(03-13-2015 12:23 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 09:57 AM)Lucy Wrote:  Most people I know are not willing to spend the money to fly to NYC, pay higher rates for hotels, have to pay for either a rental car + parking or for cabs/public transportation, higher rates for food (don't try to feed me any line about how you can eat for the same price that you can in other cities - I know people who live there & have visited). People would rather be in reasonable driving distance to the tourney city and have it be situated where you can stay in a wider area that is still easily accessible to the venue. For me, I will drive as far north as DC and as far south as Atlanta. Greensboro is centrally located for the conference & reaches a wider swath of ACC alums & fans. I think the plan to farm the tourney out for some years is good, but having the majority of years in Greensboro makes the most sense.

I am not willing to go to Greensboro to watch ACC basketball. I never went to the Big East Tournament, either, in the 17-18 years that ND was in the Big East.

So, New York or Greensboro is not the issue. I likely would not attend any non-ND/SU games even if the Tournament were held in New Orleans, 75 miles from my front door (even if the tickets let me see other games too---no interest). I would drive down for the ND and SU games, and then drive right back home.

I am not that interested in basketball in general nor am I interested in seeing the other ACC teams play each other.

(Except for Syracuse, I don't even watch other ACC teams play on television, let alone go somewhere 12 hours away to do so in person).

I wouldn't go to the ACC Tournament even if I had free hotel, air fare and game tickets, except to exclusively watch ND and SU play, and only the ND and SU games.

I will drive 7 hours to watch a series of ND baseball games, but am not willing to watch an event that is not ND centric, especially one in Greensboro, NC.

So, I have to disagree with Paco. If I went to an ACC Tournament, and I had to pay my own way, I would not want to see any other teams play but ND and SU (so it is not something that is remotely worth it to me for a number of reasons).

FIFY

(03-13-2015 03:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Look, I grew up near Pittsburgh and avidly follow its pro teams.

But despite that, I never had an interest in Pitt athletics.

Even though Pitt and ND have played each other about 70 times in football and were in the Big East together, I would never (and have not) watch a Pitt sporting event against anyone other than ND.

No offense to Pitt, I just have no interest.

Likewise, I would not expect a Pitt fan to watch ND play Arizona State or even care it is on TV.

I never understood how someone could be a fan of the Steelers, Pirates, and Penguins, but not Pitt. Makes no sense to me, at all, unless they are one of the dozen or so Duquesne fans left.

(03-13-2015 10:27 AM)ken d Wrote:  The same ticket that got you into the Duke-State game let you watch the Miami-Notre Dame game. But why would you want to? It's a surprise to me that so many stayed around. They sure weren't all Cane and Irish fans.

I guess the ACC just doesn't have that many basketball fans.

Personally I'd value MSG over any other possible venue. The only reason why is that it's friggan MSG (you know, the most famous arena in the world). A tourney at MSG just screams "BIG TIME." If it's not MSG, then I prefer destinations like D.C., Atlanta, or Charlotte. I do understand Lucy's point when it comes to things like prices and such, when it comes to NYC. That's a valid reason to why the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn isn't a logical destination for the tourney; if we're attempting to go to NYC, it's MSG or bust.

(03-13-2015 05:37 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Personally I'd value MSG over any other possible venue. The only reason why is that it's friggan MSG (you know, the most famous arena in the world). A tourney at MSG just screams "BIG TIME." If it's not MSG, then I prefer destinations like D.C., Atlanta, or Charlotte. I do understand Lucy's point when it comes to things like prices and such, when it comes to NYC. That's a valid reason to why the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn isn't a logical destination for the tourney; if we're attempting to go to NYC, it's MSG or bust.

Nothing beats MSG, but I've never been to Barclay's so I'll reserve judgement. Any of the above would beat Greensboro, to be honest.

(03-13-2015 05:37 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Personally I'd value MSG over any other possible venue. The only reason why is that it's friggan MSG (you know, the most famous arena in the world). A tourney at MSG just screams "BIG TIME." If it's not MSG, then I prefer destinations like D.C., Atlanta, or Charlotte. I do understand Lucy's point when it comes to things like prices and such, when it comes to NYC. That's a valid reason to why the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn isn't a logical destination for the tourney; if we're attempting to go to NYC, it's MSG or bust.

Anyone who knows anything about college basketball knows that Greensboro Coliseum screams "BIG TIME," as much as or more than Madison Square Garden.

