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FCS conference to FBS
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #41
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-24-2014 09:00 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  I don't think many here know the rules that have to followed to move up from FCS to FBS.

Meeting the five home games against FBS teams requirement is virtually impossible, unless you are invited to join an FBS Conference. Can't count other FCS teams as FBS. Unless a school has P5 resources, and can buy FBS home games the door to FBS without an invite is shut.

Also, the new playoff format and the new autonomy proposal, if it is approved, for all intents and purposes separates the FBS Conferences from the other 22 Division Conferences.

Many FBS schools have already let it be known that they will not be scheduling FCS teams in the future, and I think that will be the norm.
Meeting the five game home FBS requirement is possible if an FCS conference moves up en masse. FBS transitional teams count as much as FBS teams for scheduling. The NCAA rules have been increasingly conference based in decision making. Why not for FBS: choose to be an FBS conference or not? FBS sets themselves up for a major lawsuit if they don't open it up. Flagship institutions in small states, particularly, Mt, ND, SD, De, NH, and Me, are shut out of FBS because of some arbitrary rule that is clearly a restriction of trade. Senators from those states can make life difficult for FBS.

The Big Sky or CAA won't receive CFB payments if they move up until at least 2026. But that doesn't mean they won't move up if those conferences are given a chance to compete. The difference between FBS and FCS for recruiting is huge even for other sports.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2014 10:01 PM by NoDak.)
07-24-2014 09:38 PM
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MJG Offline
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Post: #42
RE: FCS conference to FBS
Why in a thread about a possible rules change are current rules given as a reason it can't happen.

The FCS conferences and P5 can enact a rule if they vote together once the new voting structure takes effect.

Supposedly this has been bargained for in exchange for P5 autonomy.
I know it is a conspiracy at this point but has been talked about for at least seven years.

Schools were required to have thirty thousand seats and sponsor 16 sports that's it. That is how several moved up in the past. That rule resulted in bad stadiums some have reduced capacity like Kent State has currently 20500 . Twelve stadiums are under twenty five thousand next year. Those twelve would be in FCS if the old rule existed.
Six teams move up in the CAA or BSC they add U MASS and Idaho for Seven. Then you have either three or four conference FBS home games . One home and home and an FCS at home equals five. Sell fifteen thousand tickets regardless of buttstock in seats that's it. A conference moving up keeping rivals not raiding other conference's makes sense.
07-25-2014 03:25 AM
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Seminole Indian Offline
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Post: #43
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-24-2014 09:19 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-24-2014 09:00 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  I don't think many here know the rules that have to followed to move up from FCS to FBS.

Meeting the five home games against FBS teams requirement is virtually impossible, unless you are invited to join an FBS Conference. Can't count other FCS teams as FBS. Unless a school has P5 resources, and can buy FBS home games the door to FBS without an invite is shut.

Also, the new playoff format and the new autonomy proposal, if it is approved, for all intents and purposes separates the FBS Conferences from the other 22 Division Conferences.

Many FBS schools have already let it be known that they will not be scheduling FCS teams in the future, and I think that will be the norm.

You cant move up to FBS without a conference home. That's already a rule.
I did not know that, must have been using old requirements:

Basic eligibility requirements to move up to FBS from FCS
1.Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaw 20. Sponsorship shall include a minimum six sports involving all male teams or mixed teams (males and females), and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate teams involving all female teams. Institutions may use up to two emerging sports to satisfy the required eight varsity intercollegiate sports involving all female teams. [Bylaw 20.9.7.1]

2. Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Football Bowl Subdivision. Institutions shall schedule and play at least five regular season home contests against Football Bowl Subdivision opponents. [Bylaw 20.9.7.2]

3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]

4. Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(a)]

5. Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(b)]

It is obvious that even under these rules it would be almost impossible for an FCS to move up without an FBS home.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2014 07:52 AM by Seminole Indian.)
07-25-2014 07:34 AM
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Seminole Indian Offline
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Post: #44
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-25-2014 03:25 AM)MJG Wrote:  Why in a thread about a possible rules change are current rules given as a reason it can't happen.
The FCS conferences and P5 can enact a rule if they vote together once the new voting structure takes effect.

