So let's say Virginia Tech moves to the Big Ten and ESPN holds Tier 1 rights for the ACC and Fox has the Big Ten.

ESPN elects to air Michigan at Virginia Tech.

Who does ESPN pay? ESPN got the game and can profit from it. That's what the GoR gave them.

Would it really hold up in court over the length of the contract for ESPN to continue paying the ACC in this scenario?

Better yet, what if ESPN holds Tier 1 rights to both conferences. Could they reduce the payment going to one conference over the other without triggering some "best interest" clause in the contract?

Would the Big Ten care if they challenged the power of the GoR in court? I don't think so since nobody is likely to leave. Would the ACC? Absolutely; It's what is keeping them together, and in the same ballpark as the other leagues.

Further, if Virginia Tech pays the full exit fee, are the bylaws that say where the TV money goes still binding? if so, for how long?

Grab some popcorn. The 2-year point for B1G's next contract is approaching.

(02-21-2015 07:19 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Grab some popcorn. The 2-year point for B1G's next contract is approaching.

New York cable market? Check.

Washington DC cable market? Check.

Keep moving down I-95 and that's where the B10 is headed.

Nope, i don't see UVA or UNC having interest in the big 10 no matter the money. Of course, that assumes nobody leaves the acc. If V tech is talked about as a possible big 10 invite that just proves the point UVA told the big 10 no. I think for the big 10 to crack open the acc, they need to invite FSU, don't make that move and nobody else is leaving.

(02-21-2015 04:42 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Virginia Tech, UConn -> B1G. B1G can absorb VT's legal battle with the new TV contract.

That puts the rest of New England (primarily Boston), and North Carolina, a stones throw away and completes H1's 4x4 conference. Question then would be, what division does VT get put in. One with Penn State as the anchor, or Ohio State?

It's really an ugly addition for going to 16. There is no easy answer. That makes for five "Eastern" programs.

I think they would have to end up putting Penn State, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Rutgers together. That makes for a pretty slick division. The problem becomes when you have to create Ohio State's division. In the past I would say OSU and Michigan would absolutely be together but the point of going to four divisions is in order to have a four team tournament of division winners. In that case you absolutely do not want to ensure that you never have your top two brands in the same tournament.

I would go Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois. It is obviously a top heavy division but so what right?

You then have Michigan, Michigan State, UConn and Northwestern together.

That leaves the Big Ten with Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota in the West.

It's ugly but it's doable. I still like the set up better after getting Oklahoma and Kansas.

The University of Louisiana at Lafayette ULL directly to the Big 12 by passing CUSA and the AAC this year according to their website.

(02-21-2015 10:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I would go Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois. It is obviously a top heavy division but so what right?

You then have Michigan, Michigan State, UConn and Northwestern together.

That leaves the Big Ten with Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota in the West.

It's ugly but it's doable. I still like the set up better after getting Oklahoma and Kansas.

I agree. I started to get uncomfortable with the pod placement when thinking about the addition of 2 more eastern teams. But for now, I'm locked in on thinking "East".

(02-21-2015 10:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 04:42 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Virginia Tech, UConn -> B1G. B1G can absorb VT's legal battle with the new TV contract.

That puts the rest of New England (primarily Boston), and North Carolina, a stones throw away and completes H1's 4x4 conference. Question then would be, what division does VT get put in. One with Penn State as the anchor, or Ohio State?

It's really an ugly addition for going to 16. There is no easy answer. That makes for five "Eastern" programs.

I think they would have to end up putting Penn State, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Rutgers together. That makes for a pretty slick division. The problem becomes when you have to create Ohio State's division. In the past I would say OSU and Michigan would absolutely be together but the point of going to four divisions is in order to have a four team tournament of division winners. In that case you absolutely do not want to ensure that you never have your top two brands in the same tournament.

I would go Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois. It is obviously a top heavy division but so what right?

You then have Michigan, Michigan State, UConn and Northwestern together.

That leaves the Big Ten with Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota in the West.

It's ugly but it's doable. I still like the set up better after getting Oklahoma and Kansas.

I agree that it'd be a difficult set-up, but here's my take...

