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"BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers Was Invited
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #41
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-20-2014 10:29 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(05-20-2014 09:41 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(05-20-2014 09:29 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(05-20-2014 08:59 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Oh it's funny. Certain persons proclaimed that Rutgers and Maryland wouldn't be enough to get this kind of insertion into the Cable Providers. I laughed because of course the Big Ten was going to get that insertion. You don't make that big of a move without having already gotten a feel for the situation in advance.

Now folks want to attack "The Numbers". Some folks definitely have a case of something, whether it be little brother disease or they are simply Big Ten haters and have to constantly try to rip on anything having to do with the Big Ten.

Either way, I laugh again.

Keep hating folks, keep hating. Meanwhile, I am looking forward to matchups such as Rutgers and Penn State. Unfortunately I don't have The Big Ten Network anymore.

I wish I didn't have the BTN either, but I'm still forced to pay for it on basic cable. Seriously, it sucks and I hope people finally wake up and force cable networks to stop forcing consumers to pay for other conference networks.

I seriously fail to understand why so many of you guys are running around posting how awesome it is for the conference your school belongs to has the ability to fleece people out of money. What do you POSSIBLY gain from this? Do you gain any money from this personally?

I guess a few of you must sit around beating off and fantasizing about all the money conference ABC or XYZ will be making...

Once again, you fail to properly represent my perspective.

I am laughing at your anger. I am laughing at your choice of wording over this. I am laughing at your childlike antics in your attempt to attack me over....a dollar a month. I am laughing at how poor you must be to make such a big deal about a dollar a month on a forum where all of your ranting and antics and insults will have absolutely zero effect on the situation.

Yes, I am beating off to how much I love The Big Ten Network. Oh wait..I don't have it anymore. Oh yes I am yelling to the Heavens about how awesome it is. Oh wait, I have never done that. It is ok and I watched some football games on it but that's it.

It must be that I am being paid by The Big Ten and the BTN. Now that....well think what you like. Honestly I don't care and will be amused if you go off on another tangent about that. 07-coffee3

A dollar a month....03-lmfao

It's not a question about whether it's affordable or not. It's a crappy way to force consumers to pay for something that the majority of them really don't care to have. I'm bemused by how many of you get all excited over conference networks.

You don't. You're paying for the channels that you want and you think that you're getting a good deal. If you didn't think that the enjoyment derived from the channels that you like was worth the bill, you wouldn't keep paying for cable. The following explanation is a little over simplified, but your money then flows to the cable company and is distributed to the networks based on pre-arranged agreements that are essentially TV execs' best guess as to what the weighted averages of the end customer's willingness to pay for the content, as determined by consumer research. During the consumer research, your demographic was taken into account, and the BTN's per customer cut was adjusted downward accordingly. You aren't paying for it. It only looks like you are.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2014 08:11 AM by nzmorange.)
05-21-2014 08:10 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #42
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-21-2014 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(05-21-2014 12:26 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Iowa buddy...no one knows what the net is going to be. For all we know the B1G is netting 25 cents a script....let's wait.

You're right, but we are not saying we know it. What we are saying is that folks like you and the "Pitt Posse" and the rest of the ACC Gang on this forum swore up and down that Maryland and Rutgers would not be enough to get the BTN shown in the Beltway.

What We are saying is that you were wrong. Now you guys want to try and reformulate the debate because you are having to slide from the original debate because you lost it.

What I said is that the BTN revenue stream is not JUST carriage fee's and I said that because it seemed like some of you are trying to base your entire argument off of the carriage fees and whether or not a school like Rutgers is a positive or negative. Well then one also has to add in all the advertising gained from that Beltway area, not just carriage fee numbers. Yet when that point, which is valid, is made...all I get are personal attacks upon me.

It isn't surprising at all. You guys all have serious issues and should really just ignore any threads that bring up the Big Ten.

Find one time I said the BTN wouldn't get carriage in the Rutgers and Maryland primary markets?
05-21-2014 08:50 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #43
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-20-2014 10:45 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(05-20-2014 10:15 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The BTN actually nets more profit from advertising than it does carriage fees. Carriage fees are made public, advertising profits aren't so obvious to find. From what little has been said, the BTN averages around a 60/40 split. That includes a conference footprint that contains quite a bit of Midwestern low to middle population density area.

Cool story...and the BTN has zero production costs too!
But we know that the fixed cost component of production costs are already mostly covered, since BTN has already hit profitability, and the variable cost component is going to be a smaller share of production costs than the advertising share of network revenues, so its still going to net out as more incremental profit overall than the increase in carriage fee revenue alone.
05-21-2014 09:36 AM
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krup Offline
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Post: #44
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
Even as a RU fan I must admit that some of the BTN revenue projections thrown around seem as flimsy as Clay Travis' rantings about the SEC network.

