(09-18-2014 03:14 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:54 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 11:54 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  My proposal (which no one likes much around here) isn't quite ready to happen TODAY, but should be very attractive in the next five years.

The G5 should create their own playoff. They could make more money on a 7-game tournament (8 teams, 3 rounds) than they get from their measly appearance in an "access bowl" on the New Year's Six.

Round one--Friday and Saturday during Heisman/award week. These games would be very, very popular because they'd be the only games on Friday and Saturday...and they'd feature very solid (albeit, not P5) teams. Home game for high seeds. Schools are still in session so the crowds would be awesome.

Round two--Christmas Day. The "final 4" for the G5 playoff. Everybody is home. There are a few other events on TV, but it could become a tradition that sticks. G5-owned "bowls" for maximum revenue. Split most of that money among all conferences...4 participating teams get extra of course.

Championship game--The Friday between New Year's Day and the CFP championship game. Again, not much else on TV, so it would garner very strong ratings...and it'd be a great football game. Again, G5-owned "bowl."

ESPN has already shown a great interest in G5 rights (the MAC's contract for example...I laughed as a PSU fan while I watched PSU on the MAC network during our Akron game... :) ). They would pay handsomely.

An example for this year... (simply using current AP poll for top-4 seedings...just spit-balling the rest)
Friday Dec. 12
7pm--#8 UCF at #1 BYU
9:30pm--#7 Boise State at #2 ECU
Saturday Dec. 13
7pm--#6 Northern Illinois at #3 Marshall
9:30pm--# Memphis at #4 Cincy

Dec. 25
6pm--#1 BYU vs. #4 Cincy in Phoenix
9:30pm--#2 ECU vs. #3 Marshall in Orlando

January 9
9pm--#1 BYU vs. #2 ECU in Dallas

Realignment and expansion for the P5 can come and go...certain teams can move out, other programs can move in...but the G5 playoff can be a staple. Why not have "something" to play for, rather than just crumbs at the P5's table?

Noooooo!!!! A play-off would just reinforce the idea that the G5 is not really D1 FBS football. It screams that we are seperate and not part of the same division as the power conferences. Such a separate playoff is the exact OPPOSITE of what we need to do. What we need to do is more closely tie our post season to the P5 post season. Thus, I would be all for the G5 working on a "champions" bowl series like the one I outlined where some major ranked P5 schools are participants---

G5 #1 vs ranked at large----already exists as the G5 access bowl

G5 #2 vs #3-5 selection from a power conference--new G5 owned and operated bowl**

G5 #3 vs #3-5 selection from a power conference--new G5 owned and operated bowl**

G5 #4 vs G5 #5--new G5 owned and operated bowl**

**created by the G5


What I propose is just swapping out 3 of the new crappy bowls the G5 created and replacing them with upper-tier non-CFP bowls that are solid destinations for the G5 champions. Yes, it will cost us money to attract high quality ranked P5 opponents. But it will also make us money in the long run.

Right now, if your G5 conference champ doesn't make the access bowl, the typical G5 champion is looking at a very bleak post season destination. If we improve the post season destination and make it a nice payday for a #3-5 P5 school---then we make those bowls a big deal because a upper tier P5 schools will be going there. By having a post season destination that is important---then becoming a G5 champion is more important. That will increase the interest in ALL the G5 conference races. If you increase the interest in the G5 conference races---then you increase the value of those media rights.

@Attackcoog

What part of: we make less money, have the worst bowls, and about a 99.99% chance of not playing in "their" playoff do you not understand.... The term "G5" means "we are not like the P5." You and I have had this discussion before, and you seem to think this is fantasy football we’re talking about. If you would look at reality, “we are separate and not part of… the power conferences.” Out of all the American fans, I respect you the most and even nominated you to be a moderator. However, as very intelligent as you are... you baffle me with your logic that if the G5 attempts to have a playoff, it will cause a further separation in perception between the P5 and us. How? We would be playing to determine the best G5 school to play one of them. Furthermore, the purpose is to do what the P5 refuse to do: Decide who gets our only access spot on the field—not by a committee. Nevertheless, I will admit that the term “playoff” is not the best one to use. Instead, a "play-in" tournament is a more appropriate term in my opinion….