I would first divide the West: (A) Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin and (B) Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue. (B) ends up being one of the weakest divisions in FBS, but I like keeping the Indiana/Illinois schools together.

The East is tough in that you want to keep certain schools playing each other on an annual basis. The best way to keep those intact (IMO) is having a pod of © Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and (D) Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia Tech. I'm not sure whether Penn State would rather be in © or (D). UCONN wouldn't care where they went as long as it meant a Big Ten membership.

So...

(A) Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
(B) Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
© Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State/UCONN
(D) Virginia Tech, Maryland, Rutgers, UCONN/Penn State

(02-21-2015 11:19 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 10:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 04:42 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Virginia Tech, UConn -> B1G. B1G can absorb VT's legal battle with the new TV contract.

That puts the rest of New England (primarily Boston), and North Carolina, a stones throw away and completes H1's 4x4 conference. Question then would be, what division does VT get put in. One with Penn State as the anchor, or Ohio State?

It's really an ugly addition for going to 16. There is no easy answer. That makes for five "Eastern" programs.

I think they would have to end up putting Penn State, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Rutgers together. That makes for a pretty slick division. The problem becomes when you have to create Ohio State's division. In the past I would say OSU and Michigan would absolutely be together but the point of going to four divisions is in order to have a four team tournament of division winners. In that case you absolutely do not want to ensure that you never have your top two brands in the same tournament.

I would go Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois. It is obviously a top heavy division but so what right?

You then have Michigan, Michigan State, UConn and Northwestern together.

That leaves the Big Ten with Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota in the West.

It's ugly but it's doable. I still like the set up better after getting Oklahoma and Kansas.

I agree that it'd be a difficult set-up, but here's my take...

I would first divide the West: (A) Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin and (B) Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue. (B) ends up being one of the weakest divisions in FBS, but I like keeping the Indiana/Illinois schools together.

The East is tough in that you want to keep certain schools playing each other on an annual basis. The best way to keep those intact (IMO) is having a pod of © Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and (D) Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia Tech. I'm not sure whether Penn State would rather be in © or (D). UCONN wouldn't care where they went as long as it meant a Big Ten membership.

So...

(A) Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
(B) Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
© Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State/UCONN
(D) Virginia Tech, Maryland, Rutgers, UCONN/Penn State

Alright Husky, now you and I havnt gotten along all that well in the past but I don't want you thinking about that with what I am about to say.

It isn't personal at all when I say this but it is quite obvious to me that you are not that knowledgeable about Big Ten history and relationships. I certainly wouldn't expect you to either so please understand the direction I am coming from when I say this.

That set up between (B) and © is terrible. When I say terrible I am not talking about a gross youtube video terrible. I am talking about single glance at the paper and immediately throwing it into the trash kind of terrible.

To an outsider it would make perfect sense that the Illinois and Indiana schools would have some sort of tight relationship. Well I am sorry but while that is an absolutely rational assumption to make, it simply isn't true. I don't know why, I don't have an explanation for it but Illinois cares more about Ohio State. Somehow, the feeling is mutual. We all just assume it is for an easy win from OSU's perspective but its the truth. Northwestern's rivalries seem to have somehow formulated with the school to the North and the school to the West. Indiana and Purdue have a strong rivalry but to be honest, Purdue doesn't really have much for strong rivalries beyond that. The two schools of Indiana and Michigan State have a rivalry that I believe stems from basketball.

You have all these relationships split by that (B) and © set up. It simply wouldn't happen.

(02-21-2015 11:27 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 11:19 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 10:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 04:42 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Virginia Tech, UConn -> B1G. B1G can absorb VT's legal battle with the new TV contract.

That puts the rest of New England (primarily Boston), and North Carolina, a stones throw away and completes H1's 4x4 conference. Question then would be, what division does VT get put in. One with Penn State as the anchor, or Ohio State?

It's really an ugly addition for going to 16. There is no easy answer. That makes for five "Eastern" programs.

I think they would have to end up putting Penn State, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Rutgers together. That makes for a pretty slick division. The problem becomes when you have to create Ohio State's division. In the past I would say OSU and Michigan would absolutely be together but the point of going to four divisions is in order to have a four team tournament of division winners. In that case you absolutely do not want to ensure that you never have your top two brands in the same tournament.

