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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 11:10 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 10:50 AM)backrow Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 09:35 AM)Quagmire Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 12:41 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  We have top 60-70 facilities in the entire country between the ted and the soon to be built practice center.


We also have one of the top 10 richest recruiting areas in the country in our own back yard. Our inability to recruit big time players boils down to two things......

1. Our fanbase's acceptance of mediocrity from our coaching staff on the recruiting front (let's face it, Blaine didn't recruit for sh.t. He got extremely lucky with two overseas recruits (lee and loughton) and two more shots in the dark on projects that became caa first teamers in baze and hassell.

He was recruiting well below a program of our stature and potential for a very long time he just got lucky with overseas and dark horse recruits. Eventually that luck ran out and now we are where we are.

2. We hired a guy who went 11-20 and might have been a year away from getting fired from American to take over the job from a drunk who was left on the job way too long and no one thinks wood deserves to lose his job over this? You wonder why we haven't landed a single recruit for next year? Because jones has zero name recognition with anyone who is under 40. He hasn't been relevant since the mid 90's......and yet we were expecting him to come in and start recruiting better than Blaine? Seriously?

We have ever bit the potential vcu does. We have a bigger fanbase, a better stadium, a better recruiting area, football, endowed scholarships etc etc etc.

What we don't have is the most important thing of all......a coach young players can relate too. We brought in another old white guy with a questionable past. Gee, I'm soooooooooooooooii shocked we haven't landed a single big recruit yet! Knock me down with a feather.

I'm so sick of the same set of fans trying to talk themselves into jones and accepting mediocrity.

Say what you will about vcu and their unkempt fans, their administration has it exactly right. They replaced capel with a young dynamic coach who brought in even better recruits. They replaced him with an even younger, more dynamic coach who is now competing with acc teams for recruits.

We decided to replace our old alky coach with an old, uninteresting coach who went 11-20 at American. How are you people not getting that we have screwed ourselves by accepting mediocrity yet again and the main person culpable for all of this is one wood selig?

He hired his UVA buddy to save some money and sunk the program for the next 5 years at least. He's not going to recapture his glory years at UVA here at odu......his ceiling is getting us back to .500 with 5 years. That's his ceiling.

We need a young, dynamic coach who can relate to the youth of today. Jones is the exact opposite of what this program needed. We needed a spark of life, a bright shinning beacon to say "come here, come to odu, we are going to do big things"... a Shaka or brad Stevens type if you will. Instead we got a guy who's been in the patriot league for a decade and couldn't get a single better job than American during that time.

I blame wood but I also blame you, the fanbase, for yet again accepting mediocrity. Hell some of you idiots were still praising Blaine and "what he did for us" even after he drug is into the toilet.

I'll simply never understand this complete lack of ambition from the same old posters.

Agree with much if this.

I think what will ultimately drive real change is when the mens bball revenue tanks. Judging by the looks on the faces I see at the Ted, that day may not be far off. I don't know that the balance sheet looks like but I cant imagine the program will operate in the black this year and will most certainly bottom out next year...mo matter how cheap Jones salary might be.

I agree with most of RR, and with Quagmire!

So what do we do? Do we stop buying tickets and making contributions to ODAF? That certainly won't make us any better but it might at least get their attention. Or do we continue to purchase tickets and contribute? But if we do that won't the administration think that we are satisfied? I can tell you firsthand that expressing dissatisfaction verbally and in writing has absolutely no effect. We are in a real bad situation and I wish I had a clue as to the best way to get out of it.

This is spot on. Maybe one step is in targeting our dissatisfaction toward Wood, the man who let BT trash the program, cut the budget, hired JJ, and so on. As it stands right now he seems to manage to stay above the fray when most of the conversations arise. He is culpable for everything that is going on right now, including BT's destruction of the program, and should be held accountable for it.
01-02-2014 12:35 PM
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84Monarch Offline
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Post: #22
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
Ever, you hit the nail exactly on the head. The Blue Barons of the world are not the ones who can effect change on the program.
While Razor made some excellent points, I think there are those of us who are trying to see the glass half full because half empty just tastes bad and raging about it does not do anyone any good. I am willing to give Jones his shot, because I have little chance of impacting his length of stay in ODU blue. Am I going to continue to purchase tickets and go to the games? Yes. Does that mean I am settling for mediocrity, maybe for some the answer is yes, but I don't see it that way. My allegiance is to Old Dominion University and I support the athletic teams they put on the field. Period. Do I hope and pray we get better players and get back the NCAA in order to make s splash - ABSOLUTELY. But until then I am going to support the coaches and players we have because like them or not they represent ODU.