(03-13-2015 10:03 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 05:37 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Personally I'd value MSG over any other possible venue. The only reason why is that it's friggan MSG (you know, the most famous arena in the world). A tourney at MSG just screams "BIG TIME." If it's not MSG, then I prefer destinations like D.C., Atlanta, or Charlotte. I do understand Lucy's point when it comes to things like prices and such, when it comes to NYC. That's a valid reason to why the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn isn't a logical destination for the tourney; if we're attempting to go to NYC, it's MSG or bust.

Anyone who knows anything about college basketball knows that Greensboro Coliseum screams "BIG TIME," as much as or more than Madison Square Garden.

Homer Post Of The YEAR!

(03-13-2015 10:12 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:03 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 05:37 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Personally I'd value MSG over any other possible venue. The only reason why is that it's friggan MSG (you know, the most famous arena in the world). A tourney at MSG just screams "BIG TIME." If it's not MSG, then I prefer destinations like D.C., Atlanta, or Charlotte. I do understand Lucy's point when it comes to things like prices and such, when it comes to NYC. That's a valid reason to why the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn isn't a logical destination for the tourney; if we're attempting to go to NYC, it's MSG or bust.

Anyone who knows anything about college basketball knows that Greensboro Coliseum screams "BIG TIME," as much as or more than Madison Square Garden.

Homer Post Of The YEAR!

Please join the Big Twelve. Really. We're playing Tournament games on Tuesday because of you people. It's ridiculous. If you don't even appreciate what you're involved in then GTFO.

(03-13-2015 05:16 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 03:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Look, I grew up near Pittsburgh and avidly follow its pro teams.

But despite that, I never had an interest in Pitt athletics.

Even though Pitt and ND have played each other about 70 times in football and were in the Big East together, I would never (and have not) watch a Pitt sporting event against anyone other than ND.

No offense to Pitt, I just have no interest.

Likewise, I would not expect a Pitt fan to watch ND play Arizona State or even care it is on TV.

I never understood how someone could be a fan of the Steelers, Pirates, and Penguins, but not Pitt. Makes no sense to me, at all, unless they are one of the dozen or so Duquesne fans left.

Third generation ND fan. Pitt was always an opponent, thats all.

I never had any interest in West Virginia (I lived 25 miles from Morgantown) or Penn State, either.

(03-13-2015 10:18 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:12 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:03 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 05:37 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Personally I'd value MSG over any other possible venue. The only reason why is that it's friggan MSG (you know, the most famous arena in the world). A tourney at MSG just screams "BIG TIME." If it's not MSG, then I prefer destinations like D.C., Atlanta, or Charlotte. I do understand Lucy's point when it comes to things like prices and such, when it comes to NYC. That's a valid reason to why the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn isn't a logical destination for the tourney; if we're attempting to go to NYC, it's MSG or bust.

Anyone who knows anything about college basketball knows that Greensboro Coliseum screams "BIG TIME," as much as or more than Madison Square Garden.

Homer Post Of The YEAR!

Please join the Big Twelve. Really. We're playing Tournament games on Tuesday because of you people. It's ridiculous. If you don't even appreciate what you're involved in then GTFO.

LOL, Dont get upset with me because you make such a ridiculous statement and I call you out on it. You also might want to show some appreciation for "you people" agreeing to come to this league to help it get its payout to a respectable amount. Remember, when SU and Pitt came to the league the leagues payout increased by $4 million per school.

(03-13-2015 10:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:18 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:12 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:03 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 05:37 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Personally I'd value MSG over any other possible venue. The only reason why is that it's friggan MSG (you know, the most famous arena in the world). A tourney at MSG just screams "BIG TIME." If it's not MSG, then I prefer destinations like D.C., Atlanta, or Charlotte. I do understand Lucy's point when it comes to things like prices and such, when it comes to NYC. That's a valid reason to why the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn isn't a logical destination for the tourney; if we're attempting to go to NYC, it's MSG or bust.

Anyone who knows anything about college basketball knows that Greensboro Coliseum screams "BIG TIME," as much as or more than Madison Square Garden.

Homer Post Of The YEAR!

Please join the Big Twelve. Really. We're playing Tournament games on Tuesday because of you people. It's ridiculous. If you don't even appreciate what you're involved in then GTFO.

LOL, Dont get upset with me because you make such a dumb statement and I call you out on it. You also might want to show some appreciation for "you people" agreeing to come to this league to help it get its payout to a respectable amount. Remember, when SU and Pitt came to the league the leagues payout increased by $4 million per school.

