(08-02-2015 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 02:02 PM)stever20 Wrote:  what you are saying is just a basic TV contract. ESPN has the rights to the schools in the AAC games, even though there are no Grant of Rights in that conference.

You are confusing a Grant of Rights and a TV contract.

From fox article earlier this year:
http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...hts-010313

A grant of rights is a contract between each individual school and the conference pledging the school's media rights to conference for a number of year.

It is known that the SEC doesn't have a GOR between member schools and the conference, but it has also been strongly suggested that we did have to sign one with ESPN at the time of the SECN's formation. In that case the rights would be with the network for the duration of the contract.

That is why ESPN could be trying to turn the Longhorn Network into a Big 12 Network for them to control all of the Big 12 contract. It is a way for ESPN to push FOX out of the way to have all rights over all the teams in the Big 12. With all the prospects of ESPN's expansion lists of schools including North Dakota State on the list, ESPN can control which schools they want. ESPN could experiment with the Big 12 for 16 or 20 schools. Then, you can sell the Big 12 Network in many states including into Colorado, Utah, California, Nevada, Idaho/Washington, and other states in the west and in states like Tennessee, Illinois, Ohio, Virgnia, North Carolina and Florida.

I'll take a stab at explaining how the GOR and network agreements fit together.

In Section 1, which is the heart of the Big 12 GOR, each school grants to the Big 12 Conference whatever rights are necessary to enable the conference to fulfill its obligations under the Conferences' media deals with ESPN and Fox. The individual schools retain all other rights.

No one has seen the Conference media deals with ESPN/Fox because they have not been made public. But let's say, for example, that the Conference media deals give ESPN/Fox the right to broadcast 3 games on the one weekend of the season. ESPN/Fox says, OK Big 12, this week we want the Baylor home game, the Oklahoma home game and the Iowa State home game. The GOR assures the Conference and ESPN/Fox that the conference can fulfill its obligations under the media deals, so in this instance the conference says "Baylor, Texas and Iowa State, we're taking your home games this week."

What ever ESPN/Fox don't want, stays with the schools. That week, for example, both Texas and Kansas got to keep the rights to their games. Some people refer to these as Tier 2 or Tier 3 games, but regardless the important point is that the schools get to keep the rights and can sell them. That's what Texas did with the LHN, Oklahoma did with Fox and Kansas did with ESPN.

That's how the two contracts work together. From a technical perspective, the Conference (not ESPN/Fox) owns the rights granted by the schools in the GOR, but as a practical matter, ESPN/Fox can make use of them by calling for the game to be one of the games they want to broadcast.

The most interesting thing about the GOR is how it's worded - the schools only grant the rights necessary for the conference to meet its obligations under its contracts with ESPN/Fox. SO . . . . what would happen if the ESPN/Fox media deals were terminated for some reason after the 2015-16 season? The technical answer is that the GORs would still exist, but they would be meaningless because the Conference would have NO obligations to ESPN/Fox.

That's why some people think there is a 'backdoor' way to get out of the GORs. ESPN/Fox almost certainly built in rights to terminate their agreements if certain things occur - like, maybe, for example, Texas, Oklahoma and three other schools leaving the Big 12. ESPN/Fox would probably not want to keep paying the Big 12 $200 million per year if only 5 lesser schools remained. Likewise, they would not want to allow the Big 12 to just replace Texas and Oklahoma with, for example, UTEP and BYU, and have to keep paying $200 million per year. UTEP and BYU may be fine schools but they will not draw the huge TV audience that Texas and Oklahoma will.

So that's basically the picture. No one knows what the Big 12 agreements with ESPN/Fox say, but it's reasonable to assume the networks built in at least some termination rights to protect themselves in the event that, notwithstanding the GOR, some major event occurs.

What events might trigger ESPN/Fox rights to terminate - and as a result essentially make the GOR meaningless? Dissolution of the conference voluntarily (requires 8 votes) would probably be one. The Big 12 not being considered a conference by the NCAA (less than 7 members, I think), maybe that one too. Texas leaving the conference, even if everyone else stays? or perhaps Texas and Oklahoma both leaving? Who knows . . . and that's what these message board are all about because we love to speculate and seize on the latest tidbit of information to try to see into the crystal ball of future realignment.