As for keeping top players at home. My tenure as a fan goes back to being a kid watching Wilson Washington and Dave Twardzik play, so I have seen my fair share of ODU games and players. Honestly, it is wasted energy to rail about keeping the top recruits at home. Kids like McAdoo, Finney-Smith are going to the ACC schools if they come calling. The ACC is viewed as the cream of the crop, the standard by which college basketball is measured. Why wouldn't a kid want to take a shot against the best. I am pretty sure not all of Richmond's best players are going to VCU. I would bet quite a bit of money that if NC State or MIAMI came and put the recruiting blast on a kid along side VCU, that kid would probably go to the ACC. Bigger stages, pretty much guaranteed NCAA or post season appearances, a chance to play against pros in the off season. I could go on. But beyond that going away to college and getting away from home is attractive to most kids. How is the local school going to compete against that sentiment?

Am I niave maybe, but I am a Monarch and will support whoever is hired because they represent my university. Will I voice my displeasure to the appropriate officials, yes and I have, but at the end of the day I will support them because they came into the Monarch family. I will also give the coaches time to get the job done or prove they cannot do it with the resources we have to offer. In my opinion the jury is still out regarding Jeff Jones.
01-02-2014 01:49 PM
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TheDancinMonarch Offline
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Post: #23
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 01:49 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  Am I going to continue to purchase tickets and go to the games? Yes. Does that mean I am settling for mediocrity, maybe for some the answer is yes, but I don't see it that way. My allegiance is to Old Dominion University and I support the athletic teams they put on the field. Period.

Am I niave maybe, but I am a Monarch and will support whoever is hired because they represent my university. Will I voice my displeasure to the appropriate officials, yes and I have, but at the end of the day I will support them because they came into the Monarch family. I will also give the coaches time to get the job done or prove they cannot do it with the resources we have to offer. In my opinion the jury is still out regarding Jeff Jones.

And aren't the powers that be using these, what would otherwise be called positive, feelings against you? For all of the right reasons you are doing what may be the wrong thing and that is the acceptance of mediocrity. Because today there is no cloud of smoke on the horizon to indicate that a troop of cavalry is on the way to save us.

As I said earlier, I don't know what the answer is but I am slowly coming to the conclusion that throwing more good money after bad may not be the thing to do.

And as to Jeff Jones, whose hiring I did not support, he is but a bit player in this extremely tragic play who may well be killed off before the third act but the overall problems will remain.
01-02-2014 02:07 PM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #24
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
In all honesty, I think a letter writing campaign to the pilot.....by multiple posters, railing against wood and the process that lead us to this point and calling for Broderick to give us tangible change, is a good place to start.
01-02-2014 02:13 PM
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monarchoptimist Offline
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Post: #25
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 02:07 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  And as to Jeff Jones, whose hiring I did not support, he is but a bit player in this extremely tragic play who may well be killed off before the third act but the overall problems will remain.