I'm not upset with you, I'm tired of former Big East fans delusions. It is a fact that a true student of college basketball history would consider Greensboro Coliseum as having as important or more important a place in the history of the sport of college basketball as Madison Square Garden. That is a fact.

(03-13-2015 10:48 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:18 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:12 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:03 PM)opossum Wrote:  Anyone who knows anything about college basketball knows that Greensboro Coliseum screams "BIG TIME," as much as or more than Madison Square Garden.

Homer Post Of The YEAR!

Please join the Big Twelve. Really. We're playing Tournament games on Tuesday because of you people. It's ridiculous. If you don't even appreciate what you're involved in then GTFO.

LOL, Dont get upset with me because you make such a dumb statement and I call you out on it. You also might want to show some appreciation for "you people" agreeing to come to this league to help it get its payout to a respectable amount. Remember, when SU and Pitt came to the league the leagues payout increased by $4 million per school.

I'm not upset with you, I'm tired of former Big East fans delusions. It is a fact that a true student of college basketball history would consider Greensboro Coliseum as having as important or more important a place in the history of the sport of college basketball as Madison Square Garden. That is a fact.

That is an OPINION. Based on your opinion on what a "true student of College basketball history." Also, what you are now saying is quite a bit different than your original statement:

"Anyone who knows anything about college basketball knows that Greensboro Coliseum screams "BIG TIME," as much as or more than Madison Square Garden."

But I'm done with this silly debate. The BE that we BE fans knew and loved, no longer exists. Now we are all ACC fans. But we wont let anyone try to take away from what the BE was.

The Greensboro Coliseum was the first venue that ever sold out a final four game/tournament. The ticket demand in Greensboro forced the NCAA to institute a lottery system for ticket distribution. That was in 1974 when the final four in Greensboro consisted of NC State, UCLA, Kansas and Marquette.

(03-14-2015 12:21 AM)XLance Wrote:  The Greensboro Coliseum was the first venue that ever sold out a final four game/tournament. The ticket demand in Greensboro forced the NCAA to institute a lottery system for ticket distribution. That was in 1974 when the final four in Greensboro consisted of NC State, UCLA, Kansas and Marquette.

Nobody is doubting the history. We're only doubting whether it is bigger than the biggest stage in basketball. It isn't.

Greensboro is a large venue, a great piece of history, and the home to the greatest basketball conference in the land, but that's where the line is. MSG was, and hopefully will be, much more.

(03-12-2015 11:09 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-12-2015 10:09 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  I was at the tournament today. I was expecting a fair number of Louisville fans but more than half of the Louisville section was UNC and NCSU and Duke fans. Obviously, many Louisville fans bought tickets only to sell on Stubhub or other services. At the Notre Dame-Miami game most of the Notre Dame fans present were either in the pep band or the families of players and fans. Of course that was better than Miami. The families of their players and coaches hardly showed up at all. There were almost no Pitt fans there either.

I thought Louisville had a large and dedicated fan base. Where were they today? Did Louisville fans show up for the Big East tournament? Notre Dame has one of its best teams in many years. Where were their fans today? Did Notre Dame fans show up at MSG in numbers?

I've read a lot of whining by "new ACC" members about how special it was at MSG and how they deserve to have the tournament in NYC. Did they experience that specialness over the TV or do they have so little dedication that they only show up for a tournament at MSG?

I've been to the ACC tournament in DC, Landover, MD (just outside DC), Atlanta and Tampa. Every time well over half of the crowd was fans of NC schools. I predict now that it will be the same in Brooklyn. It might even be the same if the tournament were played at the Yum Center!

You're not impressing me, "new ACC."

It is basketball. You won't see many ND fans go to Greensboro to watch basketball.

There would be more in New York City due to proximity but not in droves.

ND only drew about 7,500 or so this year at home for basketball for a team that now sits at 27-5.

For ND fans, basketball is something to watch on TV once in a while between football seasons.

ND fans, and the rest of us, will be watching ND basketball a little more. Congrats on the win over Duke. Beat UNC for the title!

(03-13-2015 10:03 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 05:37 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Personally I'd value MSG over any other possible venue. The only reason why is that it's friggan MSG (you know, the most famous arena in the world). A tourney at MSG just screams "BIG TIME." If it's not MSG, then I prefer destinations like D.C., Atlanta, or Charlotte. I do understand Lucy's point when it comes to things like prices and such, when it comes to NYC. That's a valid reason to why the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn isn't a logical destination for the tourney; if we're attempting to go to NYC, it's MSG or bust.

