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Thomas J. Crumpecker Offline
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Post: #1
Twitter Rumor
VT by 2030 around 50,000 students.....If so that has BIG 10 feel to it. So many games those Turkeys have playing against BIG in future. Still my peeps say VT is ALL ACC. What is the BIG feeling on this matter? Surely ACC cannot afford to lose a football school.
04-24-2015 05:47 AM
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SeaBlue Offline
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RE: Twitter Rumor
VT and UCONN are both knocking on the AAU door, which makes them my most likely candidates for #15 and #16.

Well, there's other reasons too, like UCONN is *the* state flagship while VT is in a good position to claim the upper hand (as you mentioned) in a very desirable state.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2015 07:36 AM by SeaBlue.)
04-24-2015 07:33 AM
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SeaBlue Offline
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RE: Twitter Rumor
So what Twitter rumors are you referring to. Flug and Dude, or others?
04-24-2015 08:41 AM
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Waterloo Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Twitter Rumor
VT doesn't need 50,000 students (undergrads and grads) to be Big Ten. I think being AAU and providing a new, growing market and fertile recruiting ground for the conference are necessary.
04-25-2015 11:24 AM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Twitter Rumor
I have told JR that I do believe Virginia Tech fits the Big Ten mold more so than Virginia does. I also think they fit the SEC mold better than Virginia does. If it wasn't for the Tech in the name, it would be obvious to everyone. That is why I think Virginia Tech goes well with a main dish of Georgia Tech in order to help soften the "Tech" issue with their name.
04-25-2015 04:05 PM
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BE4neva Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Twitter Rumor
(04-25-2015 04:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I have told JR that I do believe Virginia Tech fits the Big Ten mold more so than Virginia does. I also think they fit the SEC mold better than Virginia does. If it wasn't for the Tech in the name, it would be obvious to everyone. That is why I think Virginia Tech goes well with a main dish of Georgia Tech in order to help soften the "Tech" issue with their name.

I get why you like to talk up GT becuase of the market. But UGA is number 1 and that would be very much going against the B1G model of taking schools who dominate turf vs other college options. Take a look at this quick:

GT has 23k students and under 15k of that are undergrads.
UVA has 21k students and under 15k of that are undergrads.
Both have endowments over 1Bil and neither has a large project under way to increase the population or $ beyond normal growth.

Both are AAU. While sexy names and clearly p5 or p4 longterm easy adds, both seem a bit complacent and both also look to be non aggressive in the grand scheme of things.

VT has 30k students and 22k undergrads. The Endow is 800mil and has a projected goal to hit 1B in 2 years if I remember reading it correctly. They also have a way larger student population goal in the coming future. VT is not second fiddle to UVA in state. And since UVA isn't SEC, a step up by VT to the B1G makes them officially above them. The size and brand following already have them looking down at UVA.

UConn has 30k students and 18k undergrads. The Endow is $400mil and has a started goal of 1Bil by the end of the decade. It's already doubled the past couple years. They have a 40k students and 25k undergrads project currently under way building wise.

Before Rutgers was added, they merged a whole school to up numbers. They were already large but they did what they had to. They made the school profile very B1G like. They have like 60k now I think. MD has 37k students and 27k undergrads. Both have great Endowns and so on. Both are AAU

I think it's getting obvious what's going on. Even if you look at Mizzou, Kansas and one or 2 other realistic targets, some are ready like MD was and some need some profile tweaking, but no one else besides Vt and UConn are actually doing it. Those 2 for the past couple years have been building dorms on dorms and all these other things. Then on top of that they are easily the 2 hottest names non AAU with NCST being in the discussion also.

The B1G said get your profile in order to a bunch of schools years ago. Some of them were ready, some achieved the goal and some are working towards it. A few ignored it. We shall see what happens long term.

If you ask me, a realistic 16 is VT and UConn becuase you get 2 states coverage wise. Both have some play in DC/NYC, own states and are high research(and looking to be AAU). One brings a top notch quality fball program and one bball. It's a huge play on destroying the ACC north footprint for good.
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2015 08:22 PM by BE4neva.)
04-25-2015 08:18 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Twitter Rumor
(04-25-2015 08:18 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  
(04-25-2015 04:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I have told JR that I do believe Virginia Tech fits the Big Ten mold more so than Virginia does. I also think they fit the SEC mold better than Virginia does. If it wasn't for the Tech in the name, it would be obvious to everyone. That is why I think Virginia Tech goes well with a main dish of Georgia Tech in order to help soften the "Tech" issue with their name.