+1, well said.
01-02-2014 02:14 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #26
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
The people who I would say accept mediocrity are not those who realize that there is a problem, but continue to go to the games and cheer for the team. Hell, I am one of those. Those who accept mediocrity are the ones who continually make excuses as to why the program is where is it is. The people who say things like, "our program just isn't that good", and "we need to give the coach 5 years because he needs time to create relationships", or best of all, those who say "we may suck, but we have already won more games than last year." Those are the people who are accepting mediocrity. They are probably also the same people that are lining up to kiss the collective asses of JJ and Wood to tell the how much they love being invited to functions where they interact with them so that they can tell them how lucky we are to have such wonderful stewards for this crappy little insignificant university that happens to be located in one of the worst slums that The United States has to offer.
01-02-2014 02:16 PM
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Post: #27
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
Jones is doing the best that he can. He is a nice guy, but just doesn't have "it". He seems to be a good basketball mind and I would endorse moving him to a top assistant position, but he just isn't going to win recruiting battles and we'll never be good under Jones unless we luck out with a Baze, Hassell, Loughton, or Lee under the radar. This is all on Wood. Since there is still no contract, Wood can still right the ship by moving Jones to an assistant and hire a head coach that can get it done.
01-02-2014 02:17 PM
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Post: #28
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 01:49 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  Ever, you hit the nail exactly on the head. The Blue Barons of the world are not the ones who can effect change on the program.
While Razor made some excellent points, I think there are those of us who are trying to see the glass half full because half empty just tastes bad and raging about it does not do anyone any good. I am willing to give Jones his shot, because I have little chance of impacting his length of stay in ODU blue. Am I going to continue to purchase tickets and go to the games? Yes. Does that mean I am settling for mediocrity, maybe for some the answer is yes, but I don't see it that way. My allegiance is to Old Dominion University and I support the athletic teams they put on the field. Period. Do I hope and pray we get better players and get back the NCAA in order to make s splash - ABSOLUTELY. But until then I am going to support the coaches and players we have because like them or not they represent ODU.

As for keeping top players at home. My tenure as a fan goes back to being a kid watching Wilson Washington and Dave Twardzik play, so I have seen my fair share of ODU games and players. Honestly, it is wasted energy to rail about keeping the top recruits at home. Kids like McAdoo, Finney-Smith are going to the ACC schools if they come calling. The ACC is viewed as the cream of the crop, the standard by which college basketball is measured. Why wouldn't a kid want to take a shot against the best. I am pretty sure not all of Richmond's best players are going to VCU. I would bet quite a bit of money that if NC State or MIAMI came and put the recruiting blast on a kid along side VCU, that kid would probably go to the ACC. Bigger stages, pretty much guaranteed NCAA or post season appearances, a chance to play against pros in the off season. I could go on. But beyond that going away to college and getting away from home is attractive to most kids. How is the local school going to compete against that sentiment?

Am I niave maybe, but I am a Monarch and will support whoever is hired because they represent my university. Will I voice my displeasure to the appropriate officials, yes and I have, but at the end of the day I will support them because they came into the Monarch family. I will also give the coaches time to get the job done or prove they cannot do it with the resources we have to offer. In my opinion the jury is still out regarding Jeff Jones.

Probably the most well written post I've seen in a while. +1
01-02-2014 02:19 PM
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Post: #29
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 02:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  The people who I would say accept mediocrity are not those who realize that there is a problem, but continue to go to the games and cheer for the team. Hell, I am one of those. Those who accept mediocrity are the ones who continually make excuses as to why the program is where is it is. The people who say things like, "our program just isn't that good", and "we need to give the coach 5 years because he needs time to create relationships", or best of all, those who say "we may suck, but we have already won more games than last year." Those are the people who are accepting mediocrity. They are probably also the same people that are lining up to kiss the collective asses of JJ and Wood to tell the how much they love being invited to functions where they interact with them so that they can tell them how lucky we are to have such wonderful stewards for this crappy little insignificant university that happens to be located in one of the worst slums that The United States has to offer.

so what you're saying is that we all made a big mistake by attending ODU in the first place?
01-02-2014 02:29 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #30
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 02:29 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 02:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  The people who I would say accept mediocrity are not those who realize that there is a problem, but continue to go to the games and cheer for the team. Hell, I am one of those. Those who accept mediocrity are the ones who continually make excuses as to why the program is where is it is. The people who say things like, "our program just isn't that good", and "we need to give the coach 5 years because he needs time to create relationships", or best of all, those who say "we may suck, but we have already won more games than last year." Those are the people who are accepting mediocrity. They are probably also the same people that are lining up to kiss the collective asses of JJ and Wood to tell the how much they love being invited to functions where they interact with them so that they can tell them how lucky we are to have such wonderful stewards for this crappy little insignificant university that happens to be located in one of the worst slums that The United States has to offer.

so what you're saying is that we all made a big mistake by attending ODU in the first place?