I would go Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois. It is obviously a top heavy division but so what right?

You then have Michigan, Michigan State, UConn and Northwestern together.

That leaves the Big Ten with Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota in the West.

It's ugly but it's doable. I still like the set up better after getting Oklahoma and Kansas.

I agree that it'd be a difficult set-up, but here's my take...

I would first divide the West: (A) Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin and (B) Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue. (B) ends up being one of the weakest divisions in FBS, but I like keeping the Indiana/Illinois schools together.

The East is tough in that you want to keep certain schools playing each other on an annual basis. The best way to keep those intact (IMO) is having a pod of © Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and (D) Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia Tech. I'm not sure whether Penn State would rather be in © or (D). UCONN wouldn't care where they went as long as it meant a Big Ten membership.

So...

(A) Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
(B) Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
© Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State/UCONN
(D) Virginia Tech, Maryland, Rutgers, UCONN/Penn State

Alright Husky, now you and I havnt gotten along all that well in the past but I don't want you thinking about that with what I am about to say.

It isn't personal at all when I say this but it is quite obvious to me that you are not that knowledgeable about Big Ten history and relationships. I certainly wouldn't expect you to either so please understand the direction I am coming from when I say this.

That set up between (B) and © is terrible. When I say terrible I am not talking about a gross youtube video terrible. I am talking about single glance at the paper and immediately throwing it into the trash kind of terrible.

To an outsider it would make perfect sense that the Illinois and Indiana schools would have some sort of tight relationship. Well I am sorry but while that is an absolutely rational assumption to make, it simply isn't true. I don't know why, I don't have an explanation for it but Illinois cares more about Ohio State. Somehow, the feeling is mutual. We all just assume it is for an easy win from OSU's perspective but its the truth. Northwestern's rivalries seem to have somehow formulated with the school to the North and the school to the West. Indiana and Purdue have a strong rivalry but to be honest, Purdue doesn't really have much for strong rivalries beyond that. The two schools of Indiana and Michigan State have a rivalry that I believe stems from basketball.

You have all these relationships split by that (B) and © set up. It simply wouldn't happen.

Understandable. You're definitely more knowledgeable on this topic than me. I just took a stab at it from an outsider's view. I agree with you and SeaBlue that it would be a messy pod system if the two new additions were Eastern schools. I'm just a fan of having more geographical divisions (in every conference). I don't take your opposition personally.

BTW...in the end, the only difference between my set-up and yours was that we had Northwestern and Ohio State in different pods.

(02-21-2015 11:36 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 11:27 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 11:19 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 10:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 04:42 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Virginia Tech, UConn -> B1G. B1G can absorb VT's legal battle with the new TV contract.

That puts the rest of New England (primarily Boston), and North Carolina, a stones throw away and completes H1's 4x4 conference. Question then would be, what division does VT get put in. One with Penn State as the anchor, or Ohio State?

It's really an ugly addition for going to 16. There is no easy answer. That makes for five "Eastern" programs.

I think they would have to end up putting Penn State, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Rutgers together. That makes for a pretty slick division. The problem becomes when you have to create Ohio State's division. In the past I would say OSU and Michigan would absolutely be together but the point of going to four divisions is in order to have a four team tournament of division winners. In that case you absolutely do not want to ensure that you never have your top two brands in the same tournament.

I would go Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois. It is obviously a top heavy division but so what right?

You then have Michigan, Michigan State, UConn and Northwestern together.

That leaves the Big Ten with Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota in the West.

It's ugly but it's doable. I still like the set up better after getting Oklahoma and Kansas.

I agree that it'd be a difficult set-up, but here's my take...

I would first divide the West: (A) Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin and (B) Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue. (B) ends up being one of the weakest divisions in FBS, but I like keeping the Indiana/Illinois schools together.

The East is tough in that you want to keep certain schools playing each other on an annual basis. The best way to keep those intact (IMO) is having a pod of © Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and (D) Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia Tech. I'm not sure whether Penn State would rather be in © or (D). UCONN wouldn't care where they went as long as it meant a Big Ten membership.

