not making this personal. Yes I do not like Rice but if the moved they needle I would swallow my pride and welcome them with open arms.

I am a realist and you are not. I (like you) would prefer to be in a competitive and academically respected regional conference but I know that is not the world we live in.

Before I break down Rice's success or lack thereof in the major sports let me point out that CUSA sucked something fierce this year. If watered down could be watered down that was what CUSA 2013 was. Let’s just go with since 1999 (15 years seems to be a fair sample set) and for full disclosure I will include UH's record in parenthesis each year.

Rice FB records:

1999: 5-6 (7-4)
2000: 3-8 (3-8)
2001: 8-4 (0-11)
2002: 4-7 (5-7)
2003: 5-7 (7-6)
2004: 3-8 (3-8)
2005: 1-10 (6-6)
2006: 7-6 (10-4)
2007: 3-9 (8-5)
2008: 10-3 (8-5)
2009: 2-10 (10-4)
2010: 4-8 (5-7)
2011: 4-8 (13-1)
2012: 7-6 (5-7)
2013: 10-3 (8-4)

76-103 42.5% (98-80 55.1%)

Rice Basketball (through 12/10/2013):

1999: 5-22 (9-22)
2000: 14-16 (9-20)
2001: 10-19 (18-15)
2002: 19-10 (8-20)
2003: 22-11 (9-18)
2004: 19-12 (18-14)
2005: 12-16 (21-10)
2006: 16-16 (18-15)
2007: 3-27 (24-10)
2008: 10-22 (21-12)
2009: 8-23 (19-16)
2010: 14-18 (12-18)
2011: 19-16 (15-15)
2012: 5-26 (20-13)
2013: 4-5 (7-4)

180-259 41.0% (228-222 50.7%)

Our basketball has been down but we are getting much better. We really stunk 1999-2003. We have our down yers in football but they are not the norm now.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2013 01:28 PM by GO Coogs GO!!!.)
12-10-2013 01:26 PM
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Ned Low Offline
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Post: #30
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
I don't see NIU maintaining their uber-winning ways for long. Losing Jordan Lynch will hurt them badly. Add to that a lack of fan interest and I am lead to believe that they would not be a good add. The same thing can be said for Ohio.

However, I would not jump off of a bridge if both of them were added. If we were going to add anyone from the MAC, those are the only two schools that I would want.

Still, I think that we would be better served to chip away at the MWC, if it can be done; the NCAA meetings in January will give us a better idea what is going to happen with expansion.
12-10-2013 02:31 PM
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Post: #31
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 01:26 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 12:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 12:21 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 11:02 AM)john01992 Wrote:  well mainly ==> academics. they rock the boat and promote a conference just as well as football does.

rice solidifies the texas market, gives more texas games (recruiting) to aac members.

Umass/buffalo thats more a move to weaken the mac and gives the aac at least a chunk of NY with a team in the two largest cities in that state (if army is already in).

Ehh on the academics in this context. Yes they are important in the real world but athletic conferences are the toy box of the collegiate world.

You won't see schools being added for their academic prowess at the expense of conference competitive strength.

Nothing stops schools from partnering on an academic level now so why would you "have" to add a school to be associated with schools like Rice?

Yes the presidents "consider" academics when they make athletic decisions but unless you are an open enrolment poor performing school it carries no weight in said decisions.

i think you are undervaluing academics. schools strive for strong associations.

while the academics is a nice part of rice's addition. I think the simple giving 8 more texas games for aac schools each year is the best part of the move.

and are we seriously......SERIOUSLY going to call adding a school that won it conference this year, had 10 wins, won a bowl last year as "at the expense of competitive strength."

yall got to give me a fu.cken break. I only push rice cuz they have great academics, a great recruiting area, & upswing football to complement you would think that if they won the Cusa the UH fans would finally give me a break on this issue.

but no.....

to you 10-3 rice is competitive dead weight but 2-10 usf, 2-10 temple, 3-9 memphis, 3-9 tulsa, & 3-9 uconn are not
03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead

We are just going to agree to disagree on the academic thing. I'm not making this personal. Yes I do not like Rice but if the moved they needle I would swallow my pride and welcome them with open arms.

I am a realist and you are not. I (like you) would prefer to be in a competitive and academically respected regional conference but I know that is not the world we live in.

Before I break down Rice's success or lack thereof in the major sports let me point out that CUSA sucked something fierce this year. If watered down could be watered down that was what CUSA 2013 was. Let’s just go with since 1999 (15 years seems to be a fair sample set) and for full disclosure I will include UH's record in parenthesis each year.

