Does this irritate you, that the people with the biggest/oldest voices are the ones that get to dictate to fans who are the undisputed better teams?

Seen quite a few fans on the message board just automatically say because certain teams don't belong to five certain conferences, they are automatically not considered worthy of consideration for the national title game.

Except the FBS conferences agreeing to this CFP system was supposed to rest any doubt that the 126 teams in FBS didn't belong. Conclusion: all teams should be considered worthy of consideration.

So what's with this media culture that says teams have no chance, despite their accomplishments?

The idea that teams from every conference is equal depends upon the idea that every conference is equal... They simply are not.

Going 12-0 from the AAC, MW, CUSA, SBC, and MAC simply is NOT equal to going 12-0...or 11-1...and maybe even 10-2 from the SEC, B10, PAC 12, or Big XII. You can't even compare the two. In every one of the Power conferences you have multiple teams in the Top 10, and numerous others in the Top 25 that you have to play week-in and week out. Yes, Memphis beat Ole Miss, but they could gear up for that game; Ole Miss has to deal with their previous weeks and more importantly the remainder of the grind.

Take the best out of any of the G-5 conferences and they would finish in the middle of a Power conference...at best...because they couldn't hold up to the constant pounding.

(11-03-2015 05:02 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  Does this irritate you, that the people with the biggest/oldest voices are the ones that get to dictate to fans who are the undisputed better teams?

Seen quite a few fans on the message board just automatically say because certain teams don't belong to five certain conferences, they are automatically not considered worthy of consideration for the national title game.

Except the FBS conferences agreeing to this CFP system was supposed to rest any doubt that the 126 teams in FBS didn't belong. Conclusion: all teams should be considered worthy of consideration.

So what's with this media culture that says teams have no chance, despite their accomplishments?

Because it is the same type of reporting that you see from the regular news media. msnbc and cnn are gonna tell u one thing. Fox another. Difference is there is no one to do anything differently in sports.

(11-03-2015 05:46 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The idea that teams from every conference is equal depends upon the idea that every conference is equal... They simply are not.

Going 12-0 from the AAC, MW, CUSA, SBC, and MAC simply is NOT equal to going 12-0...or 11-1...and maybe even 10-2 from the SEC, B10, PAC 12, or Big XII. You can't even compare the two. In every one of the Power conferences you have multiple teams in the Top 10, and numerous others in the Top 25 that you have to play week-in and week out. Yes, Memphis beat Ole Miss, but they could gear up for that game; Ole Miss has to deal with their previous weeks and more importantly the remainder of the grind.

Take the best out of any of the G-5 conferences and they would finish in the middle of a Power conference...at best...because they couldn't hold up to the constant pounding.

You can't just lump all G5 schedules together and all P5 schedules together. The generalization is unwarranted. Indeed, there are some G5 schedules that compare to P5 schedules.

For instance, Iowa plays in the B1G but has a schedule probably lighter than Memphis' schedule in the AAC.

Iowa = Pitt, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Illinois, Minnesota, Maryland, Purdue, Nebraska, Iowa St., Indiana, N. Texas- none of which are ranked

Memphis = #19 Ole Miss, #23 Temple, #18 Houston, #27 Navy, Cincinnati, USF, Tulsa, Tulane, Bowling Green, Kansas - 4 ranked opponents

However, Houston also plays in the AAC, but has a rather weak schedule compared to Memphis...

Houston = SMU, Tulsa, Texas St., Tulane, UCF, Cincy, Vandy, Louisville, Navy, UConn #15 Memphis

and compared to Penn St. in the B1G

PSU = #1 Ohio St., #6 Michigan St., #13 Michigan, #23 Temple, Northwestern, Illinois, Maryland, Indiana, SDSU, Buffalo, Army.

(11-03-2015 05:46 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The idea that teams from every conference is equal depends upon the idea that every conference is equal... They simply are not.

