(01-17-2016 07:38 PM)Chris02m1 Wrote:  i would be totally fine swapping to the coastal with virginia tech.

FSU-MIA
CLEM-GT
NC St-UNC
WAKE-DUKE
VT-VIRG
LOU-PITT
BC-SYR

It's the fair answer if we are stuck with divisions and want a true zipper format

Coastal runs the acc though and they won't let it happen

(01-17-2016 07:38 PM)Chris02m1 Wrote:  i would be totally fine swapping to the coastal with virginia tech.

FSU-MIA
CLEM-GT
NC St-UNC
WAKE-DUKE
VT-VIRG
LOU-PITT
BC-SYR

I can't see any objections to this format. It still gives VT a game in NC every year which they want, but it does load up the Atlantic even more.

Makes sense. Would Va Tech go for it though?

I've been a longtime proponent of the VaTech for Syracuse swap. The only possible risk is a rematch after rivalry week between the Virginia schools or BC and Syracuse. Lately, that risk does not seem very likely.

(01-14-2016 11:15 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 10:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 10:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Never happen. Nobody in the Coastal wants to possibly get stuck with the two powers.

Pitt would HAPPILY play in a division with Florida State and Clemson. Where do we sign?

I can't speak for any other school but from Pitt's perspective, we would dearly LOVE to play you both on an annual basis.

We're worried about being stuck with the teams on the other end of the spectrum. We have to sell tickets and convince a boatload of diehard NFL fans that college football is also worth watching/spending money on.

Yeah but who cares about the 2 schools carrying this conference being stuck with all 3 of bc cuse and wake every single season right?

Who cares that the excuse for the divisions was the zipper model all while ignoring sticking us with both dead recruiting areas in the northeast. And somehow both va teams stay in the coastal

At least you were honest this time. There is a reason why fans of the 2 powers are pissed. This format is crap for both

Brother, I have no idea what you're talking about?

I've been completely honest about my opinions right from the jump.

You're looking out for your school and I am looking out for mine. No hard feelings.

As for carrying the league, what exactly have you carried it to? How has your success helped my school?

(01-15-2016 10:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 10:43 PM)marleycard Wrote:  Well, it worked about as well as it could have this year with the status quo. Combine that with the Coastal's clear impending comeuppance and the importance/history of some of these cross-division rivalries and I don't see anything changing in the near future. For once I'm pretty convinced it's even the right decision.

I agree. I think the NCAA may have saved the ACC from itself (or at least its most vocal in-house critics). The whining will no doubt continue, and maybe even get louder. Some of the views expressed here are, IMO, just hyperbole born out of frustration.

Nobody in the Coastal would want to have to play Clemson and FSU every year? Seriously? That sounds as if someone is saying the Coastal teams are "chicken" - they are afraid to play good teams. What nonsense. If other ACC members didn't want to play FSU every year, why did we invite them to join the league in the first place? IIRC, they were pretty good when they were invited.

And they were invited shortly after Clemson had its first strong period of consistently good teams in the 80's. So the other 7 schools (now six with the departure of Maryland) were quite willing to play both of them in the same year. We played a full round robin. But once FSU joined, Clemson came back to the pack, and didn't start to really separate again until about 5 years ago, after the league had split into two divisions.

I think it's safe to say most Coastal teams would love to play Clemson and FSU every year, as long as they didn't have to sacrifice relationships that are just as, and in some cases more, important to them. The divisions are the way they are because that is the best way to reconcile the conflicting needs of all its members. For (some) Clemson and FSU fans to say the ACC ought to think a certain way because they think that way may be understandable. But it's not how conferences work.

And to say the league doesn't care about football they way it should, that too is nonsense. Every move the league has made since 1980 belies that notion. By multiple conference commissioners. There are a lot of critics of the current commissioner, and almost to a man those critics aren't smart enough or competent enough to sniff his jockstrap. You can bet the people who count - the university presidents - don't share their opinions.

For all the whining, ACC football over the past several years is at its highest level since the league was started in 1953. We got here with the same divisions that some are eager to dump. To them I say be careful what you wish for.

Well said. 100% accurate.

Without FSU/Clemson, the ACC would have been ripped apart and Pitt would be in the Big 12 with huge traveling costs or in the American. So they've helped you a heck of a lot. Without those 2 schools, the ACC would have a mid major reputation in football and would not be apart of a big 5. It would be a big 4 had FSU/Clemson been taken by one of the other 4.

Anyways the bs zipper division crap warrants the change of either BC or Syracuse being swapped for one of the Virginia schools. Don't care which we get but you cant use the zipper excuse only when it benefits the Coastal schools. There is no reason that the Atlantic doesn't get a Virginia team while getting both of the NE teams.

(01-18-2016 11:11 AM)Ragu Wrote:  Without FSU/Clemson, the ACC would have been ripped apart and Pitt would be in the Big 12 with huge traveling costs or in the American. So they've helped you a heck of a lot. Without those 2 schools, the ACC would have a mid major reputation in football and would not be apart of a big 5. It would be a big 4 had FSU/Clemson been taken by one of the other 4.