(08-02-2015 03:39 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  I'll take a stab at explaining how the GOR and network agreements fit together.

In Section 1, which is the heart of the Big 12 GOR, each school grants to the Big 12 Conference whatever rights are necessary to enable the conference to fulfill its obligations under the Conferences' media deals with ESPN and Fox. The individual schools retain all other rights.

No one has seen the Conference media deals with ESPN/Fox because they have not been made public. But let's say, for example, that the Conference media deals give ESPN/Fox the right to broadcast 3 games on the one weekend of the season. ESPN/Fox says, OK Big 12, this week we want the Baylor home game, the Oklahoma home game and the Iowa State home game. The GOR assures the Conference and ESPN/Fox that the conference can fulfill its obligations under the media deals, so in this instance the conference says "Baylor, Texas and Iowa State, we're taking your home games this week."

What ever ESPN/Fox don't want, stays with the schools. That week, for example, both Texas and Kansas got to keep the rights to their games. Some people refer to these as Tier 2 or Tier 3 games, but regardless the important point is that the schools get to keep the rights and can sell them. That's what Texas did with the LHN, Oklahoma did with Fox and Kansas did with ESPN.

That's how the two contracts work together. From a technical perspective, the Conference (not ESPN/Fox) owns the rights granted by the schools in the GOR, but as a practical matter, ESPN/Fox can make use of them by calling for the game to be one of the games they want to broadcast.

The most interesting thing about the GOR is how it's worded - the schools only grant the rights necessary for the conference to meet its obligations under its contracts with ESPN/Fox. SO . . . . what would happen if the ESPN/Fox media deals were terminated for some reason after the 2015-16 season? The technical answer is that the GORs would still exist, but they would be meaningless because the Conference would have NO obligations to ESPN/Fox.

That's why some people think there is a 'backdoor' way to get out of the GORs. ESPN/Fox almost certainly built in rights to terminate their agreements if certain things occur - like, maybe, for example, Texas, Oklahoma and three other schools leaving the Big 12. ESPN/Fox would probably not want to keep paying the Big 12 $200 million per year if only 5 lesser schools remained. Likewise, they would not want to allow the Big 12 to just replace Texas and Oklahoma with, for example, UTEP and BYU, and have to keep paying $200 million per year. UTEP and BYU may be fine schools but they will not draw the huge TV audience that Texas and Oklahoma will.

So that's basically the picture. No one knows what the Big 12 agreements with ESPN/Fox say, but it's reasonable to assume the networks built in at least some termination rights to protect themselves in the event that, notwithstanding the GOR, some major event occurs.

What events might trigger ESPN/Fox rights to terminate - and as a result essentially make the GOR meaningless? Dissolution of the conference voluntarily (requires 8 votes) would probably be one. The Big 12 not being considered a conference by the NCAA (less than 7 members, I think), maybe that one too. Texas leaving the conference, even if everyone else stays? or perhaps Texas and Oklahoma both leaving? Who knows . . . and that's what these message board are all about because we love to speculate and seize on the latest tidbit of information to try to see into the crystal ball of future realignment.

You started well in the first paragraph by following what the contract says, but after that your post is mostly conjecture, and mostly incorrect. Thanks for playing though.

(07-26-2015 05:02 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 05:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 04:54 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 04:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 04:49 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  Wrong.

No, you are wrong:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...avid-boren

from when they did this at first...
The Big 12's presidents pledged to grant their television rights to the conference for six years, Oklahoma president David Boren said at a news conference on Thursday.

Doesn't say a damn thing about the networks.

The schools sign off their rights to the conference, the conference signs with the networks. Networks are not in contract with individual schools (except for Notre Dame).

Get a clue.

No you get a clue. The grant of rights is to the conference. PERIOD.

another story:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...bVXNrNRGUk

Once a school grants its rights, the conference holds them for that term even if the school leaves for another conference.

There's that word again.... Conference. The networks don't have a ******* thing to do with the grant of rights. NOTHING.

You are getting pissy because you are wrong. The networks have rights protected for x and y. The conference signs with the network. The schools turn over their rights to the conference, which in turn is in contract with the networks.

The networks have the power to sue a school up the but so far they could bankrupt a major university.

