(02-04-2016 02:01 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  I have no doubt President Bardo wants this. Many fans do too. If football returns, the goal is FBS as soon as possible. Wichita MIGHT be open to CUSA if we felt it would be a short term stay in order to build a solid FBS foundation and gain entrance into the AAC or MWC. Those two conferences are the goal with the AAC being favored.

Yes, we absolutely want more Texas exposure. All of our athletic teams recruit Texas as is, and we target Texas on the academic side as well.

First of all, good luck with football.

But one challenge that WSU might have is that the MWC and/or AAC might not be willing to take a startup FCS and the Belt, the MAC, and CUSA might not be willing to take a team that will only stay if they stink.

However, the promise of WSU basketball for a few years might provide some incentive to CUSA. And you would be in the WEST, which is where, if anywhere, CUSA needs teams.

CUSA....maybe. But the already have 14 teams and 3 newbie programs that are still struggling to qualify for their first bowl berth. And UAB is coming back and will probably need time to sort itself out. Adding another FCS to FBS team....might not be what they're looking for.

(02-04-2016 04:19 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 03:33 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Plus schools like Wichita State, Milwaukee, UTA, Little Rock, and some others could add football to be part of this group. They will have a separate basketball tournament. This means schools like the Big East will lose their meal tickets because they will not be part of the big boys anymore.

Oh that's it. You clog every thread with pimping every two bit directional open admissions clown-and-barber college into FBS, and that's fine. I'd advise you to figure out a more social hobby, but it's your life.

But don't sit there and tell me that the big-money, high-attendance, large-fan-base programs of the Big East are riding the FBS schools for a "meal ticket". WE had those conversations, we had that debate and we went through that with the old Big East and "New Big East" football schools. And at the end of the day, our programs are getting TV revenue in line with the other "BCS Conference" basketball programs. (IF you take the conventional wisdom of a 75-25 FB/BB split, the P5 are all taking in $20M+. 25% of $20M is $5M, and we're getting $4M per school from Fox. Because, much like Penn STate and Texas TEch have long-established traditional fanbases whether anyone else likes it or not, so do we.)

Go start a thread about how the Seven Sisters should all jump to FBS and field teams of gender nonconformists and leave the Big East alone.

It is well known that non-football schools have been holding down the football members for a long time by placing rules holding those conferences down. Your school is one of the best examples that it split the Big East apart. The Big East is not strong as it used to be without the likes of Pitt, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Miami, Virginia Tech, Syracuse and so forth.

MVC is about to split apart as well as the football schools are not happy with the non-football schools. I heard the football schools rather wanted the Dakota schools, and not a sorry Illinois-Chicago team that does not help their RPI ratings.

(02-04-2016 12:10 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 11:40 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  But on the other hand, there is no basis for denying them.

Sure there is. "You're cutting in on our action." That's a legally valid response.

The MVFC would have some kind of a case if they currently resembled a lower-FBS conference. But they don't. They're not on TV, they don't have FBS level attendance. MVFC membership is split between the MVC and Summit. Athletic budgets are less than you find in the MAC or Sun Belt or the bottom of CUSA. Some of the strongest programs were Division II not so long ago. That's not what an FBS conference looks like.

Quote: It goes against the values of this country, to artificially hold someone back who possesses the desire and has reasonably demonstrated the potential to succeed.

The courts would agree, I think.

Nope. You can't sue your way into a club (without a racial/gender/religious/etc claim.)

Quote:Also, I don't get your point about competition, voting power and the CFP.

The current board is 24 members, 5 from the P5 conferences (who I believe get 2 votes each), 5 from the G5 conferences, 5 from FCS and 5 from the non-football conferences. The FCS and non-FB conferences rotate to fill the seats. (Plus an AD, a faculty athletic rep, a student-athlete and a woman's athletics rep.)

NCAA governance article

Quote:
- The MAC already competes with the MVC/MVFC.

Not for FBS recruits. A kid who has offers to start at Northern Illinois and Northern Iowa is going to Northern Illinois, hands down.

Quote:- All DI conference already vote on DI issues. That wouldn't change. Obviously, there would be more votes on FBS issues. So?

But their votes don't all count the same. Lower-FBS conferences today are guaranteed one vote. It's balanced G5 vs FCS vs nonfootball vs P5, with P5 having double weight.

Quote:- The CFP might expand in 10 years ... or maybe it gives all money to just the P conferences anyway. You don't know.

Maybe it gives all the money to the P5 conferences. Or maybe it gives money to all the FCS conferences. What it doesn't do, is give money to some lower-FBS conferences and not others. Otherwise the Sun Belt wouldn't be in the current contract.

Changing the NCAA rules is a pretty big ordeal. It doesn't happen without some serious reason to do so, and some sort of a consensus across Division I. ("We'd better do anything the P5 says or they might split" does count as a consensus.")