I get why you like to talk up GT becuase of the market. But UGA is number 1 and that would be very much going against the B1G model of taking schools who dominate turf vs other college options. Take a look at this quick:

GT has 23k students and under 15k of that are undergrads.
UVA has 21k students and under 15k of that are undergrads.
Both have endowments over 1Bil and neither has a large project under way to increase the population or $ beyond normal growth.

Both are AAU. While sexy names and clearly p5 or p4 longterm easy adds, both seem a bit complacent and both also look to be non aggressive in the grand scheme of things.

VT has 30k students and 22k undergrads. The Endow is 800mil and has a projected goal to hit 1B in 2 years if I remember reading it correctly. They also have a way larger student population goal in the coming future. VT is not second fiddle to UVA in state. And since UVA isn't SEC, a step up by VT to the B1G makes them officially above them. The size and brand following already have them looking down at UVA.

UConn has 30k students and 18k undergrads. The Endow is $400mil and has a started goal of 1Bil by the end of the decade. It's already doubled the past couple years. They have a 40k students and 25k undergrads project currently under way building wise.

Before Rutgers was added, they merged a whole school to up numbers. They were already large but they did what they had to. They made the school profile very B1G like. They have like 60k now I think. MD has 37k students and 27k undergrads. Both have great Endowns and so on. Both are AAU

I think it's getting obvious what's going on. Even if you look at Mizzou, Kansas and one or 2 other realistic targets, some are ready like MD was and some need some profile tweaking, but no one else besides Vt and UConn are actually doing it. Those 2 for the past couple years have been building dorms on dorms and all these other things. Then on top of that they are easily the 2 hottest names non AAU with NCST being in the discussion also.

The B1G said get your profile in order to a bunch of schools years ago. Some of them were ready, some achieved the goal and some are working towards it. A few ignored it. We shall see what happens long term.

If you ask me, a realistic 16 is VT and UConn becuase you get 2 states coverage wise. Both have some play in DC/NYC, own states and are high research(and looking to be AAU). One brings a top notch quality fball program and one bball. It's a huge play on destroying the ACC north footprint for good.

If the East Coast is where it happens then actually I would prefer Virginia Tech with partner NC State if we had to. I like UConn basketball but landing in both Virginia and North Carolina would be huge. It's not like NC State has a bad basketball pedigree. They did alright this year.

In regards to Georgia Tech, I have never had them listed in a scenario going to The Big Ten unless it was in my short lived Big Ten to 20 through the ACC scenario. That came about when the big 12 signed their GoR. When the ACC signed their own response GoR, that scenario died for me.

As far as Georgia Tech in The Big Ten goes, you have to understand Big Ten Ego. They think that Georgia Tech could become a very big deal in The Big Ten. Also, being right in Atlanta, travel isn't so bad. GT would have made for a great bridge that keeps the contiguous thing going for The Big Ten if they would have gone down through Virginia to North Carolina and all the way down to Florida State through GT.

As I said though, I don't think Virginia is a great fit for The Big Ten. North Carolina is a gem, and Delany's Alma Mater, but North Carolina State fits well enough. Their problem is that they have always lived in the shadow of UNC. Texas A&M knows all about that problem.
04-25-2015 09:22 PM
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Transic_nyc Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Twitter Rumor
(04-24-2015 05:47 AM)Thomas J. Crumpecker Wrote:  VT by 2030 around 50,000 students.....If so that has BIG 10 feel to it. So many games those Turkeys have playing against BIG in future. Still my peeps say VT is ALL ACC. What is the BIG feeling on this matter? Surely ACC cannot afford to lose a football school.

If the Big Ten could wait out at least a decade then it is possible that some truly quality candidates would be available. However, if the Big Ten intends to add before five years are up then I could only see safer choices as possible. A Mizzou-Kansas pairing is an example. This would obviously mean the Big 12 getting parceled out. If the ACC is truly safe then through the B12 is the only direction the Big Ten can go. UConn has issues that would hold them back. They're a better fit for the ACC (if several schools there can get over themselves and realize this).

