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Libertygrad01 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Conference Realignment News
It's 194 pages of people making fun of BJ and personal conversations that have little to nothing to do with conference realignment.

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04-08-2015 09:21 AM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Conference Realignment News
(04-08-2015 09:21 AM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  It's 194 pages of people making fun of BJ and personal conversations that have little to nothing to do with conference realignment.

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That's true about the rhetoric and how strongly others from other boards feel compelled to reply, most times stating their personal beliefs and judgments rather than a sound argument of why or why not.
04-08-2015 10:25 AM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Conference Realignment News
Lawsuit is possible, but it could lead to significant blowback and teams refusing to schedule you. NCAA can still enforce the 4 FBS Home game rule per year, conference or not. That could lead to major issues.
04-08-2015 12:52 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Conference Realignment News
(04-08-2015 12:52 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Lawsuit is possible, but it could lead to significant blowback and teams refusing to schedule you. NCAA can still enforce the 4 FBS Home game rule per year, conference or not. That could lead to major issues.

I agree which is why I feel a lawsuit is the absolute last option. If so we better get used to playing against UMass and Army. Hopefully for our sake NMSU and Idaho will be options as well among others.
04-08-2015 01:15 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Conference Realignment News
(04-08-2015 12:52 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Lawsuit is possible, but it could lead to significant blowback and teams refusing to schedule you. NCAA can still enforce the 4 FBS Home game rule per year, conference or not. That could lead to major issues.
The court challenge would be against the rules and regs established by the governing body of the NCAA, not against the individual schools. That would incredibly unwise to include in a suit the teams you are trying to join to be a member of their club.

The challenge would need to be carefully crafted not to create divisions or hardships for any FBS schools. We can hope that an invite comes soon for Liberty. If not, and if there are no other options, then Liberty has only one option. To challenge the current structure.
04-08-2015 04:10 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Conference Realignment News
SBC situation will be very interesting if USA gets the invite. It would leave the league with 10 and 10, and they might just stick with that. Or, the league could make a big push at JMU before the Virginia law comes into effect, and Troy to double them up with a Missouri State type. Allowing the ability to dump Idaho free of charge.

if JMU was to balk again, you might see an App State begin to loudly push for Liberty for travel reasons. Mountaineers are not anti Liberty right now, but they also have no desire to be the team that jumps out and says "Liberty would be a great member of the SBC" because it could lead to problems down the road.
04-08-2015 11:11 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Conference Realignment News
(04-08-2015 11:11 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  SBC situation will be very interesting if USA gets the invite. It would leave the league with 10 and 10, and they might just stick with that. Or, the league could make a big push at JMU before the Virginia law comes into effect, and Troy to double them up with a Missouri State type. Allowing the ability to dump Idaho free of charge.

if JMU was to balk again, you might see an App State begin to loudly push for Liberty for travel reasons. Mountaineers are not anti Liberty right now, but they also have no desire to be the team that jumps out and says "Liberty would be a great member of the SBC" because it could lead to problems down the road.
And if two or more, such as USA, ULL or ArkSt moved to CUSA, well we've got a near mutiny on our hands as Liberty would have to be in the mix. Lots of talk on the SBC board that USA is almost a done deal. And let's remember the U-AB issue that's also a key decision. Lots of moving parts that will effect a lot of G5 schools.
04-09-2015 05:44 AM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Conference Realignment News
(04-08-2015 11:11 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  SBC situation will be very interesting if USA gets the invite. It would leave the league with 10 and 10, and they might just stick with that. Or, the league could make a big push at JMU before the Virginia law comes into effect, and Troy to double them up with a Missouri State type. Allowing the ability to dump Idaho free of charge.

if JMU was to balk again, you might see an App State begin to loudly push for Liberty for travel reasons. Mountaineers are not anti Liberty right now, but they also have no desire to be the team that jumps out and says "Liberty would be a great member of the SBC" because it could lead to problems down the road.