Supposedly this has been bargained for in exchange for P5 autonomy.
I know it is a conspiracy at this point but has been talked about for at least seven years.

Schools were required to have thirty thousand seats and sponsor 16 sports that's it. That is how several moved up in the past. That rule resulted in bad stadiums some have reduced capacity like Kent State has currently 20500 . Twelve stadiums are under twenty five thousand next year. Those twelve would be in FCS if the old rule existed.
Six teams move up in the CAA or BSC they add U MASS and Idaho for Seven. Then you have either three or four conference FBS home games . One home and home and an FCS at home equals five. Sell fifteen thousand tickets regardless of buttstock in seats that's it. A conference moving up keeping rivals not raiding other conference's makes sense.
Because some posters seem to think it is possible there could be a rule change , or their is mechanism in place where an FCS Conference could move up, and some of us disagree.

I did not think it was possible for an FBS conference to transition to FBS under the old rules, and if the autonomy proposal is approved it for all intent and purposes separates the FBS Conferences from the other 22 Division 1 Conferences and pretty much shuts the door for any rules change that would allow it to happen.

Most feel the new post season play-off format will also insure that games between FCS and FBS schools all but go away. Many school have already said they will not schedule FCS going forward because of the new post season format. Because the amount of $ for the G5 is set, not reason to add schools, lots of reasons not too.
07-25-2014 07:49 AM
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The Sicatoka Offline
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Post: #45
RE: FCS conference to FBS
Quote:3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]

There are FBS schools not meeting that criteria right now. Either enforce the rule or get rid of it; otherwise 'enforcement' is simply arbitrary and capricious.
07-25-2014 08:23 AM
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MJG Offline
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Post: #46
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-25-2014 07:34 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  
(07-24-2014 09:19 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-24-2014 09:00 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  I don't think many here know the rules that have to followed to move up from FCS to FBS.

Meeting the five home games against FBS teams requirement is virtually impossible, unless you are invited to join an FBS Conference. Can't count other FCS teams as FBS. Unless a school has P5 resources, and can buy FBS home games the door to FBS without an invite is shut.

Also, the new playoff format and the new autonomy proposal, if it is approved, for all intents and purposes separates the FBS Conferences from the other 22 Division Conferences.

Many FBS schools have already let it be known that they will not be scheduling FCS teams in the future, and I think that will be the norm.

You cant move up to FBS without a conference home. That's already a rule.
I did not know that, must have been using old requirements:

Basic eligibility requirements to move up to FBS from FCS
1.Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaw 20. Sponsorship shall include a minimum six sports involving all male teams or mixed teams (males and females), and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate teams involving all female teams. Institutions may use up to two emerging sports to satisfy the required eight varsity intercollegiate sports involving all female teams. [Bylaw 20.9.7.1]

2. Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Football Bowl Subdivision. Institutions shall schedule and play at least five regular season home contests against Football Bowl Subdivision opponents. [Bylaw 20.9.7.2]

3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]

4. Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(a)]

5. Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(b)]

It is obvious that even under these rules it would be almost impossible for an FCS to move up without an FBS home.

Big Sky sponsors 16 sports Cal-Poly sponsors 21.
UC-DAVIS 28
North Dakota 21
They exceed the requirements except five FBS HOME GAMES and Attendance.
Attendance doesn't matter and the conference schedule takes care of the home games part.

The Autonomy rules have relegated the G5 to second tier status FCS third tier.
07-25-2014 08:28 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #47
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-25-2014 08:28 AM)MJG Wrote:  
(07-25-2014 07:34 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  
(07-24-2014 09:19 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-24-2014 09:00 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  I don't think many here know the rules that have to followed to move up from FCS to FBS.

Meeting the five home games against FBS teams requirement is virtually impossible, unless you are invited to join an FBS Conference. Can't count other FCS teams as FBS. Unless a school has P5 resources, and can buy FBS home games the door to FBS without an invite is shut.

Also, the new playoff format and the new autonomy proposal, if it is approved, for all intents and purposes separates the FBS Conferences from the other 22 Division Conferences.