Rice FB records:

1999: 5-6 (7-4)
2000: 3-8 (3-8)
2001: 8-4 (0-11)
2002: 4-7 (5-7)
2003: 5-7 (7-6)
2004: 3-8 (3-8)
2005: 1-10 (6-6)
2006: 7-6 (10-4)
2007: 3-9 (8-5)
2008: 10-3 (8-5)
2009: 2-10 (10-4)
2010: 4-8 (5-7)
2011: 4-8 (13-1)
2012: 7-6 (5-7)
2013: 10-3 (8-4)

76-103 42.5% (98-80 55.1%)

Rice Basketball (through 12/10/2013):

1999: 5-22 (9-22)
2000: 14-16 (9-20)
2001: 10-19 (18-15)
2002: 19-10 (8-20)
2003: 22-11 (9-18)
2004: 19-12 (18-14)
2005: 12-16 (21-10)
2006: 16-16 (18-15)
2007: 3-27 (24-10)
2008: 10-22 (21-12)
2009: 8-23 (19-16)
2010: 14-18 (12-18)
2011: 19-16 (15-15)
2012: 5-26 (20-13)
2013: 4-5 (7-4)

180-259 41.0% (228-222 50.7%)

Our basketball has been down but we are getting much better. We really stunk 1999-2003. We have our down yers in football but they are not the norm now.

i will not mention the academic thing (i still think im correct on this)

but with rice its such an obvious move that id be surprised if it didnt happen. Their FB is improving which follows the trend of the other elte academia's (duke, northwestern, stanford, vandy) i dunno what it is but the elite academics across the board are really stepping up their game. Maybe its the new bowl format, maybe its the new football tv contracts forcing these schools to get their athletic a.ss in gear for the first time ever. but if we have learned anything in the last 5-7 years its to not bet against the nerds.

while their FB record is a legitimate point, its hard to say that they are significantly outclassed by schools like uconn, tulsa, memphis, & usf. and especially a often mentioned for expansion school named umass.

they have history, academics, geography and see tulane, UH, & smu as their peers. this is a no brainer if you ask me.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2013 02:43 PM by john01992.)
12-10-2013 02:42 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #32
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 05:22 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I know AAC fans like the idea of adding VCU to balance out the basketball membership but what is in it for VCU?

The basketball played in the American and A10 is roughly of equivalent grade right now and VCU would face an uptick in travel costs in the American.

I just can't see the AAC as a move VCU would favor when right now they have a nice conference situation with Davidson, Richmond, George Mason and George Washington. A nice set of schools that VCU likes to stack up to.

St. Louis would be a better idea for the AAC since they could put them in the West division with Memphis and Tulsa. That is something I could see them biting on because it may be a while before the Big East expands. Today's A10 geography doesn't work for SLU at all.

The quality of basketball is a big step up. The AAC is probably the #3 conference in basketball. Money would be slightly higher---exposure would be way way way higher. VCU would have every conference game on national TV. Plus, the A-10 is already weakened after the Big East raid---and it likely the Big East will strike at least once more in the next year or so. It would be a solid move for VCU to have games against UConn, Cinci, Temple, and Memphis.
12-10-2013 04:17 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #33
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 10:54 AM)Chappy Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 10:41 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 09:30 AM)john01992 Wrote:  IMO their best expansion candidates are

rice
buffalo
army
umass

otherwise im not seeing it.....

as much as people are a proponents of basketball schools like VCU, the reality is they simply dont add enough to the pot to warrant the pot being split one more way

What is your fascination with Rice?.......

I can live with UMass and Army for a few reasons but Buffalo? Rice? Yeah that won't fly.

You can get better options now why take them.

As for what would be best any list that does not include BYU is a joke. Yeah I doubt they come but you said "best expansion candidates"

We are both ESPN partners so it is possible even thought it is unlikely.

Well, the presidents who make these expansion decisions are very concerned with academic reputations, and Rice is a highly regarded school.

The fact that the AAC already has a school in Houston and already has a tiny school (Tulsa) are probably two strikes against the Owls. But I think Buffalo would be a very real possibility.


The problem with all these small privates is they make a conference very unattractive to bowls. Bowls don't care about academics. They care about large traveling fan bases. A big public school might some day develop that---most small privates never will.
12-10-2013 04:22 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 04:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 10:54 AM)Chappy Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 10:41 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 09:30 AM)john01992 Wrote:  IMO their best expansion candidates are

rice
buffalo
army
umass

otherwise im not seeing it.....

as much as people are a proponents of basketball schools like VCU, the reality is they simply dont add enough to the pot to warrant the pot being split one more way

What is your fascination with Rice?.......

I can live with UMass and Army for a few reasons but Buffalo? Rice? Yeah that won't fly.

You can get better options now why take them.

As for what would be best any list that does not include BYU is a joke. Yeah I doubt they come but you said "best expansion candidates"

We are both ESPN partners so it is possible even thought it is unlikely.

Well, the presidents who make these expansion decisions are very concerned with academic reputations, and Rice is a highly regarded school.

