Two, don't forget Norfolk State or Hampton (whichever one you forgot).

(03-24-2015 12:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:31 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:30 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 11:26 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Personally, for me, I do not understand how VCU doesn't have a football team let alone are not in one of the G5 conferences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Co...University

Almost 32,000 students as of 2012. It is a public research university. It is strongly ranked in academics and in research. VCU is a gem that is yet to be mined. This leaves me to believe that politics are holding VCU back.

The same reason George Mason, in a mostly vacant D.C. market, doesn't have one. They should have started one right after their Final Four run.

I figured it has something to do with ODU having more political clout than VCU. They are rivals after all. Well, not so sure if that rivalry will be maintained as ODU rises but there is history there.

Well Richmond is well established in Richmond with a history in the Southern Conference with the ACC schools. ODU's metro competition is an HBCU.

Yes and Richmond is a decent replacement as a basketball rival but the history is with ODU. Seeing the stats for VCU makes it hard for me to believe that they wouldn't want to upgrade in similar fashion as ODU is. I don't know what the possibility and logistics are for them to build a stadium but it is the largest public school in the State. The fact that it doesn't have a football team seems off.

(03-23-2015 04:14 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Would any of those options really be better?

Certainly not the AAC.

(03-24-2015 10:04 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  The only one that really makes sense is the AAC as a non-football member- easy travel to Tulsa and SMU - Tulsa closer than nearest MVC partner.

Even removing the Catholic thing - the diff between WSU and Butler is miles and miles of academic - Butler is a Top 100 school, WSU isn't even ranked by US News.

WSU basketball is darn good for now but the not been academically rank may hurt them from being contacted by the AAC, IMO.

Wichita going to the AAC would be a lateral move at best. Big East would be perfect

(03-24-2015 01:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Yes and Richmond is a decent replacement as a basketball rival but the history is with ODU. Seeing the stats for VCU makes it hard for me to believe that they wouldn't want to upgrade in similar fashion as ODU is. I don't know what the possibility and logistics are for them to build a stadium but it is the largest public school in the State. The fact that it doesn't have a football team seems off.

VCU's health system is a customer so I'm familiar with the university.

The logistics for football are terrible because of the lack of available space on or adjacent to campus. Sports such as soccer have practice and game facilities off-campus. I'm not sure how they would accommodate football.

VCU grew by about 1/3 to its present size during the 90s and 00s. Eugene Trani who was VCU president for those two decades was vocally hostile to the idea of sponsoring football. That's why VCU doesn't sponsor football. The current president isn't necessarily hostile to the idea, but he doesn't appear to be a proponent of it either.

Also, Richmond is not a replacement rival for ODU. VCU and Richmond have played annually since the earliest days of VCU basketball. I'm not sure one rivalry is more intense than the other, but the rivalry with Richmond is not secondary to the one with ODU.

Look at the MVC membership. You don't think WSU would like to be in a conference with Memphis, Temple, Cinci, SMU, UConn? UConn won two NC in the last 4 years, and you consider the AAC a 'lateral move'?

The AAC would be a terrific upgrade for WSU, but from what Aresco is saying there are no expansion plans, and no discussion of a non-FB membership. So moot point.

(03-24-2015 02:14 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Yes and Richmond is a decent replacement as a basketball rival but the history is with ODU. Seeing the stats for VCU makes it hard for me to believe that they wouldn't want to upgrade in similar fashion as ODU is. I don't know what the possibility and logistics are for them to build a stadium but it is the largest public school in the State. The fact that it doesn't have a football team seems off.

VCU's health system is a customer so I'm familiar with the university.

The logistics for football are terrible because of the lack of available space on or adjacent to campus. Sports such as soccer have practice and game facilities off-campus. I'm not sure how they would accommodate football.

VCU grew by about 1/3 to its present size during the 90s and 00s. Eugene Trani who was VCU president for those two decades was vocally hostile to the idea of sponsoring football. That's why VCU doesn't sponsor football. The current president isn't necessarily hostile to the idea, but he doesn't appear to be a proponent of it either.

Also, Richmond is not a replacement rival for ODU. VCU and Richmond have played annually since the earliest days of VCU basketball. I'm not sure one rivalry is more intense than the other, but the rivalry with Richmond is not secondary to the one with ODU.

Very enlightening, thank you. Perhaps ODU's football program's returns might change the President's mind someday.

The problem of where to put a Stadium though, that is truly a major problem.

(03-24-2015 03:11 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 02:14 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Yes and Richmond is a decent replacement as a basketball rival but the history is with ODU. Seeing the stats for VCU makes it hard for me to believe that they wouldn't want to upgrade in similar fashion as ODU is. I don't know what the possibility and logistics are for them to build a stadium but it is the largest public school in the State. The fact that it doesn't have a football team seems off.

VCU's health system is a customer so I'm familiar with the university.

The logistics for football are terrible because of the lack of available space on or adjacent to campus. Sports such as soccer have practice and game facilities off-campus. I'm not sure how they would accommodate football.