Many FBS schools have already let it be known that they will not be scheduling FCS teams in the future, and I think that will be the norm.

You cant move up to FBS without a conference home. That's already a rule.
I did not know that, must have been using old requirements:

Basic eligibility requirements to move up to FBS from FCS
1.Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaw 20. Sponsorship shall include a minimum six sports involving all male teams or mixed teams (males and females), and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate teams involving all female teams. Institutions may use up to two emerging sports to satisfy the required eight varsity intercollegiate sports involving all female teams. [Bylaw 20.9.7.1]

2. Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Football Bowl Subdivision. Institutions shall schedule and play at least five regular season home contests against Football Bowl Subdivision opponents. [Bylaw 20.9.7.2]

3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]

4. Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(a)]

5. Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(b)]

It is obvious that even under these rules it would be almost impossible for an FCS to move up without an FBS home.

Big Sky sponsors 16 sports Cal-Poly sponsors 21.
UC-DAVIS 28
North Dakota 21
They exceed the requirements except five FBS HOME GAMES and Attendance.
Attendance doesn't matter and the conference schedule takes care of the home games part.

The Autonomy rules have relegated the G5 to second tier status FCS third tier.

1. Doesn't matter, its about the scholarship requirement for FBS which then adds more schollie sports for women. The new rules/benefits coming down the pike adds $2 to 3 million on top adding new schollies. So you're asking a FCS school to add $5 million instantly and most only have a budget of $12 million. Thats and increase of around 45%

2. The G5 was already second tier and FCS 3rd tier. There's no change in that status.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2014 08:47 AM by MWC Tex.)
07-25-2014 08:39 AM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #48
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-25-2014 08:23 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  
Quote:3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]

There are FBS schools not meeting that criteria right now. Either enforce the rule or get rid of it; otherwise 'enforcement' is simply arbitrary and capricious.



NCAA wont force anyone down anymore. Worried about lawsuits. That rule will never be enforced at this level.

Maybe a conference could enforce it. I could see the SBC looking for excuses to boot Idaho after 2017...but that couldn't even force a program to go FCS. The consequences for dropping down are just too dire.
07-25-2014 10:49 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #49
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-25-2014 10:49 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-25-2014 08:23 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  
Quote:3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]

There are FBS schools not meeting that criteria right now. Either enforce the rule or get rid of it; otherwise 'enforcement' is simply arbitrary and capricious.



NCAA wont force anyone down anymore. Worried about lawsuits. That rule will never be enforced at this level.

Maybe a conference could enforce it. I could see the SBC looking for excuses to boot Idaho after 2017...but that couldn't even force a program to go FCS. The consequences for dropping down are just too dire.

I think it's unenforceable anyway. There's any number of ways to distribute tickets if it really came down to it.
07-25-2014 11:02 AM
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Post: #50
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-25-2014 03:25 AM)MJG Wrote:  Why in a thread about a possible rules change are current rules given as a reason it can't happen.

The FCS conferences and P5 can enact a rule if they vote together once the new voting structure takes effect.

Supposedly this has been bargained for in exchange for P5 autonomy.
I know it is a conspiracy at this point but has been talked about for at least seven years.

Schools were required to have thirty thousand seats and sponsor 16 sports that's it. That is how several moved up in the past. That rule resulted in bad stadiums some have reduced capacity like Kent State has currently 20500 . Twelve stadiums are under twenty five thousand next year. Those twelve would be in FCS if the old rule existed.
Six teams move up in the CAA or BSC they add U MASS and Idaho for Seven. Then you have either three or four conference FBS home games . One home and home and an FCS at home equals five. Sell fifteen thousand tickets regardless of buttstock in seats that's it. A conference moving up keeping rivals not raiding other conference's makes sense.

Rule for FBS membership are made by FBS. There has to be a reason for FBS to want to expand. I just don't see any. If you look at the comments of most FBs commissioners, it's more likely that FBS membership is to be paired down rather than expanded.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2014 02:13 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-25-2014 11:05 AM
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Seminole Indian Offline
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Post: #51
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-25-2014 08:28 AM)MJG Wrote:  
(07-25-2014 07:34 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  
(07-24-2014 09:19 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-24-2014 09:00 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  I don't think many here know the rules that have to followed to move up from FCS to FBS.

