(12-16-2013 10:28 AM)uccheese Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 03:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 03:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 01:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-10-2013 08:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Fixed it for you.

The A-10 is going to do just about as well as the AAC this year in basketball. I predict 5-6 bids for the A-10 this year. Oddly enough, the teams leaving the A-10 appear to be mostly (I guess UNCC is having a good year - but they're as inconsistent as always - they'll blow it like they always do) having down years (even before conference play starts). We're right there with the AAC in the ratings. We'll be fine.

GWU, UMass, Dayton, and VCU will see the top 25 this year. St Louis and Richmond are still relevant to the discussion. Its a great conference and, at least this year, every bit as good as it would have been had Temple, Butler, UNCC, and Xavier were still in it.

In fact, the A-10 is probably BETTER this year than it was with all those teams last year.

Two or 3 more of those teams will be gone next year when the Big East expands to at least 12. That's when I could see the math changing for A-10 members. That's when the AAC could move on a couple of A-10 basketball schools. Say the Big East takes St Louis and Dayton.

I could see the AAC picking up VCU and maybe one other. Looking at a league that has every game nationally televised and contains a lineup of UConn, Cinci, Memphis, Temple, VCU, and Richmond might look pretty good to VCU and Richmond.

Why would the AAC go to basketball onlies again? Its what split the conference last time.

So we do better in basketball? lol seems pretty straightforward what the motivation would be if they do it. Obviously, there are negatives as well.

I just don't see the AAC allowing basketball to drive the train again. None of the teams on the board are real show stoppers either (either Richmond/VCU gets you into Richmond, either GMU/GWU puts you back in DC) but lets be honest, none of those teams are Louisville or Memphis as far as basketball is concerned.. The real A-10 risk is from the Big East, not the AAC. I predict that Dayton and SLU will leave at some point for the Big East. But the A-10 has managed departures well up to this point and should be able to weather that storm. There's just too much quality in the A-10. Its too deep for a CAA situation to develop.

(12-16-2013 12:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 10:28 AM)uccheese Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 03:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 03:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 01:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The A-10 is going to do just about as well as the AAC this year in basketball. I predict 5-6 bids for the A-10 this year. Oddly enough, the teams leaving the A-10 appear to be mostly (I guess UNCC is having a good year - but they're as inconsistent as always - they'll blow it like they always do) having down years (even before conference play starts). We're right there with the AAC in the ratings. We'll be fine.

GWU, UMass, Dayton, and VCU will see the top 25 this year. St Louis and Richmond are still relevant to the discussion. Its a great conference and, at least this year, every bit as good as it would have been had Temple, Butler, UNCC, and Xavier were still in it.

In fact, the A-10 is probably BETTER this year than it was with all those teams last year.

Two or 3 more of those teams will be gone next year when the Big East expands to at least 12. That's when I could see the math changing for A-10 members. That's when the AAC could move on a couple of A-10 basketball schools. Say the Big East takes St Louis and Dayton.

I could see the AAC picking up VCU and maybe one other. Looking at a league that has every game nationally televised and contains a lineup of UConn, Cinci, Memphis, Temple, VCU, and Richmond might look pretty good to VCU and Richmond.

Why would the AAC go to basketball onlies again? Its what split the conference last time.

So we do better in basketball? lol seems pretty straightforward what the motivation would be if they do it. Obviously, there are negatives as well.

I just don't see the AAC allowing basketball to drive the train again. None of the teams on the board are real show stoppers either (either Richmond/VCU gets you into Richmond, either GMU/GWU puts you back in DC) but lets be honest, none of those teams are Louisville or Memphis as far as basketball is concerned.. The real A-10 risk is from the Big East, not the AAC. I predict that Dayton and SLU will leave at some point for the Big East. But the A-10 has managed departures well up to this point and should be able to weather that storm. There's just too much quality in the A-10. Its too deep for a CAA situation to develop.

I wouldn't define adding 2 basketball-only schools to the AAC as "allowing basketball to drive the bus". There would be 14 teams in such a league--only 2 of which would be basketball only. I don't see those 2 basketball only teams being able to drive an agenda. I think you would just have to excellent olympic-sports schools playing in a league of other Olympic-sports schools. Football really wouldn't affect them much--and if it did--they would leave--not the other way around.