In closing, I still respect you a lot and hope that you one day become a moderator……

Thanks for the kind words. Its nice to see civility isn't dead around here. Trust me, I get it. The gap between the G5 and P5 is growing. My personal opinion is schools have about a decade--maybe two--to try to make it into what will become the new upper division of football (d4).

My thoughts echo CommuterBob's to an extent---I didn't see anything about getting the access bowl as a prize in the proposal. That said, I would be interested in a single play-in game for the top two ranked G5--if the reward was access to the actual playoff (not an access bowl). ArkStfan said a similar proposal (for a BCS bowl) was offered to the non-AQ conferences during the BCS era but was stymied because CUSA and the MW wouldn't accept it (they both were more interested in acheiving straight up AQ access). I think tossing that offer aside was a mistake.

What I believe is football life for those G5 schools left behind when D4 hits will be grim. Thus, my feeling is that the G5 is best off doing ANYTHING it can to tie its post season to the P5 post season.

If it costs us money to pay P5 teams to be in our biggest bowls---so be it. The key is to make the G5 post season relevant for its champions and playing in a big bowl vs ranked P5 opponents does just that. If the champ of the ACC played in Birmigham vs a 6-6 SEC team, the ACC championship race isn't nearly as interesting to America. If America knows the AAC champ is going to play a ranked team from the P5 in a big "signature" bowl---the question of who the AAC will send to that bowl becomes far more interesting to the casual fan. Your post season destination gives the conference race context---and the G5 has no decent post season destinations. That's the key to fixing the G5 value issue in my opinion.

If you separate in any way from the top level of football---you become invisible to the American public. You see that truth in FCS football. Nobody cares if Sam Houston State wins the FCS playoff. But if Sam Houston State is in the Final Four of the NCAA basketball tournament---its a HUGE national story. To stay relevant in any way---the G5 needs to stay tied to the P5 post season. To stay relevant in any way, a G5 conference champ must have a meaningful post season destination. Otherwise---what does it matter if you win the AAC---the champ is just going to play in the same type of generic Birmingham/BocaRaton type bowl as the 5th place finisher in the AAC.

Look, its just my opinion---but I think the G5 really needs to be investing money in their post season. Yes, it will cost money at first, but I think over a period of years it will elevate the G5 and increase their intrinsic media value. That is the one way I can see them reducing the huge financial gap that exists with the P5 (a gap that will continue to grow at a faster and faster rate due to conference networks). Frankly, we in the AAC have said we want to become more like the power conferences. Well, we are the one conference that can easily elevate a bowl by investing in it. We have a 100 million dollar war chest. All we would have to do is set aside 5 million for that purpose, and place 1 million of our CFP earnings per year for the next 6 years into that fund. After 6 years, when it is once again time to renegotiate bowl ties, we would have an 11 million dollar fund to beef up the pay out of the conference owned Miami Beach Bowl and to provide it the financial security to attract a solid P5 opponent.

Well, then why don't the G5 just become FCS. With then nearly 185 schools in the division there are more than enough fans and students who attend colleges at that level. They already have a 24 team tournament. The at-larges become auto-bid for each G5 conference.
Dub FCS as the real colligate football and the P5 will be view as semi-pro and then their fan interest will fall greatly as we all know the Semi-pro isn't as support as well as college or the NFL.

What's the sales pitch to the G5 schools for this "alliance"?

"you know how you're already treated as a second class citizen of the FBS by being label a G5 school? Well how would you like it if we went and divided the G5 into further subsets so your school can be minimized even further? How does that sound to you?"

Sounds great, sign me up!