So...

(A) Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
(B) Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
© Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State/UCONN
(D) Virginia Tech, Maryland, Rutgers, UCONN/Penn State

Alright Husky, now you and I havnt gotten along all that well in the past but I don't want you thinking about that with what I am about to say.

It isn't personal at all when I say this but it is quite obvious to me that you are not that knowledgeable about Big Ten history and relationships. I certainly wouldn't expect you to either so please understand the direction I am coming from when I say this.

That set up between (B) and © is terrible. When I say terrible I am not talking about a gross youtube video terrible. I am talking about single glance at the paper and immediately throwing it into the trash kind of terrible.

To an outsider it would make perfect sense that the Illinois and Indiana schools would have some sort of tight relationship. Well I am sorry but while that is an absolutely rational assumption to make, it simply isn't true. I don't know why, I don't have an explanation for it but Illinois cares more about Ohio State. Somehow, the feeling is mutual. We all just assume it is for an easy win from OSU's perspective but its the truth. Northwestern's rivalries seem to have somehow formulated with the school to the North and the school to the West. Indiana and Purdue have a strong rivalry but to be honest, Purdue doesn't really have much for strong rivalries beyond that. The two schools of Indiana and Michigan State have a rivalry that I believe stems from basketball.

You have all these relationships split by that (B) and © set up. It simply wouldn't happen.

Understandable. You're definitely more knowledgeable on this topic than me. I just took a stab at it from an outsider's view. I agree with you and SeaBlue that it would be a messy pod system if the two new additions were Eastern schools. I'm just a fan of having more geographical divisions (in every conference). I don't take your opposition personally.

BTW...Despite our opposing reasons, the only difference between my set-up and yours was that we had Northwestern and Ohio State in different pods.

I would wholeheartedly agree that when we move to increasing the amount of divisions that it will become very easy to create those based upon geography but geography wont be the only variable involved.

If you're going to divide the B1G, it has to be in pods of 6
West: Nebraska, Iowa, mN, Wisconsin, NW, ILL
Central: IU, Purdue, Mich, MSU, tOSU, PSU
East: RU, UMD, UVA, VT, Duke, UNC

Play 5 division games plus 3 versus each other division for an 11game conference season and one "at large" game.

(02-21-2015 11:53 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  If you're going to divide the B1G, it has to be in pods of 6
West: Nebraska, Iowa, mN, Wisconsin, NW, ILL
Central: IU, Purdue, Mich, MSU, tOSU, PSU
East: RU, UMD, UVA, VT, Duke, UNC

Play 5 division games plus 3 versus each other division for an 11game conference season and one "at large" game.

Assuming the B1G makes so much money they can land anyone, how about pods of 6 with 4 divisions :

Big 24
-----
East
-----
Duke
Georgia Tech
Maryland
North Carolina
Virginia
Virginia Tech

Central
-----
Michigan
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Penn State
Rutgers

North
-----
Illinois
Indiana
Minnesota
Northwestern
Purdue
Wisconsin

West
-----
Iowa
Kansas
Missouri
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Texas

(02-21-2015 11:14 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 10:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I would go Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois. It is obviously a top heavy division but so what right?

You then have Michigan, Michigan State, UConn and Northwestern together.

That leaves the Big Ten with Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota in the West.

It's ugly but it's doable. I still like the set up better after getting Oklahoma and Kansas.

I agree. I started to get uncomfortable with the pod placement when thinking about the addition of 2 more eastern teams. But for now, I'm locked in on thinking "East".

Why?
I just don't see any schools left in the east that "look" like B1G schools.
If the B1G really wanted "east" a move to 18 with BC, Syracuse, Pitt and West Virginia would sew up the region. Can't stomach West Virginia? Then try Kansas or Missouri in the west for balance.

Probably not related but the realignment boards at bayloyfans.com and tech sideline.com (Virginia Tech) seem to be very active.

(02-22-2015 12:48 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Probably not related but the realignment boards at bayloyfans.com and tech sideline.com (Virginia Tech) seem to be very active.

did you mean baylorfans.com ?

