(11-14-2014 12:59 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 12:55 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 12:53 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  Wichita State plays tonight folks. Tune in, then come back and let's discuss whether we have a shot or not.

we have a shot. but i would like to watch them anyway, they do ball and they are very very well coached. who do they play and what channel?

They play New Mexico State, a top 100 team, at 9 pm. ESPN3 is the listing at this point.

If you watch the game, look for Preston Laird on NMSU's bench. He is on staff as Special Assistant to the Head Coach.

(11-14-2014 01:26 PM)Mtyler Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 11:02 AM)Dale Wrote:  in March and fess up and post they were wrong being so upset about an exhibition game.

the uproar is not about this exhibition game
people are upset because....
pastner makes elite level pay with mediocre results
had 4 years with a top 5 recruiting class and won 2 NCAA tournament games
His teams frequently look lost on offense like there is no scheme
He never sticks to anything that he says they are committed to ie: the full court press
he has under achieved 4 of his past 5 seasons

Pastner is a great Human being that cannot be denied, but basketball coaches don't get paid to be great human beings. They get paid to get results on the court, and definitely when they make elite level pay as Pastner does. Look at the list below and honestly tell me that fans should not expect more than what Pastner has accomplished.

1 Mike Krzyzewski
$9,682,032 --
2 Rick Pitino
$5,758,338
3J ohn Calipari
$5,511,381
4 Bill Self
$4,960,763
5 Billy Donovan
$3,905,964
6Tom Izzo
$3,893,954
7Steve Alford (UCLA)
$3,473,973
8Thad Matta
$3,282,000
9Josh Pastner
$2,650,000
10Sean Miller
$2,627,806

Don't cry about Pastner's paycheck. First, you don't pay it. Second, it's there for a reason. It's there for the NEXT coach as much as the current coach. When Pastner leaves (Yes, he will leave sometime), the next coaching search will be that much more fruitful because Bowen can say "Well, we paid Josh Pastner X million dollars. Money will not be an issue."

Complain about results, complain about underachievement but don't complain about the guy's salary.

(11-14-2014 01:29 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:09 PM)Mimi Wrote:  The only real expectation...and this is important...is that no matter how the season plays out...many will still take potshots due to losing an exhibition game.

They NEVER let it go...and mock fans who enjoy the positives by constantly reminding them of a negative...as if they are unaware.

End up something like 26-5 and a six seed in the tournament and many will still whine about an exhibition game and losing to SLU in 2012.

And yes...if our team performs the rest of the season...which really means the season since it has not stated yet, like they did in the meaningless exhibition game, then our coach will be and should be in trouble.

A very different point than those who will never let this go...as meaningless as it was. Gee Mimi what will you say if...

Nonsense...like EVERYONE else, at this stage...if our team duplicates that effort for the season...like any other school in the country...changes would need to be made. The chances of that are very very slim.

No, they won't. You're being overly dramatic, per usual.

Yes. They will. You are being overly dramatic, as usual.

(11-14-2014 01:32 PM)mphsfan Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 12:59 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 12:55 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 12:53 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  Wichita State plays tonight folks. Tune in, then come back and let's discuss whether we have a shot or not.

we have a shot. but i would like to watch them anyway, they do ball and they are very very well coached. who do they play and what channel?

They play New Mexico State, a top 100 team, at 9 pm. ESPN3 is the listing at this point.

If you watch the game, look for Preston Laird on NMSU's bench. He is on staff as Special Assistant to the Head Coach.

Huh, small world. Good for Preston.

(11-14-2014 01:36 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:26 PM)Mtyler Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 11:02 AM)Dale Wrote:  in March and fess up and post they were wrong being so upset about an exhibition game.

the uproar is not about this exhibition game
people are upset because....
pastner makes elite level pay with mediocre results
had 4 years with a top 5 recruiting class and won 2 NCAA tournament games
His teams frequently look lost on offense like there is no scheme
He never sticks to anything that he says they are committed to ie: the full court press
he has under achieved 4 of his past 5 seasons

Pastner is a great Human being that cannot be denied, but basketball coaches don't get paid to be great human beings. They get paid to get results on the court, and definitely when they make elite level pay as Pastner does. Look at the list below and honestly tell me that fans should not expect more than what Pastner has accomplished.

