So UConn is not happy in the AAC? Why is that? I thought the AAC was one big happy family with all their football programs together...

(04-08-2014 03:34 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 03:20 PM)Hilltop 75 Wrote:  If I am a AAC school I dont allow uconn to affiliate their non- football sports with the big east and leave just football in the AAC.

The "theory" goes from the Delaware message board and some chatter with UMass fans is this:

UConn, UMass, UC, Temple, Delaware, Buffalo, Navy, Army, Charlotte, and a couple others form a new FBS football-only conference (Atlantic 10 Football, or Big East 10, or Yankee Conference FBS or some name) and then "affiliate" their basketball and all there other sports with the Big East and Atlantic 10.

UConn, Cincinnati - Big East
UMass, Temple, Buffalo, Delaware, Charlotte - Atlantic 10
Navy, Army - Patriot

Not sure how the new CFP contract plays into it or if they need some sort of NCAA waiver and if they could get bowl-ties and such, but this is what is being worked on.

The rest of the AAC would form a new South West conference and the G5 would go into hyper-drive re-organization between the AAC, CUSA, Sun Belt, etc.... some CUSA teams would go to the MWC, some would form new Southwest conference, some east coast AAC (ECU), CUSA, Sun Belt maybe a MAC team would form a new South East conference, etc..

Not sure if it can get off the ground though. It would make a mess of the entire G5 part of FBS and let more FCS teams in.

This may be what Forbes is referring to in the article with "affiliation" and new geography based conferences.

In this scenario the TV partner would have to be NBC Sports and NBC Regional (Comcast) who already cover the area and need college sports content. They bid on a HUGE AAC TV package and missed out, so they want the content just got outbid and are sitting needing some.

Hmmmm.... very, very, very intriguing option, but not plausible by any stretch. I mean that is worse then MAC football right there, hell Sunbelt football for that matter.

(04-08-2014 06:09 PM)ivet Wrote:  So UConn is not happy in the AAC? Why is that? I thought the AAC was one big happy family with all their football programs together...

The breakup/split of the Big East was not the football schools idea. The C7 cabal hatched that one in secret meetings. The C7 got what they wanted, but considering the situation in late 2012/early 2013---things have turned out better than most UConn fans probably expected.

I'm not happy about the $ part of the TV contract, but I'm more than happy with the conference competition and exposure. UCONN isn't in a P5 conference, but the AAC is the next best thing and far above any other conference IMO.

(04-08-2014 03:34 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 03:20 PM)Hilltop 75 Wrote:  If I am a AAC school I dont allow uconn to affiliate their non- football sports with the big east and leave just football in the AAC.

The "theory" goes from the Delaware message board and some chatter with UMass fans is this:

UConn, UMass, UC, Temple, Delaware, Buffalo, Navy, Army, Charlotte, and a couple others form a new FBS football-only conference (Atlantic 10 Football, or Big East 10, or Yankee Conference FBS or some name) and then "affiliate" their basketball and all there other sports with the Big East and Atlantic 10.

UConn, Cincinnati - Big East
UMass, Temple, Buffalo, Delaware, Charlotte - Atlantic 10
Navy, Army - Patriot

Not sure how the new CFP contract plays into it or if they need some sort of NCAA waiver and if they could get bowl-ties and such, but this is what is being worked on.

The rest of the AAC would form a new South West conference and the G5 would go into hyper-drive re-organization between the AAC, CUSA, Sun Belt, etc.... some CUSA teams would go to the MWC, some would form new Southwest conference, some east coast AAC (ECU), CUSA, Sun Belt maybe a MAC team would form a new South East conference, etc..

Not sure if it can get off the ground though. It would make a mess of the entire G5 part of FBS and let more FCS teams in.

This may be what Forbes is referring to in the article with "affiliation" and new geography based conferences.

In this scenario the TV partner would have to be NBC Sports and NBC Regional (Comcast) who already cover the area and need college sports content. They bid on a HUGE AAC TV package and missed out, so they want the content just got outbid and are sitting needing some.

