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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #31
RE: University Endowments
(01-29-2015 11:42 AM)FAUAEPi Wrote:  Why can't we ever discuss something fun and something we should win. Like hottest coeds for example.

Start a thread!

eta: I would, but I went to Rice. There wasn't much there while I was on campus (times may have changed, though).
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2015 10:15 AM by GoodOwl.)
01-30-2015 10:01 AM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: University Endowments
Here is the complete list of CUSA institutions; courtesy of ODUOldtimer

CUSA Schools Ranks
1). Rice rank #30 $5,527 B
2). UAB rank T#227 $327 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...Birmingham
3). ODU rank #288 $213 M
4). Florida Atlantic rank #294 $208 M
5). Florida International rank #333 $ 176 M
6). North Texas rank #371 $143 M
7). UTEP rank T#351 $151 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...at_El_Paso
8). Charlotte rank #341 $168 M
9). Western Kentucky rank #390 $135 M
10). UTSA rank T#424 $113 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...an_Antonio
11). Marshall rank # 435 $108 M
12). LA Tech rank T#362 $94 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Tech_University
13). Middle Tennessee rank #483 $88 M
14). Southern Miss rank #515 $78 M

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/Endowmen...Values.pdf
[/quote]
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2015 10:28 AM by ODUalum78.)
01-30-2015 10:12 AM
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eager eagle Offline
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Post: #33
RE: University Endowments
(01-30-2015 10:12 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Here is the complete list of CUSA institutions; Courtesy of ODUOldtimer

CUSA Schools Ranks
1). Rice rank #30 $5,527 B
2). UAB rank T#227 $327 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...Birmingham
3). ODU rank #288 $213 M
4). Florida Atlantic rank #294 $208 M
5). Florida International rank #333 $ 176 M
6). North Texas rank #371 $143 M
7). UTEP rank T#351 $151 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...at_El_Paso
8). Charlotte rank #341 $168 M
9). Western Kentucky rank #390 $135 M
10). UTSA rank T#424 $113 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...an_Antonio
11). Marshall rank # 435 $108 M
12). LA Tech rank T#362 $94 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Tech_University
13). Middle Tennessee rank #483 $88 M
14). Southern Miss rank #515 $78 M

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/Endowmen...Values.pdf
[/quote]

Louisiana requires an annual audit of its universities and their Foundations. The Louisiana Tech University opened its books to auditors for the fiscal year ending 6-30-2014 that showed the Louisiana Tech University Foundation to have NET assets of $45,489,988 and a NET endowment of $28,510,326. The auditors reviewed those records and agreed they were correct. The current fiscal year does not end until 06-30-2015.

Thus, you can believe the school and its auditors, or Wikipedia.
01-30-2015 10:48 AM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: University Endowments
(01-30-2015 10:48 AM)eager eagle Wrote:  
(01-30-2015 10:12 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Here is the complete list of CUSA institutions; Courtesy of ODUOldtimer

CUSA Schools Ranks
1). Rice rank #30 $5,527 B
2). UAB rank T#227 $327 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...Birmingham
3). ODU rank #288 $213 M
4). Florida Atlantic rank #294 $208 M
5). Florida International rank #333 $ 176 M
6). North Texas rank #371 $143 M
7). UTEP rank T#351 $151 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...at_El_Paso
8). Charlotte rank #341 $168 M
9). Western Kentucky rank #390 $135 M
10). UTSA rank T#424 $113 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...an_Antonio
11). Marshall rank # 435 $108 M
12). LA Tech rank T#362 $94 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Tech_University
13). Middle Tennessee rank #483 $88 M
14). Southern Miss rank #515 $78 M

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/Endowmen...Values.pdf

Louisiana requires an annual audit of its universities and their Foundations. The Louisiana Tech University opened its books to auditors for the fiscal year ending 6-30-2014 that showed the Louisiana Tech University Foundation to have NET assets of $45,489,988 and a NET endowment of $28,510,326. The auditors reviewed those records and agreed they were correct. The current fiscal year does not end until 06-30-2015.