Going 12-0 from the AAC, MW, CUSA, SBC, and MAC simply is NOT equal to going 12-0...or 11-1...and maybe even 10-2 from the SEC, B10, PAC 12, or Big XII. You can't even compare the two. In every one of the Power conferences you have multiple teams in the Top 10, and numerous others in the Top 25 that you have to play week-in and week out. Yes, Memphis beat Ole Miss, but they could gear up for that game; Ole Miss has to deal with their previous weeks and more importantly the remainder of the grind.

Take the best out of any of the G-5 conferences and they would finish in the middle of a Power conference...at best...because they coulqdn't hold up to the constant pounding.

Well, there were years that the WAC had more than 1 team in the to[ 25. Back in the 1980s, BYU, Air Force, Wyoming and San Diego State were in the top 20 at the same time.

Than the WAC in the late 2000 had UNR, Hawaii and Boise State in the area.

MWC had UTah, TCU and BYU.

Now the American have Temple, Houston and Memphis.

(11-03-2015 07:06 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 05:46 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The idea that teams from every conference is equal depends upon the idea that every conference is equal... They simply are not.

Going 12-0 from the AAC, MW, CUSA, SBC, and MAC simply is NOT equal to going 12-0...or 11-1...and maybe even 10-2 from the SEC, B10, PAC 12, or Big XII. You can't even compare the two. In every one of the Power conferences you have multiple teams in the Top 10, and numerous others in the Top 25 that you have to play week-in and week out. Yes, Memphis beat Ole Miss, but they could gear up for that game; Ole Miss has to deal with their previous weeks and more importantly the remainder of the grind.

Take the best out of any of the G-5 conferences and they would finish in the middle of a Power conference...at best...because they couldn't hold up to the constant pounding.

You can't just lump all G5 schedules together and all P5 schedules together. The generalization is unwarranted. Indeed, there are some G5 schedules that compare to P5 schedules.

For instance, Iowa plays in the B1G but has a schedule probably lighter than Memphis' schedule in the AAC.

Iowa = Pitt, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Illinois, Minnesota, Maryland, Purdue, Nebraska, Iowa St., Indiana, N. Texas- none of which are ranked

Memphis = #19 Ole Miss, #23 Temple, #18 Houston, #27 Navy, Cincinnati, USF, Tulsa, Tulane, Bowling Green, Kansas - 4 ranked opponents

However, Houston also plays in the AAC, but has a rather weak schedule compared to Memphis...

Houston = SMU, Tulsa, Texas St., Tulane, UCF, Cincy, Vandy, Louisville, Navy, UConn #15 Memphis

and compared to Penn St. in the B1G

PSU = #1 Ohio St., #6 Michigan St., #13 Michigan, #23 Temple, Northwestern, Illinois, Maryland, Indiana, SDSU, Buffalo, Army.

The other curious thing is Iowa's opponents' winning percentages. Their opponents have the best overall win-loss records added together VERSUS the rest of their division.

(11-03-2015 05:46 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The idea that teams from every conference is equal depends upon the idea that every conference is equal... They simply are not.

Going 12-0 from the AAC, MW, CUSA, SBC, and MAC simply is NOT equal to going 12-0...or 11-1...and maybe even 10-2 from the SEC, B10, PAC 12, or Big XII. You can't even compare the two. In every one of the Power conferences you have multiple teams in the Top 10, and numerous others in the Top 25 that you have to play week-in and week out. Yes, Memphis beat Ole Miss, but they could gear up for that game; Ole Miss has to deal with their previous weeks and more importantly the remainder of the grind.

Take the best out of any of the G-5 conferences and they would finish in the middle of a Power conference...at best...because they couldn't hold up to the constant pounding.

Maybe, but the P5 schools at least get to play half of those games (or more) at home. That has to be taken into consideration but it never is by the MSM.

We can talk winning percentages and all of that but what it isn't an issue of that, or even of relativity. It's a matter of competition. The higher up conferences face teams in conference that, on average, have a higher level of skill and talent on their teams.

It isn't a perfect measure; hell, some G5 squads from year to year have a lot of talent and are equal to or better than the lower rank P5s. But, the meet of the schedule is still a lot more talented and athletic than the meet of the G5 schedule.

Look to the mean.