Meeting the five home games against FBS teams requirement is virtually impossible, unless you are invited to join an FBS Conference. Can't count other FCS teams as FBS. Unless a school has P5 resources, and can buy FBS home games the door to FBS without an invite is shut.

Also, the new playoff format and the new autonomy proposal, if it is approved, for all intents and purposes separates the FBS Conferences from the other 22 Division Conferences.

Many FBS schools have already let it be known that they will not be scheduling FCS teams in the future, and I think that will be the norm.

You cant move up to FBS without a conference home. That's already a rule.
I did not know that, must have been using old requirements:

Basic eligibility requirements to move up to FBS from FCS
1.Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaw 20. Sponsorship shall include a minimum six sports involving all male teams or mixed teams (males and females), and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate teams involving all female teams. Institutions may use up to two emerging sports to satisfy the required eight varsity intercollegiate sports involving all female teams. [Bylaw 20.9.7.1]

2. Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Football Bowl Subdivision. Institutions shall schedule and play at least five regular season home contests against Football Bowl Subdivision opponents. [Bylaw 20.9.7.2]

3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]

4. Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(a)]

5. Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(b)]

It is obvious that even under these rules it would be almost impossible for an FCS to move up without an FBS home.

Big Sky sponsors 16 sports Cal-Poly sponsors 21.
UC-DAVIS 28
North Dakota 21
They exceed the requirements except five FBS HOME GAMES and Attendance.
Attendance doesn't matter and the conference schedule takes care of the home games part.

The Autonomy rules have relegated the G5 to second tier status FCS third tier.
Who are the five FBS teams on their schedule?

Better read the proposal.

What they have done, both in the new postseason format, and the Autonomy rules is separate the FBS Conferences from the other 22 Division one Conferences.

Probably why the SBC Commissioner thinks they cannot approved it quick enough. Supports everything in it.

A few Non-FBS Commissioners started to squawk, but all 5 G5's made it clear they were 100% go, and of course the P5's were already on board.

Turns out the stumbling blocks to them getting what they wanted on the few issues they wanted autonomy over were not the G5's, so they simply left the G5's alone, and took the votes from the other Division1 Conferences. There are other provision that insure separation included in the proposal.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2014 11:34 AM by Seminole Indian.)
07-25-2014 11:24 AM
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MJG Offline
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Post: #52
RE: FCS conference to FBS
An invitation is not a standard or attainable.

The G5 conferences will not want to expand past twelve .
Once the SBC reaches 12 FBS is closed.
No matter how strong a program becomes .
They can average twenty five thousand like Montana which is better than thirty FBS programs. They can be AAU have thirty thousand students. Still no invite no FBS seems Un American.

A standard is possible to attain like 16 sports sponsored.
Turning FBS into a private club will not last.

The G5 got the right to match P5 rules.
That could be huge for basketball but makes no difference in football.
07-25-2014 01:42 PM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #53
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-23-2014 04:02 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 03:49 PM)MJG Wrote:  The whole conference would not have to move up just six schools. NAU, ISU, NCU, UND, EWU and SUU would form a FCS football only conference. They would stay in the BSC for Olympic sports . These schools would benefit from having a future path to FBS. The different football groups still play just at the FBS school. The fee could be set bye the conference even scheduling the games.

Your concept is good. Your breakdown is suspect.

The staying FCS crowd would probably be: Northern Arizona, Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, Idaho State, and Weber State.

The Montanas, the States (Portland and Sac), and Eastern Washington and UND would move and you have to assume Idaho would be part of the mix. Current football associates Cal Poly and UC-Davis would take a long look.

I think North Arizona would make the move along with Montana and Montana State, Eastern Washington, Cal Poly, UC-Davis and Sacramento State.

Portland State is questionable. Idaho State would move up to join Idaho. Then add two Dakotas

West

North Arizona
Eastern Washington
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sarcramento State
Idaho


West

Montana
Montana State
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Northern Iowa
Idaho State

If you go fourteen, then add Portland State and Northern Colorado
07-25-2014 02:13 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #54
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-25-2014 01:42 PM)MJG Wrote:  An invitation is not a standard or attainable.