Your "we'd become irrelevant argument" has a few flaws...

To make an apples-to-pears comparison, look at CBB. There are PLENTY of schools not in the P5 that are relevant in CBB. Everyone knows Creighton, SDSU, Butler, VCU are strong basketball entities. Likewise, plenty of college football fans know how great the 8 teams I mentioned above are at CFB. The marginal sports fan might not watch...but the four games I mentioned for a quarterfinal above would get PLENTY of love nationally. Your "G5 would become D-II argument" is a an apples-to-oranges comparison because very few people in CFB care about Sam Houston St. and McNeese St. and etc. They've never been major football programs.

Your G5 bowl idea...so it'd look like this in reality.
#1 BYU in access bowl vs. worst P5 access team...let's say #14 Wisconsin this year.
#2 ECU vs. #13 9-3 LSU in your G5 bowl
#3 Marshall vs. #19 8-4 Oklahoma State in your G5 bowl
#4 Cincy vs. #5 Memphis

And what exactly are you playing for? Chest-thumping rights? "We won 2 games against P5 schools...GO G5!"...not great p5 schools, mind you...just middle of the pack ones.

Make your money, take care of your teams, build your own product. G5 teams have won a grand total of how many national titles in history? G5 teams have been to how many BCS bowls (with a decent record, granted) proportionate to their numbers? It's like a 1% entry rate into the BCS bowls...G5 IS ITS OWN LEVEL, if you choose to live in reality. (And don't start crying about Wake Forest and Iowa State and Washington State...)

(09-18-2014 10:50 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  Your "we'd become irrelevant argument" has a few flaws...

To make an apples-to-pears comparison, look at CBB. There are PLENTY of schools not in the P5 that are relevant in CBB. Everyone knows Creighton, SDSU, Butler, VCU are strong basketball entities. Likewise, plenty of college football fans know how great the 8 teams I mentioned above are at CFB. The marginal sports fan might not watch...but the four games I mentioned for a quarterfinal above would get PLENTY of love nationally. Your "G5 would become D-II argument" is a an apples-to-oranges comparison because very few people in CFB care about Sam Houston St. and McNeese St. and etc. They've never been major football programs.

Your G5 bowl idea...so it'd look like this in reality.
#1 BYU in access bowl vs. worst P5 access team...let's say #14 Wisconsin this year.
#2 ECU vs. #13 9-3 LSU in your G5 bowl
#3 Marshall vs. #19 8-4 Oklahoma State in your G5 bowl
#4 Cincy vs. #5 Memphis

And what exactly are you playing for? Chest-thumping rights? "We won 2 games against P5 schools...GO G5!"...not great p5 schools, mind you...just middle of the pack ones.

Make your money, take care of your teams, build your own product. G5 teams have won a grand total of how many national titles in history? G5 teams have been to how many BCS bowls (with a decent record, granted) proportionate to their numbers? It's like a 1% entry rate into the BCS bowls...G5 IS ITS OWN LEVEL, if you choose to live in reality. (And don't start crying about Wake Forest and Iowa State and Washington State...)

Point by point---the basketball comparison is a good one and has some validity--but it's slightly off. I agree, an NCAA final four of Creightin, Butler, SDSU, and VCU would be widely viewed by the public. But it would be watched because its the national championship for the highest level of basketball. I don't think you would find nearly the same ratings if the same quartet was playing for the NIT or CIT championship. I think that's a better comparison for how a G5 playoff would be viewed.

As for an illustration of how my proposed G5 bowl series might look--it would look a bit different than you indicate. It would be a coalition of the G5 CONFERENCES for the G5 champs--so no Indys would be involved.