(02-21-2015 05:12 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 11:44 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(02-19-2015 04:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-19-2015 04:10 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  While I don't believe GORs are as iron clad as others do, I believe it is strong enough to keep a single school from leaving. With that in mind, I think it would take a group exodus to start the next round before the GORs expire.

If any P5 program wants to move, there will be rumblings a few years before a GOR expires. A conference will ask its members to extend the GOR as they start to negotiate their next TV contract or TV extension, and if a school stalls instead of eagerly signing the GOR extension, then we'll know something is up.

Agreed.

But the original post offers an interesting "What If".

So, in that context and keeping in mind what you write above, it would most likely involve a P5 team that has a lot of value and the right conference willing to take them on. Maryland didn't balk at the ACC GOR because they hoped the B1G would invite them at some point in the future. They knew it was a done deal at that point in time, at least from the aspect of being assured a B1G invite.

So, the P5 teams of value that might at least consider a move when the current GORs start expiring are, of course, the usual suspects (in alpha order) - Clemson, FSU, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Texas, Virginia, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the top 2 P5 teams willing to move are probably Oklahoma (to any of PAC, B16, or SEC) as along as Oklahoma State can tag along (probably narrows it to the PAC as a result) and FSU but only to the SEC.

If either or both of those happen, then the other P5 teams of value from the ACC and/or the Big 12 will be more open to a possible move elsewhere.

Cheers,
Neil

Maryland didn't balk at the ACC's GoR because it did not pertain to them. They had already announced their move to the Big Ten so they were never a party to it. I don't recall any school changing conferences after signing a GoR.

You are right. They balked at raising the exit fee to $50 million plus. That was when the cat was out of the bag. Now, under the current situation, it will be the GOR renewals that will be the tell tale sign.

Cheers,
Neil

(02-19-2015 04:10 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  While I don't believe GORs are as iron clad as others do, I believe it is strong enough to keep a single school from leaving. With that in mind, I think it would take a group exodus to start the next round before the GORs expire.

This is not to suggest anyone is planning to break them, so don't read more into this the is there. but the big 12 GOR is less ironclad than the others, because it doesn't include all games. If a team did leave the big 12, for example, the conference would be left with the ugly choice of allowing the old team's games to be televised in Big 12 time slots, or convincing the network to not air their games, which would then revert the games back to that school's ownership under the tier 3 agreement and allow them to keep them. Oh and you must still pay the team an equal share of TV proceeds to keep their content under the GOR contract. That makes it ugly.

At least of a team left the big 10, PAC 12, or ACC, the league would retain all game rights (so long as they continue to pay then). Then they could bury the games on a conference network or syndication and still make money off them, while not showcasing their games in their time slots.

(02-22-2015 12:52 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 12:48 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Probably not related but the realignment boards at bayloyfans.com and tech sideline.com (Virginia Tech) seem to be very active.

did you mean baylorfans.com ?

I like that Baylor site, plenty of intelligent conversations.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2

With FOX holding Oklahoma's tier 3 rights, and ESPN holding the tier three rights for Kansas, Texas and the entire ACC and in order to avoid lots of long and drawn out lawsuits, the networks will have to get involved if anything happens before everybody's GORs expire.

If there is any P5 movement, it will be the BIG, ACC, SEC and PAC dividing up the BIG 12. It will give them more content for their own networks. However, I don't see it happening till the end of Big 12 GOR is up or ESPN gives up on the LHN.

Also, I could see those 4 conferences going to 18 or 20 schools each with two division of 9 or 10. It would involve taking some of the AAC and MWC to get to 72 to 80 teams. You play your eight or nine division games and meet the other division winner in the conference championship. Since you just need to win your division to get into the conference championship, it would allow schools to keep OOC rivalry games like Florida vs Fla St or ND vs USC. For olympic sports you could also just play your division to keep travel costs down. Any cross divisional games would be considered OOC.

The BIG and PAC would be one semi-final in the Rose, while the ACC and SEC would meet in the Orange or Sugar for the other semi-final. It keeps the playoff at 4, and makes the conference championships a defacto quarterfinal game. None of the major conferences get left out, like the BIG 12 this year.