VCU grew by about 1/3 to its present size during the 90s and 00s. Eugene Trani who was VCU president for those two decades was vocally hostile to the idea of sponsoring football. That's why VCU doesn't sponsor football. The current president isn't necessarily hostile to the idea, but he doesn't appear to be a proponent of it either.

Also, Richmond is not a replacement rival for ODU. VCU and Richmond have played annually since the earliest days of VCU basketball. I'm not sure one rivalry is more intense than the other, but the rivalry with Richmond is not secondary to the one with ODU.

Very enlightening, thank you. Perhaps ODU's football program's returns might change the President's mind someday.

The problem of where to put a Stadium though, that is truly a major problem.

If they will be playing FCS football, the stadium would have a smaller footprint and could give more options.

(03-24-2015 02:09 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  Wichita going to the AAC would be a lateral move at best. Big East would be perfect

Don't be silly.

(03-24-2015 03:11 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 02:14 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Yes and Richmond is a decent replacement as a basketball rival but the history is with ODU. Seeing the stats for VCU makes it hard for me to believe that they wouldn't want to upgrade in similar fashion as ODU is. I don't know what the possibility and logistics are for them to build a stadium but it is the largest public school in the State. The fact that it doesn't have a football team seems off.

VCU's health system is a customer so I'm familiar with the university.

The logistics for football are terrible because of the lack of available space on or adjacent to campus. Sports such as soccer have practice and game facilities off-campus. I'm not sure how they would accommodate football.

VCU grew by about 1/3 to its present size during the 90s and 00s. Eugene Trani who was VCU president for those two decades was vocally hostile to the idea of sponsoring football. That's why VCU doesn't sponsor football. The current president isn't necessarily hostile to the idea, but he doesn't appear to be a proponent of it either.

Also, Richmond is not a replacement rival for ODU. VCU and Richmond have played annually since the earliest days of VCU basketball. I'm not sure one rivalry is more intense than the other, but the rivalry with Richmond is not secondary to the one with ODU.

Very enlightening, thank you. Perhaps ODU's football program's returns might change the President's mind someday.

The problem of where to put a Stadium though, that is truly a major problem.

ODU had an existing old 20k seat stadium on campus, which AFAIK was in halfway decent physical condition when the decision was made to add football. VCU is about a mile away from a decrepit 20k municipal stadium that was controlled by UR until four years ago. The logistics were much less of a barrier for ODU than they'll ever be for VCU.

Trani was opposed to football but not sports in general. He wanted VCU to focus on basketball and it was under his leadership that VCU managed to rebuild the basketball program after VCU was demoted to the CAA when the Metro Conference dissolved. Football if it ever happens at VCU won't arrive until well into the future. Money, facilities, and not making Smart reconsider VCU's commitment to basketball and his commitment to VCU being the biggest reasons IMO.

(03-23-2015 09:59 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 09:16 PM)DexterDevil Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 06:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 06:16 PM)DexterDevil Wrote:  They need to be added to the big east with dayton

As soon as they convert the school to a Catholic private university the Big East will be all over them.

Butler?

Private and religious affiliated.

Big East membership requirements are to make sure nobody watches and they keep their 0-.3 tv ratings strong. The also must be a religious small private school.

WSU also boasts an excellent baseball team that has competed at the highest level - for what its worth.

From wikipedia-
The Shockers have made the College World Series seven times, winning the national championship in 1989.[1] Wichita State has the fourth highest winning percentage in NCAA Division I baseball history, trailing only Texas, Florida State, and Miami (FL).[2]

(03-24-2015 01:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:31 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:30 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 11:26 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Personally, for me, I do not understand how VCU doesn't have a football team let alone are not in one of the G5 conferences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Co...University

Almost 32,000 students as of 2012. It is a public research university. It is strongly ranked in academics and in research. VCU is a gem that is yet to be mined. This leaves me to believe that politics are holding VCU back.

The same reason George Mason, in a mostly vacant D.C. market, doesn't have one. They should have started one right after their Final Four run.

I figured it has something to do with ODU having more political clout than VCU. They are rivals after all. Well, not so sure if that rivalry will be maintained as ODU rises but there is history there.

Well Richmond is well established in Richmond with a history in the Southern Conference with the ACC schools. ODU's metro competition is an HBCU.

Yes and Richmond is a decent replacement as a basketball rival but the history is with ODU. Seeing the stats for VCU makes it hard for me to believe that they wouldn't want to upgrade in similar fashion as ODU is. I don't know what the possibility and logistics are for them to build a stadium but it is the largest public school in the State. The fact that it doesn't have a football team seems off.

What I was saying was that Richmond was already in Richmond with football, so its not as easy for VCU as for ODU.

(03-24-2015 02:49 PM)Bull Wrote:  Look at the MVC membership. You don't think WSU would like to be in a conference with Memphis, Temple, Cinci, SMU, UConn? UConn won two NC in the last 4 years, and you consider the AAC a 'lateral move'?