The G5 conferences will not want to expand past twelve .
Once the SBC reaches 12 FBS is closed.
No matter how strong a program becomes .
They can average twenty five thousand like Montana which is better than thirty FBS programs. They can be AAU have thirty thousand students. Still no invite no FBS seems Un American.

A standard is possible to attain like 16 sports sponsored.
Turning FBS into a private club will not last.

The G5 got the right to match P5 rules.
That could be huge for basketball but makes no difference in football.

I think an FCS school can still move up after the SB gets to 12---it will just be much harder. The FCS school would have to be very impressive---likely a school with a average attendance in the 30-35K range with strong athletic programs. It would need to immediately increase the value of a G5 conferences media value.
07-25-2014 02:22 PM
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Post: #55
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-23-2014 05:20 PM)MJG Wrote:  UC-Davis expansion to thirty thousand is 72% funded.

MJG, where in the world did you get this factoid? We spent $30 million to get a 10,000 seat stadium which means in order to add 20k seats we would have to be sitting on another $30-50 million.

If the athletic department announced they were close to TRIPLING the size of Aggie Stadium (which we can't sell out on a consistent basis) you would see anarchy amongst the other sports teams. We have a long way to go before we consider adding seats. We lack support and training facilities for our 23 sports as is, softball is getting $4 million to replace their stadium and field hockey is getting a $3 million facility opening soon.

Either Tumey found the money tree or you are way off.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2014 03:29 PM by aggie6thman.)
07-25-2014 03:27 PM
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aggie6thman Offline
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Post: #56
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-25-2014 08:28 AM)MJG Wrote:  Big Sky sponsors 16 sports Cal-Poly sponsors 21.
UC-DAVIS 28
North Dakota 21
They exceed the requirements except five FBS HOME GAMES and Attendance.
Attendance doesn't matter and the conference schedule takes care of the home games part.

The Autonomy rules have relegated the G5 to second tier status FCS third tier.

Neither Cal Poly nor UC Davis is in the Big Sky for anything other than football, for mostly everything else we are in the Big West.

And we don't sponsor 28 teams, we sponsor 22 which is still way too many for our budget.
07-25-2014 03:42 PM
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Post: #57
RE: FCS conference to FBS
1. Again, why would the P5 want another lower-FBS conference? How does it benefit them? Maybe it desn't hurt them, but why would they work to make it happen?

2. People have made a lot of lists and typed a lot about how an FCS-FBS Big Sky split would work. But they always have Montana and Montana State grouped in with directionals and UC-Nowhere's. Montana's AD wrote up a study years ago on moving t FBS, and a big reason was that UM was percieved as a peer insitution of Eastern Washington and Southern Utah and Northern Arizona rather than other state flagships.

I think if there's a shakeup, it's not a mass FBS-FCS moveup. It's an FCS reoganization into a conference built around Montana and schools that Montana would want to line up with. Something like:
Great Northern Conference
Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, North Dakota State, SDSU, South Dakota, Idaho State, maybe Portland State, Seattle U, U of Denver. That would be a "nice neighborhood" for all of those schools. Maybe one Cal Poly or Sacramento State.
07-25-2014 04:09 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #58
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-25-2014 02:13 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 04:02 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 03:49 PM)MJG Wrote:  The whole conference would not have to move up just six schools. NAU, ISU, NCU, UND, EWU and SUU would form a FCS football only conference. They would stay in the BSC for Olympic sports . These schools would benefit from having a future path to FBS. The different football groups still play just at the FBS school. The fee could be set bye the conference even scheduling the games.

Your concept is good. Your breakdown is suspect.

The staying FCS crowd would probably be: Northern Arizona, Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, Idaho State, and Weber State.

The Montanas, the States (Portland and Sac), and Eastern Washington and UND would move and you have to assume Idaho would be part of the mix. Current football associates Cal Poly and UC-Davis would take a long look.

I think North Arizona would make the move along with Montana and Montana State, Eastern Washington, Cal Poly, UC-Davis and Sacramento State.