Thanks for the update. I understand we aren't a frontrunner for the Sun Belt but maybe with a little luck we could be. Hopefully we get the call and can be part of the solution that puts the Sun Belt over the top. As you know, we are all chomping at the bit for FBS so please excuse our teenage-girl-like giddiness over any pro-FBS Liberty rumor.
04-09-2015 06:00 AM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #29
Conference Realignment News
(04-09-2015 05:44 AM)NewTimes Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 11:11 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  SBC situation will be very interesting if USA gets the invite. It would leave the league with 10 and 10, and they might just stick with that. Or, the league could make a big push at JMU before the Virginia law comes into effect, and Troy to double them up with a Missouri State type. Allowing the ability to dump Idaho free of charge.

if JMU was to balk again, you might see an App State begin to loudly push for Liberty for travel reasons. Mountaineers are not anti Liberty right now, but they also have no desire to be the team that jumps out and says "Liberty would be a great member of the SBC" because it could lead to problems down the road.
And if two or more, such as USA, ULL or ArkSt moved to CUSA, well we've got a near mutiny on our hands as Liberty would have to be in the mix. Lots of talk on the SBC board that USA is almost a done deal. And let's remember the U-AB issue that's also a key decision. Lots of moving parts that will effect a lot of G5 schools.

Neither astate nor ull is moving. Astate wants to wait out the new tv contract, ull is blocked by la tech
04-09-2015 08:42 AM
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army56mike Offline
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Post: #30
Conference Realignment News
It's funny how much realignment threads stay open. It's fun to dream I suppose. So many speak with authority and so few know anything at all. I love it. I wish there was an automatic "farm system" for college football. The bottom 25% of teams would be demoted from P5 to G5. The top 25% of G5 would move up to P5. The bottom 25% of G5 would drop to FCS level and the Top 25% of FCS would move to G5. Or something like that. Everyone would have a "chance" to compete on a fairly even playing field..... right?
04-09-2015 08:04 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Conference Realignment News
(04-09-2015 08:04 PM)army56mike Wrote:  It's funny how much realignment threads stay open. It's fun to dream I suppose. So many speak with authority and so few know anything at all. I love it. I wish there was an automatic "farm system" for college football. The bottom 25% of teams would be demoted from P5 to G5. The top 25% of G5 would move up to P5. The bottom 25% of G5 would drop to FCS level and the Top 25% of FCS would move to G5. Or something like that. Everyone would have a "chance" to compete on a fairly even playing field..... right?

That's a nice thought and all but conferences wouldn't agree to that. Conferences invite schools because they want them there and plan on it being a 100+ year decision. They would never agree to a willy-nilly European soccer league move up and move down scenario.
04-09-2015 08:13 PM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Conference Realignment News
Guys, I have no inside knowledge on the situation. But knowing the school as I do, we would have no qualms suing the NCAA to force our entry to FBS if we felt it was our last option. Obviously that is a path wrought with both obstacles and repercussions. It should also be noted that it would likely be successful since the NCAA would have little leg to stand on without endangering their anti-trust exemption. I suspect that we will never need to go this route. But the threat of legal action alone may work in our favor at some point. No one in Indianapolis wants to risk losing their license to print money.

So as it stands right now, we have three possible paths to FBS status outside of a lawsuit:

1. CUSA - I love how some of the posters on the Sun Belt board scoff at the idea that we would have any chance at membership in this league. I can tell you with certainty that that Banowsky and other league leadership have made trips to Lynchburg and do not have the same reservations about us that apparently the Sun Belt presidents possess. This is still a long shot but we are on a very short list.

2. Sun Belt - We are wearing them down with our availability. At some point, the schools in the west who have dug their heels into the sand (which incidentally does not include Texas State as some would assume) are going to start asking themselves, "Why was it again that we are supposed to hate these guys so much?" Even a touch of research on their part would determine that most of their objections are unfounded or flat out wrong. You get the sense that many in the legue are coming to that realization. Outside of the MAC & the Ivies, name a league where all of their members are institutionally similar. They need to get over the private vs. public concern that doesn't seem to bother any of the P5s.