Anyways the bs zipper division crap warrants the change of either BC or Syracuse being swapped for one of the Virginia schools. Don't care which we get but you cant use the zipper excuse only when it benefits the Coastal schools. There is no reason that the Atlantic doesn't get a Virginia team while getting both of the NE teams.

Oh, the bogeyman theory. Why did I ever think it would be logical and adult?

Never mind. Thank you for saving our asses from eternal damnation. Please stay forever. We desperately need you and we're willing to do whatever it takes to keep you in the fold because you clearly have all kinds of options and are obviously very loyal to this league.

What else can we do to make life easier on you aside from simply capitulating to all of your scheduling demands?

Can we spot you two touchdowns when we play? Can we provide better hookers than the ones your boosters are providing? Can we have our police assist your police in covering up of all sorts of crimes involving your players?

Hey, I have an idea. Maybe we can teach you how math works so the next time some idiotic Big 12 rumor - with no basis in mathematical reasoning - gets floated around we help you complete the equations so as to not look so goddamm stupid the next time. Would that work?

We are here for you. What can we do for you after all that you've done for us over these past three whole seasons?

Idiotic Big 12 rumor? There were rumors of Pitt going to the Big 12 all over the place before the ACC threw them a life preserver.

It's not a boogeyman theory. It's logical. Had FSU/Clemson left this league, the ACC would have been torn apart. Everybody knows this. Maybe you missed it since you weren't around when these things were being talked about.

Pitt has had their own issues with arrests and such too. Not like you are clean school.

The zipper division stuff was talked about with Maryland included in the league. Now with them out, we need the true zipper divisions back. BC/Syracuse on one side and Va Tech/UVA on the other is not a zipper format.

(01-18-2016 11:11 AM)Ragu Wrote:  Without FSU/Clemson, the ACC would have been ripped apart and Pitt would be in the Big 12 with huge traveling costs or in the American. So they've helped you a heck of a lot. Without those 2 schools, the ACC would have a mid major reputation in football and would not be apart of a big 5. It would be a big 4 had FSU/Clemson been taken by one of the other 4.

This is the key point it seems to always elude you rocket scientists. Everything you say is true in a doomsday scenario.

Oh, no! We're gonna have to play Tulsa, SMU and Tulane - or Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas - from now until the end of time! We really should've kissed Florida State's asses a little harder when we had the chance! If only we had known then what we know now!

I know how to fix it! Let's create an AAC within the ACC and we will play that schedule.

Brilliant!

That way we get the play a bunch of teams that basically are about as good / respected as the mid and top tier AAC teams so that the other schools can improve their home slates and so that they can all feel better about themselves.

Also, we should let them play each other for the conference championship too – the two top ranked teams. It would be awesome to be a part of a self-imposed caste system in which we played all the league's worst teams and in which we never had any real opportunity to improve.

And, in return, we'd get… Well, uh… Never mind what we get out of the deal! We should just be thankful we're not playing Houston or Memphis right now! We don't call the shots here, they do. Why? Because some of their fans said so, that's why?

It's an awesome idea! Why wouldn't anyone else go for that? It must because those schools are all stupid and selfish.

OK, now back to planet earth. You weren't taken by any of the other big four. Do you know why? Because you don't bring enough value to them, that's why?

And let's be real here, when you say the "Big Four," what you really mean is the SEC.

Do you really want to go to the Big Ten? Does that seem like a good fit to you?

Do you really want to go to the Pac-12? Oh, you would have a ball playing against The University of Wake Forest at Boulder at 9 o'clock Eastern on a Saturday night. More awesome reasoning.

What about the Big 12? That seems like a very functional operation there. I mean why wouldn't you want to join that? You know what they say about bad marriages: the best way to save them is by adding children to the mix.

Here's the deal, dude. You guys may not want to face reality but it is your reality – and our reality too – nonetheless. Whether you like it or not we are all equal partners. You happen to have the best football programs. You also happen to have the most natural advantages.

We will certainly try our best to overcome our natural disadvantages but if you didn't want to partner with us you probably should not have agreed to allow in the club three years ago. Once again, that's all on you.

(01-18-2016 11:42 AM)Ragu Wrote:  Idiotic Big 12 rumor? There were rumors of Pitt going to the Big 12 all over the place before the ACC threw them a life preserver.

It's not a boogeyman theory. It's logical. Had FSU/Clemson left this league, the ACC would have been torn apart. Everybody knows this. Maybe you missed it since you weren't around when these things were being talked about.

Pitt has had their own issues with arrests and such too. Not like you are clean school.

The zipper division stuff was talked about with Maryland included in the league. Now with them out, we need the true zipper divisions back. BC/Syracuse on one side and Va Tech/UVA on the other is not a zipper format.

