(10-30-2015 08:44 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 08:34 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 07:57 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(10-29-2015 06:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-29-2015 06:42 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  What does RINO stand for?

Republican in Name Only.

In other words, not a far right wing Republican who toes the line on every issue.

Someone like Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, George HW Bush, Bob Dole, John McCain and Mitt Romney. Ronald Reagan and George W Bush are borderline RINOs since they supported immigration reform.

The only one on that list that I would _personally_ use the RINO on in that list was McCain. He voted pro-Democratic positions so many times, and would use one or two 'stances' to declare he was a republican.

I don't think anyone else on that list fits my definition of a RINO (Nixon's a "Maybe" in that regard..) (anyone who marks Romney as a RINO, in particular has NO CLUE what they're talking about).

Back in their day, Nixon and Ford were considered "Rockefeller Republicans". Rockefeller Republicans was another name for the moderate wing of the Republican Party. The RINO term really did not come about until the 1990s.

IMHO, there is a distinction between being a RINO and a Moderate. The Moderate can at least sometime side with the conservative wing of the party, whereas it seems the RINOs almost never side with the conservatives and often speak ill of their fellow party members in public.

No, Nixon was to the right of Rockefeller. There actually was a moderately liberal wing of the Republican party lead by Rockefeller in the 60s. In the 68 election, Reagan ran to the right, Rockefeller to the left and Nixon in the center. You could be correct on Ford, but I really don't think so. Hard to remember as he wasn't really aligned with anyone, which is why he was selected as VP when Agnew resigned.

The 70s was when the parties realigned. The liberals in New England and the upper Midwest all became Democrats while conservatives in those areas and many in the south started becoming Republicans.

Good old Spiro T Agnew, had one of the greatest lines of all time. Right after many of the race riots in the late '60's/ early '70's, Folks were yelling at Him to come see Their ghetto. His reply was "I didn't say I wouldn't go into ghetto areas. I've been in many of them and to some extent I would say this; if you've seen one city slum, you've seen them all."

Spiro T. Agnew

(10-30-2015 09:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 08:47 AM)bullet Wrote:  The country has really moved pretty far to the right since the 70s.

On what issue or issues?

On the desire for 'free' programs from the gov't, financed by big businesses and the %1. And a willful ignorance of economics and finance.

This country's mentality of late has devolved to 'privatize profits and socialize losses'.

(10-30-2015 09:39 AM)bullet Wrote:  The role of government
Remember, a Democrat did welfare reform

Actually, a republican congress did it. Remember your civics class, congress passes laws, the president signs and executes them. To be clear, that's a clarification point, as I have often expressed the opinion that both Clinton and the republican congress deserve considerable credit for getting this done. And a subsequent democrat has undone a lot of the reform. Plus the post-reform 1990s welfare system was probably further left than the 1970s version.

But more importantly, with 80,000 pages in the Federal Register, and 175,000 pages in the CFR, and 80,000 new regulations in the last 20 years, exactly how has the country moved to the RIGHT with regard to the role of government?

Save the other points for later.

(10-30-2015 09:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 08:47 AM)bullet Wrote:  The country has really moved pretty far to the right since the 70s.

On what issue or issues?

And I used to consider myself a "conservative." Now I consider myself a "moderate conservative."

Everybody's so different, I haven't changed. Don't think that was what Joe Walsh was singing about, but it fits.

(10-30-2015 09:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 09:39 AM)bullet Wrote:  The role of government
Remember, a Democrat did welfare reform

Actually, a republican congress did it. Remember your civics class, congress passes laws, the president signs and executes them. To be clear, that's a clarification point, as I have often expressed the opinion that both Clinton and the republican congress deserve considerable credit for getting this done. And a subsequent democrat has undone a lot of the reform. Plus the post-reform 1990s welfare system was probably further left than the 1970s version.

But more importantly, with 80,000 pages in the Federal Register, and 175,000 pages in the CFR, and 80,000 new regulations in the last 20 years, exactly how has the country moved to the RIGHT with regard to the role of government?

Save the other points for later.

Yes Congress passed it, but do you really think Carter or LBJ would have signed it?

(10-30-2015 11:05 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 09:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-30-2015 09:39 AM)bullet Wrote:  The role of government
Remember, a Democrat did welfare reform

Actually, a republican congress did it. Remember your civics class, congress passes laws, the president signs and executes them. To be clear, that's a clarification point, as I have often expressed the opinion that both Clinton and the republican congress deserve considerable credit for getting this done. And a subsequent democrat has undone a lot of the reform. Plus the post-reform 1990s welfare system was probably further left than the 1970s version.
But more importantly, with 80,000 pages in the Federal Register, and 175,000 pages in the CFR, and 80,000 new regulations in the last 20 years, exactly how has the country moved to the RIGHT with regard to the role of government?
Save the other points for later.

Yes Congress passed it, but do you really think Carter or LBJ would have signed it?

Hell no. I've repeatedly pissed off right-wingers on here for saying that Clinton deserves credit for signing it. He does, but he couldn't get it through the prior congress controlled by democrats either. That's why I said my comment was a clarification rather than a substantive point. Clinton was a better republican than any of the RINOs.

I just don't see the rightward move that some claim. Go back and read the political discussion in the 70s. Look at the issues that were being debated, and look at where we are today, and we are to the left of what was the 1970s "left" position on most of them.

(10-30-2015 09:56 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  This country's mentality of late has devolved to 'privatize profits and socialize losses'.

I'd say it's more driving profits offshore and subsidizing the inevitable losses that remain.