If the AAC aspires to be considered in the same breath with the P5 conferences, they should avoid "basketball onlies" IMHO. You can be sure that none of the P5 would consider doing that beyond an accommodation for Notre Dame, which is a special case. There is no other school in the country that a P5 conference would consider such an arrangement for. So if the American wants to climb out of the G5, they should run from that type of move.

A top 25 UMass program would work well in the AAC. UMass-UConn and UMass-Temple are great rivalries. They just need to upgrade their football stadium

(12-16-2013 12:54 PM)esayem Wrote:  A top 25 UMass program would work well in the AAC. UMass-UConn and UMass-Temple are great rivalries. They just need to upgrade their football stadium

Consideration needs to be given to adding Louisiana. The Ragin Cajuns are in their 3rd bowl game in a row having beaten SDSU and East Carolina and this year plays Tulane. New success, but wouldn't you want up and coming teams rather ham schools that have a longer wining history but aren't winning today? You will see the fan base we have in the NO Bowl vs Tulane. We are breaking ground on $125m in facility upgrades. We just beat Houston in basketball and great basketball is now returning to UL. Baseball has been to the CWS and we will have a great team this year. Softball has been to the WCWS 6 times and is a perennial Top 20 team. We make a great travel partner for Houston and Tulane. Travel costs and competitive teams in sports other than football
need to be a consideration.

(12-16-2013 12:40 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  If the AAC aspires to be considered in the same breath with the P5 conferences, they should avoid "basketball onlies" IMHO. You can be sure that none of the P5 would consider doing that beyond an accommodation for Notre Dame, which is a special case. There is no other school in the country that a P5 conference would consider such an arrangement for. So if the American wants to climb out of the G5, they should run from that type of move.

The AAC is not a power conference, nor will it be in the near future. The AAC needs to become the best conference it can be NOW. By adding a couple of solid basketball programs, it can solidify its place as a basketball power conference. There is value in that. Power conferences accept associate members all the time if it suits their purposes. Boise is a member of the Pac-12 in wresting. Johns Hopkins is joining the Big-10 in mens Lacrosse. Its not that big a deal. The problem with the Big East was it was the hybrid was taken too far. It was a 50/50 split. A couple of basketball only members is completely different than a 50/50 power struggle between football and basketball.

As for football---over some period of time, its football may or may not develop to P-5 standards. The existence of 2 basketball schools in the conference wont determine if AAC football rises to power conference levels. That will be determined by the member football schools who actually play football. The 2 basketball schools and their 2 votes will not determine the path of the AAC, the future of AAC football, or the future paths of the individual member schools in general.

VCU going to the American would be a good move for the AAC in terms of basketball.

It would also probably send Saint Louis somewhere else too.

(12-16-2013 01:57 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 12:54 PM)esayem Wrote:  A top 25 UMass program would work well in the AAC. UMass-UConn and UMass-Temple are great rivalries. They just need to upgrade their football stadium

Consideration needs to be given to adding Louisiana. The Ragin Cajuns are in their 3rd bowl game in a row having beaten SDSU and East Carolina and this year plays Tulane. New success, but wouldn't you want up and coming teams rather ham schools that have a longer wining history but aren't winning today? You will see the fan base we have in the NO Bowl vs Tulane. We are breaking ground on $125m in facility upgrades. We just beat Houston in basketball and great basketball is now returning to UL. Baseball has been to the CWS and we will have a great team this year. Softball has been to the WCWS 6 times and is a perennial Top 20 team. We make a great travel partner for Houston and Tulane. Travel costs and competitive teams in sports other than football
need to be a consideration.

I think CUSA is more likely. ULaLa doesn't appear to match the schools that the AAC has looked at in the past--but who knows?

(12-16-2013 12:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 10:28 AM)uccheese Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 03:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 03:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 01:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The A-10 is going to do just about as well as the AAC this year in basketball. I predict 5-6 bids for the A-10 this year. Oddly enough, the teams leaving the A-10 appear to be mostly (I guess UNCC is having a good year - but they're as inconsistent as always - they'll blow it like they always do) having down years (even before conference play starts). We're right there with the AAC in the ratings. We'll be fine.