I missed this post earlier. Now I see where Bob is coming from. I agree, this is not even possible per NCAA rules (so whoever is floating this is not very well informed). Furthermore, I don't see the P5 or any of the rest of the NCAA voting for rules that would allow this since it would basically only benefit a few schools.

So could this still be done? Well, a version of it could be formed. Six teams from the MAC would form the core. Those schools, each having competing against one another in Olympic sports for the required number of years together would allow the new league to sidestep the 7 year waiting period for NCAA bids and sponsor FBS football. That's one hurdle covered.

Then add the other schools. Delaware, UMass, Temple, Navy, Army, Cinci, UConn, and Charlotte would join. Up to 6 of the schools could feasibly play in another basketball league and simply compete as football only members of the new conference. That said, why would 6 MAC teams leave the MAC to help a bunch of good basketball schools not play basketball with them? I have no idea why they would do it.

The whole concept sounds like a pipe dream to me. There is no realistic way get where they want to go with this concept. They would probably have better luck joining as a group and taking a proposition to the MAC. Add UConn, UMass, Cinci, and Temple as football-only schools. If they say no, take that same proposition to the Sunbelt or CUSA. I bet CUSA would relish the chance to steal 4 large market AAC schools.

i think UConn will be just fine where they are.

(04-08-2014 07:30 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  i think UConn will be just fine where they are.

I agree.

The only way I could see UConn splitting their affiliation is if the Big 12 were willing to do football only with them. If UConn starts fielding a Top 10 football team several times a decade then the Big 12 might consider such an arrangement. UConn can then park their basketball in the Big East.

Given that the Big 12 already extends to West Virginia, it may elect just to bring the Huskies on as a full member, especially if their athletic program is performing like Louisville has been in recent years.

http://www.bigten.org/genrel/041014aad.html



excerpt (I bolded a word):

Last June, the Big Ten announced the acceptance of Johns Hopkins University as the conference's first sport affiliate member for men's lacrosse...

(04-08-2014 07:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 06:09 PM)ivet Wrote:  So UConn is not happy in the AAC? Why is that? I thought the AAC was one big happy family with all their football programs together...

The breakup/split of the Big East was not the football schools idea. The C7 cabal hatched that one in secret meetings. The C7 got what they wanted, but considering the situation in late 2012/early 2013---things have turned out better than most UConn fans probably expected.

The breakup of the Big East wasn't the football schools' idea? I beg to differ.

In 2003, after the ACC raid which took Miami, VA Tech, and later BC, the football schools constructed the split option after 5 years to protect themselves in the event that they weren't happy with the 8+8 hybrid. The concept was totally their idea.

Then, in 2011–12, football schools initiated the breakup by leaving in succession. First, TCU, then Syracuse & Pitt, followed by Notre Dame and West Virginia. Finally Rutgers and Maryland accepted invitations from the Big Ten, provoking the departure of Louisville to the ACC. These were all accomplished in secret meanings.

It was only after these moves had already been completed, decimating the basketball conference that the C7 had been part of that they exercised the split option - the split option that had been created by the football schools themselves.

So, tell me again how the split/breakup was the C7's idea, which they hatched in secret meetings. While you're at it, please explain how they constitute a "cabal", which is a secret group that plots to overthrow a government. I'd love to hear your explanation of that one.

(04-08-2014 07:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 03:34 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 03:20 PM)Hilltop 75 Wrote:  If I am a AAC school I dont allow uconn to affiliate their non- football sports with the big east and leave just football in the AAC.

The "theory" goes from the Delaware message board and some chatter with UMass fans is this:

UConn, UMass, UC, Temple, Delaware, Buffalo, Navy, Army, Charlotte, and a couple others form a new FBS football-only conference (Atlantic 10 Football, or Big East 10, or Yankee Conference FBS or some name) and then "affiliate" their basketball and all there other sports with the Big East and Atlantic 10.

UConn, Cincinnati - Big East
UMass, Temple, Buffalo, Delaware, Charlotte - Atlantic 10
Navy, Army - Patriot

Not sure how the new CFP contract plays into it or if they need some sort of NCAA waiver and if they could get bowl-ties and such, but this is what is being worked on.