#1 is access bowl vs at large G5

#2 G5 champ Marshall vs 9-3 LSU

#3 G5 champ NIU vs 8-4 Oklahoma St

#4 G5 champ UL-L vs #5 G5 champ Fresno

It's not the Sugar Bowl, but it's a hell of a lot better than the Beef O'Brady Bowl vs a 6-6 Pitt. It doesn't matter if it's just for pride and not a national championship. Before the organized BCS era, the Rose Bowl often had no national championship implications--I didn't hear anyone saying it's not worth playing the Rose Bowl if the national championship isnt involved. Hell, the Pac10 and B1G actually preferred to have the traditional Rose Bowl and fought efforts to create a system of team trading that would create national championship game (the early Bowl Coalition).

Your final paragraphs more or less say---'build your own product'. That's exactly what I'm suggesting we do. Many of the G5 have been playing football for 50 or 100 years at the highest level. They helped to create the existing FBS product. Where the G5 as a group has faltered is in not building solid signiture post season bowls for our champions. All I'm suggesting is that we create our own versions of bowls like the Rose or Sugar.

For now, entry into the actual playoff is a long shot, but once the playoff is expanded to 8---I suspect the G5, IF they can survive and thrive in the CFP era, will have a seat at that table. But to get there--the G5 must survive. The key, as you point out, is building our fan bases. I think creating an attainable post season that offers showcase games that are part of the highest level of football is one way to build interest in those G5 conference races. I do not think that doing something that appears to be a new FBS-AA playoff will draw anymore interest than the CIT basketball tournament. JMHO--but I think the G5 is better off with a "Champions Bowl Series" featuring games against LSU and Oklahoma than some playoff designed to determine the 66th best team in the nation.

(09-19-2014 12:00 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  For now, entry into the actual playoff is a long shot, but once the playoff is expanded to 8---I suspect the G5, IF they can survive and thrive in the CFP era, will have a seat at that table. But to get there--the G5 must survive. The key, as you point out, is building our fan bases. I think creating an attainable post season that offers showcase games that are part of the highest level of football is one way to build interest in those G5 conference races. I do not think that doing something that appears to be a new FBS-AA playoff will draw anymore interest than the CIT basketball tournament. JMHO--but I think the G5 is better off with a "Champions Bowl Series" featuring games against LSU and Oklahoma than some playoff designed to determine the 66th best team in the nation.

This is DEFINITELY a strong reason to STAY in the D1 with one league (of 120 or so teams). If a seat at the 8-team table opens up for the G5, then it's DEFINITELY worth it. It's not much of a shot (just 1 in 8) but at least it's a shot...something all of those undefeated teams never got from 2004's Utah on.

My fear (for the G5) is that they won't remain sustainable in the next 12 years. Rather than take aggressive action, the G5 will try to tread water longer and longer and longer...until the best of the G5 doesn't even get in the same conversation as the top 8 teams among the P5. I really don't think the P5 will cave into public pressure for an 8-team playoff for at least 12 years.

The only "G5 Alliance" that I think should be examined is to see what type of TV contract can be done for the whole G5...something similiar to what the of CFA old was. If it can be better the group as a whole then great, otherwise, each conference should stay with their own TV contract they are able to get.

Make your money, take care of your teams, build your own product. G5 teams have won a grand total of how many national titles in history? G5 teams have been to how many BCS bowls (with a decent record, granted) proportionate to their numbers? It's like a 1% entry rate into the BCS bowls...G5 IS ITS OWN LEVEL, if you choose to live in reality. (And don't start crying about Wake Forest and Iowa State and Washington State...)
[/quote]

This mindset is what I am so tired of hearing. Its like me asking, "how many CUSA conference titles has Penn State ever won?" That's right zero so apparently you could not compete in CUSA. G5 are not allowed to participate in the National Championship game. If G5 were allowed then recruiting would be better, more money paid to the schools in the conference, basically a level playing field and that's exactly the goal of P5 want to demolish. More schools in contention for the championship game makes wider dispersion of moneys, and that is a no go for the P5.

(09-19-2014 07:51 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  The only "G5 Alliance" that I think should be examined is to see what type of TV contract can be done for the whole G5...something similiar to what the of CFA old was. If it can be better the group as a whole then great, otherwise, each conference should stay with their own TV contract they are able to get.