Thus, you can believe the school and its auditors, or Wikipedia.
[/quote]
As you have shown, any given fiscal year is different. For example, La Tech itself reported an endowment of $72,459,317 for fiscal year 2013.
Some records are still not available past 2013 because of incomplete audits.
What is La Tech reporting for 2014?
01-30-2015 11:03 AM
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DETLTU Offline
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Post: #35
RE: University Endowments
(01-30-2015 10:48 AM)eager eagle Wrote:  
(01-30-2015 10:12 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Here is the complete list of CUSA institutions; Courtesy of ODUOldtimer

CUSA Schools Ranks
1). Rice rank #30 $5,527 B
2). UAB rank T#227 $327 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...Birmingham
3). ODU rank #288 $213 M
4). Florida Atlantic rank #294 $208 M
5). Florida International rank #333 $ 176 M
6). North Texas rank #371 $143 M
7). UTEP rank T#351 $151 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...at_El_Paso
8). Charlotte rank #341 $168 M
9). Western Kentucky rank #390 $135 M
10). UTSA rank T#424 $113 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...an_Antonio
11). Marshall rank # 435 $108 M
12). LA Tech rank T#362 $94 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Tech_University
13). Middle Tennessee rank #483 $88 M
14). Southern Miss rank #515 $78 M

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/Endowmen...Values.pdf

Louisiana requires an annual audit of its universities and their Foundations. The Louisiana Tech University opened its books to auditors for the fiscal year ending 6-30-2014 that showed the Louisiana Tech University Foundation to have NET assets of $45,489,988 and a NET endowment of $28,510,326. The auditors reviewed those records and agreed they were correct. The current fiscal year does not end until 06-30-2015.

Thus, you can believe the school and its auditors, or Wikipedia.
I figured this was coming. We've discussed it before but per note 12 from the auditors report:
Certain endowed fiinds are provided by the State of Louisiana as a match to these qualifying private endowed contributions. Once the match is received, the private endowed funds along with the matching endowed funds are transferred to the Due to Louisiana Tech University liability account.

Those funds cannot be an asset for the Foundation, but they are for the University.
Total value of that account is 40,493,409.

I know that doesn't fit with your agenda, but other people should know the truth at least.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2015 11:10 AM by DETLTU.)
01-30-2015 11:09 AM
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TodgeRodge Offline
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Post: #36
RE: University Endowments
(01-30-2015 10:12 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Here is the complete list of CUSA institutions; courtesy of ODUOldtimer

CUSA Schools Ranks
1). Rice rank #30 $5,527 B
2). UAB rank T#227 $327 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...Birmingham
3). ODU rank #288 $213 M
4). Florida Atlantic rank #294 $208 M
5). Florida International rank #333 $ 176 M
6). North Texas rank #371 $143 M
7). UTEP rank T#351 $151 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...at_El_Paso
8). Charlotte rank #341 $168 M
9). Western Kentucky rank #390 $135 M
10). UTSA rank T#424 $113 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...an_Antonio
11). Marshall rank # 435 $108 M
12). LA Tech rank T#362 $94 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Tech_University
13). Middle Tennessee rank #483 $88 M
14). Southern Miss rank #515 $78 M

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/Endowmen...Values.pdf

those wiki numbers for UTSA and UTEP are dated and incorrect

one can get the info from UTIMCO here

http://www.utimco.org/scripts/PrivateEnd...mplist.asp

or for even more current numbers from the THCEB here

http://www.txhighereddata.org/Interactiv...nerate.cfm

under contextual measures total endowment

with UTEP at $221 and UTSA $114......so UTEP being much higher and UTSA only slightly higher
01-30-2015 12:45 PM
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eager eagle Offline
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Post: #37
RE: University Endowments
(01-30-2015 11:09 AM)DETLTU Wrote:  
(01-30-2015 10:48 AM)eager eagle Wrote:  
(01-30-2015 10:12 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Here is the complete list of CUSA institutions; Courtesy of ODUOldtimer