The rest of the AAC would form a new South West conference and the G5 would go into hyper-drive re-organization between the AAC, CUSA, Sun Belt, etc.... some CUSA teams would go to the MWC, some would form new Southwest conference, some east coast AAC (ECU), CUSA, Sun Belt maybe a MAC team would form a new South East conference, etc..

Not sure if it can get off the ground though. It would make a mess of the entire G5 part of FBS and let more FCS teams in.

This may be what Forbes is referring to in the article with "affiliation" and new geography based conferences.

In this scenario the TV partner would have to be NBC Sports and NBC Regional (Comcast) who already cover the area and need college sports content. They bid on a HUGE AAC TV package and missed out, so they want the content just got outbid and are sitting needing some.

I missed this post earlier. Now I see where Bob is coming from. I agree, this is not even possible per NCAA rules (so whoever is floating this is not very well informed). Furthermore, I don't see the P5 or any of the rest of the NCAA voting for rules that would allow this since it would basically only benefit a few schools.

So could this still be done? Well, a version of it could be formed. Six teams from the MAC would form the core. Those schools, each having competing against one another in Olympic sports for the required number of years together would allow the new league to sidestep the 7 year waiting period for NCAA bids and sponsor FBS football. That's one hurdle covered.

Then add the other schools. Delaware, UMass, Temple, Navy, Army, Cinci, UConn, and Charlotte would join. Up to 6 of the schools could feasibly play in another basketball league and simply compete as football only members of the new conference. That said, why would 6 MAC teams leave the MAC to help a bunch of good basketball schools not play basketball with them? I have no idea why they would do it.

The whole concept sounds like a pipe dream to me. There is no realistic way get where they want to go with this concept. They would probably have better luck joining as a group and taking a proposition to the MAC. Add UConn, UMass, Cinci, and Temple as football-only schools. If they say no, take that same proposition to the Sunbelt or CUSA. I bet CUSA would relish the chance to steal 4 large market AAC schools.

Attacoog, I know that you know your stuff, so help me out with this one. What NCAA rule would prevent the formation of such a football-only conference? And how would it be any different than a hockey-only conference like Hockey East?

I don't believe for a minute that such a pipe dream is ever going to happen, nor do I believe that UConn is interested, but I am interested in what info you have on NCAA rules because I must be missing something.

Thanks in advance for your insights.

NCAA D1 Manual: Rule 20.02.6

Quote:20.02.6 Football Bowl Subdivision Conference. A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men’s and eight women’s conferencesponsored sports, including men’s basketball and football and three women’s team sports including women’s basketball.
A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular-season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable NCAA sport committee for
automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

(04-08-2014 03:45 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 03:34 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 03:20 PM)Hilltop 75 Wrote:  If I am a AAC school I dont allow uconn to affiliate their non- football sports with the big east and leave just football in the AAC.

The "theory" goes from the Delaware message board and some chatter with UMass fans is this:

UConn, UMass, UC, Temple, Delaware, Buffalo, Navy, Army, Charlotte, and a couple others form a new FBS football-only conference (Atlantic 10 Football, or Big East 10, or Yankee Conference FBS or some name) and then "affiliate" their basketball and all there other sports with the Big East and Atlantic 10.

UConn, Cincinnati - Big East
UMass, Temple, Buffalo, Delaware, Charlotte - Atlantic 10
Navy, Army - Patriot

Not sure how the new CFP contract plays into it or if they need some sort of NCAA waiver and if they could get bowl-ties and such, but this is what is being worked on.

The rest of the AAC would form a new South West conference and the G5 would go into hyper-drive re-organization between the AAC, CUSA, Sun Belt, etc.... some CUSA teams would go to the MWC, some would form new Southwest conference, some east coast AAC (ECU), CUSA, Sun Belt maybe a MAC team would form a new South East conference, etc..

Not sure if it can get off the ground though. It would make a mess of the entire G5 part of FBS and let more FCS teams in.