GWU, UMass, Dayton, and VCU will see the top 25 this year. St Louis and Richmond are still relevant to the discussion. Its a great conference and, at least this year, every bit as good as it would have been had Temple, Butler, UNCC, and Xavier were still in it.

In fact, the A-10 is probably BETTER this year than it was with all those teams last year.

Two or 3 more of those teams will be gone next year when the Big East expands to at least 12. That's when I could see the math changing for A-10 members. That's when the AAC could move on a couple of A-10 basketball schools. Say the Big East takes St Louis and Dayton.

I could see the AAC picking up VCU and maybe one other. Looking at a league that has every game nationally televised and contains a lineup of UConn, Cinci, Memphis, Temple, VCU, and Richmond might look pretty good to VCU and Richmond.

Why would the AAC go to basketball onlies again? Its what split the conference last time.

So we do better in basketball? lol seems pretty straightforward what the motivation would be if they do it. Obviously, there are negatives as well.

I just don't see the AAC allowing basketball to drive the train again. None of the teams on the board are real show stoppers either (either Richmond/VCU gets you into Richmond, either GMU/GWU puts you back in DC) but lets be honest, none of those teams are Louisville or Memphis as far as basketball is concerned.. The real A-10 risk is from the Big East, not the AAC. I predict that Dayton and SLU will leave at some point for the Big East. But the A-10 has managed departures well up to this point and should be able to weather that storm. There's just too much quality in the A-10. Its too deep for a CAA situation to develop.

I think football dictating everything is actually an argument FOR this being the way AAC eventually expands. I think they will eventually want expansion and their is no way they allow football to get any more watered down than it already is because that's priority 1, 2, and 3. The only schools they would consider are a top football team (which likely wouldn't be interested) or a school who doesn't play football at all.

I think if AAC expands it will be something like VCU and either STLouis or Witchita or something similar. Otherwise, they will just stand pat so they don't continue to hurt football by adding members. If your school plays football, you need someone to leave that plays football IMO.

(12-16-2013 02:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 01:57 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 12:54 PM)esayem Wrote:  A top 25 UMass program would work well in the AAC. UMass-UConn and UMass-Temple are great rivalries. They just need to upgrade their football stadium

Consideration needs to be given to adding Louisiana. The Ragin Cajuns are in their 3rd bowl game in a row having beaten SDSU and East Carolina and this year plays Tulane. New success, but wouldn't you want up and coming teams rather ham schools that have a longer wining history but aren't winning today? You will see the fan base we have in the NO Bowl vs Tulane. We are breaking ground on $125m in facility upgrades. We just beat Houston in basketball and great basketball is now returning to UL. Baseball has been to the CWS and we will have a great team this year. Softball has been to the WCWS 6 times and is a perennial Top 20 team. We make a great travel partner for Houston and Tulane. Travel costs and competitive teams in sports other than football
need to be a consideration.

I think CUSA is more likely. ULaLa doesn't appear to match the schools that the AAC has looked at in the past--but who knows?

Who knows indeed. We want/need out of the SunBelt. CUSA currently is no better, except in perception. The AAC is a better alternative, if it is going to grow. After this year, the AAC will no longer be a part of the P5. It needs to strengthen its position in all sports, particularly football, while building regional rivalries to help with attendance and travel costs, to make it the strongest non-P5 conference, because who knows how this will all turn out. Conference revenue may not be what it was in the past, so all of this becomes more relevant. Think of the cost to fly your volleyball team and other spring sports from Houston to UCONN as opposed to the I 10 corridor where Houston, Louisiana and Tulane reside. And, what about attendance? How many people will fly to all of their conference games, from Connecticut to Houston or Houston to USF? Check out the N. O. Bowl to see what we bring to the table. Granted its a bowl game vs. regular season, but you will see what a Tulane v. Louisiana rivalry can bring, not to mention Houston v. Louisiana. Our program is growing, FAST. While this certainly isn't decided on this board, I am merely presenting food for thought.