CUSA Schools Ranks
1). Rice rank #30 $5,527 B
2). UAB rank T#227 $327 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...Birmingham
3). ODU rank #288 $213 M
4). Florida Atlantic rank #294 $208 M
5). Florida International rank #333 $ 176 M
6). North Texas rank #371 $143 M
7). UTEP rank T#351 $151 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...at_El_Paso
8). Charlotte rank #341 $168 M
9). Western Kentucky rank #390 $135 M
10). UTSA rank T#424 $113 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...an_Antonio
11). Marshall rank # 435 $108 M
12). LA Tech rank T#362 $94 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Tech_University
13). Middle Tennessee rank #483 $88 M
14). Southern Miss rank #515 $78 M

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/Endowmen...Values.pdf

Louisiana requires an annual audit of its universities and their Foundations. The Louisiana Tech University opened its books to auditors for the fiscal year ending 6-30-2014 that showed the Louisiana Tech University Foundation to have NET assets of $45,489,988 and a NET endowment of $28,510,326. The auditors reviewed those records and agreed they were correct. The current fiscal year does not end until 06-30-2015.

Thus, you can believe the school and its auditors, or Wikipedia.
I figured this was coming. We've discussed it before but per note 12 from the auditors report:
Certain endowed fiinds are provided by the State of Louisiana as a match to these qualifying private endowed contributions. Once the match is received, the private endowed funds along with the matching endowed funds are transferred to the Due to Louisiana Tech University liability account.

Those funds cannot be an asset for the Foundation, but they are for the University.
Total value of that account is 40,493,409.

I know that doesn't fit with your agenda, but other people should know the truth at least.

La Tech was not included in the first listing but someone checked with Wikipedia which showed $94mil endowment resulting in a #12 rank in Cusa and about 360 or so nationally. I checked and simply quoted from the audit report which clearly identifies the La Tech endowment has a net value $28,510,326. Now, what you say is indeed correct but the figure you are talking about is mixing oranges and apples because the over $40mil INCLUDES state matching funds AND donated endowment money. We are talking here about endowments and NOT matching state funds because state funds are not guaranteed over the years whereas endowments are set in cement with only the interest available for use from year to year.
01-30-2015 06:27 PM
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DETLTU Offline
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Post: #38
RE: University Endowments
(01-30-2015 06:27 PM)eager eagle Wrote:  
(01-30-2015 11:09 AM)DETLTU Wrote:  
(01-30-2015 10:48 AM)eager eagle Wrote:  
(01-30-2015 10:12 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Here is the complete list of CUSA institutions; Courtesy of ODUOldtimer

CUSA Schools Ranks
1). Rice rank #30 $5,527 B
2). UAB rank T#227 $327 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...Birmingham
3). ODU rank #288 $213 M
4). Florida Atlantic rank #294 $208 M
5). Florida International rank #333 $ 176 M
6). North Texas rank #371 $143 M
7). UTEP rank T#351 $151 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...at_El_Paso
8). Charlotte rank #341 $168 M
9). Western Kentucky rank #390 $135 M
10). UTSA rank T#424 $113 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_...an_Antonio
11). Marshall rank # 435 $108 M
12). LA Tech rank T#362 $94 M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Tech_University
13). Middle Tennessee rank #483 $88 M
14). Southern Miss rank #515 $78 M

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/Endowmen...Values.pdf

Louisiana requires an annual audit of its universities and their Foundations. The Louisiana Tech University opened its books to auditors for the fiscal year ending 6-30-2014 that showed the Louisiana Tech University Foundation to have NET assets of $45,489,988 and a NET endowment of $28,510,326. The auditors reviewed those records and agreed they were correct. The current fiscal year does not end until 06-30-2015.

Thus, you can believe the school and its auditors, or Wikipedia.
I figured this was coming. We've discussed it before but per note 12 from the auditors report:
Certain endowed fiinds are provided by the State of Louisiana as a match to these qualifying private endowed contributions. Once the match is received, the private endowed funds along with the matching endowed funds are transferred to the Due to Louisiana Tech University liability account.