This may be what Forbes is referring to in the article with "affiliation" and new geography based conferences.

In this scenario the TV partner would have to be NBC Sports and NBC Regional (Comcast) who already cover the area and need college sports content. They bid on a HUGE AAC TV package and missed out, so they want the content just got outbid and are sitting needing some.

Nope, not gonna happen. Can't have an FBS conference without other sports. Heck, you can't have a conference in D1 period without basketball. The rules state that an FBS conference needs at least 8 all-sports members that play football and basketball (and other team sports) and at least 16 sports in the conference. No way do they just get a "waiver" to do this.

Maybe it's not a conference in the way that we have traditionally thought of conferences. Maybe as the article stresses, it's an "affiliation" of schools who are technically football independents. Whatever it's called, I don't see why this couldn't be done.

The article mentions the problems that UConn faces in sending its non-revenue Olympic sports to the Southwest. I can't imagine that they are any happier about it than West Virginia is. And they have nowhere near the financial cone satin that
West Virginia is getting to make up for the down side involved. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they are exploring other options to address these issues.

This is a time when schools are getting more and more creative. Realignment and expansion are just one part of this. Who would have expected BYU to join the WCC and go the independent route for football. The ACC said that they'd never consider the addition of anything but an all sports member. But there is Notre Dame playing in the ACC without football other than an "affiliation". It wouldn't be at all surprising if other schools start to get creative to maximize their assets as well.

(04-10-2014 02:09 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  NCAA D1 Manual: Rule 20.02.6

Quote:20.02.6 Football Bowl Subdivision Conference. A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men’s and eight women’s conferencesponsored sports, including men’s basketball and football and three women’s team sports including women’s basketball.
A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular-season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable NCAA sport committee for
automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

Thanks, Bob.

Keep in mind that team sports are really the only ones that have to play a conference schedule. Individual sports only have to participate in one conference meet. The rest could be scheduled with any other schools that are closer to each school.

I will just highlight the last sentence of the link in the original post:

“This is a follow the leader industry,” says Bailey. “School presidents change, you have to think about it in terms of people, about who is the leader of the day.”

(04-10-2014 01:42 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 07:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 06:09 PM)ivet Wrote:  So UConn is not happy in the AAC? Why is that? I thought the AAC was one big happy family with all their football programs together...

The breakup/split of the Big East was not the football schools idea. The C7 cabal hatched that one in secret meetings. The C7 got what they wanted, but considering the situation in late 2012/early 2013---things have turned out better than most UConn fans probably expected.

The breakup of the Big East wasn't the football schools' idea? I beg to differ.

In 2003, after the ACC raid which took Miami, VA Tech, and later BC, the football schools constructed the split option after 5 years to protect themselves in the event that they weren't happy with the 8+8 hybrid. The concept was totally their idea.

Then, in 2011–12, football schools initiated the breakup by leaving in succession. First, TCU, then Syracuse & Pitt, followed by Notre Dame and West Virginia. Finally Rutgers and Maryland accepted invitations from the Big Ten, provoking the departure of Louisville to the ACC. These were all accomplished in secret meanings.

It was only after these moves had already been completed, decimating the basketball conference that the C7 had been part of that they exercised the split option - the split option that had been created by the football schools themselves.

So, tell me again how the split/breakup was the C7's idea, which they hatched in secret meetings. While you're at it, please explain how they constitute a "cabal", which is a secret group that plots to overthrow a government. I'd love to hear your explanation of that one.

Ask UConn, Cincy, USF, and Temple if they were invited to those secret meetings where the C7 devised their exit strategy and undermined the media negotiating position of the Big East by talking to Fox. Did they invite Tulane, who they had just been awarded a "unanimous" invitation by the C-7 a month earlier, to those meetings? Look, the C7 did what was in the C-7's best interest and that's fine. Im sure the football schools would have done the same in their position. But nobody, and I mean nobody, believes the remaining football schools of the Big East wanted the split in December of 2012.