My interpretation was "Have some pride." I spent the last 2 weeks in Pittsburgh. I wish our fans were more like them. They never make excuses and demand accountability.
01-02-2014 02:33 PM
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Post: #31
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 02:17 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Jones is doing the best that he can. He is a nice guy, but just doesn't have "it". He seems to be a good basketball mind and I would endorse moving him to a top assistant position, but he just isn't going to win recruiting battles and we'll never be good under Jones unless we luck out with a Baze, Hassell, Loughton, or Lee under the radar. This is all on Wood. Since there is still no contract, Wood can still right the ship by moving Jones to an assistant and hire a head coach that can get it done.

Hows this for a conspiracy theory? There is still no contract that we know of for Jones and Wood and Jones are good buddies... so perhaps Wood knew he couldnt get a good coach last year after the FGCU guy bailed at the last minute so he brought in his buddy for a one year stint. Its a silent agreement to try to bring some stability while Wood finds the next "real" head coach. Isnt Jones' wife still in DC? He may likely have sensed he would be shown the door at American anyway so he has nothing to lose by taking the gig here. Seems odd that theres no contract yet, and with every loss his value drops. I know its crazy talk, but weirder things have happened. If we have single digit wins and no recruits at the end of this season it would be mighty hard to justify a big time contract for multiple years.
01-02-2014 02:35 PM
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Post: #32
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 02:29 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 02:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  The people who I would say accept mediocrity are not those who realize that there is a problem, but continue to go to the games and cheer for the team. Hell, I am one of those. Those who accept mediocrity are the ones who continually make excuses as to why the program is where is it is. The people who say things like, "our program just isn't that good", and "we need to give the coach 5 years because he needs time to create relationships", or best of all, those who say "we may suck, but we have already won more games than last year." Those are the people who are accepting mediocrity. They are probably also the same people that are lining up to kiss the collective asses of JJ and Wood to tell the how much they love being invited to functions where they interact with them so that they can tell them how lucky we are to have such wonderful stewards for this crappy little insignificant university that happens to be located in one of the worst slums that The United States has to offer.

so what you're saying is that we all made a big mistake by attending ODU in the first place?

Someone obviously missed the anger management class at our crappy little insignificant university.
01-02-2014 02:35 PM
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Post: #33
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 02:32 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 12:35 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  This is spot on. Maybe one step is in targeting our dissatisfaction toward Wood, the man who let BT trash the program, cut the budget, hired JJ, and so on. As it stands right now he seems to manage to stay above the fray when most of the conversations arise. He is culpable for everything that is going on right now, including BT's destruction of the program, and should be held accountable for it.

Do you know, with certainty, that the budget has been cut?

Also, at what point, exactly, would you have fired BT for "trashing the program?" I don't believe Wood was naive to the fact that Blaine and Company were failing on the recruiting trail, but I also don't know how much sooner they could have pulled the trigger on letting Blaine go.

As for hiring Jones, those results remain to be seen. It's a bit early, at this point to decide whether or not it was the right call.

what he's saying is that the budget was cut b/c we're paying Jones less than what we were paying BT. so instead of going after a $1M coach, we went after a $400K coach (or whatever he's making). so we cut the budget by more than 50%. at least thats what I think he means.
01-02-2014 02:36 PM
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Post: #34
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 02:32 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 12:35 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  This is spot on. Maybe one step is in targeting our dissatisfaction toward Wood, the man who let BT trash the program, cut the budget, hired JJ, and so on. As it stands right now he seems to manage to stay above the fray when most of the conversations arise. He is culpable for everything that is going on right now, including BT's destruction of the program, and should be held accountable for it.

Do you know, with certainty, that the budget has been cut?

Also, at what point, exactly, would you have fired BT for "trashing the program?" I don't believe Wood was naive to the fact that Blaine and Company were failing on the recruiting trail, but I also don't know how much sooner they could have pulled the trigger on letting Blaine go.

As for hiring Jones, those results remain to be seen. It's a bit early, at this point to decide whether or not it was the right call.