This is just an example of how it would work out (you might move a piece here and there but the gist of it is this way):

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Arkansas
LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Alabama
Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, West Virginia
Auburn, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State
California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado
Texas Tech, TCU, Kansas State, Iowa State

Boston College, Connecticut, Syracuse, Miami
Louisville, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, Pittsburgh
North Carolina, North Carolina State, Duke, Virginia
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Baylor
Texas and Notre Dame football independent

Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern
Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, Illinois
Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue
Ohio State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

For the Big Ten, I changed a couple of pieces from what I had on the main realignment board, due to respecting the traditional rivalries Iowa has, like the Floyd of Rosedale. Mizzou and Illinois have had intensity when they played in basketball. This could translate well into football. I think Mizzou-Illinois would be a better match-up than Illinois-Ohio State. To make it up to Nebraska I have them playing Penn State for the last game of the season as a protected cross-division game. They've had a fascinating history before joining the Big Ten and both would get up for this game. Neither has had a true rivalry game for the final week of the season. The rest of the protected cross-division games are pretty much straight forward:

Wisconsin-Michigan State
Kansas-Minnesota
Iowa-Missouri
Nebraska-Penn State
Michigan-Ohio State
Illinois-Northwestern
Indiana-Maryland
Rutgers-Purdue


FYI, I've also made up a list of protected cross-division games for the SEC and ACC, respectively, just to give you an idea what I'm thinking:

Alabama-Auburn
West Virginia-South Carolina
Florida-Tennessee
Vanderbilt-Mississippi
Arkansas-LSU
Georgia-Oklahoma
Kentucky-Oklahoma State
Texas A&M-Mississippi State

BC-Wake Forest
Miami-FSU
VT-UVA
Duke-GT
Clemson-NC State
Louisville-UNC
Pitt-Syracuse
Baylor-UConn
04-25-2015 11:56 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: Twitter Rumor
The Big Ten probably has a big fish or two as it's end goal whether it is UNC, Texas, and/or Notre Dame. I think the Big Ten will take whatever steps they can in order to make it as tantalizing as possible for whichever one of those schools to join but on the Big Ten's terms. The rarest of commodities is available slots for schools and short of expelling any current members, their may only be about four more available positions in the Big Ten for 18 but they could stop at 20 members.

So if UNC is the goal, does getting Florida State and Georgia Tech make UNC more likely to come on over down the road? What about Virginia Tech and NC State? Would the Big Ten want more than one school in VA or NC? I'd think not which means if UNC would rather be in a conference with UVA and Duke then getting VT and/or NC State doesn't help get UNC besides making the ACC more watered down and unstable while taking valuable membership slots.

As for Texas, those ACC schools probably don't do much to sway them over but getting Kansas and Oklahoma would pique the interest of Texas. It probably isn't enough to get them unless they get to bring another Texas school with them and then it becomes who will the Big Ten tolerate the most and is it worth it for Texas? I'm not convinced that Texas Tech, Baylor, or TCU would be acceptable to the Big Ten.

UConn unfortunately isn't close with any of the big fish so adding them wouldn't do anything to entice UNC, Texas, Notre Dame, etc. I don't think Missouri would accept a Big Ten invite (or would be offered one now) and they have the same problem as UConn.
04-26-2015 01:29 PM
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RE: Twitter Rumor
Rice is the school you could pair with Texas for the presidents. They are a small private, but they have money, are AAU and a stellar academic school, are situated in Houston, they could play at Reliant for big games, and they could quickly ramp up their programs with all that fertile recruiting on their doorstep. Texas provides the money for adding both and Rice provides the second Texas school UT would probably want. It would also make OU happy as well to have another Texas school. OU's biggest fear is losing exposure in Texas if they join the B1G. With a Rice add OU would get a game in Dallas each year vs. Texas and a game every other year in Houston vs. Rice. They would love that. B1G schools would love the Houston recruiting exposure. Adding a school like Rice would take the sting out of adding non-AAU OU. If Texas is added to the B1G in the somewhat near future I think you will see something like UT, OU, KU, and Rice. Long-term ( a decade or more), TTU might get to the point the presidents could accept them to get Texas. TX is pouring money into TTU right now because they feel they need more T1 public universities. They are trying to emulate the CA system. In 15-20 years, TTU could be much better academically.