1 Mike Krzyzewski
$9,682,032 --
2 Rick Pitino
$5,758,338
3J ohn Calipari
$5,511,381
4 Bill Self
$4,960,763
5 Billy Donovan
$3,905,964
6Tom Izzo
$3,893,954
7Steve Alford (UCLA)
$3,473,973
8Thad Matta
$3,282,000
9Josh Pastner
$2,650,000
10Sean Miller
$2,627,806

Don't cry about Pastner's paycheck. First, you don't pay it. Second, it's there for a reason. It's there for the NEXT coach as much as the current coach. When Pastner leaves (Yes, he will leave sometime), the next coaching search will be that much more fruitful because Bowen can say "Well, we paid Josh Pastner X million dollars. Money will not be an issue."

Complain about results, complain about underachievement but don't complain about the guy's salary.

This is not a complaint about his salary. This is simply a fact based approach at explaining why it is completely reasonable for fans to expect more from Pastner.

(11-14-2014 01:36 PM)Mimi Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:29 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:09 PM)Mimi Wrote:  The only real expectation...and this is important...is that no matter how the season plays out...many will still take potshots due to losing an exhibition game.

They NEVER let it go...and mock fans who enjoy the positives by constantly reminding them of a negative...as if they are unaware.

End up something like 26-5 and a six seed in the tournament and many will still whine about an exhibition game and losing to SLU in 2012.

And yes...if our team performs the rest of the season...which really means the season since it has not stated yet, like they did in the meaningless exhibition game, then our coach will be and should be in trouble.

A very different point than those who will never let this go...as meaningless as it was. Gee Mimi what will you say if...

Nonsense...like EVERYONE else, at this stage...if our team duplicates that effort for the season...like any other school in the country...changes would need to be made. The chances of that are very very slim.

No, they won't. You're being overly dramatic, per usual.

Yes. They will. You are being overly dramatic, as usual.

Ok champ. Carry on with your usual schtick.

(11-14-2014 01:36 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:26 PM)Mtyler Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 11:02 AM)Dale Wrote:  in March and fess up and post they were wrong being so upset about an exhibition game.

the uproar is not about this exhibition game
people are upset because....
pastner makes elite level pay with mediocre results
had 4 years with a top 5 recruiting class and won 2 NCAA tournament games
His teams frequently look lost on offense like there is no scheme
He never sticks to anything that he says they are committed to ie: the full court press
he has under achieved 4 of his past 5 seasons

Pastner is a great Human being that cannot be denied, but basketball coaches don't get paid to be great human beings. They get paid to get results on the court, and definitely when they make elite level pay as Pastner does. Look at the list below and honestly tell me that fans should not expect more than what Pastner has accomplished.

1 Mike Krzyzewski
$9,682,032 --
2 Rick Pitino
$5,758,338
3J ohn Calipari
$5,511,381
4 Bill Self
$4,960,763
5 Billy Donovan
$3,905,964
6Tom Izzo
$3,893,954
7Steve Alford (UCLA)
$3,473,973
8Thad Matta
$3,282,000
9Josh Pastner
$2,650,000
10Sean Miller
$2,627,806

Don't cry about Pastner's paycheck. First, you don't pay it. Second, it's there for a reason. It's there for the NEXT coach as much as the current coach. When Pastner leaves (Yes, he will leave sometime), the next coaching search will be that much more fruitful because Bowen can say "Well, we paid Josh Pastner X million dollars. Money will not be an issue."

Complain about results, complain about underachievement but don't complain about the guy's salary.

Nobody's "complaining" about his salary. They are saying, and I agree, if you pay #9 money, you should expect top 25 results EVERY YEAR. PERIOD. If you are not, there is something wrong. You are wasting your salary and more importantly, your time- as in, how many seasons will we see interest in the program slip and spiral down and down and down, til we look like a UTEP, or a Southern Miss.

(11-14-2014 01:39 PM)Mtyler Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:36 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:26 PM)Mtyler Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 11:02 AM)Dale Wrote:  in March and fess up and post they were wrong being so upset about an exhibition game.

the uproar is not about this exhibition game
people are upset because....
pastner makes elite level pay with mediocre results
had 4 years with a top 5 recruiting class and won 2 NCAA tournament games
His teams frequently look lost on offense like there is no scheme
He never sticks to anything that he says they are committed to ie: the full court press
he has under achieved 4 of his past 5 seasons

Pastner is a great Human being that cannot be denied, but basketball coaches don't get paid to be great human beings. They get paid to get results on the court, and definitely when they make elite level pay as Pastner does. Look at the list below and honestly tell me that fans should not expect more than what Pastner has accomplished.