3. New League - The death of the WAC leaves some wiggle room for the NCAA to allow a new league to emerge as a home for the disenfranchised (i.e. UMass, Idaho, NMSU) and those schools interested in FBS membership but without a proper landing place. Technically the WAC exemption to restart football is expiring and could be extended. A more likely scenario would be a new East Coast beginning. The west coast has the MWC, the North has the MAC, the South has both the Sun Belt and CUSA. The East Coast is the only region without a G5 option. A core of Liberty, JMU, Delaware, Eastern Kentucky, Jacksonville State could probably find another school or two to join the fray. With a regional league, perhaps even Richmond comes into play. Dare I suggest that if such a league were allowed and given some exemptions, it might even be more attractive than membership in some existing FBS leagues for certain schools. Once again, there are rules prohibiting this from occurring right now. Perhaps the biggest obstacle is the NCAA rule that would put all member schools of the new leaguewithout an auto bid for up to seven years in all sports aside from football. That rule is the poison pill without an exemption from the NCAA. As mentioned in option #2, fear of the threat of a lawsuit could provide appeasement without hurting any existing schools or leagues.
04-10-2015 09:25 AM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Conference Realignment News
In my opinion this is the most crucial thing that removes all credibility from the NCAA rule book. I'm not quoting, but its states that all FBS teams must achieve an average of 15K in attendance over a rolling two year average. They can use either ticket sales or gate count which ever method they prefer. I know everyone points their finger at GA State but they must have a big boy making up the difference, but take a look at this and you too will quickly realize there are teams who need to be held to the rules or drop to FCS. In turn opening up a few slots for those who can follow the rules.

http://www.minerrush.com/2015/4/7/814841...-belt-cusa
04-10-2015 03:01 PM
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Libertygrad01 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Conference Realignment News
Purple, I've seen this before and totally agree. An FCS team could use this against the NCAA if litigation ever occurred to point out they don't follow their own rules and once you're in the FBS club you're never getting kicked out.

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04-10-2015 03:51 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Conference Realignment News
(04-10-2015 03:01 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  In my opinion this is the most crucial thing that removes all credibility from the NCAA rule book. I'm not quoting, but its states that all FBS teams must achieve an average of 15K in attendance over a rolling two year average. They can use either ticket sales or gate count which ever method they prefer. I know everyone points their finger at GA State but they must have a big boy making up the difference, but take a look at this and you too will quickly realize there are teams who need to be held to the rules or drop to FCS. In turn opening up a few slots for those who can follow the rules.

http://www.minerrush.com/2015/4/7/814841...-belt-cusa

(04-10-2015 03:51 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  Purple, I've seen this before and totally agree. An FCS team could use this against the NCAA if litigation ever occurred to point out they don't follow their own rules and once you're in the FBS club you're never getting kicked out.

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LOL

LOL

LOL

Rules

...in college football 07-coffee3
04-11-2015 07:17 AM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Conference Realignment News
(04-11-2015 07:17 AM)panama Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 03:01 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  In my opinion this is the most crucial thing that removes all credibility from the NCAA rule book. I'm not quoting, but its states that all FBS teams must achieve an average of 15K in attendance over a rolling two year average. They can use either ticket sales or gate count which ever method they prefer. I know everyone points their finger at GA State but they must have a big boy making up the difference, but take a look at this and you too will quickly realize there are teams who need to be held to the rules or drop to FCS. In turn opening up a few slots for those who can follow the rules.

http://www.minerrush.com/2015/4/7/814841...-belt-cusa

(04-10-2015 03:51 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  Purple, I've seen this before and totally agree. An FCS team could use this against the NCAA if litigation ever occurred to point out they don't follow their own rules and once you're in the FBS club you're never getting kicked out.