I doubt you ever see that again. Schools in the higher paid G5 conferences are going to be much less interested in the idea than schools in the lower paid conferences. I could see them working together in creating a post season and I could see them working together to create a shared G5 network. A G5 conference network, where each G5 conference contributes a handful of games, could create a new constantly growing income stream for the G5 as well as provide a new national stage for the non-contract conferences with good time slots and supportive programming (like a G5 version of college Game Day).

This is an interesting discussion. Has anyone done the analysis on what a fully regionalized G5 would look like if they just simply regionalized to save money?

Quote:Noooooo!!!! A play-off would just reinforce the idea that the G5 is not really D1 FBS football. It screams that we are seperate and not part of the same division as the power conferences. Such a separate playoff is the exact OPPOSITE of what we need to do.

OKAY, LET'S MODEL IT AFTER NCAA BASKETBALL MULTIPLE TOURNEYS, (48 Teams):

NATIONAL-CHAMPIONSHIP PLAYOFF (8 Teams):
- Must be a Conference Champion OR ranked in Top 8
- Limit 2 Per Conference (Conference Races are Pre-Playoffs)
- Top 16 G5 will be included (*IF Top Ranked G5 won their conference)
- Played in Signature Bowls

NATIONAL-ELITE PLAYOFF (8 Teams):
- AUTO-QUALIFIER: Conference Champs Who Did NOT Make National-Champ Playoff (9+ FBS wins or Ranked Top 25)
- Independents Ranked in Top 16
- Limit 2 Per Conference
- Must otherwise be highest ranked

NATIONAL-SHOWDOWN PLAYOFF (8 Teams):
- Must have Top-Ranked Remaining G5 Team

P5-G5-SHOWDOWN-PLAYOFF (8 Teams):
- Must include Top Remaining 4 G5 Teams

WINNING-TEAM PLAYOFF (8 Teams):
- Any Remaining G5 Conf Champ AUTO-QUALIFIES
- 9+ Wins AUTO-QUALIFIES (a 2nd FCS Win counts as 8)
- 8+ Wins Required (a 2nd FCS Win counts as 7)
- Must include 2 G5 Teams

BEST-OF-THE-REST PLAYOFF (8 Teams):
- 2nd Place in a Conference AUTO-QUALIFIES *IF* 7+ FBS Wins
- 8+ FBS Wins AUTO-QUALIFIES
- Must include 2 G5 Teams

----------
How Would This Look Last Year?
----------

NATIONAL-CHAMPIONSHIP PLAYOFF:
#1 Florida State (13-0) vs #8 Oklahoma (10-2)
#4 Michigan State (12-1) vs #5 Stanford (11-2)

#2 Auburn (12-1) vs #7 Ohio State (12-1)
#3 Alabama (11-1) vs #6 Baylor (11-1)

NATIONAL-ELITE PLAYOFF:
#1 Missouri (11-2) vs #8 *Bowling Green (10-3)
#4 Clemson (10-2) vs #5 *UCF (11-1)

#2 South Carolina (10-2) vs #7 *Rice (10-3)
#3 Oregon (10-2) vs #6 *Fresno State (11-1)

NATIONAL-SHOWDOWN PLAYOFF:
#1 Oklahoma St (10-2) vs #8 *Northern Illinois (12-1)
#4 UCLA (9-3) vs #5 Louisville (11-1)

#2 Arizona St (10-3) vs #7 Texas A&M (8-4)
#3 LSU (9-3) vs #6 Wisconsin (9-3)

P5-G5-SHOWDOWN PLAYOFF:
#1 Georgia (8-4) vs #8 Utah State (8-5)
#4 Notre Dame (8-4) vs #5 Ball State (10-2)

#2 Duke (10-3) vs #7 ECU (9-3)
#3 USC (9-4) vs #6 Marshall (10-3)