The AAC will have 11 teams with Navy still a question mark. There are 6 teams in the East and 5 in the West, depending on where Memphis wants to place itself. Assuming Navy does not join, adding 1 team in the West makes the most sense. Louisiana has history with Houston, Tulane, UCF, ECU, Cincinnati, Memphis and Tulsa. That would leave the AAC with the following:

East - UCONN, Cincinnati, Temple, ECU, UCF, USF
West - Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Memphis, ? (Louisiana)

(12-16-2013 05:34 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 02:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 01:57 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 12:54 PM)esayem Wrote:  A top 25 UMass program would work well in the AAC. UMass-UConn and UMass-Temple are great rivalries. They just need to upgrade their football stadium

Consideration needs to be given to adding Louisiana. The Ragin Cajuns are in their 3rd bowl game in a row having beaten SDSU and East Carolina and this year plays Tulane. New success, but wouldn't you want up and coming teams rather ham schools that have a longer wining history but aren't winning today? You will see the fan base we have in the NO Bowl vs Tulane. We are breaking ground on $125m in facility upgrades. We just beat Houston in basketball and great basketball is now returning to UL. Baseball has been to the CWS and we will have a great team this year. Softball has been to the WCWS 6 times and is a perennial Top 20 team. We make a great travel partner for Houston and Tulane. Travel costs and competitive teams in sports other than football
need to be a consideration.

I think CUSA is more likely. ULaLa doesn't appear to match the schools that the AAC has looked at in the past--but who knows?

Who knows indeed. We want/need out of the SunBelt. CUSA currently is no better, except in perception. The AAC is a better alternative, if it is going to grow. After this year, the AAC will no longer be a part of the P5. It needs to strengthen its position in all sports, particularly football, while building regional rivalries to help with attendance and travel costs, to make it the strongest non-P5 conference, because who knows how this will all turn out. Conference revenue may not be what it was in the past, so all of this becomes more relevant. Think of the cost to fly your volleyball team and other spring sports from Houston to UCONN as opposed to the I 10 corridor where Houston, Louisiana and Tulane reside. And, what about attendance? How many people will fly to all of their conference games, from Connecticut to Houston or Houston to USF? Check out the N. O. Bowl to see what we bring to the table. Granted its a bowl game vs. regular season, but you will see what a Tulane v. Louisiana rivalry can bring, not to mention Houston v. Louisiana. Our program is growing, FAST. While this certainly isn't decided on this board, I am merely presenting food for thought.

The AAC will have 11 teams with Navy still a question mark. There are 6 teams in the East and 5 in the West, depending on where Memphis wants to place itself. Assuming Navy does not join, adding 1 team in the West makes the most sense. Louisiana has history with Houston, Tulane, UCF, ECU, Cincinnati, Memphis and Tulsa. That would leave the AAC with the following:

East - UCONN, Cincinnati, Temple, ECU, UCF, USF
West - Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, Memphis, ? (Louisiana)

Just curious, when did Navy become a question mark?

(12-16-2013 10:55 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 03:42 PM)DBpirate Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 03:11 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  If AAC expanded, TV contract would be adjusted.
adding schools would cut down on travel, help with BB tourns N bowl games.
VCU would bring in revenue with BB credits
Buffalo, getting back in NY is impairtive for conf.
UTEP, AAC almost has to cut off MWC from moving eastward

-You don't want UTEP they are on the very edge of west texas and they are some garbage.
-If we still had the Big East name we would need to get back in NY. The AAC doesn't have to be in NY. However if their athletics continue to get better I would have no problem with the add.

That's a pretty ignorant remark but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I don't think UTEP will be asked to join the AAC anytime soon but they could do a lot worse. El Paso is still a smallish market but has improved to 91st from 98th in recent years and still growing. Division 1 football prospects have been few in the past but that is also growing with a good number of players being recruited now by division 1 coaches. UTEP itself has a good athletic department, good basketball for sure with good fanbase. Football certainly needs to improve but even with a 2 win season with a 1st year head coach, UTEP averaged over 28k and has proven that with a decent team they can avg well over 40k. But UTEP is probably where they need to be right now and would be a good candidate for either the MWC should they need a school and the AAC if they ever decide to expand.

EP recruiting

Rereading my comment I would like to apologize to the Utep fans "garbage" isn't a term that describes your program. Your fb program has been struggling and basketball has been pretty consistent but I think it should be doing better than it has been.

