simply both ihese schools don't have the financial capital to build a stadium. Both schools made short term financial decisions at the time, that made sense but wasn't strategic.
1) Pitt' classic stadium, needed work, university also needed a new basketball arena and limited land area on the campus. SOlution focus on campus facility for basketball and work a fantastic deal with the steelers on the new stadium. Pitt did not need to build a practice facility- share with the steelers, share medical support and share a NFL stadium. and no maintenance costs. However, look now. no connection with the campus and students. Rhetorical question whats the price for connection to campus. My guess is if Pitt went for renovation of the old stadium, there would not be a new arena for basketball and they still wouldn't have the dollars for indoor practice facility.
2. Miami never did have an on campus facility but orange bowl was close and cozy but needed work. City was not supportive of any work on the orange bowl, they were focused on professional baseball and professional nil arena downtown. During the negotiations, with the orange bowl, Miami could have volunteered to buy the orange bowl, but was faced with huge capital project with $$$$ they didn't have and didn't have the $$$ for maintenance and operations. THey also needed a new arena for basketball to be in the big east and now the ACC. if they blew the financial resources on the new stadium they probably would not have afforded the basketball arena, and maybe even not big east or acc membership.
I like on campus facilities, but when our ad's make these proposals, folks really need to challenge them,. ARe they just working the bottom line or are they looking at the strategic long term needs of the institution????
(09-28-2014 06:16 AM)firmbizzle Wrote: Miami will be getting an MLS team in downtown. I'm sure that most games will be played there.
(09-25-2014 06:46 AM)Wolfman Wrote: I don't see sharing or having an off-campus stadium as an issue. Both play in NFL stadiums that are roughly 30 minutes from campus. Most fans don't come from campus anyway. As long as the schools provide access for students it should not be an issue.
As Doc noted, it could be a recruiting advantage. In any case, I don't know that this is the time to drop $200-$300 million on a stadium.
Both Miami and Pitt face competition from multiple pro franchises. Plus there is the 300lb gorilla - TV.
30 minutes from campus? What are you jogging there? Heinz Field is ~3 miles as the crow flies, and ~4 miles by vehicle from the Petersen Events Center on Pitt's campus. That's just about the identical distance as, say, Reynolds Coliseum to Carter Finley.
Sun Life is 20 miles by car from Coral Gables. Big difference.
Me jog? That is funny!
I did a Google maps search at the time. I don't remember the exact time or the starting point Google came up with. I think it was around 20 minutes so I rounded it up to "roughly 30 minutes."
Carter Finley is a good example. It is on-campus and with light traffic it is a 10-12 minute drive from Reynolds. If there is traffic, or you get stopped by a lot of lights, it could take "roughly 30 minutes." If you happen to live in one of the dorms on Method Road it is ~2 miles. I think you could walk there in less time than it takes to drive.
(09-25-2014 06:46 AM)Wolfman Wrote: I don't see sharing or having an off-campus stadium as an issue. Both play in NFL stadiums that are roughly 30 minutes from campus. Most fans don't come from campus anyway. As long as the schools provide access for students it should not be an issue.
As Doc noted, it could be a recruiting advantage. In any case, I don't know that this is the time to drop $200-$300 million on a stadium.
Both Miami and Pitt face competition from multiple pro franchises. Plus there is the 300lb gorilla - TV.
30 minutes from campus? What are you jogging there? Heinz Field is ~3 miles as the crow flies, and ~4 miles by vehicle from the Petersen Events Center on Pitt's campus. That's just about the identical distance as, say, Reynolds Coliseum to Carter Finley.
Sun Life is 20 miles by car from Coral Gables. Big difference.
Very true. Even tonight against Duke we had just under 45k in attendance.
Tonight's paid attendance: 44,559. I'll estimate there are 28,763 people in the stands.
-- Matt Porter @mattyports
the operative word is paid ...
FUN WITH NUMBERS
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2014 01:41 PM by green.)
No, not "paid" attendance. I don't know where these so-called sports writers get these ideas. Miami announces how many tickets are beeped in at the gate. I have friends in the ticket office of the AD that know how it works...
(09-28-2014 06:16 AM)firmbizzle Wrote: Miami will be getting an MLS team in downtown. I'm sure that most games will be played there.
After studying the idea for months, David Beckham’s group and UM have mutually decided not to pursue the possibility of having the UM football team play in Beckham’s proposed soccer stadium
The idea of a joint football/soccer facility became too complicated, with too many logistical issues such as parking. Plus, UM has 18 years left on its Sun Life lease, and Stephen Ross strongly opposed letting the Hurricanes out of that, though UM never reached the point of asking.