WINNING-TEAM PLAYOFF:
#1 Miami-FL (9-3) vs #8 *LA-Lafayette (8-4)
#4 Texas (8-4) vs #5 Nebraska (8-4)

#2 Cincinnati (9-3) vs #7 BYU (8-4)
#3 Iowa (8-4) vs #6 Washington (9-3)

BEST-OF-THE-REST PLAYOFF:
#1 Vanderbilt (8-4) vs #8 *North Texas (8-4)
#4 Kansas St (7-5) vs #5 Arizona (7-5)

#2 Minnesota (8-4) vs #7 Houston (8-4)
#3 Virginia Teach (8-4) vs #6 Boise State (8-4)

* = Auto-Qualified

My format would be based like this. Every school schedule 10 games (3 OOC and 7 in conference plus 1 for championship week) The eleventh game of the schedule would be championship weekend, but to ensure everyone gets 12 games your division in your conference plays your counterpart in the other division. So if your conference breaks down by East and West..... 1 East would play 1 West....etc etc etc. That final home game would alternate each year between east and west. (Its not ideal...but then everyone knows if that game is a home game or not)

They should do a 12 team play off. Top four conference champions get a bye based on conference rank vs other conferences. If your not a conference champion you don't deserve a bye...I don't care your ranking. (Plus it gives some conference pride which is fun)

Then the next three conference champions get a auto bid for the play off. Then five at large bids. Independent schools are eligible for at large bid.

First round highest ranked team hosts the play off game.
Second round... Highest ranked team gets to play lowest ranked remaining team at home.
Third round would be a a neutral site
Championship game at a neutral site.

Bowl selection committee for the rest of the post season "deserving" schools.

Challenges I see for proposal:

1. Need to ensure that the OOC games are some what fair.
2. We need games on the schedule in OOC that will pit conferences vs each other.

Maybe every team must have 1 OOC from the G5 and one from the P5. Just a idea...don't really know how to solve these problems. Short of assigning future games...which takes autonomy away from schools.

(09-18-2014 03:36 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 03:25 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 03:14 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:54 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 11:54 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  My proposal (which no one likes much around here) isn't quite ready to happen TODAY, but should be very attractive in the next five years.

The G5 should create their own playoff. They could make more money on a 7-game tournament (8 teams, 3 rounds) than they get from their measly appearance in an "access bowl" on the New Year's Six.

Round one--Friday and Saturday during Heisman/award week. These games would be very, very popular because they'd be the only games on Friday and Saturday...and they'd feature very solid (albeit, not P5) teams. Home game for high seeds. Schools are still in session so the crowds would be awesome.

Round two--Christmas Day. The "final 4" for the G5 playoff. Everybody is home. There are a few other events on TV, but it could become a tradition that sticks. G5-owned "bowls" for maximum revenue. Split most of that money among all conferences...4 participating teams get extra of course.

Championship game--The Friday between New Year's Day and the CFP championship game. Again, not much else on TV, so it would garner very strong ratings...and it'd be a great football game. Again, G5-owned "bowl."

ESPN has already shown a great interest in G5 rights (the MAC's contract for example...I laughed as a PSU fan while I watched PSU on the MAC network during our Akron game... :) ). They would pay handsomely.

An example for this year... (simply using current AP poll for top-4 seedings...just spit-balling the rest)
Friday Dec. 12
7pm--#8 UCF at #1 BYU
9:30pm--#7 Boise State at #2 ECU
Saturday Dec. 13
7pm--#6 Northern Illinois at #3 Marshall
9:30pm--# Memphis at #4 Cincy

Dec. 25
6pm--#1 BYU vs. #4 Cincy in Phoenix
9:30pm--#2 ECU vs. #3 Marshall in Orlando

January 9
9pm--#1 BYU vs. #2 ECU in Dallas

Realignment and expansion for the P5 can come and go...certain teams can move out, other programs can move in...but the G5 playoff can be a staple. Why not have "something" to play for, rather than just crumbs at the P5's table?