Anyone who knows anything about college basketball knows that Greensboro Coliseum screams "BIG TIME," as much as or more than Madison Square Garden.

Anyone that's been outside of Carolina knows that statement is hilarious.

The ACC was moving the tournament in and out of "BIG TIME" before any Big East teams showed up.

Not having a dog in this hunt, I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway:

1. If you saw any of the Big East tournament games you saw a (nearly) sold out MGS - and these teams aren't as good as the ACC. A trip to NYC is, and will always be, more exciting than a trip to Greensboro in spite of the history.

2. You have too many teams in your tournament. Eliminate the bottom 5, give the top 2 byes and make it relevant. The fans from your bottom teams didn't show up and for good reason - they didn't have a chance.

(03-14-2015 09:33 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Not having a dog in this hunt, I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway:

1. If you saw any of the Big East tournament games you saw a (nearly) sold out MGS - and these teams aren't as good as the ACC. A trip to NYC is, and will always be, more exciting than a trip to Greensboro in spite of the history.

2. You have too many teams in your tournament. Eliminate the bottom 5, give the top 2 byes and make it relevant. The fans from your bottom teams didn't show up and for good reason - they didn't have a chance.

Most of the top conferences have too many teams in their tournament. I would go you one better. I would only include the top 8 teams, no byes, for a three day tournament. No doubt that would piss off a lot of fans from the other 7 teams, but you are right. They have little chance to even make it to the semifinals, much less the weekend.

As it stands now, if you are one of those weak teams, spending two or three weekdays in Greensboro doesn't sound very appealing. Not that the weekends are more exciting for anything but the hoops either. And frankly, other than restaurants and hotels, Charlotte isn't much different. If you give me an 8 team tourney, I could live with NYC. But the geographic center of the league is still NC. So maybe a rotation of MSG, Greensboro, Barclay's and Charlotte would be a good compromise.

BTW, this year, five of the top 8 seeds were within easy driving distance of either NC site, and the other three weren't near any potential tourney site.

The biggest problem I would see with an 8 team ACC tournament is ticket distribution. If you don't know in advance who is in and who is out, it's hard to pre-sell tickets. But, it was clear pretty early on that five schools would be in it and four schools would be out of it. That left 6 teams with a nearly equal chance of making the field, and that was true practically until the final week of the regular season.

That would be a tough nut to crack.

(03-14-2015 10:11 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-14-2015 09:33 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Not having a dog in this hunt, I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway:

1. If you saw any of the Big East tournament games you saw a (nearly) sold out MGS - and these teams aren't as good as the ACC. A trip to NYC is, and will always be, more exciting than a trip to Greensboro in spite of the history.

2. You have too many teams in your tournament. Eliminate the bottom 5, give the top 2 byes and make it relevant. The fans from your bottom teams didn't show up and for good reason - they didn't have a chance.

Most of the top conferences have too many teams in their tournament. I would go you one better. I would only include the top 8 teams, no byes, for a three day tournament. No doubt that would piss off a lot of fans from the other 7 teams, but you are right. They have little chance to even make it to the semifinals, much less the weekend.

As it stands now, if you are one of those weak teams, spending two or three weekdays in Greensboro doesn't sound very appealing. Not that the weekends are more exciting for anything but the hoops either. And frankly, other than restaurants and hotels, Charlotte isn't much different. If you give me an 8 team tourney, I could live with NYC. But the geographic center of the league is still NC. So maybe a rotation of MSG, Greensboro, Barclay's and Charlotte would be a good compromise.

BTW, this year, five of the top 8 seeds were within easy driving distance of either NC site, and the other three weren't near any potential tourney site.

The biggest problem I would see with an 8 team ACC tournament is ticket distribution. If you don't know in advance who is in and who is out, it's hard to pre-sell tickets. But, it was clear pretty early on that five schools would be in it and four schools would be out of it. That left 6 teams with a nearly equal chance of making the field, and that was true practically until the final week of the regular season.

That would be a tough nut to crack.

It wouldn't work in the ACC. The tournament determines the conference champion. In effect the regular season becomes the pre-season and you couldn't exclude anyone from playing the championship series.
All (except football) ACC championships are settled by conference tournaments that include every participant.

Well I guess the last 2 losses Louisville had are to the Last 2 Standing schools. UNC and ND. Go ACC. The New ACC is ACCelerating into the NCAA. Good Luck !