Transic I'd pair Indiana and Kansas in your cross-division match up. Both are BB blue bloods with below average FB programs. I'd build up that rivalry. I'd think the B1G would want to build up a rivalry there that would carry over in basketball.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2015 08:49 PM by jhawkmvp.)
04-26-2015 08:33 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: Twitter Rumor
If Rice is such a desirable school, why didn't the AAC take them? The AAC has a respectable arrangement of academic schools. I find it hard that the Big Ten would be okay with reaching into C-USA for membership.
04-26-2015 08:39 PM
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Pony94 Offline
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Twitter Rumor
(04-26-2015 08:39 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  If Rice is such a desirable school, why didn't the AAC take them? The AAC has a respectable arrangement of academic schools. I find it hard that the Big Ten would be okay with reaching into C-USA for membership.

We already have a Houston school. Rice should be considered.
04-26-2015 08:43 PM
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jhawkmvp Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Twitter Rumor
Rice is a reach, but if you want Texas you will need to take someone else from Texas. Rice is probably the most acceptable academic candidate of the Texas schools currently. The best combo would have been Texas and A&M but that ship as sailed. A&M is all in with the SEC now. Outside of A&M there is no current candidate from Texas that is an easy yes choice for the B1G. Rice just checks the most boxes. SMU or TCU would probably be the next best academically. Add any of them. It really doesn't matter who you add from Texas. Landing Texas plus one will shower the B1G with money. Texas is worth so much on their own it is ridiculous. They are probably 50% of the value of the B12 on their own, if not more.

If the B1G had been willing too, a PAC like offer to Texas, A&M, NU, OU, and one of KU or MU would have been the move in 2010 that would have landed Texas. It's a lot harder now with A&M out of the picture.
04-26-2015 08:58 PM
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BE4neva Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Twitter Rumor
Rice does not fit the B1G profile. It's looney to think they are a B1G target. This thread was a good convo until the crazies came out.
04-26-2015 09:14 PM
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jhawkmvp Offline
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RE: Twitter Rumor
Texas is the target. Rice is the cost of landing them. Texas won't go to any conference without a friend in tow. Any scenario with them doing so won't work. A&M was the perfect B1G partner, but they are off the board and all other Texas schools have various amounts of warts. Yes, BE4neva has arrived so the thread is sure to tank now.
04-26-2015 09:43 PM
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RE: Twitter Rumor
(04-26-2015 08:33 PM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  Rice is the school you could pair with Texas for the presidents. They are a small private, but they have money, are AAU and a stellar academic school, are situated in Houston, they could play at Reliant for big games, and they could quickly ramp up their programs with all that fertile recruiting on their doorstep. Texas provides the money for adding both and Rice provides the second Texas school UT would probably want. It would also make OU happy as well to have another Texas school. OU's biggest fear is losing exposure in Texas if they join the B1G. With a Rice add OU would get a game in Dallas each year vs. Texas and a game every other year in Houston vs. Rice. They would love that. B1G schools would love the Houston recruiting exposure. Adding a school like Rice would take the sting out of adding non-AAU OU. If Texas is added to the B1G in the somewhat near future I think you will see something like UT, OU, KU, and Rice. Long-term ( a decade or more), TTU might get to the point the presidents could accept them to get Texas. TX is pouring money into TTU right now because they feel they need more T1 public universities. They are trying to emulate the CA system. In 15-20 years, TTU could be much better academically.

Transic I'd pair Indiana and Kansas in your cross-division match up. Both are BB blue bloods with below average FB programs. I'd build up that rivalry. I'd think the B1G would want to build up a rivalry there that would carry over in basketball.

Because I don't see the conferences going beyond 16 or 18 I tend to doubt it's possible. Rice would take up a spot that would go to a state flagship school. It's a fine institution, for sure. If the Big 12 does break up I think Tech would look West and UT would look East. Plus Tech might like to stand on its own two feet and be the "Texas school of the conference," like A&M is in the SEC. The PAC might like Tech and TCU over any MWC option that doesn't get them any new exposure and market. IMO, it's the part of H1's original scenario that I'm not sure of.