Those funds cannot be an asset for the Foundation, but they are for the University.
Total value of that account is 40,493,409.

I know that doesn't fit with your agenda, but other people should know the truth at least.

La Tech was not included in the first listing but someone checked with Wikipedia which showed $94mil endowment resulting in a #12 rank in Cusa and about 360 or so nationally. I checked and simply quoted from the audit report which clearly identifies the La Tech endowment has a net value $28,510,326. Now, what you say is indeed correct but the figure you are talking about is mixing oranges and apples because the over $40mil INCLUDES state matching funds AND donated endowment money. We are talking here about endowments and NOT matching state funds because state funds are not guaranteed over the years whereas endowments are set in cement with only the interest available for use from year to year.

Close. The state matched funds shown in liabilities are only those that are already received. You are correct that when a donation is made to the endowment, the state matching funds are not guaranteed. That's why they stay in the general endowment figure until the state matching funds are received. When the state matches a 600k donation with the 400k state funds, the entire million is shown in the Due to University liability as well as the assets. It's money that the university has on hand as part of it's endowment. There is a huge backlog of matching funds still waiting for the state match that may never get paid. The $40 million is on hand and not subject to withdrawal by the state.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2015 09:17 PM by DETLTU.)
01-30-2015 09:13 PM
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banker Online
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Post: #39
RE: University Endowments
(01-29-2015 09:01 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(01-29-2015 08:05 PM)banker Wrote:  Todge, last fiscal year they returned 15.4%. You can look it up, it's the first hit in Google. They have averaged 12% over the last 20 years.

http://www.hmc.harvard.edu

Oh, and Harvard costs $58,000 a year for tuition, room and board. They could charge $100,000 a year if they wanted, they have a 5% acceptance rate. Plenty of really rich people would pay whatever it took to get their kid in. Oh, and it's not like tuition is their only source of revenue.

I will give you this, you type a lot.

lets do the math a different way

http://www.nacubo.org/documents/research...isting.pdf

in FY 2001 the Harvard endowment was $17,950.483,000

if one goes with the "rule of 72" with a 10% return on average you would double your money every 7.2 years

the S&P average from 1987 to 2012 was 9.61% which would double the money every 7.5 years

that would of course taking zero money out to be spent to double that money every 7.5 years with an S&P type return

here we are looking at Harvard with $35,883,691,000 in FY 2014

if Harvard was strictly meeting conservative S&P returns and taking zero money out from 2001 when they were at $17,950.483,000 they would have doubled that by FY 2008 to $35,900,966,000

in 2008 they had doubled that money and in fact had done better than that they were at $36,556,284,000

http://www.nacubo.org/documents/research...tValue.pdf

and so from there they should be able to double that yet again in another 7 years right

well here we are 6 years later from 2008 looking at FY 2014 and the Harvard endowment is $35,883,691,000

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/Endowmen...Values.pdf

so in 6 years from FY 2008 to FY 2014 Harvard has lost $672,593,000 of their endowment

so if you look at a very conservative investment strategy for the long term attempting to double your money every 7.5 years to keep up with the S&P and taking no money out Harvard should have gone from $17,950.483,000 in FY 2001 to $35,900.966 in FY 2008 (they actually beat that) and then they should have gone from $35,900.966 in FY 2008 to be on track to hit $71,801.932 in FY 2015 if they were beating the S&P even slightly

but instead 6 years into that 7 years they are lower by nearly $700 million than in FY 2008

so it is very clear that Harvard is spending a large amount of dollars out of their endowment and the returns from that endowment and over the last 6 years not only have they not come close to meeting any type of strategy for keeping endowment growth up with inflation they have actually watched the endowment decrease in real dollars with or without inflation

so if they were to attempt to spend more they could watch their endowment further decline and not come close to keeping up with inflation much less growing in the short or long term

and I am well aware that the tuition for Harvard LISTED is above the numbers that I used, but Harvard only has 6,700 undergrads along with 14,500 grad students and I would imagine the vast majority of those undergrads are not paying close to that tuition you listed and pretty much all of the graduate students are not going to be paying that when you look at stipends for teaching and or research

even if they were all paying that full rate it is still only 1.2 billion out of a 4.2 billion dollar budget so that is 3 billion you need to find elsewhere

you have $694 million in external research so that leaves a lot of money still to find elsewhere