So what happens if a school leaves a conference with 6 years remaining under their GOR, but the conference network contract expires in 3 years and the conference signs with another network after the 3 years? And how would the network sue the school when they are in contractual privity with the conference, not individual schools excluding Notre Dame and BYU? (This is of course a hypothetical as the length or term of the GOR is tied to the length of the conference network contract).

(08-02-2015 05:51 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 03:39 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  I'll take a stab at explaining how the GOR and network agreements fit together.

In Section 1, which is the heart of the Big 12 GOR, each school grants to the Big 12 Conference whatever rights are necessary to enable the conference to fulfill its obligations under the Conferences' media deals with ESPN and Fox. The individual schools retain all other rights.

No one has seen the Conference media deals with ESPN/Fox because they have not been made public. But let's say, for example, that the Conference media deals give ESPN/Fox the right to broadcast 3 games on the one weekend of the season. ESPN/Fox says, OK Big 12, this week we want the Baylor home game, the Oklahoma home game and the Iowa State home game. The GOR assures the Conference and ESPN/Fox that the conference can fulfill its obligations under the media deals, so in this instance the conference says "Baylor, Texas and Iowa State, we're taking your home games this week."

What ever ESPN/Fox don't want, stays with the schools. That week, for example, both Texas and Kansas got to keep the rights to their games. Some people refer to these as Tier 2 or Tier 3 games, but regardless the important point is that the schools get to keep the rights and can sell them. That's what Texas did with the LHN, Oklahoma did with Fox and Kansas did with ESPN.

That's how the two contracts work together. From a technical perspective, the Conference (not ESPN/Fox) owns the rights granted by the schools in the GOR, but as a practical matter, ESPN/Fox can make use of them by calling for the game to be one of the games they want to broadcast.

The most interesting thing about the GOR is how it's worded - the schools only grant the rights necessary for the conference to meet its obligations under its contracts with ESPN/Fox. SO . . . . what would happen if the ESPN/Fox media deals were terminated for some reason after the 2015-16 season? The technical answer is that the GORs would still exist, but they would be meaningless because the Conference would have NO obligations to ESPN/Fox.

That's why some people think there is a 'backdoor' way to get out of the GORs. ESPN/Fox almost certainly built in rights to terminate their agreements if certain things occur - like, maybe, for example, Texas, Oklahoma and three other schools leaving the Big 12. ESPN/Fox would probably not want to keep paying the Big 12 $200 million per year if only 5 lesser schools remained. Likewise, they would not want to allow the Big 12 to just replace Texas and Oklahoma with, for example, UTEP and BYU, and have to keep paying $200 million per year. UTEP and BYU may be fine schools but they will not draw the huge TV audience that Texas and Oklahoma will.

So that's basically the picture. No one knows what the Big 12 agreements with ESPN/Fox say, but it's reasonable to assume the networks built in at least some termination rights to protect themselves in the event that, notwithstanding the GOR, some major event occurs.

What events might trigger ESPN/Fox rights to terminate - and as a result essentially make the GOR meaningless? Dissolution of the conference voluntarily (requires 8 votes) would probably be one. The Big 12 not being considered a conference by the NCAA (less than 7 members, I think), maybe that one too. Texas leaving the conference, even if everyone else stays? or perhaps Texas and Oklahoma both leaving? Who knows . . . and that's what these message board are all about because we love to speculate and seize on the latest tidbit of information to try to see into the crystal ball of future realignment.

You started well in the first paragraph by following what the contract says, but after that your post is mostly conjecture, and mostly incorrect. Thanks for playing though.

We're all on pins and needles, do tell oh enlightened one, how is he incorrect? I'm sure you'll back up your opinions with links corroborating your views of course. Otherwise anyone else's opinion is just as valid as yours, hopefully just a tad bit less condescending.

(08-02-2015 09:03 PM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 05:51 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 03:39 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  I'll take a stab at explaining how the GOR and network agreements fit together.

In Section 1, which is the heart of the Big 12 GOR, each school grants to the Big 12 Conference whatever rights are necessary to enable the conference to fulfill its obligations under the Conferences' media deals with ESPN and Fox. The individual schools retain all other rights.

No one has seen the Conference media deals with ESPN/Fox because they have not been made public. But let's say, for example, that the Conference media deals give ESPN/Fox the right to broadcast 3 games on the one weekend of the season. ESPN/Fox says, OK Big 12, this week we want the Baylor home game, the Oklahoma home game and the Iowa State home game. The GOR assures the Conference and ESPN/Fox that the conference can fulfill its obligations under the media deals, so in this instance the conference says "Baylor, Texas and Iowa State, we're taking your home games this week."