Exactly the kind of post he was talking about with the excuses and the benefit of doubt question. Benefit of doubt has run its course. Unless someone can prove otherwise, the budget has been cut.
01-02-2014 02:37 PM
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Quagmire Offline
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Post: #35
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
I support football because I feel like my hard earned dollar is appreciated and I am rewarded by a fun entertaining product. I think that is the unspoken deal we make with the university with these donations.

The men's basketball program is clearly just going through the motions. This includes on (Wins/losses/style)and off (dreadful atmosphere/ticketing/media) the court and therefore they are not owning up to this "unspoken" deal.

In the end, someone of great $$ influence is going to have to walk straight up to Broderick say "I've had enough".
01-02-2014 02:42 PM
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84Monarch Offline
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Post: #36
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
Dancin, that is it I don't see it as throwing good money after bad. I Love ODU sports, and they provide entertainment for me and my family. Is it better when we win, heck yea, but it is still entertainment even when the play is not where I would like to see it. In return for that entertainment I purchase tickets and contribute to the Big Blue club. How will things get better without resources and how do we get better results from our resources. That is the hamster wheel we currently find ourselves on. The way I see it is that there is no silver bullet or magic cure. We are where we are and must keep fighting to get out of this abyss.

Bear this in mind fellow posters, the men on the court feel worse after each loss than we do because they truly experience it.
01-02-2014 02:46 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #37
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 02:32 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 12:35 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  This is spot on. Maybe one step is in targeting our dissatisfaction toward Wood, the man who let BT trash the program, cut the budget, hired JJ, and so on. As it stands right now he seems to manage to stay above the fray when most of the conversations arise. He is culpable for everything that is going on right now, including BT's destruction of the program, and should be held accountable for it.

Do you know, with certainty, that the budget has been cut?

Also, at what point, exactly, would you have fired BT for "trashing the program?" I don't believe Wood was naive to the fact that Blaine and Company were failing on the recruiting trail, but I also don't know how much sooner they could have pulled the trigger on letting Blaine go.

As for hiring Jones, those results remain to be seen. It's a bit early, at this point to decide whether or not it was the right call.

I would have fired BT at the point when it became obvious that he and his staff were no longer doing their jobs, and that his drinking was beyond control. As a competent manager, I would have known these issues were on the horizon well before the program sunk to the dire depths that it is currently at. There is no way that those inside the AD did not see this disaster coming before last year, and if they didn't, then shame on them.

As for those of you who are accusing me of trashing the university, I guess it was not obvious that I was using sarcasm to frame arguments that other posters have used for our program being terrible right now.
01-02-2014 02:47 PM
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Post: #38
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 02:42 PM)Quagmire Wrote:  I support football because I feel like my hard earned dollar is appreciated and I am rewarded by a fun entertaining product. I think that is the unspoken deal we make with the university with these donations.

The men's basketball program is clearly just going through the motions. This includes on (Wins/losses/style)and off (dreadful atmosphere/ticketing/media) the court and therefore they are not owning up to this "unspoken" deal.

In the end, someone of great $$ influence is going to have to walk straight up to Broderick say "I've had enough".

Well football is likely to tank after next season after Heinicke graduates. Defense isn't getting any better and we already see holes opening in Wilder's offensive system at the FBS level with our recruits. That just might be the first domino to the collapse of Wood's empire.
01-02-2014 02:48 PM
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ODUDon Offline
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Post: #39
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 02:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  They are probably also the same people that are lining up to kiss the collective asses of JJ and Wood to tell the how much they love being invited to functions where they interact with them so that they can tell them how lucky we are to have such wonderful stewards for this crappy little insignificant university that happens to be located in one of the worst slums that The United States has to offer.

Get out much? What a completely uninformed comment.
01-02-2014 02:52 PM
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MONARCHSWIN Offline
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Post: #40
RE: 2014 Basketball Recruits
(01-02-2014 02:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  ... this crappy little insignificant university that happens to be located in one of the worst slums that The United States has to offer.
Do us a favor and go away with that BS! 01-lauramac2
01-02-2014 02:52 PM
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