My comment was more pointing towards their fit in the aac. Being in the western part of Texas and in a smaller market dosent really fit with the other western schools/Texas schools in the aac. I think they fit better and would be a much better add for the mw if they were looking for schools in Texas to add.

Right now there really isn't one team that stands out above the rest so there are a ton of possible expansion candidates but no worthy additions right now.

That said what if they had an agreement similar to nd/acc with umass. Bring them in as an Olympic sports member only but have x amount of games against aac schools in football. This is a good addition for bball while giving them games to put on their fb schedule. While their football grows builds rivalries with aac members and improves there on the field play and could later be added for football once they are ready and bring something to the conference for football.

Honestly, as has been stated earlier--I think people probably need to see how the NCAA meetings shake out in regard to the future of D1 and FBS. If the P5 break away, and no G5 leagues or schools are included, I think the AAC is a dead league. CUSA as we currently know it would be dead as well.

(12-16-2013 06:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Honestly, as has been stated earlier--I think people probably need to see how the NCAA meetings shake out in regard to the future of D1 and FBS. If the P5 break away, and no G5 leagues or schools are included, I think the AAC is a dead league. CUSA as we currently know it would be dead as well.

Why do you say that?

(12-16-2013 07:00 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 06:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Honestly, as has been stated earlier--I think people probably need to see how the NCAA meetings shake out in regard to the future of D1 and FBS. If the P5 break away, and no G5 leagues or schools are included, I think the AAC is a dead league. CUSA as we currently know it would be dead as well.

Why do you say that?

Because in a split, all G5 leagues become virtually worthless to TV and become far less compelling to fans. This would result in serious drops in attendance (probably to FCS levels), a collapse in the athletic donor base, and the loss of most all significant media income. Essentially, the G5 would become the new FCS and would be as unsuccessful and as ignored as FCS currently is. Large spread-out leagues would make no sense when there is no media money to offset higher travel costs. Faced with collapsing income and high costs, a number of programs would actually return to FCS and some might fold completely. Most G5 schools would only have 5 home games in order to take 1-and-done body bag games to balance the budget.


With such limited resources and no means to generate more income, G5 schools would be forced to ruthlessly work the other side of the equation to balance athletic budgets. They would have to cut costs to the bone. That means the G5 football programs that survive would need to reorganize into small regional bus leagues and carry on in relative obscurity. Large cross country conferences like the AAC and CUSA would cease to make sense.
I suspect the MAC and MW survive intact. The AAC, Sunbelt, and CUSA schools that survive would reorganize into smaller conferences that were arranged along regional lines that cut travel costs as much as possible. In order to keep the regionals tight and travel short and cheap---there would be more conferences with smaller membership---probably rarely more than 8 or 9 schools per conference.

This grim future is why I don think there will be a split. The G5 will give the P5 whatever they want. The G5 pretty much has no choice.

(12-16-2013 02:06 PM)LouPower Wrote:  VCU going to the American would be a good move for the AAC in terms of basketball.

It would also probably send Saint Louis somewhere else too.

I wouldn't mind adding Umass, Army, VCU and St. Louis.

(12-16-2013 07:26 PM)3drain Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 02:06 PM)LouPower Wrote:  VCU going to the American would be a good move for the AAC in terms of basketball.

It would also probably send Saint Louis somewhere else too.

I wouldn't mind adding Umass, Army, VCU and St. Louis.

To me, St. Louis seems like a slam dunk for the Big East if/when they expand.

(12-16-2013 07:56 PM)mnjayhawk Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 07:26 PM)3drain Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 02:06 PM)LouPower Wrote:  VCU going to the American would be a good move for the AAC in terms of basketball.

It would also probably send Saint Louis somewhere else too.

I wouldn't mind adding Umass, Army, VCU and St. Louis.

To me, St. Louis seems like a slam dunk for the Big East if/when they expand.

From everything I've read St. Louis is a slam dunk, but the BE schools can't agree on 12. Which makes perfect sense with the A10 adds of GMU and Davidson, not trying to build a bridge to St. Louis.

(12-16-2013 08:04 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  From everything I've read St. Louis is a slam dunk, but the BE schools can't agree on 12. Which makes perfect sense with the A10 adds of GMU and Davidson, not trying to build a bridge to St. Louis.

Yes, there's too much risk of it being a bridge to nowhere.