Noooooo!!!! A play-off would just reinforce the idea that the G5 is not really D1 FBS football. It screams that we are seperate and not part of the same division as the power conferences. Such a separate playoff is the exact OPPOSITE of what we need to do. What we need to do is more closely tie our post season to the P5 post season. Thus, I would be all for the G5 working on a "champions" bowl series like the one I outlined where some major ranked P5 schools are participants---

G5 #1 vs ranked at large----already exists as the G5 access bowl

G5 #2 vs #3-5 selection from a power conference--new G5 owned and operated bowl**

G5 #3 vs #3-5 selection from a power conference--new G5 owned and operated bowl**

G5 #4 vs G5 #5--new G5 owned and operated bowl**

**created by the G5


What I propose is just swapping out 3 of the new crappy bowls the G5 created and replacing them with upper-tier non-CFP bowls that are solid destinations for the G5 champions. Yes, it will cost us money to attract high quality ranked P5 opponents. But it will also make us money in the long run.

Right now, if your G5 conference champ doesn't make the access bowl, the typical G5 champion is looking at a very bleak post season destination. If we improve the post season destination and make it a nice payday for a #3-5 P5 school---then we make those bowls a big deal because a upper tier P5 schools will be going there. By having a post season destination that is important---then becoming a G5 champion is more important. That will increase the interest in ALL the G5 conference races. If you increase the interest in the G5 conference races---then you increase the value of those media rights.

@Attackcoog

What part of: we make less money, have the worst bowls, and about a 99.99% chance of not playing in "their" playoff do you not understand.... The term "G5" means "we are not like the P5." You and I have had this discussion before, and you seem to think this is fantasy football we’re talking about. If you would look at reality, “we are separate and not part of… the power conferences.” Out of all the American fans, I respect you the most and even nominated you to be a moderator. However, as very intelligent as you are... you baffle me with your logic that if the G5 attempts to have a playoff, it will cause a further separation in perception between the P5 and us. How? We would be playing to determine the best G5 school to play one of them. Furthermore, the purpose is to do what the P5 refuse to do: Decide who gets our only access spot on the field—not by a committee. Nevertheless, I will admit that the term “playoff” is not the best one to use. Instead, a "play-in" tournament is a more appropriate term in my opinion….

In closing, I still respect you a lot and hope that you one day become a moderator……

But that's not what is proposed above. What's proposed above is a playoff to determine the G5 champion for the sake of naming a champion, not to determine who gets the Access bowl spot.

But even so, you would have the G5 champion have to play in 3 extra games to determine who plays in the Access Bowl? That's three more games worth of injuries, fatigue, and expense. It would be a huge disadvantage to the P5 team it would play in the Access Bowl - even more so than it may be talent-wise already. I don't use this often, but it really is appropriate here:

Read post #33 where I state, "One less game might have to be taken off each G5 school’s schedule to make this playoff proposal work, but I think the idea is worth it….." However, your injuries point is a very valid point, which I agree makes the idea less practical.

Btw... You are the other member I nominated (2 was the max) to be a moderator.... <=back at =>you....

You are still suggesting subtracting one game to add three games, except for the 55 teams that don't make the playoff who will just have one game subtracted. All of this just to determine who gets to go to the Access Bowl, which is something the G5 teams already have. It seems like a lot of effort for very little gain. The idea of creating lucrative ($5M+ per team) Bowl games matching G5 champions and quality, ranked P5 opponents makes much more sense and is would be much easier to make happen.