The football members in the MVC are being hold back to have to spend the same amount on their department as the same with the non-football members. That is why hybrid conferences should be outlaw. Break the basketball to Tier 1 and Tier 2. Big East goes to Tier 2 because they have different agendas than schools in the ACC, AAC and so forth.

(02-04-2016 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 02:01 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  I have no doubt President Bardo wants this. Many fans do too. If football returns, the goal is FBS as soon as possible. Wichita MIGHT be open to CUSA if we felt it would be a short term stay in order to build a solid FBS foundation and gain entrance into the AAC or MWC. Those two conferences are the goal with the AAC being favored.

Yes, we absolutely want more Texas exposure. All of our athletic teams recruit Texas as is, and we target Texas on the academic side as well.

First of all, good luck with football.

But one challenge that WSU might have is that the MWC and/or AAC might not be willing to take a startup FCS and the Belt, the MAC, and CUSA might not be willing to take a team that will only stay if they stink.

However, the promise of WSU basketball for a few years might provide some incentive to CUSA. And you would be in the WEST, which is where, if anywhere, CUSA needs teams.

CUSA....maybe. But the already have 14 teams and 3 newbie programs that are still struggling to qualify for their first bowl berth. And UAB is coming back and will probably need time to sort itself out. Adding another FCS to FBS team....might not be what they're looking for.

I doubt the people that make these types of decisions make a multi-million dollar investment into anything until they have a guarantee in place, words on paper, signatures at the bottom, that they have a landing place worth the investment. What this movement tells me, is not that the desire is there from Wichita (that much is obvious), it tells me that one or more conferences have already approached Wichita and proposed an agreement.

(02-04-2016 02:15 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  Talk about a big risk. When tons of programs are losing money in football.l not in the P5. Valley is crap though so dont blame them for trying.

This is what I am talking about. Creighton is guilty as well for holding the football members down. The fans of these non-football schools bad mouth the football playing members which is not funny anymore. That is why Creighton should be in tier 2 in basketball. It would end all these headaches, and get rid of hybrids where basketball schools from blocking schools from joining.

Stony Brook as a full CAA member when Hofstra is regulated to a tier 2 D1 conference, and not in the CAA anymore.
The 4 Dakota State, Western Illinois and Youngstown State as full MVC members without the the non-basketball schools from interferring. Those non-football members in MVC should join the Summit League with like minded schools.

(02-04-2016 04:12 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The football members in the MVC are being hold back to have to spend the same amount on their department as the same with the non-football members.

What? Is there some sort of MVC rule that limits athletic budgets? And how does that bind the half of the MVFC members who are in the Summit League?

Or is that just delusional nonsense you made up?

You do know that the MVC and MVFC are separate, even though they have a lot of membership overlap, right?

Quote:That is why hybrid conferences should be outlaw. Break the basketball to Tier 1 and Tier 2. Big East goes to Tier 2 because they have different agendas than schools in the ACC, AAC and so forth.

Big East priorites are a lot more like SEC or Big Ten priorities than like CAA priorities. IF you line up votes on NCAA issues, you're likely to find Georgetown and Maryland on the same side, and Delaware and George Mason on the other.

(02-04-2016 04:05 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 04:19 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 03:33 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Plus schools like Wichita State, Milwaukee, UTA, Little Rock, and some others could add football to be part of this group. They will have a separate basketball tournament. This means schools like the Big East will lose their meal tickets because they will not be part of the big boys anymore.

Oh that's it. You clog every thread with pimping every two bit directional open admissions clown-and-barber college into FBS, and that's fine. I'd advise you to figure out a more social hobby, but it's your life.

But don't sit there and tell me that the big-money, high-attendance, large-fan-base programs of the Big East are riding the FBS schools for a "meal ticket". WE had those conversations, we had that debate and we went through that with the old Big East and "New Big East" football schools. And at the end of the day, our programs are getting TV revenue in line with the other "BCS Conference" basketball programs. (IF you take the conventional wisdom of a 75-25 FB/BB split, the P5 are all taking in $20M+. 25% of $20M is $5M, and we're getting $4M per school from Fox. Because, much like Penn STate and Texas TEch have long-established traditional fanbases whether anyone else likes it or not, so do we.)

Go start a thread about how the Seven Sisters should all jump to FBS and field teams of gender nonconformists and leave the Big East alone.

MVC is about to split apart as well as the football schools are not happy with the non-football schools. I heard the football schools rather wanted the Dakota schools, and not a sorry Illinois-Chicago team that does not help their RPI ratings.

Once again you confuse schools. Illinois-Chicago is not in the MVC. Loyola-Chicago is, and they finished 5th in the MVC, won the CBI last post-season, and had a rating that was close to the best Summit League team, and well ahead of the rest.