What ever ESPN/Fox don't want, stays with the schools. That week, for example, both Texas and Kansas got to keep the rights to their games. Some people refer to these as Tier 2 or Tier 3 games, but regardless the important point is that the schools get to keep the rights and can sell them. That's what Texas did with the LHN, Oklahoma did with Fox and Kansas did with ESPN.

That's how the two contracts work together. From a technical perspective, the Conference (not ESPN/Fox) owns the rights granted by the schools in the GOR, but as a practical matter, ESPN/Fox can make use of them by calling for the game to be one of the games they want to broadcast.

The most interesting thing about the GOR is how it's worded - the schools only grant the rights necessary for the conference to meet its obligations under its contracts with ESPN/Fox. SO . . . . what would happen if the ESPN/Fox media deals were terminated for some reason after the 2015-16 season? The technical answer is that the GORs would still exist, but they would be meaningless because the Conference would have NO obligations to ESPN/Fox.

That's why some people think there is a 'backdoor' way to get out of the GORs. ESPN/Fox almost certainly built in rights to terminate their agreements if certain things occur - like, maybe, for example, Texas, Oklahoma and three other schools leaving the Big 12. ESPN/Fox would probably not want to keep paying the Big 12 $200 million per year if only 5 lesser schools remained. Likewise, they would not want to allow the Big 12 to just replace Texas and Oklahoma with, for example, UTEP and BYU, and have to keep paying $200 million per year. UTEP and BYU may be fine schools but they will not draw the huge TV audience that Texas and Oklahoma will.

So that's basically the picture. No one knows what the Big 12 agreements with ESPN/Fox say, but it's reasonable to assume the networks built in at least some termination rights to protect themselves in the event that, notwithstanding the GOR, some major event occurs.

What events might trigger ESPN/Fox rights to terminate - and as a result essentially make the GOR meaningless? Dissolution of the conference voluntarily (requires 8 votes) would probably be one. The Big 12 not being considered a conference by the NCAA (less than 7 members, I think), maybe that one too. Texas leaving the conference, even if everyone else stays? or perhaps Texas and Oklahoma both leaving? Who knows . . . and that's what these message board are all about because we love to speculate and seize on the latest tidbit of information to try to see into the crystal ball of future realignment.

You started well in the first paragraph by following what the contract says, but after that your post is mostly conjecture, and mostly incorrect. Thanks for playing though.

We're all on pins and needles, do tell oh enlightened one, how is he incorrect? I'm sure you'll back up your opinions with links corroborating your views of course. Otherwise anyone else's opinion is just as valid as yours, hopefully just a tad bit less condescending.

If everyone would just read the contract without conjecture its meaning will be obvious.

(08-02-2015 09:15 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 09:03 PM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 05:51 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 03:39 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  I'll take a stab at explaining how the GOR and network agreements fit together.

In Section 1, which is the heart of the Big 12 GOR, each school grants to the Big 12 Conference whatever rights are necessary to enable the conference to fulfill its obligations under the Conferences' media deals with ESPN and Fox. The individual schools retain all other rights.

No one has seen the Conference media deals with ESPN/Fox because they have not been made public. But let's say, for example, that the Conference media deals give ESPN/Fox the right to broadcast 3 games on the one weekend of the season. ESPN/Fox says, OK Big 12, this week we want the Baylor home game, the Oklahoma home game and the Iowa State home game. The GOR assures the Conference and ESPN/Fox that the conference can fulfill its obligations under the media deals, so in this instance the conference says "Baylor, Texas and Iowa State, we're taking your home games this week."

What ever ESPN/Fox don't want, stays with the schools. That week, for example, both Texas and Kansas got to keep the rights to their games. Some people refer to these as Tier 2 or Tier 3 games, but regardless the important point is that the schools get to keep the rights and can sell them. That's what Texas did with the LHN, Oklahoma did with Fox and Kansas did with ESPN.

That's how the two contracts work together. From a technical perspective, the Conference (not ESPN/Fox) owns the rights granted by the schools in the GOR, but as a practical matter, ESPN/Fox can make use of them by calling for the game to be one of the games they want to broadcast.