(11-03-2015 07:06 PM)YNot Wrote:  For instance, Iowa plays in the B1G but has a schedule probably lighter than Memphis' schedule in the AAC.

Iowa = Pitt, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Illinois, Minnesota, Maryland, Purdue, Nebraska, Iowa St., Indiana, N. Texas- none of which are ranked

Memphis = #19 Ole Miss, #23 Temple, #18 Houston, #27 Navy, Cincinnati, USF, Tulsa, Tulane, Bowling Green, Kansas - 4 ranked opponents

And Memphis also just beat unranked Bowling Green by 3, in a game where it looked like neither side had much of a defense and the last score would win it.

And of course, if both finish undefeated, Iowa will have one much more highly ranked win than anybody Memphis has faced, in the CCG.

Making undefeated Iowa vs undefeated Memphis an interesting question as far as whom would be higher ranked by the CFP committee ... but also likely a moot point, since neither would be in the top 4 and an undefeated Memphis is clearly taking the Access Bowl slot whether or not Memphis is ranked above an undefeated Big Ten champion.

(11-03-2015 07:30 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We can talk winning percentages and all of that but what it isn't an issue of that, or even of relativity. It's a matter of competition. The higher up conferences face teams in conference that, on average, have a higher level of skill and talent on their teams.

It isn't a perfect measure; hell, some G5 squads from year to year have a lot of talent and are equal to or better than the lower rank P5s. But, the meet of the schedule is still a lot more talented and athletic than the meet of the G5 schedule.

Look to the mean.

Not true. G5 teams can play and beat better quality P5 teams.

Quick question, who wins if Iowa plays @Cincinnati?

(11-03-2015 05:46 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  The idea that teams from every conference is equal depends upon the idea that every conference is equal... They simply are not.

Going 12-0 from the AAC, MW, CUSA, SBC, and MAC simply is NOT equal to going 12-0...or 11-1...and maybe even 10-2 from the SEC, B10, PAC 12, or Big XII. You can't even compare the two. In every one of the Power conferences you have multiple teams in the Top 10, and numerous others in the Top 25 that you have to play week-in and week out. Yes, Memphis beat Ole Miss, but they could gear up for that game; Ole Miss has to deal with their previous weeks and more importantly the remainder of the grind.

Take the best out of any of the G-5 conferences and they would finish in the middle of a Power conference...at best...because they couldn't hold up to the constant pounding.

This^^^

Fans of programs like Boise State love to talk winning percentages and isolated wins against P5 schools. It is true that Boise has had some nice wins in its short time as an FBS program, but put them in even the weakest P5 conference and they become a .500 team at best in most years. Over time they might be able to produce an occasional contender, but achieving the same rate of success in a P5 conference just wouldn't happen. And don't point to TCU. The Frogs' situation is completely different -- different history, different recruiting base.

Assume for a second that no one remains unbeaten and somehow Ole Miss and Memphis are fighting for that last playoff spot. Ole Miss with two losses, including one to Memphis, would likely get in over Memphis. Stronger schedule and assuming a CCG win over Florida, the Rebels would have beaten one of the teams it lost to. The point is that Memphis, even if they run the table, would have their win over Ole Miss as their "best win." Even a one-loss team from any P5 conference should have a better overall resume, all but ensuring that a G5 school won't make the playoffs. That's not P5-G5 bias; that's the ability to look at an entire schedule and determine that the G5 school shouldn't get in over a one-loss Stanford, Notre Dame, Alabama, Florida, Michigan State, Ohio State, TCU, etc. You just can't compare sweeping a bunch of SMUs, Tulanes and UCFs with playing Oklahoma, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma State, etc. and dropping one.

It's not that teams outside the 5 power conferences aren't going to be looked at, it's that it is very hard to get to the point you are going to be in the top 4. You can easily lose one game in a power conference, become outright conference champs and still not be there. Think about that, we had the Big 12 champs last year lose one game a piece and it wasn't good enough. If that's not good enough some years, it's really hard for most in the public to accept that someone who played a significantly weaker schedule should be in. It is not impossible to convince people, but you need to dominate almost every week to make up for the fact that your resume stands very little chance of looking like one of the best 4.