1 Mike Krzyzewski
$9,682,032 --
2 Rick Pitino
$5,758,338
3J ohn Calipari
$5,511,381
4 Bill Self
$4,960,763
5 Billy Donovan
$3,905,964
6Tom Izzo
$3,893,954
7Steve Alford (UCLA)
$3,473,973
8Thad Matta
$3,282,000
9Josh Pastner
$2,650,000
10Sean Miller
$2,627,806

Don't cry about Pastner's paycheck. First, you don't pay it. Second, it's there for a reason. It's there for the NEXT coach as much as the current coach. When Pastner leaves (Yes, he will leave sometime), the next coaching search will be that much more fruitful because Bowen can say "Well, we paid Josh Pastner X million dollars. Money will not be an issue."

Complain about results, complain about underachievement but don't complain about the guy's salary.

This is not a complaint about his salary. This is simply a fact based approach at explaining why it is completely reasonable for fans to expect more from Pastner.

My point is: don't cry about how much the guy makes. He wouldn't be doing a "better job" if he only made 300k per year. The money is serving a purpose.

(11-14-2014 01:00 PM)MemTigerFan Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 12:17 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  people are gonna blow off steam after an embarrassing, infuriating loss. Most have probably come down off that ledge since then, or will.

why do people have to be "out on the ledge" because they're tired of the consistently bad direction our program has been on for 5 years now and choose to be vocal about it?

This isn't fully directed at you, you just happen to be the one who used this phrase today (I'm sure others have too).

Bad direction? Improvement 4 out of the last 5 years and the only year we didn't improve we still won an NCAA tournament game. People will say anything for the sake of complaining no matter how untrue it is.

(11-14-2014 01:44 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:36 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:26 PM)Mtyler Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 11:02 AM)Dale Wrote:  in March and fess up and post they were wrong being so upset about an exhibition game.

the uproar is not about this exhibition game
people are upset because....
pastner makes elite level pay with mediocre results
had 4 years with a top 5 recruiting class and won 2 NCAA tournament games
His teams frequently look lost on offense like there is no scheme
He never sticks to anything that he says they are committed to ie: the full court press
he has under achieved 4 of his past 5 seasons

Pastner is a great Human being that cannot be denied, but basketball coaches don't get paid to be great human beings. They get paid to get results on the court, and definitely when they make elite level pay as Pastner does. Look at the list below and honestly tell me that fans should not expect more than what Pastner has accomplished.

1 Mike Krzyzewski
$9,682,032 --
2 Rick Pitino
$5,758,338
3J ohn Calipari
$5,511,381
4 Bill Self
$4,960,763
5 Billy Donovan
$3,905,964
6Tom Izzo
$3,893,954
7Steve Alford (UCLA)
$3,473,973
8Thad Matta
$3,282,000
9Josh Pastner
$2,650,000
10Sean Miller
$2,627,806

Don't cry about Pastner's paycheck. First, you don't pay it. Second, it's there for a reason. It's there for the NEXT coach as much as the current coach. When Pastner leaves (Yes, he will leave sometime), the next coaching search will be that much more fruitful because Bowen can say "Well, we paid Josh Pastner X million dollars. Money will not be an issue."

Complain about results, complain about underachievement but don't complain about the guy's salary.

Nobody's "complaining" about his salary. They are saying, and I agree, if you pay #9 money, you should expect top 25 results EVERY YEAR. PERIOD. If you are not, there is something wrong. You are wasting your salary and more importantly, your time- as in, how many seasons will we see interest in the program slip and spiral down and down and down, til we look like a UTEP, or a Southern Miss.

I disagree. He wouldn't be doing a better job if he was paid less, nor would he be underachieving any less. Forget about how much the guy makes and focus on his results. The whole point of the salary is protection, insurance, that we WON'T become irrelevant like UTEP or USM.

(11-14-2014 01:26 PM)Mtyler Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 11:02 AM)Dale Wrote:  in March and fess up and post they were wrong being so upset about an exhibition game.

the uproar is not about this exhibition game
people are upset because....
pastner makes elite level pay with mediocre results
had 4 years with a top 5 recruiting class and won 2 NCAA tournament games
His teams frequently look lost on offense like there is no scheme
He never sticks to anything that he says they are committed to ie: the full court press
he has under achieved 4 of his past 5 seasons

Pastner is a great Human being that cannot be denied, but basketball coaches don't get paid to be great human beings. They get paid to get results on the court, and definitely when they make elite level pay as Pastner does. Look at the list below and honestly tell me that fans should not expect more than what Pastner has accomplished.