The most interesting thing about the GOR is how it's worded - the schools only grant the rights necessary for the conference to meet its obligations under its contracts with ESPN/Fox. SO . . . . what would happen if the ESPN/Fox media deals were terminated for some reason after the 2015-16 season? The technical answer is that the GORs would still exist, but they would be meaningless because the Conference would have NO obligations to ESPN/Fox.

That's why some people think there is a 'backdoor' way to get out of the GORs. ESPN/Fox almost certainly built in rights to terminate their agreements if certain things occur - like, maybe, for example, Texas, Oklahoma and three other schools leaving the Big 12. ESPN/Fox would probably not want to keep paying the Big 12 $200 million per year if only 5 lesser schools remained. Likewise, they would not want to allow the Big 12 to just replace Texas and Oklahoma with, for example, UTEP and BYU, and have to keep paying $200 million per year. UTEP and BYU may be fine schools but they will not draw the huge TV audience that Texas and Oklahoma will.

So that's basically the picture. No one knows what the Big 12 agreements with ESPN/Fox say, but it's reasonable to assume the networks built in at least some termination rights to protect themselves in the event that, notwithstanding the GOR, some major event occurs.

What events might trigger ESPN/Fox rights to terminate - and as a result essentially make the GOR meaningless? Dissolution of the conference voluntarily (requires 8 votes) would probably be one. The Big 12 not being considered a conference by the NCAA (less than 7 members, I think), maybe that one too. Texas leaving the conference, even if everyone else stays? or perhaps Texas and Oklahoma both leaving? Who knows . . . and that's what these message board are all about because we love to speculate and seize on the latest tidbit of information to try to see into the crystal ball of future realignment.

You started well in the first paragraph by following what the contract says, but after that your post is mostly conjecture, and mostly incorrect. Thanks for playing though.

We're all on pins and needles, do tell oh enlightened one, how is he incorrect? I'm sure you'll back up your opinions with links corroborating your views of course. Otherwise anyone else's opinion is just as valid as yours, hopefully just a tad bit less condescending.

If everyone would just read the contract without conjecture its meaning will be obvious.

Fair enough, wouldn't we also have to read it in concert with the conference media contracts to decipher what is needed for the "conference to fulfill its obligations under it's media deals with ESPN/FOX?" Those ESPN/FOX conference media contract terms have not been made public have they? Without knowledge of those terms that the conference has to fulfill, wouldn't any piece written regarding same necessarily have some measure of "conjecture?"

(08-03-2015 05:36 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 09:15 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 09:03 PM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 05:51 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 03:39 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  I'll take a stab at explaining how the GOR and network agreements fit together.

In Section 1, which is the heart of the Big 12 GOR, each school grants to the Big 12 Conference whatever rights are necessary to enable the conference to fulfill its obligations under the Conferences' media deals with ESPN and Fox. The individual schools retain all other rights.

No one has seen the Conference media deals with ESPN/Fox because they have not been made public. But let's say, for example, that the Conference media deals give ESPN/Fox the right to broadcast 3 games on the one weekend of the season. ESPN/Fox says, OK Big 12, this week we want the Baylor home game, the Oklahoma home game and the Iowa State home game. The GOR assures the Conference and ESPN/Fox that the conference can fulfill its obligations under the media deals, so in this instance the conference says "Baylor, Texas and Iowa State, we're taking your home games this week."

What ever ESPN/Fox don't want, stays with the schools. That week, for example, both Texas and Kansas got to keep the rights to their games. Some people refer to these as Tier 2 or Tier 3 games, but regardless the important point is that the schools get to keep the rights and can sell them. That's what Texas did with the LHN, Oklahoma did with Fox and Kansas did with ESPN.

That's how the two contracts work together. From a technical perspective, the Conference (not ESPN/Fox) owns the rights granted by the schools in the GOR, but as a practical matter, ESPN/Fox can make use of them by calling for the game to be one of the games they want to broadcast.

The most interesting thing about the GOR is how it's worded - the schools only grant the rights necessary for the conference to meet its obligations under its contracts with ESPN/Fox. SO . . . . what would happen if the ESPN/Fox media deals were terminated for some reason after the 2015-16 season? The technical answer is that the GORs would still exist, but they would be meaningless because the Conference would have NO obligations to ESPN/Fox.