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LOL

LOL

LOL

Rules

...in college football 07-coffee3
So does your LOL comment refer to the validity on the rule challenge about attendance or Liberty and others having a valid or invalid claim?
04-11-2015 07:49 AM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Conference Realignment News
(04-10-2015 09:25 AM)SlyFox Wrote:  Guys, I have no inside knowledge on the situation. But knowing the school as I do, we would have no qualms suing the NCAA to force our entry to FBS if we felt it was our last option. Obviously that is a path wrought with both obstacles and repercussions. It should also be noted that it would likely be successful since the NCAA would have little leg to stand on without endangering their anti-trust exemption. I suspect that we will never need to go this route. But the threat of legal action alone may work in our favor at some point. No one in Indianapolis wants to risk losing their license to print money.

So as it stands right now, we have three possible paths to FBS status outside of a lawsuit:

1. CUSA - I love how some of the posters on the Sun Belt board scoff at the idea that we would have any chance at membership in this league. I can tell you with certainty that that Banowsky and other league leadership have made trips to Lynchburg and do not have the same reservations about us that apparently the Sun Belt presidents possess. This is still a long shot but we are on a very short list.

2. Sun Belt - We are wearing them down with our availability. At some point, the schools in the west who have dug their heels into the sand (which incidentally does not include Texas State as some would assume) are going to start asking themselves, "Why was it again that we are supposed to hate these guys so much?" Even a touch of research on their part would determine that most of their objections are unfounded or flat out wrong. You get the sense that many in the legue are coming to that realization. Outside of the MAC & the Ivies, name a league where all of their members are institutionally similar. They need to get over the private vs. public concern that doesn't seem to bother any of the P5s.

3. New League - The death of the WAC leaves some wiggle room for the NCAA to allow a new league to emerge as a home for the disenfranchised (i.e. UMass, Idaho, NMSU) and those schools interested in FBS membership but without a proper landing place. Technically the WAC exemption to restart football is expiring and could be extended. A more likely scenario would be a new East Coast beginning. The west coast has the MWC, the North has the MAC, the South has both the Sun Belt and CUSA. The East Coast is the only region without a G5 option. A core of Liberty, JMU, Delaware, Eastern Kentucky, Jacksonville State could probably find another school or two to join the fray. With a regional league, perhaps even Richmond comes into play. Dare I suggest that if such a league were allowed and given some exemptions, it might even be more attractive than membership in some existing FBS leagues for certain schools. Once again, there are rules prohibiting this from occurring right now. Perhaps the biggest obstacle is the NCAA rule that would put all member schools of the new leaguewithout an auto bid for up to seven years in all sports aside from football. That rule is the poison pill without an exemption from the NCAA. As mentioned in option #2, fear of the threat of a lawsuit could provide appeasement without hurting any existing schools or leagues.
Sly, you have stated the position clearly of what may be Liberty's path without an invite. I have espoused many times the last resort path Liberty may have as its final choice. How long Liberty will sit by idly waiting if not invite comes is the question.

One, two, three years. It's hard to fathom it being longer than that.

But it will certainly be before GaSt is a winner. They're the poster child for a large market team without a clue of where they are at. Even with all the baggage LU has, they have a dedicated focus and admin support. Wisdom will prevail when leaders place a higher priority on program strength and stability than market size.
04-11-2015 08:04 AM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Conference Realignment News
Despite panama's very abrasive attitude, I would like Liberty to be in a conference with Georgia State. I could see a good rivalry and a beneficial relationship to "partnering" with them. They have a lot of potential like us and if we help each other realize our potential then we could help put our conference reach higher goals.

Look at what we've done this year in football by having both us and Coastal be good. We crapped the bed in basketball but Coastal won the conference tournament.
04-11-2015 09:20 AM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Conference Realignment News
It will be interesting to see which school has more fans in the Georgiadome this fall.

Back to the subject at hand, I doubt we ever actually have to file the lawsuit. Just the threat of impending litigation will force the NCAA to making an exception. Hopefully ot never comes to that point.
04-11-2015 04:26 PM
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Libertygrad01 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Conference Realignment News
The only possible reason I could see the NCAA making a stand is once they allow Liberty to go indy, every other school wanting to move up would have the right as well. Not that there's a ton of FCS school looking to go the indy route, but it may open the door for a few other schools.
04-11-2015 10:39 PM
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