Harvard has 2,400 faculty members and 10,400 academic appointments in teaching hospitals

http://www.harvard.edu/harvard-glance

so that is quite a number of people to pay and provide benefits for as well

and as that link states

UNDERGRADUATE COST AND FINANCIAL AID

Families with students on scholarship pay an average of $11,500 annually toward the cost of a Harvard education. More than 65 percent of Harvard College students receive scholarship aid, and the average grant this year is $46,000.

Since 2007, Harvard’s investment in financial aid has climbed by more than 70 percent, from $96.6 million to $166 million per year.

During the 2012-2013 academic year, students from families with incomes below $65,000, and with assets typical for that income level, will generally pay nothing toward the cost of attending Harvard College. Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0 to 10 percent of income, depending on individual circumstances. Significant financial aid also is available for families above those income ranges.


so again as I stated a massive amount of the students at Harvard pay nowhere close to $50K+ per year

when you look at the fact that Harvard has barely doubled their endowment (with both investment returns AND donations included) in 13 years and over the last 6 years with investment returns AND donations their endowment is still down nearly $700 million it is pretty clear to see they are spending from their endowment at pretty much the highest possible rate that they can without doing long term damage and as in one of the articles I linked there is already concern they are doing long term damage

and as for what their investment website states about annual returns.....I am sure they handle investments besides strictly the endowment like the retirement for all those thousands of workers and staff members and I would imagine the returns on investment they quote would include that money as well which would not be the actual endowment

that or for some reason Harvard has chosen to misrepresent their endowment returns to the NACUBO for over a decade

I don't know about how you or anyone else looks at finances, but when I am 13 years into something and I have only barely doubled my money that I have invested I am either spending too much or I am not getting a proper return and all the worse when I am adding external funds (donations in the case of Harvard) and still at that point

and when I am 6 years into something and down nearly 700 million including investment returns and annual additions of funds (donations for Harvard) the last thing I would tell myself if I had an annual budget of 4.2 billion to meet is "I am not spending enough from the endowment I should give more financial aid and build more buildings and give staff members big raises"

unless I want to go broke like a pro athlete or a lotto winner

the numbers CLEARLY show that Harvard is sending a great deal of money from their endowment and relative to total endowment and long term endowment returns and their financial aid numbers show they are very generous even to families that have well above a middle class income and they go to great lengths to make Harvard affordable for them

I linked the website to the company whose only function is to administer the Harvard Endowment. On the site they discuss their investment strategy, their results, their funding to the university, and even provide PDF files to their last several annual reports. In spite of that, you go on a 100 paragraph rampage built on hypotheticals and assumptions. Are you just bored or do you really think your analysis will prove more accurate than the actual, audited results provided by the firm that manages the endowment?

I do find it interesting that Harvard has 2,400 faculty members considering they have less than 10,000 students. So basically you're saying there's a 4 to 1 ratio?
01-31-2015 12:11 AM
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BlueRaiderBoy Offline
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Post: #40
RE: University Endowments
(01-30-2015 10:01 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(01-29-2015 11:42 AM)FAUAEPi Wrote:  Why can't we ever discuss something fun and something we should win. Like hottest coeds for example.

Start a thread!

eta: I would, but I went to Rice. There wasn't much there while I was on campus (times may have changed, though).

Now that I reviewed this financial analysis, I make a Motion we set up the "PO' Folks Foundation" to collect donations for Marshall, La Tech, MT, and Southern Miss. We can let Rice and ODU be responsible for raising the Money. Clearly OWLS and MONARCHS got a Helluva lot more $ GREEN! Of course, FAU and FIU can contribute, too!
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2015 10:10 AM by BlueRaiderBoy.)
01-31-2015 10:09 AM
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