That's why some people think there is a 'backdoor' way to get out of the GORs. ESPN/Fox almost certainly built in rights to terminate their agreements if certain things occur - like, maybe, for example, Texas, Oklahoma and three other schools leaving the Big 12. ESPN/Fox would probably not want to keep paying the Big 12 $200 million per year if only 5 lesser schools remained. Likewise, they would not want to allow the Big 12 to just replace Texas and Oklahoma with, for example, UTEP and BYU, and have to keep paying $200 million per year. UTEP and BYU may be fine schools but they will not draw the huge TV audience that Texas and Oklahoma will.

So that's basically the picture. No one knows what the Big 12 agreements with ESPN/Fox say, but it's reasonable to assume the networks built in at least some termination rights to protect themselves in the event that, notwithstanding the GOR, some major event occurs.

What events might trigger ESPN/Fox rights to terminate - and as a result essentially make the GOR meaningless? Dissolution of the conference voluntarily (requires 8 votes) would probably be one. The Big 12 not being considered a conference by the NCAA (less than 7 members, I think), maybe that one too. Texas leaving the conference, even if everyone else stays? or perhaps Texas and Oklahoma both leaving? Who knows . . . and that's what these message board are all about because we love to speculate and seize on the latest tidbit of information to try to see into the crystal ball of future realignment.

You started well in the first paragraph by following what the contract says, but after that your post is mostly conjecture, and mostly incorrect. Thanks for playing though.

We're all on pins and needles, do tell oh enlightened one, how is he incorrect? I'm sure you'll back up your opinions with links corroborating your views of course. Otherwise anyone else's opinion is just as valid as yours, hopefully just a tad bit less condescending.

If everyone would just read the contract without conjecture its meaning will be obvious.

Fair enough, wouldn't we also have to read it in concert with the conference media contracts to decipher what is needed for the "conference to fulfill its obligations under it's media deals with ESPN/FOX?" Those ESPN/FOX conference media contract terms have not been made public have they? Without knowledge of those terms that the conference has to fulfill, wouldn't any piece written regarding same necessarily have some measure of "conjecture?"

Not really. While it is true what was exactly "granted" by the conference to the network might not be exactly the same as what was granted to the conference by the individual schools, any contention such did not include all or the vast majority of the most valuable rights the schools conveyed to the conference strains the limits of logical conjecture.

The primary issue of this thread was whether the conference granted to the networks the rights the individual schools conveyed to the conference. If one reads the Big 12 GOR that should be obvious. In the same paragraph that the GOR recites the intention for the schools to transfer its rights to the conference it states the rights are being "granted" to the networks in the telecast agreement. To not accept this fact means the reader is blinded by the prejudice of the reader's preexisting opinions, which for some is unusually intense as to this subject.

(08-03-2015 07:19 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-03-2015 05:36 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 09:15 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 09:03 PM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 05:51 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  You started well in the first paragraph by following what the contract says, but after that your post is mostly conjecture, and mostly incorrect. Thanks for playing though.

We're all on pins and needles, do tell oh enlightened one, how is he incorrect? I'm sure you'll back up your opinions with links corroborating your views of course. Otherwise anyone else's opinion is just as valid as yours, hopefully just a tad bit less condescending.

If everyone would just read the contract without conjecture its meaning will be obvious.

Fair enough, wouldn't we also have to read it in concert with the conference media contracts to decipher what is needed for the "conference to fulfill its obligations under it's media deals with ESPN/FOX?" Those ESPN/FOX conference media contract terms have not been made public have they? Without knowledge of those terms that the conference has to fulfill, wouldn't any piece written regarding same necessarily have some measure of "conjecture?"

Not really. While it is true what was exactly "granted" by the conference to the network might not be exactly the same as what was granted to the conference by the individual schools, any contention such did not include all or the vast majority of the most valuable rights the schools conveyed to the conference strains the limits of logical conjecture.

The primary issue of this thread was whether the conference granted to the networks the rights the individual schools conveyed to the conference. If one reads the Big 12 GOR that should be obvious. In the same paragraph that the GOR recites the intention for the schools to transfer its rights to the conference it states the rights are being "granted" to the networks in the telecast agreement. To not accept this fact means the reader is blinded by the prejudice of the reader's preexisting opinions, which for some is unusually intense as to this subject.