Beckham plans to build a 20,000-seat stadium ... UM told Beckham's group that the stadium would need to be at least 40,000 seats for the Hurricanes to consider playing there. Ultimately, though, feasibility issues beyond capacity caused the sides to decide not to pursue it further.
-- Miami Herald
(09-28-2014 01:50 PM)Ole Blue Wrote: No, not "paid" attendance. I don't know where these so-called sports writers get these ideas. Miami announces how many tickets are beeped in at the gate. I have friends in the ticket office of the AD that know how it works...
Attendance tonight: 44,559. That's what they said, anyway.
-- Tim Reynolds @ByTimReynolds
the palm beach post & associated press have no axe to grind ...
a friendly word of advice ...
it's called puffing ...
all teams do it to create the illusion of popularity ...
(09-25-2014 06:46 AM)Wolfman Wrote: I don't see sharing or having an off-campus stadium as an issue. Both play in NFL stadiums that are roughly 30 minutes from campus. Most fans don't come from campus anyway. As long as the schools provide access for students it should not be an issue.
As Doc noted, it could be a recruiting advantage. In any case, I don't know that this is the time to drop $200-$300 million on a stadium.
Both Miami and Pitt face competition from multiple pro franchises. Plus there is the 300lb gorilla - TV.
30 minutes from campus? What are you jogging there? Heinz Field is ~3 miles as the crow flies, and ~4 miles by vehicle from the Petersen Events Center on Pitt's campus. That's just about the identical distance as, say, Reynolds Coliseum to Carter Finley.
Sun Life is 20 miles by car from Coral Gables. Big difference.
Me jog? That is funny!
I did a Google maps search at the time. I don't remember the exact time or the starting point Google came up with. I think it was around 20 minutes so I rounded it up to "roughly 30 minutes."
Carter Finley is a good example. It is on-campus and with light traffic it is a 10-12 minute drive from Reynolds. If there is traffic, or you get stopped by a lot of lights, it could take "roughly 30 minutes." If you happen to live in one of the dorms on Method Road it is ~2 miles. I think you could walk there in less time than it takes to drive.
Oakland to the North Shore can be a 10 minute drive up to 45 minutes... Really depends on traffic and the route one takes.
(09-25-2014 06:46 AM)Wolfman Wrote: I don't see sharing or having an off-campus stadium as an issue. Both play in NFL stadiums that are roughly 30 minutes from campus. Most fans don't come from campus anyway. As long as the schools provide access for students it should not be an issue.
As Doc noted, it could be a recruiting advantage. In any case, I don't know that this is the time to drop $200-$300 million on a stadium.
Both Miami and Pitt face competition from multiple pro franchises. Plus there is the 300lb gorilla - TV.
30 minutes from campus? What are you jogging there? Heinz Field is ~3 miles as the crow flies, and ~4 miles by vehicle from the Petersen Events Center on Pitt's campus. That's just about the identical distance as, say, Reynolds Coliseum to Carter Finley.
Sun Life is 20 miles by car from Coral Gables. Big difference.
Very true. Even tonight against Duke we had just under 45k in attendance.
Overhead shots looked under 50% capacity. Like 25 or 30k.
(09-28-2014 01:50 PM)Ole Blue Wrote: No, not "paid" attendance. I don't know where these so-called sports writers get these ideas. Miami announces how many tickets are beeped in at the gate. I have friends in the ticket office of the AD that know how it works...
Attendance tonight: 44,559. That's what they said, anyway.
-- Tim Reynolds @ByTimReynolds
the palm beach post & associated press have no axe to grind ...
a friendly word of advice ...
it's called puffing ...
all teams do it to create the illusion of popularity ...
BLOWING SMOKE UP YOUR ASS
FSU is apparently announcing actual attendance, not tickets sold, since both home games so far were sellouts but announced attendance was below capacity. I guess Miami fans just like having others put things out up their butts.
The renovation would add more seats closer to the field while removing upper-level seats, bringing the stadium’s current capacity of about 76,000 down to 65,000
Most of the construction to Sun Life Stadium will occur in the 2015 and 2016 offseasons. Game-goers this fall will notice no real changes, but a year from now, the entire bowl will be replaced, with the old seats gone. Then in the spring and summer of 2016, the canopy will come on and new scoreboards will come in.
“When we get done, it’s going to be tantamount to a new stadium,” owner Stephen Ross said.
-- Miami Herald
U got paid an extra $5M a year to move uptown ...
momma didn't raise no dummy ...
opulence on someone else's dime ...