On the other hand, it is kind of amusing to see how people are acting as if the "YES and NFL Network took over a year to get on basic cable in the NY area, so there is no way the BTN is getting it done quickly" meme never existed.
05-21-2014 09:38 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #45
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-21-2014 09:38 AM)krup Wrote:  Even as a RU fan I must admit that some of the BTN revenue projections thrown around seem as flimsy as Clay Travis' rantings about the SEC network.

On the other hand, it is kind of amusing to see how people are acting as if the "YES and NFL Network took over a year to get on basic cable in the NY area, so there is no way the BTN is getting it done quickly" meme never existed.

We know that historically, BTN has given a huge discount to get cleared in the Philly market. I'd be surprised if a similar was not required to get cleared in NYC, particularly outside of the State of NJ. Having said that, it's a huge market, so clearance, even at a discount, should be a solid revenue source.
05-21-2014 09:44 AM
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jayrutgers Offline
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Post: #46
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers Was Invited
The thing with the projections is that they only factor in Cablevision and TWC, and not Comcast. And the BTN said they will have that done by August. Get on Comcast and $50 million could be considered a low projection.
05-21-2014 09:44 AM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #47
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-20-2014 09:37 PM)DexterDevil Wrote:  I just like BTN so I can watch college hockey and baseball...

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Big Ten baseball?

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05-21-2014 09:44 AM
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krup Offline
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Post: #48
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-21-2014 09:44 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(05-21-2014 09:38 AM)krup Wrote:  Even as a RU fan I must admit that some of the BTN revenue projections thrown around seem as flimsy as Clay Travis' rantings about the SEC network.

On the other hand, it is kind of amusing to see how people are acting as if the "YES and NFL Network took over a year to get on basic cable in the NY area, so there is no way the BTN is getting it done quickly" meme never existed.

We know that historically, BTN has given a huge discount to get cleared in the Philly market. I'd be surprised if a similar was not required to get cleared in NYC, particularly outside of the State of NJ. Having said that, it's a huge market, so clearance, even at a discount, should be a solid revenue source.
I agree. Actually, through the years I have seen so many different explanations of the BTN carriage fees (some say the full "in-state" fee is $1.00 more than states w/o a B1G team , while others say $0.60) that I am not even sure what should be expected.
05-21-2014 09:50 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #49
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-21-2014 09:38 AM)krup Wrote:  Even as a RU fan I must admit that some of the BTN revenue projections thrown around seem as flimsy as Clay Travis' rantings about the SEC network.

On the other hand, it is kind of amusing to see how people are acting as if the "YES and NFL Network took over a year to get on basic cable in the NY area, so there is no way the BTN is getting it done quickly" meme never existed.

I figured once the Yanks were tied in..they would get carriage...I have my doubts they received full price of around $1 a month a script. We'll see.
05-21-2014 10:04 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #50
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-21-2014 09:50 AM)krup Wrote:  
(05-21-2014 09:44 AM)orangefan Wrote:  
(05-21-2014 09:38 AM)krup Wrote:  Even as a RU fan I must admit that some of the BTN revenue projections thrown around seem as flimsy as Clay Travis' rantings about the SEC network.

On the other hand, it is kind of amusing to see how people are acting as if the "YES and NFL Network took over a year to get on basic cable in the NY area, so there is no way the BTN is getting it done quickly" meme never existed.

We know that historically, BTN has given a huge discount to get cleared in the Philly market. I'd be surprised if a similar was not required to get cleared in NYC, particularly outside of the State of NJ. Having said that, it's a huge market, so clearance, even at a discount, should be a solid revenue source.
I agree. Actually, through the years I have seen so many different explanations of the BTN carriage fees (some say the full "in-state" fee is $1.00 more than states w/o a B1G team , while others say $0.60) that I am not even sure what should be expected.

I think that all the powers that be like it that way. It lets everyone twist the facts to best suit their agenda at that given point in time, and all relevant parties have conflicting motivations to look rich and poor, depending on who they're talking to.
05-21-2014 10:08 AM
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brista21 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-21-2014 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(05-21-2014 12:26 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Iowa buddy...no one knows what the net is going to be. For all we know the B1G is netting 25 cents a script....let's wait.

You're right, but we are not saying we know it. What we are saying is that folks like you and the "Pitt Posse" and the rest of the ACC Gang on this forum swore up and down that Maryland and Rutgers would not be enough to get the BTN shown in the Beltway.

What We are saying is that you were wrong. Now you guys want to try and reformulate the debate because you are having to slide from the original debate because you lost it.

What I said is that the BTN revenue stream is not JUST carriage fee's and I said that because it seemed like some of you are trying to base your entire argument off of the carriage fees and whether or not a school like Rutgers is a positive or negative. Well then one also has to add in all the advertising gained from that Beltway area, not just carriage fee numbers. Yet when that point, which is valid, is made...all I get are personal attacks upon me.