I'm not sure why this is so complicated for you. Via the GOR, the member schools give the conference whatever rights the conference needs to fulfill the conference's obligations to ESPN/Fox - no more, no less. What's needed to fulfill the Conference's obligations may vary from week to week, depending on what ESPN/Fox are entitled to get under their deal with the Conference. Regardless, whatever's left the Big 12 members can sell on their own, as Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas did.

If the ESPN/Fox agreements with the Conference terminate for any reason, the conference will have no more obligations to fulfill - hence the GOR is meaningless. That provides a potential back door around the GOR depending on the circumstances that may result in a termination of the conference media deals. No one knows what the ESPN/Fox contracts with the Conference say because they are not public. The conference and member schools would know, however. We peons are left to speculate.

IF The Big 12 expands -- which is by no means certain -- look to Cincinnati and Colorado State.

(08-03-2015 10:19 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(08-03-2015 07:19 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-03-2015 05:36 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 09:15 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 09:03 PM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  We're all on pins and needles, do tell oh enlightened one, how is he incorrect? I'm sure you'll back up your opinions with links corroborating your views of course. Otherwise anyone else's opinion is just as valid as yours, hopefully just a tad bit less condescending.

If everyone would just read the contract without conjecture its meaning will be obvious.

Fair enough, wouldn't we also have to read it in concert with the conference media contracts to decipher what is needed for the "conference to fulfill its obligations under it's media deals with ESPN/FOX?" Those ESPN/FOX conference media contract terms have not been made public have they? Without knowledge of those terms that the conference has to fulfill, wouldn't any piece written regarding same necessarily have some measure of "conjecture?"

Not really. While it is true what was exactly "granted" by the conference to the network might not be exactly the same as what was granted to the conference by the individual schools, any contention such did not include all or the vast majority of the most valuable rights the schools conveyed to the conference strains the limits of logical conjecture.

The primary issue of this thread was whether the conference granted to the networks the rights the individual schools conveyed to the conference. If one reads the Big 12 GOR that should be obvious. In the same paragraph that the GOR recites the intention for the schools to transfer its rights to the conference it states the rights are being "granted" to the networks in the telecast agreement. To not accept this fact means the reader is blinded by the prejudice of the reader's preexisting opinions, which for some is unusually intense as to this subject.

I'm not sure why this is so complicated for you. Via the GOR, the member schools give the conference whatever rights the conference needs to fulfill the conference's obligations to ESPN/Fox - no more, no less. What's needed to fulfill the Conference's obligations may vary from week to week, depending on what ESPN/Fox are entitled to get under their deal with the Conference. Regardless, whatever's left the Big 12 members can sell on their own, as Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas did.

If the ESPN/Fox agreements with the Conference terminate for any reason, the conference will have no more obligations to fulfill - hence the GOR is meaningless. That provides a potential back door around the GOR depending on the circumstances that may result in a termination of the conference media deals. No one knows what the ESPN/Fox contracts with the Conference say because they are not public. The conference and member schools would know, however. We peons are left to speculate.

You are wrong. the GOR provides the conference the media rights to all 10 programs.

Bottom line is simple, for the GOR to be invalidated, pretty much all 10 teams would need to be moved into P4 conferences. And no, none of this sort of good conference AAC/MWC, but the 4 P4 conferences.

The problem I am beginning to understand. I read that this could be a rumor why the Big 12 is having troubles expanded, and reason why Louisville got snubbed.

Texas does not want a school that is named after a city, nor they do not want a directional school.

If this is true? Then Texas is blocking Houston, Memphis, Northern Illinois, Cincinnati, Louisville, East Carolina, UCF, USF, Boise State, San San Diego State and Georgia Southern.

They might say yes to Temple, U. Mass., U. Conn., Old Dominion, Tulane, Rice, Arkansas State, Missouri State, North Dakota State, SMU, Colorado State, New Mexico and BYU.

Remember, it is just rumor that Texas could be the stumbling block for the Big 12 not expanding. Texas could go to Independent instead before the schools like Cincinnati and them join.

(08-06-2015 02:19 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Texas does not want a school that is named after a city, nor they do not want a directional school.

Yet one of the options they supposedly would consider should they leave the Big 142 is the ACC which has... SIX schools names after a city.