(04-10-2014 02:12 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 03:45 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 03:34 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 03:20 PM)Hilltop 75 Wrote:  If I am a AAC school I dont allow uconn to affiliate their non- football sports with the big east and leave just football in the AAC.

The "theory" goes from the Delaware message board and some chatter with UMass fans is this:

UConn, UMass, UC, Temple, Delaware, Buffalo, Navy, Army, Charlotte, and a couple others form a new FBS football-only conference (Atlantic 10 Football, or Big East 10, or Yankee Conference FBS or some name) and then "affiliate" their basketball and all there other sports with the Big East and Atlantic 10.

UConn, Cincinnati - Big East
UMass, Temple, Buffalo, Delaware, Charlotte - Atlantic 10
Navy, Army - Patriot

Not sure how the new CFP contract plays into it or if they need some sort of NCAA waiver and if they could get bowl-ties and such, but this is what is being worked on.

The rest of the AAC would form a new South West conference and the G5 would go into hyper-drive re-organization between the AAC, CUSA, Sun Belt, etc.... some CUSA teams would go to the MWC, some would form new Southwest conference, some east coast AAC (ECU), CUSA, Sun Belt maybe a MAC team would form a new South East conference, etc..

Not sure if it can get off the ground though. It would make a mess of the entire G5 part of FBS and let more FCS teams in.

This may be what Forbes is referring to in the article with "affiliation" and new geography based conferences.

In this scenario the TV partner would have to be NBC Sports and NBC Regional (Comcast) who already cover the area and need college sports content. They bid on a HUGE AAC TV package and missed out, so they want the content just got outbid and are sitting needing some.

Nope, not gonna happen. Can't have an FBS conference without other sports. Heck, you can't have a conference in D1 period without basketball. The rules state that an FBS conference needs at least 8 all-sports members that play football and basketball (and other team sports) and at least 16 sports in the conference. No way do they just get a "waiver" to do this.

Maybe it's not a conference in the way that we have traditionally thought of conferences. Maybe as the article stresses, it's an "affiliation" of schools who are technically football independents. Whatever it's called, I don't see why this couldn't be done.

The article mentions the problems that UConn faces in sending its non-revenue Olympic sports to the Southwest. I can't imagine that they are any happier about it than West Virginia is. And they have nowhere near the financial cone satin that
West Virginia is getting to make up for the down side involved. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they are exploring other options to address these issues.

This is a time when schools are getting more and more creative. Realignment and expansion are just one part of this. Who would have expected BYU to join the WCC and go the independent route for football. The ACC said that they'd never consider the addition of anything but an all sports member. But there is Notre Dame playing in the ACC without football other than an "affiliation". It wouldn't be at all surprising if other schools start to get creative to maximize their assets as well.

Basically, what you are talking about is not a traditional conference. Your saying its just a group of schools who join together to set schedules, negotiate media deals, and maybe even bowl agreements. Something like that could be done with existing FBS schools like UConn, UMass, Temple, Navy, and Cinci. The FCS schools discussed I suppose could affiliate with the same group---but these FCS schools could not make the jump to FBS because an FCS school must be invited to an actual FBS conference to make the transition from FCS to FBS.

Essentially, you are talking about a group of Indy FBS schools and Indy FCS schools working together to help with scheduling. I have always said that independence is tough right now---but if 5-10 schools opted to go Indy, then it becomes much easier to survive as an independent (especially if that group of schools is organized and agree to an alliance for late season scheduling). Obviously, if they are football independents, their Olympic sports can play in any D1 conference they are invited to.

Amazing that this guy gets paid for coming up with this. I'd expect more from a Boston College grad.....wait...

And the hits just keep coming!???


http://www.toledoblade.com/College/2014/...-pick.html



Excerpt:


“The Big Ten is not expecting Rutgers to be Ohio State, or expecting New York to be Chicago,” said Jeff Nelson, an analyst at Navigate Research, a Chicago firm that helps schools determine their market value.

“But it’s at least a foot in the door in that market and it was the best available option. Even with a program like UConn being the basketball power it is, the Big Ten would still pick Rutgers for the long term.”