But for the sake of argument, let's say it is Tech and TCU to the PAC and then Florida State to the SEC. That would make accommodating all of the B12 even easier, as you can then slide West Virginia to the ACC. With Florida State and Oklahoma, Oklahoma State is easier to swallow. Baylor and Texas to the ACC (Texas as a partial member). The ACC should look to UCF to replace FSU, as it's a rapidly growing school and is already more popular than Miami, according to one survey.

Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Miami
Louisville, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, West Virginia
Baylor, Clemson, Georgia Tech, UCF
Virginia, Duke, UNC, NC State
Texas and Notre Dame as football independents

USC-e, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky
Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Florida State
Vanderbilt, Mississippi, Mississippi State, LSU
Texas A&M, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Kansas and Missouri to the Big Ten as before.

I'm good with matching Kansas and Indiana as cross divisional opponents.
04-27-2015 12:27 AM
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Post: #17
RE: Twitter Rumor
Texas is never coming the the B10, they own the conference they reside in now. Nothing happens in the B12 w/o their approval and that's the way they like it.

Highly doubt you will see any public ACC programs where the majority of the student body is instate residents come to the B10 either. The one ACC program that is a suitable candidate is Miami. Excellent baseball program, academics improving, football program is rebuilding but Golden AL has a chance at getting them back to winning and fine facilities. In a large market area with B10 alums and a place where visiting fans want to travel to especially in November for football or Jan/Feb for hoops.

On top of that the majority of their student body is from NJ, NY, PA, OH, MI & IL; not from Florida. Their student body would not care if they changed conferences but their marketing people absolutely would prefer the B10, ACC teams except for FSU dont' bring fans to Miami but PSU, OSU, Michigan, MSU, WIsky, Iowa & Nebraska absolutely would.
04-27-2015 06:18 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Twitter Rumor
Miami gets how many fans for a home game? I don't see the school presidents being okay with another private school. Northwestern is enough and it would take a very special case to add another (Duke to get UNC, Notre Dame, etc.).
04-27-2015 06:46 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Twitter Rumor
(04-26-2015 09:14 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  Rice does not fit the B1G profile. It's looney to think they are a B1G target. This thread was a good convo until the crazies came out.

The Big Ten already has it's token Private University that allows the conference to hide certain information. There is no need for another, even if it is an amazing institution such as Rice in a major metro area in Texas such as Houston.

That being said though, I love Rice. Great Institution and my favorite animal as their mascot.
04-27-2015 07:35 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Twitter Rumor
(04-26-2015 08:58 PM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  Rice is a reach, but if you want Texas you will need to take someone else from Texas. Rice is probably the most acceptable academic candidate of the Texas schools currently. The best combo would have been Texas and A&M but that ship as sailed. A&M is all in with the SEC now. Outside of A&M there is no current candidate from Texas that is an easy yes choice for the B1G. Rice just checks the most boxes. SMU or TCU would probably be the next best academically. Add any of them. It really doesn't matter who you add from Texas. Landing Texas plus one will shower the B1G with money. Texas is worth so much on their own it is ridiculous. They are probably 50% of the value of the B12 on their own, if not more.

If the B1G had been willing too, a PAC like offer to Texas, A&M, NU, OU, and one of KU or MU would have been the move in 2010 that would have landed Texas. It's a lot harder now with A&M out of the picture.

The only way we could possibly get Texas is with a move to at least 18. It would have to be with the likes of Kansas and Oklahoma. Rice probably is the best Texas candidate to come with Texas and that is one more reason why I don't think The Big Ten and Texas have ever had serious conversations about Texas joining. That doesn't mean the two parties haven't had considerable conversations at the top of each Pyramid. They have had such conversations. There is a lot of mutual respect between Academia but they understand the cultural issues that would arise.

Also, everyone seems to get caught up in coming up with realignment scenario's that give their favorite conference everything that It could possibly want.

That isn't going to happen, for anyone. People either understand that by now or they will simply have to wait and see because they don't have the comprehension level to understand such realities.

Oklahoma and Kansas isn't a bad pairing. What is the cost for The Big Ten? It is allowing in another non-AAU Institution. It will lose some, just a little, of it's perceived academic standing just as it did with Nebraska. I use the word perceived because it's pretty silly that somehow adding Oklahoma makes The Big Ten a worse academic conference than before considering they still have every school that they had before when it was considered the top Major Conference in terms of Academics and Research.
04-27-2015 07:42 PM
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