One really has nothing to do with another. I don't think Cincinnati all of a sudden becomes more valuable if they are renamed Ohio Tech, for example.

(08-06-2015 08:10 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  One really has nothing to do with another. I don't think Cincinnati all of a sudden becomes more valuable if they are renamed Ohio Tech, for example.

Either way they are the number 2 school in Ohio ... but not a close second.

Speaking of "second in their state", I'm now waiting on the edge of my seat for the SEC to kick the University of Auburn, in Auburn, AL, out because they are not named for the state of Alabama.

(08-06-2015 11:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 08:10 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  One really has nothing to do with another. I don't think Cincinnati all of a sudden becomes more valuable if they are renamed Ohio Tech, for example.

Either way they are the number 2 school in Ohio ... but not a close second.

Speaking of "second in their state", I'm now waiting on the edge of my seat for the SEC to kick the University of Auburn, in Auburn, AL, out because they are not named for the state of Alabama.

Replaced them with what? Alabama State?

(08-02-2015 05:51 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 03:39 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  I'll take a stab at explaining how the GOR and network agreements fit together.

In Section 1, which is the heart of the Big 12 GOR, each school grants to the Big 12 Conference whatever rights are necessary to enable the conference to fulfill its obligations under the Conferences' media deals with ESPN and Fox. The individual schools retain all other rights.

No one has seen the Conference media deals with ESPN/Fox because they have not been made public. But let's say, for example, that the Conference media deals give ESPN/Fox the right to broadcast 3 games on the one weekend of the season. ESPN/Fox says, OK Big 12, this week we want the Baylor home game, the Oklahoma home game and the Iowa State home game. The GOR assures the Conference and ESPN/Fox that the conference can fulfill its obligations under the media deals, so in this instance the conference says "Baylor, Texas and Iowa State, we're taking your home games this week."

What ever ESPN/Fox don't want, stays with the schools. That week, for example, both Texas and Kansas got to keep the rights to their games. Some people refer to these as Tier 2 or Tier 3 games, but regardless the important point is that the schools get to keep the rights and can sell them. That's what Texas did with the LHN, Oklahoma did with Fox and Kansas did with ESPN.

That's how the two contracts work together. From a technical perspective, the Conference (not ESPN/Fox) owns the rights granted by the schools in the GOR, but as a practical matter, ESPN/Fox can make use of them by calling for the game to be one of the games they want to broadcast.

The most interesting thing about the GOR is how it's worded - the schools only grant the rights necessary for the conference to meet its obligations under its contracts with ESPN/Fox. SO . . . . what would happen if the ESPN/Fox media deals were terminated for some reason after the 2015-16 season? The technical answer is that the GORs would still exist, but they would be meaningless because the Conference would have NO obligations to ESPN/Fox.

That's why some people think there is a 'backdoor' way to get out of the GORs. ESPN/Fox almost certainly built in rights to terminate their agreements if certain things occur - like, maybe, for example, Texas, Oklahoma and three other schools leaving the Big 12. ESPN/Fox would probably not want to keep paying the Big 12 $200 million per year if only 5 lesser schools remained. Likewise, they would not want to allow the Big 12 to just replace Texas and Oklahoma with, for example, UTEP and BYU, and have to keep paying $200 million per year. UTEP and BYU may be fine schools but they will not draw the huge TV audience that Texas and Oklahoma will.

So that's basically the picture. No one knows what the Big 12 agreements with ESPN/Fox say, but it's reasonable to assume the networks built in at least some termination rights to protect themselves in the event that, notwithstanding the GOR, some major event occurs.

What events might trigger ESPN/Fox rights to terminate - and as a result essentially make the GOR meaningless? Dissolution of the conference voluntarily (requires 8 votes) would probably be one. The Big 12 not being considered a conference by the NCAA (less than 7 members, I think), maybe that one too. Texas leaving the conference, even if everyone else stays? or perhaps Texas and Oklahoma both leaving? Who knows . . . and that's what these message board are all about because we love to speculate and seize on the latest tidbit of information to try to see into the crystal ball of future realignment.

You started well in the first paragraph by following what the contract says, but after that your post is mostly conjecture, and mostly incorrect. Thanks for playing though.

Lurker, may I ask what school you got your law degree from?