The AAC would be a terrific upgrade for WSU, but from what Aresco is saying there are no expansion plans, and no discussion of a non-FB membership. So moot point.

Yes.

Wichita might even want to consider CUSA where it can package deal with Missouri St.

CUSA West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, SoMiss, LaTech, Missouri St, Wichita St*
CUSA East: FAU, FIU, Old Dominion, Charlotte, Marshall, WKU, MTSU, UAB*

If CUSA wants more attention in hoops grabbing Mo State and Wichita is the way to do it, IMO.

Do it now in advance of the next CUSA TV contract to spice up the lineup.

Navy. Thank you guys for correcting me on that. Tulsa didn't sound right, but for the life of me I was drawing a complete blank. Anyhow, adding ONE basketball school to offset that would make sense...however, to add several basketball only schools would only be repeating the mistakes of the Big East.

(03-25-2015 06:12 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  Navy. Thank you guys for correcting me on that. Tulsa didn't sound right, but for the life of me I was drawing a complete blank. Anyhow, adding ONE basketball school to offset that would make sense...however, to add several basketball only schools would only be repeating the mistakes of the Big East.

I disagree on your version of mistake. I think there was a survival element going on in the BE. I also think the original CUSA worked as well as it could under the circumstances, and it was a hybrid with 4 (MU, SLU, DePaul, Charlotte). WSU and 2 others could work just fine.

As for the BE,

1) The BE was formed for basketball at a time when the eastern independent schools chose not to get together to form a football conference. When Penn St. tried to form a FB conference, many on this board have stated that Penn St. tried to do so on terms that were favorable to Penn St., and such terms were rejected by other eastern indies.

2) When independent football began to die out, the BE FB and NonFB schools agreed to sponsor football rather than splitting. We can question how they went about doing it, but that was the choice.

3) When the ACC came calling for Miami and VT, the NCAA rules at the time required 6 schools together for 5 years to be considered a conference. With Temple being kicked out, there were 6 FB schools, 5 NonFB schools and ND. The NonFB schools did not meet the criteria of a conference. ND sided with the NonFB schools, giving the NonFB schools 6 schools and allowing them to remain a conference. This meant the FB schools would have to withdraw from the BE, form a new conference and give up millions in BB credits. The FB schools were not interested in giving up that much $$$, and the NonFB schools were not interested in being left in such a weakened position going forward.

4) The BE compromised with the 8-8 format with a future split in mind (including BB credits) after 5 years, a get out of jail free card if you will. The problem (or mistake) was the FB schools not splitting after 5 years because either they didn't find 2-4 other FB schools they could agree among each other to be paired with, or they were working on landing spots. Either way, the FB schools preferred status quo to walking away as a group.

5) The attempted compromises afterward (TCU, Villanova upgrade fiasco) couldn't bridge the gap. Once the schools that the NonFB schools wanted to be with were gone (Syracuse, Pitt, UofL), the NonFB schools executed the get out of jail free card, paid UConn, Cincy and USF for the name, etc. and moved on.

I think the BE overall knew it was on borrowed time after the first ACC raid and did what it could to survive for the next 5 years so that everyone could walk away and be an NCAA conference. They didn't walk away after 5 years though, and the chaotic way things split were unfortunate. But it seems pretty clear that when the 8-8 groupings were originally made, it was with the understanding that a split was coming.

(03-24-2015 01:56 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 10:04 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  The only one that really makes sense is the AAC as a non-football member- easy travel to Tulsa and SMU - Tulsa closer than nearest MVC partner.

Even removing the Catholic thing - the diff between WSU and Butler is miles and miles of academic - Butler is a Top 100 school, WSU isn't even ranked by US News.

WSU basketball is darn good for now but the not been academically rank may hurt them from being contacted by the AAC, IMO.

No point in beating that drum. Academics is not going to be the reason anyone is not admitted into the AAC.

I absolutely guarantee you that if BYU only offered Physical Education as a diploma you guys would still add them.

(03-25-2015 06:12 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  Navy. Thank you guys for correcting me on that. Tulsa didn't sound right, but for the life of me I was drawing a complete blank. Anyhow, adding ONE basketball school to offset that would make sense...however, to add several basketball only schools would only be repeating the mistakes of the Big East.

How? VCU, Wichita, and Dayton in no way will ever amount to the likes of the Big East schools. They are great basketball programs and will definitely bring value to any conference they are in but those schools are not exactly storied power programs in basketball.

In my opinion what the AAC gains from adding them is more meat to the conference. Even the previous season you essentially had a conference where half the teams were terrible and half the teams were elite to good. There not really a decent middle group of schools.

I don't think anyone would expect WSU to be going undefeated every year, but it helps the conference when you have more teams that average less than 10 losses.

I think you're wrong about Dayton, they have decades of history and been to the Elite 8 in at least three different decades. Otherwise, spot on.