1 Mike Krzyzewski
$9,682,032 --
2 Rick Pitino
$5,758,338
3J ohn Calipari
$5,511,381
4 Bill Self
$4,960,763
5 Billy Donovan
$3,905,964
6Tom Izzo
$3,893,954
7Steve Alford (UCLA)
$3,473,973
8Thad Matta
$3,282,000
9Josh Pastner
$2,650,000
10Sean Miller
$2,627,806

I always laugh when someone posts a list like this...

We got turned down by Leonard Hamilton and Tim Floyd. We overpaid for Cal, overpaid for Tommy West (twice), hung on to Rip longer than we probably should have, had to settle for Tic Price, had to settle for Larry Porter and we had to settle for Pastner and overpay him to make sure he stayed. We will have to overpay for Fuente and if he probably won't stay no matter how much money we throw at him.

We have every reason to be proud, but at the same time, not lose sight with how others perceive us. When Pastner and Fuente leave (whenever that is), they will both have succeeded in improving the school's image.

There will be no apologizing in March.

(11-14-2014 01:52 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:44 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:36 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:26 PM)Mtyler Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 11:02 AM)Dale Wrote:  in March and fess up and post they were wrong being so upset about an exhibition game.

the uproar is not about this exhibition game
people are upset because....
pastner makes elite level pay with mediocre results
had 4 years with a top 5 recruiting class and won 2 NCAA tournament games
His teams frequently look lost on offense like there is no scheme
He never sticks to anything that he says they are committed to ie: the full court press
he has under achieved 4 of his past 5 seasons

Pastner is a great Human being that cannot be denied, but basketball coaches don't get paid to be great human beings. They get paid to get results on the court, and definitely when they make elite level pay as Pastner does. Look at the list below and honestly tell me that fans should not expect more than what Pastner has accomplished.

1 Mike Krzyzewski
$9,682,032 --
2 Rick Pitino
$5,758,338
3J ohn Calipari
$5,511,381
4 Bill Self
$4,960,763
5 Billy Donovan
$3,905,964
6Tom Izzo
$3,893,954
7Steve Alford (UCLA)
$3,473,973
8Thad Matta
$3,282,000
9Josh Pastner
$2,650,000
10Sean Miller
$2,627,806

Don't cry about Pastner's paycheck. First, you don't pay it. Second, it's there for a reason. It's there for the NEXT coach as much as the current coach. When Pastner leaves (Yes, he will leave sometime), the next coaching search will be that much more fruitful because Bowen can say "Well, we paid Josh Pastner X million dollars. Money will not be an issue."

Complain about results, complain about underachievement but don't complain about the guy's salary.

Nobody's "complaining" about his salary. They are saying, and I agree, if you pay #9 money, you should expect top 25 results EVERY YEAR. PERIOD. If you are not, there is something wrong. You are wasting your salary and more importantly, your time- as in, how many seasons will we see interest in the program slip and spiral down and down and down, til we look like a UTEP, or a Southern Miss.

I disagree. He wouldn't be doing a better job if he was paid less, nor would he be underachieving any less. Forget about how much the guy makes and focus on his results. The whole point of the salary is protection, insurance, that we WON'T become irrelevant like UTEP or USM.

I dont think he is saying Josh should be paid less because he doesn't live up to the 2.65, I think he is saying the results don't add up to what he is getting paid.

Wish he made about $1 million more so he could've donated to Haiti.

(11-14-2014 01:56 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  I dont think he is saying Josh should be paid less because he doesn't live up to the 2.65, I think he is saying the results don't add up to what he is getting paid.

The results are bad regardless of what the guy gets paid. His pay is not relevant to whether he is doing a good job or not. His pay serves a completely different purpose though.

(11-14-2014 01:55 PM)tigerpride96 Wrote:  There will be no apologizing in March.

I don't know about that, but what I know is Tue night if we win I will personally get on this board and sing his praise. That is a guarantee.

(11-14-2014 01:58 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 01:56 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  I dont think he is saying Josh should be paid less because he doesn't live up to the 2.65, I think he is saying the results don't add up to what he is getting paid.

The results are bad regardless of what the guy gets paid. His pay is not relevant to whether he is doing a good job or not. His pay serves a completely different purpose though.

some will argue as you know, that the results are great, not me of course. Great results would be two sweet 16's and finishing at least second in the conference both in the regular season and tournament, of the American.

To me, it's irrelevant what Josh makes. It's the results that matter. Not satisfied with the results and even less satisfied with Josh's abilities as a floor coach and his system on both sides of the ball.

(11-14-2014 01:57 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Wish he made about $1 million more so he could've donated to Haiti.

I see what you did. Well played.

Dale is Josh's paid message board consultant