It isn't surprising at all. You guys all have serious issues and should really just ignore any threads that bring up the Big Ten.

He1nous, to be fair you throw a fair amount of dung back and forth on this stuff as well. I'm not saying anyone is innocent or totally at fault, but both sides could stand to tone it down a few notches.
05-21-2014 10:20 AM
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Topkat Offline
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Post: #52
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-20-2014 10:53 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(05-20-2014 10:08 PM)Topkat Wrote:  Unfortunately, any cable package I buy has channels included that I don't watch. So, welcome to the party.

http://www.barkingcarnival.com/2014/5/20...ot-of-gold

The above link says the Big Ten is looking at north of $40M per school in tv revenue in 2017 (BTN + New TV Deal).

I assume that is their own projections based on what they think will be the new TV deal in 2016 + BTN. By then I think the BTN will be generating a payout of $9-10M per school, with Rutgers and Maryland (current payout about $7.5M per school).

I'm not sure I understand all the talk about Rutgers being an extra mouth to feed. Without Comcast figured in, on the low end adding Rutgers generates about $24M in revenue/year. Even if you only look at half (after taxes) being distributed to the 14 schools, its about $850K per school (we haven't even touched on advertising money increasing).

Honestly, maybe someone can explain how the SEC or potental ACC network model would be different? Whatever reasons you cite for the BTN is going to apply to other conference networks.

Please list your calculations how Rutgers will add $24 million with Comcast figured in. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but there is no data in that blog that can determine that, and likely, there will be nothing forthcoming to determine that.

BTW, that over $40 million number in 2017 (actually $44.5 million) was from an article in the Lafayette Journal & Courier and included projections for the entirety of the per team conference disbursement that is expected in the first year of their primary media deal with ESPN and/or Fox. That number included everything, not just media rights, including College Football Playoff payouts, NCAA tournament, bowls, etc, as well as Big Ten Network profit shares that they are distributing for the first time this year. That projection also makes a lot of assumptions about a contract that isn't yet negotiated, and is also during a time when MD and RU have not yet been fully integrated financially.

To address this, consider that the Big Ten isn't getting a dime more from the College Football Playoff because it has MD and Rutgers, it likely isn't getting anything significantly more from bowls because of those two, it isn't going to generate more revenue from its football championship, and well, we'll see how well those two do in the NCAA Tournament. There is no way to know how much those two would add to the future ESPN/Fox contract over and above the increases the Big Ten would have received anyway, and the only thing you can consider is to ask yourself how much value those two schools brought to their prior Big East/ACC contracts, which didn't seem like a whole lot, especially for Rutgers. How much will they contribute to Big Ten Network earnings?...that's only one piece of that $44.5m projection ..there is no way to tell without making a ton of assumptions unless you have the actual numbers about increased carriage, subscriber rates, advertising rates in the new markets, profit share increases due to just those two teams, everything. No one has these numbers.

This is the danger of lazy bloggers just throwing numbers together without consideration of context. People's eyes get wide and they get all lathered up over big numbers. We can diverge from the Big Ten and also look at the ridiculous projections that were made about the Pac-12 and SEC networks being instant cash machines; but the reality is far from that. The point isn't that these networks may not eventually make money, because they will, but how the blog-o-sphere is more about splashy headlines than examining information in detail and context.

You can do the math as well as I can. Maybe you think the Big Ten is going to give the "deal" Comcast got in 2008 for Philly subscribers when they signed on for .70 per sub. This ain't 2008.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily...-Deal.aspx

As for the pay out projections after the new tv deal is signed, we will wait and see. Something tells me you won't be happy.

The NCAA unit payout for basketball is not static. You can garner more money for your conference depending on how many games you win. It doesn't matter who wins them. Adding two more schools to the payout is more than offset by cable subs and advertising gains.

The Bowl payout is increasing exponentially with the new playoff deals. Each school will not make less with the two additions than they make now. Besides, they are at 14 schools, same as the ACC and SEC. How is that a competitive disadvantage?

To sum up, the Big Ten per school will make more money by adding Maryland and Rutgers. I'm sure Delany has had tv people and accoutants all over the additions crunching numbers. But I guess you know better.
05-21-2014 11:41 AM
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DexterDevil Offline
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Post: #53
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-21-2014 09:44 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(05-20-2014 09:37 PM)DexterDevil Wrote:  I just like BTN so I can watch college hockey and baseball...

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Big Ten baseball?