Portland State is questionable. Idaho State would move up to join Idaho. Then add two Dakotas

West

North Arizona
Eastern Washington
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sarcramento State
Idaho


West

Montana
Montana State
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Northern Iowa
Idaho State

If you go fourteen, then add Portland State and Northern Colorado
Northern Arizona doesn't get much financial support from state government or fans, same with N Colo and Idaho St. Weber St and SUU have too many FBS schools in their state. An FBS move would be wildly unpopular politically in Utah.

Portland St has an FBS stadium and a will to go FBS. If they don't go FBS, they might as well drop football and sponsor men's soccer or lacrosse. Same with UCDavis and Cal Poly. FCS football doesn't have a long-term future at those schools.

Don't underestimate UND. Hockey funds the the athletics department to a large extent (250 k attendance), but expanding football makes sense so UND is not so dependent on one sport. A 300 m indoor track and football complex is going up now next to old Memorial Stadium. Add a visitor side and maybe even a roof, and we would meet FBS requirements with facilities that are on par or exceed many G5 schools.

E Wash has a stadium plan to go FBS. They long to latch on to Montana and Idaho as well as create an alternative to a long trip to Washington St among Spokanites.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2014 04:31 PM by NoDak.)
07-25-2014 04:11 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #59
RE: FCS conference to FBS
(07-25-2014 04:09 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  1. Again, why would the P5 want another lower-FBS conference? How does it benefit them? Maybe it desn't hurt them, but why would they work to make it happen?

2. People have made a lot of lists and typed a lot about how an FCS-FBS Big Sky split would work. But they always have Montana and Montana State grouped in with directionals and UC-Nowhere's. Montana's AD wrote up a study years ago on moving t FBS, and a big reason was that UM was percieved as a peer insitution of Eastern Washington and Southern Utah and Northern Arizona rather than other state flagships.

I think if there's a shakeup, it's not a mass FBS-FCS moveup. It's an FCS reoganization into a conference built around Montana and schools that Montana would want to line up with. Something like:
Great Northern Conference
Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, North Dakota State, SDSU, South Dakota, Idaho State, maybe Portland State, Seattle U, U of Denver. That would be a "nice neighborhood" for all of those schools. Maybe one Cal Poly or Sacramento State.
More G5's would reduce the costs associated with scheduling for the PAC12 and Big 10. They talk big about how their are not going to schedule FCS teams, but not scheduling them costs them a half million a year. Why does the PAC12 have games with the Big Sky scheduled out for 2020? It would be easier and cheaper for them to allow the Big Sky to move up. The Big Sky won't steal any of their recruits.


Montana is running the show and creating an FBS conference to their liking. That's why UND got added and its why Idaho got added. Montana needs California recruiting so that's why Cal Poly and UCDavis got added as affiliates. E Wash and Portland St are deemed necessary for the NW.

Montana could have moved to the WAC, but an end result of the WAC with Montana, Mont St, Idaho, NMSU, Lamar, Sam Houston, Texas St, and Jacksonville St was totally unacceptable to Montana. Montana wants a Montana-centric conference, not a Texas-centric one which would have happened with the WAC. The other Big Sky schools (other than Mont St) were simply not ready at that time (i.e. Calif schools were in deep budget cuts).
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2014 04:38 PM by NoDak.)
07-25-2014 04:24 PM
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bigsky1999 Offline
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Post: #60
RE: FCS conference to FBS
MJG, your post is interesting. I'm curious as to where you got the information on UC Davis being 72% funded for a stadium expansion? They only sell out about 2 games a year, and it's a small town.

I did find that they are building a new field hockey facility ($3.5M?), big softball upgrade ($2.5M?), and possibly adding lights to their baseball stadium. The field hockey addition will probably take pressure off of Aggie Stadium, so that helps with workouts. I also read where their chancellor is considering a 3rd campus in downtown Sacramento (the 2nd being their Med Center in Sacramento). Their football team did finish strong last year, but they are in desperate need of a QB. They open with Stanford this year and may get crushed, but they have played Boise State and Stanford well in the past.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2014 04:34 PM by bigsky1999.)
07-25-2014 04:31 PM
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