(09-28-2014 08:21 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote: Oakland to the North Shore can be a 10 minute drive up to 45 minutes... Really depends on traffic and the route one takes.
I actually drove from Pitt's campus to Heinz for the first two home games (something I don't typically do). Leaving around two hours prior to the kick, it took me less than 10 minutes to get to Heinz (where my car was next to the stadium) and probably 15 mins total to get parked in my Red lot spot and start unloading the beer coolers from my trunk.
It certainly helps to know the best routes. But unless you are going at rush hour, which would never happen...well maybe for a Thursday night game...I can't see it taking 45 mins. In rush hour, I'm probably not going down the Blvd where you'd get tied up in traffic trying to get over to the tunnels. Instead I'd likely leave campus from the north, go down Polish Hill, up Liberty in the strip and over the McCullough Bridge, down East Ohio St, and around the Commons.
(This post was last modified: 09-29-2014 02:56 PM by CrazyPaco.)
(09-28-2014 06:34 AM)Fburghokie Wrote: simply both ihese schools don't have the financial capital to build a stadium. Both schools made short term financial decisions at the time, that made sense but wasn't strategic.
1) Pitt' classic stadium, needed work, university also needed a new basketball arena and limited land area on the campus. SOlution focus on campus facility for basketball and work a fantastic deal with the steelers on the new stadium. Pitt did not need to build a practice facility- share with the steelers, share medical support and share a NFL stadium. and no maintenance costs. However, look now. no connection with the campus and students. Rhetorical question whats the price for connection to campus. My guess is if Pitt went for renovation of the old stadium, there would not be a new arena for basketball and they still wouldn't have the dollars for indoor practice facility.
I like on campus facilities, but when our ad's make these proposals, folks really need to challenge them,. ARe they just working the bottom line or are they looking at the strategic long term needs of the institution????
Strategic in what sense? From the point of a football program having a college as its subsidiary?
The deal to share Heinz jumpstarted a complete overhaul of all of Pitt's athletic facilities, which were collectively among the worst in all of Division 1 (not just FBS); projects that likely would still be lingering if Pitt was trying to raise $200 million or more (or go that amount into debt) to do an adequate overhaul of Pitt Stadium whose concrete superstructure was literally crumbling (and would have forced a much smaller basketball arena project to be built on the side of a hill that also has an underground mine fire smoldering beneath it). Because Pitt played ball politically, an athletic department that was losing tens of millions every year received $100 million in allocations freed up from the state for the Peterson Events Center, which would not have otherwise happened on that scale, if at all. An arena, that btw, included a much needed new student rec center and allowed the school to hold graduation ceremonies on campus for the first time in over 30 years. I'm not sure I'd be posting on this ACC message board right now if Pitt was any more "strategic".
And student attendance at football games is actually much better now despite being off campus. Chalk that up to a variety of factors, but this theorized lack of connection of students to football because they are now playing 4 miles from the Cathedral of Learning is no more than speculation derived independently of actual data. Overall attendance is the same, if not better, and actually up when normalized for wins per season. And there is a ton more pre-game tailgate activity around Heinz than there ever was around Pitt Stadium, as there was really only one surface lot and the top of one garage next to the stadium, and one other reasonably-sized surface lot within walking distance. The Steelers, Pirates, and Penguins playing off campus don't seem to diminish their connection to students (without preexisting allegiances). What matters is winning.
(This post was last modified: 09-29-2014 03:27 PM by CrazyPaco.)
I can understand the want of Miami to have a new stadium since they play so far away from not only campus but the population center, but why on Earth would Pitt want or need a new stadium when they play downtown in a great stadium, with easy access to the entire metro area with ample parking?
(09-30-2014 10:43 AM)adcorbett Wrote: I can understand the want of Miami to have a new stadium since they play so far away from not only campus (21mls) but the population center
The Miami metropolitan area includes Miami and nearby communities. The U.S. Office of Management and Budget designates the area the Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach, FL Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) used for statistical purposes by the United States Census Bureau and other entities. The OMB defines the MSA as comprising Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties—Florida's three most populous counties—
With 5,564,635 inhabitants as of the 2010 Census, the Miami metropolitan area is the most populous in Florida and in the Southeastern United States and the eighth-most populous in the United States.
-- wiki
sun life sits smack dab in the middle of 3 populous counties ...
with undergrad enrollment less than 10,000 ...
small, private U must rely on more than itself ...
![[Image: BykWf2SIEAAyXN3.jpg:large]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BykWf2SIEAAyXN3.jpg:large)