The fact that the AAC already has a school in Houston and already has a tiny school (Tulsa) are probably two strikes against the Owls. But I think Buffalo would be a very real possibility.


The problem with all these small privates is they make a conference very unattractive to bowls. Bowls don't care about academics. They care about large traveling fan bases. A big public school might some day develop that---most small privates never will.

yes & no. they have smaller sports fanbase's. but in terms of how many people who actually care, then can be quite large. rice in houston is screwed cuz theres so much competition there.

but BC & NW ==> when they are good, they are successful in viewership ratings.
12-10-2013 04:28 PM
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GO Coogs GO!!! Offline
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Post: #35
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 02:42 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i will not mention the academic thing (i still think im correct on this)

As do I....

(12-10-2013 02:42 PM)john01992 Wrote:  but with rice its such an obvious move that id be surprised if it didnt happen. Their FB is improving which follows the trend of the other elte academia's (duke, northwestern, stanford, vandy) i dunno what it is but the elite academics across the board are really stepping up their game.

Duke has been great this year but let’s see them sustain their success for a period of 10 years or more. The same can be said for Vandy they stunk then were good when Cutler was there then were avg. and now are good. Hardly a sustained level of success.

As for Rice they just won their first conference championship since Eisenhower was in office (1957) if they can have more than 5 winning seasons, and more than 3 seasons of 8 wins or more, in the last 15 years we can talk.

(12-10-2013 02:42 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Maybe its the new bowl format, maybe its the new football tv contracts forcing these schools to get their athletic a.ss in gear for the first time ever. but if we have learned anything in the last 5-7 years its to not bet against the nerds.

As for Stanford that is 100% correct. Duke and Vandy not so much. Rice has a long way to go before they are in the same conversation.

(12-10-2013 02:42 PM)john01992 Wrote:  while their FB record is a legitimate point, its hard to say that they are significantly outclassed by schools like uconn, tulsa, memphis, & usf. and especially a often mentioned for expansion school named umass.

That is a fair point but for UConn they were founding member of the conference at a time when the factors in play now were not in effect (TV). TV back then was handled in a completely different manner. Look no further than the fall of the SWC for all the proof you need on that point.

Tulsa was terrible this year but have proven they are a legit football team over the long haul.

Memphis was added for basketball mainly. They where invited when the Big East was still the Big East.

USF had a bad year but they have been solid member (granted not great) but solid member of the Big East.

As for UMass I can live with our without them. If you want to argue between them and Rice and I am forced to choose betwen the two I would pick UMass simply for the larger footprint. Rice doesn't bring anything (other than said academics) that UH does not bring already.

(12-10-2013 02:42 PM)john01992 Wrote:  they have history, academics, geography and see tulane, UH, & smu as their peers. this is a no brainer if you ask me.

They may see us a peers (athletically) but other than Tulane (can't speak for them) they are not our peers or SMU's. That is just my opinion sitting in their backyard and with a little knowledge of the situation down here.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2013 05:12 PM by GO Coogs GO!!!.)
12-10-2013 04:58 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #36
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 11:09 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  If any one is added it shoud be NIU.
But what about Huskies basketball?
12-10-2013 05:02 PM
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Post: #37
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
East
Cincinnati
Connecticut
East Carolina
South Florida
Temple
UCF

West
Houston
Memphis
Northern Illinois
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa

Non-football
VCU
Wichita State
12-10-2013 05:09 PM
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DBpirate Offline
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Post: #38
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
To those who don't think there isn't enough support for these private schools. Dukes alumni have pledged half a million dollars to pay for all the students who want to attend their bowl game.

I think private schools have not been successful because they haven't really put an emphasis on athletics like they do academics. You are starting to see that change and these schools are becoming more competitive in football. Look at tulane duke rice this year i think you will see this continue.
12-10-2013 05:13 PM
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UConn-SMU Offline
often wrong, never in doubt
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Post: #39
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
All of the private schools are improving their profile. BC was once a commuter school for Boston's Catholics. Northwestern, Duke, and Vanderbilt were jokes in FB for decades. All of them have come a long way.

That's why I have hope for SMU; it's the top school in the 4th largest (and fastest growing) metro area in the country. Talk about being in the right place at the right time ... SMU is positioned very well. Now they need to take advantage of that situation.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2013 05:24 PM by UConn-SMU.)
12-10-2013 05:23 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #40
RE: American Athletic conference expansion.
(12-10-2013 05:23 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  That's why I have hope for SMU; it's the top school in the 4th largest (and fastest growing) metro area in the country. Talk about being in the right place at the right time ... SMU is positioned very well. Now they need to take advantage of that situation.
It helps that TCU seems to have bumped against a brick wall in the Big <12.
12-10-2013 05:27 PM
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