(10-01-2014 05:41 AM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 03:36 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 03:25 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 03:14 PM)Underdog Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:54 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Noooooo!!!! A play-off would just reinforce the idea that the G5 is not really D1 FBS football. It screams that we are seperate and not part of the same division as the power conferences. Such a separate playoff is the exact OPPOSITE of what we need to do. What we need to do is more closely tie our post season to the P5 post season. Thus, I would be all for the G5 working on a "champions" bowl series like the one I outlined where some major ranked P5 schools are participants---

G5 #1 vs ranked at large----already exists as the G5 access bowl

G5 #2 vs #3-5 selection from a power conference--new G5 owned and operated bowl**

G5 #3 vs #3-5 selection from a power conference--new G5 owned and operated bowl**

G5 #4 vs G5 #5--new G5 owned and operated bowl**

**created by the G5


What I propose is just swapping out 3 of the new crappy bowls the G5 created and replacing them with upper-tier non-CFP bowls that are solid destinations for the G5 champions. Yes, it will cost us money to attract high quality ranked P5 opponents. But it will also make us money in the long run.

Right now, if your G5 conference champ doesn't make the access bowl, the typical G5 champion is looking at a very bleak post season destination. If we improve the post season destination and make it a nice payday for a #3-5 P5 school---then we make those bowls a big deal because a upper tier P5 schools will be going there. By having a post season destination that is important---then becoming a G5 champion is more important. That will increase the interest in ALL the G5 conference races. If you increase the interest in the G5 conference races---then you increase the value of those media rights.

@Attackcoog

What part of: we make less money, have the worst bowls, and about a 99.99% chance of not playing in "their" playoff do you not understand.... The term "G5" means "we are not like the P5." You and I have had this discussion before, and you seem to think this is fantasy football we’re talking about. If you would look at reality, “we are separate and not part of… the power conferences.” Out of all the American fans, I respect you the most and even nominated you to be a moderator. However, as very intelligent as you are... you baffle me with your logic that if the G5 attempts to have a playoff, it will cause a further separation in perception between the P5 and us. How? We would be playing to determine the best G5 school to play one of them. Furthermore, the purpose is to do what the P5 refuse to do: Decide who gets our only access spot on the field—not by a committee. Nevertheless, I will admit that the term “playoff” is not the best one to use. Instead, a "play-in" tournament is a more appropriate term in my opinion….

In closing, I still respect you a lot and hope that you one day become a moderator……

But that's not what is proposed above. What's proposed above is a playoff to determine the G5 champion for the sake of naming a champion, not to determine who gets the Access bowl spot.

But even so, you would have the G5 champion have to play in 3 extra games to determine who plays in the Access Bowl? That's three more games worth of injuries, fatigue, and expense. It would be a huge disadvantage to the P5 team it would play in the Access Bowl - even more so than it may be talent-wise already. I don't use this often, but it really is appropriate here:

Read post #33 where I state, "One less game might have to be taken off each G5 school’s schedule to make this playoff proposal work, but I think the idea is worth it….." However, your injuries point is a very valid point, which I agree makes the idea less practical.

Btw... You are the other member I nominated (2 was the max) to be a moderator.... <=back at =>you....

You are still suggesting subtracting one game to add three games, except for the 55 teams that don't make the playoff who will just have one game subtracted. All of this just to determine who gets to go to the Access Bowl, which is something the G5 teams already have. It seems like a lot of effort for very little gain. The idea of creating lucrative ($5M+ per team) Bowl games matching G5 champions and quality, ranked P5 opponents makes much more sense and is would be much easier to make happen.

You make a very valid point….. However, you are not considering the possible long term benefits of having a “play-in” tournament. Yes, I admit that there are risks involved in such an endeavor. Nevertheless, is there a better way to create maximum interest in the one access spot that the G5 have? Do we really want a committee that cares nothing about the only spot the G5 have to decide which school should get it? Therefore, considering what has occurred so far during this season, think about a likely undefeated Marshall team eventually playing ECU in an all or nothing G5 Access Spot game. In my opinion, if college football fans embrace this risky endeavor to take FBS to another level (while demonstrating the uselessness of having a selection committee), I think the CFP would eventually expand to include one or possibly two G5 schools along with additional P5 schools….