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You're funny, I just enjoy watching baseball, doesn't matter whether it's Michigan, Sparty, Tigers, or Eastern.
05-21-2014 12:00 PM
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harley93davidson Offline
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Post: #54
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers Was Invited
Its not hard to get a conservative estimate on what Rutgers and Maryland bring. Bare with me (not counting increased fees in philly) the dmas of Baltimore, dc and NYC ad 10,968,520 households if we go under a harsh assumption that the big ten will only be able to get 75 cents a month in carriage fee from each DMA (it is widely assumed Baltimore and dc will go for a full dollar) and that every person already had btn on the extra sports package (10 cents a month) than the big would only gain 65 cents per household per month. 65 cents multiplied by 12 months equals 7.80 per year per household multiply that by 10,968,520 households and that gives slightly over 85 million dollars earned from the add (not including added revenue in Philly and assuming big ten cannot get full carriage fees any where). Since the conference pays out about 26 mill a school umd and rutty more than carry their weight 26 by 2 is 52 and leave (85-52) 33 million dollars left over divide that by 14 teams and each school stands to gain at least two million dollars on a conservative estimate. Its actually really simple math when you break it down
05-21-2014 04:46 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #55
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-21-2014 04:46 PM)harley93davidson Wrote:  Its not hard to get a conservative estimate on what Rutgers and Maryland bring. Bare with me (not counting increased fees in philly) the dmas of Baltimore, dc and NYC ad 10,968,520 households if we go under a harsh assumption that the big ten will only be able to get 75 cents a month in carriage fee from each DMA (it is widely assumed Baltimore and dc will go for a full dollar) and that every person already had btn on the extra sports package (10 cents a month) than the big would only gain 65 cents per household per month. 65 cents multiplied by 12 months equals 7.80 per year per household multiply that by 10,968,520 households and that gives slightly over 85 million dollars earned from the add (not including added revenue in Philly and assuming big ten cannot get full carriage fees any where). Since the conference pays out about 26 mill a school umd and rutty more than carry their weight 26 by 2 is 52 and leave (85-52) 33 million dollars left over divide that by 14 teams and each school stands to gain at least two million dollars on a conservative estimate. Its actually really simple math when you break it down

You never multiplied by .49, you're assuming that only $0.10 of the current subscribers subscription fees goes to the BTN (which seems low to me, but I don't know), and that $0.75 number *may* be high as we don't know the actual number.
05-21-2014 05:20 PM
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harley93davidson Offline
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Post: #56
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers Was Invited
Out of market subscriber fees for btn is ten cents so anyone who has the network in dc, NYC, and Baltimore is paying that amount for it, and considering every DMA that has btn on basic cable has it at a full buck (except Philly which I believe is 70 cents) I think its safe to assume the average for the three dams will be at least 75 cents, who knows though maybe the new York cable companies had their way with Delaney it is definitely possible. And you are right I forgot about fox so yea if btn gets hosed y dc and Baltimore cable companies and can't further penetrate Philly than this will probably not be all too successful
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2014 05:45 PM by harley93davidson.)
05-21-2014 05:26 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #57
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
(05-21-2014 04:46 PM)harley93davidson Wrote:  Bare with me
No thanks, I'd rather stay clothed, the front window is open.

As far as bearing with you, OK ...

Quote: ... and that gives slightly over 85 million dollars earned from the add (not including added revenue in Philly and assuming big ten cannot get full carriage fees any where).

Divide by two for Big Ten share of incremental profits = ~$42m

Add an unknown amount for ad revenue, but if this is a conservative estimate, that can be left to one side as certainly covering net new production costs, leaving ~$42m as a conservative estimate.

Quote: Since the conference pays out about 26 mill a school umd and rutty

... come close to carrying their weight on BTN alone, and will certainly more than carry their weight when the new primary broadcast and cable network contract(s) rights are negotiated. And as a more rapidly growing demographic area than the original Big Ten footprint, can be expected to contribute more to the rate of growth of revenues than the typical Big Ten school main footprint area.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2014 10:38 AM by BruceMcF.)
05-22-2014 10:36 AM
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harley93davidson Offline
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Post: #58
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers...
That was kind of my point the only thing i realized is that you have to multiply by 0.49 thats why initially i over estimated it, but even then no way the conference settles for Baltimore and dc at anything under one dollar and the realitive ease that nyc was aquired suggests it may pay full dollar i bet the real multiplier in incresed revenue is somewhere around 0.95 (this is assuming all three dmas pay full and half the population already had btn) not 0.65 and with that (still not including philly increase) the two schools bring in around 60 mill so w/ btn alone carry their own weight and about 500 grand extra for each school.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2014 08:22 PM by harley93davidson.)
05-22-2014 08:22 PM
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brista21 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers Was Invited
In other news RCN has also signed on to carry BTN on their Basic package. RCN serves customers in a few different boroughs.
05-22-2014 09:37 PM
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Hitch Offline
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Post: #60
RE: "BTN hits NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars" aka Why Rutgers Was Invited
I'll believe UMD's market is a big deal when I start seeing K street buying spots on BTN.
05-22-2014 09:55 PM
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