Here's the difference, brother. The Pitt rumors were actually news reports that were coming from reputable news sources like the Dallas Morning News and the Houston Chronicle. Conversely, the Florida State/Clemson rumors were coming from the blogs of the Dude from West Virginia and his alter ego, Tuxedo Yoda.

And, yes, those two sources are one in the same. You will have to trust me on that one.

Do you see the difference there, kimosabe? It wouldn't surprise me one little bit if your answer was no.

Also, your threat is not logical at all. It is absolutely a boogie man theory. Let's think about this for a second.

Seriously, take a few deep breaths and tell me where else you were going to go?

Keep thinking....

Need a little more time?

The only answer is the SEC! I know that, you know that, the whole world knows that!

The problem from your perspective is the SEC knows that as well and they clearly don't want or need you. You really should've taken their offer in the early 90s.

Also, let's be real for a second. The ACC could give you everything you ever wanted and if the SEC came courting you, you would be gone in a flash. You have made that much perfectly clear by overplaying your hand here.

So, basically, you have disincentivized everyone from acting in your interests because you don't have very many realistic options and the one potential option you may have one day is such a no-brainer that it makes no sense to even try to prepare against it.

You are not going to the Big 12 because it makes no sense for you to go there. They are openly fighting amongst themselves and one of the two pillars of that league is openly soliciting offers from other potential suitors.

And you want to run to that situation – presumably to save them from themselves? Seriously, are you crazy or do you just assume that we don't have Internet access and/or are completely incapable of understanding how leverage works?

You know who has leverage here? Schools like Virginia and North Carolina, that's who. The Big Ten would take those two schools in a heartbeat and everyone knows that too.

That's why their threats actually should be taken with some seriousness. I still don't think they could possibly replicate in a new league what they have here but at least they do have options. Schools like Florida State and Clemson, and like Pittsburgh and Syracuse, we don't have any options whatsoever.

It is pretty obvious that you are better at football. It is equally obvious that we are better at basic reasoning.

So Pitt votes no on switching Syracuse with VT?

(01-17-2016 02:50 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  I'd like to see the ACC championship be between the two highest ranked ACC teams, even if they are in the same division. Clemson could have won 2 or 3 more ACC titles recently if this was the setup.

I also wouldn't mind gettting rid of the permanent cross divisional rival to have more variety in opponents every year.

it would also help if FSU and Clem played Va Tech more often.

That's just what I don't want. If we were the SEC, and always had three or more teams worthy of being included in NY6 bowls, I would agree with you. But we aren't. And I would rather not risk getting only one team in the NY6, which is a likely outcome of pitting our #1 and #2 teams in a CCG. It's what would have happened if FSU had played Clemson a second time and lost (because UNC would probably have lost to whichever one they had to play in the regular season).

Well, I don't vote for Pitt so I cannot say one way or the other how Pitt would officially feel about such a swap? I will say that of all of the crazy proposed divisional changes, that's definitely on the milder side of things - at least as it pertains to the damage that would be inflicted on the University of Pittsburgh's football program.

However, personally speaking, I would definitely be against swapping Virginia Tech for Syracuse. Those are basically our two best hances at a rivalry in this new conference and we already play them both every year. Substituting one of them for an extra game versus Wake Forest or whomever, definitely hurts us.

Why would be be in favor of that? To take one for the team? Who else is taking one for the team? I feel like we've taken enough bullets for the team. It's someone else's turn.

So, from my perspective, no, Pitt should not be and likely would not be in favor of this swap.

However, maybe if we get Notre Dame on our schedule every year, that is a trade-off we would be willing to make? I'm just spitballing here. Everyone else is clearly looking after number one and we should too.

(01-18-2016 12:12 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  So Pitt votes no on switching Syracuse with VT?

He's so mad ha. Wrote all that crap out and a lot of it has no merit. So funny how fired up he got though

(01-15-2016 05:33 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If you guys want it to pass, you better keep UVa+VT+UNC+Duke together. Breaking them up as likely to fly as telling FSU they won't play Miami or Clemson every year - a non-starter.

Exactly!!!

Which is why everytime divisions switching is brought up, we always come back to the way it is........ due to 1 or 2 "traditional" acc schools are pissed at the move.

So Status Quo' it is..... but please continue these threads as you like.

FLossY Out...

(01-18-2016 01:11 PM)HRFlossY Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 05:33 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If you guys want it to pass, you better keep UVa+VT+UNC+Duke together. Breaking them up as likely to fly as telling FSU they won't play Miami or Clemson every year - a non-starter.

Exactly!!!

Which is why everytime divisions switching is brought up, we always come back to the way it is........ due to 1 or 2 "traditional" acc schools are pissed at the move.

So Status Quo' it is..... but please continue these threads as you like.

FLossY Out...

This is why if you're going to move a school, it has to be two newbies.

Which is why Va Tech and Syracuse qualify.

(01-18-2016 02:41 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Which is why Va Tech and Syracuse qualify.

"Newbie" is relative. It could as easily refer to FSU as it does to Va Tech.