So your post is invalid.

Please don't give him attention.

(02-04-2016 04:43 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Please don't give him attention.

Yes. I need to do this, before I find myself arguing with him about whether Central State University should transition from D-II.

(02-04-2016 04:05 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 04:19 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 03:33 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Plus schools like Wichita State, Milwaukee, UTA, Little Rock, and some others could add football to be part of this group. They will have a separate basketball tournament. This means schools like the Big East will lose their meal tickets because they will not be part of the big boys anymore.

Oh that's it. You clog every thread with pimping every two bit directional open admissions clown-and-barber college into FBS, and that's fine. I'd advise you to figure out a more social hobby, but it's your life.

But don't sit there and tell me that the big-money, high-attendance, large-fan-base programs of the Big East are riding the FBS schools for a "meal ticket". WE had those conversations, we had that debate and we went through that with the old Big East and "New Big East" football schools. And at the end of the day, our programs are getting TV revenue in line with the other "BCS Conference" basketball programs. (IF you take the conventional wisdom of a 75-25 FB/BB split, the P5 are all taking in $20M+. 25% of $20M is $5M, and we're getting $4M per school from Fox. Because, much like Penn STate and Texas TEch have long-established traditional fanbases whether anyone else likes it or not, so do we.)

Go start a thread about how the Seven Sisters should all jump to FBS and field teams of gender nonconformists and leave the Big East alone.

It is well known that non-football schools have been holding down the football members for a long time by placing rules holding those conferences down. Your school is one of the best examples that it split the Big East apart. The Big East is not strong as it used to be without the likes of Pitt, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Miami, Virginia Tech, Syracuse and so forth.

MVC is about to split apart as well as the football schools are not happy with the non-football schools. I heard the football schools rather wanted the Dakota schools, and not a sorry Illinois-Chicago team that does not help their RPI ratings.

You know nothing about MVC.

(02-04-2016 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 02:01 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  I have no doubt President Bardo wants this. Many fans do too. If football returns, the goal is FBS as soon as possible. Wichita MIGHT be open to CUSA if we felt it would be a short term stay in order to build a solid FBS foundation and gain entrance into the AAC or MWC. Those two conferences are the goal with the AAC being favored.

Yes, we absolutely want more Texas exposure. All of our athletic teams recruit Texas as is, and we target Texas on the academic side as well.

First of all, good luck with football.

But one challenge that WSU might have is that the MWC and/or AAC might not be willing to take a startup FCS and the Belt, the MAC, and CUSA might not be willing to take a team that will only stay if they stink.

However, the promise of WSU basketball for a few years might provide some incentive to CUSA. And you would be in the WEST, which is where, if anywhere, CUSA needs teams.

CUSA....maybe. But the already have 14 teams and 3 newbie programs that are still struggling to qualify for their first bowl berth. And UAB is coming back and will probably need time to sort itself out. Adding another FCS to FBS team....might not be what they're looking for.

All of which is why I also believe WSU will find out exactly what the AAC and MWC think about future WSU football before moving. Not necessarily talking guarantees, but if there's positive thoughts about it and the potential of acceptance. Or what may be needed to reach that point. Bardo will do his due diligence.

And I think it's pretty common knowledge around the MVC that nobody wants the Dakotas.

If it turns out that none of the G5 are interested, do you think there's will at WSU to press on as a FCS program in the MVFC?

And yes, the private schools in the MVC want nothing to do with the Dakota schools. (not that the publics feel differently)

I think the Dakotas have a good thing going in the Summit. They basically own the playground.

(02-04-2016 05:19 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  And I think it's pretty common knowledge around the MVC that nobody wants the Dakotas.

North Dakota State and South Dakota State made the men's basketball tournament the past few years. North Dakota State knocked Oklahoma out of the 64 team second round tournament. Those 2 RPIs is much better than Loyola-Chicago, Evansville and others. Adding those 2 would help boast the MVC's RPI much better than what it is now.

(02-04-2016 05:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  If it turns out that none of the G5 are interested, do you think there's will at WSU to press on as a FCS program in the MVFC?

There seems to be the will for football probably even at FCS from the overwhelming response by the president's tweets.

I think however, the Sunbelt (and to the lesser extent CUSA) would be very interested in WSU...especially if it makes Missouri St. come along also.
But it seems that WSU at first wants either the MW or AAC to make the move to a different conference. Depends on what the reports will come back with. If FBS football in the Sunbelt or CUSA makes up for the downgrade in basketball, it may be worthwhile as the MVC without Creighton isn't the same conference...as it was a few years ago.

(02-04-2016 05:34 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 05:19 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  And I think it's pretty common knowledge around the MVC that nobody wants the Dakotas.

North Dakota State and South Dakota State made the men's basketball tournament the past few years. North Dakota State knocked Oklahoma out of the 64 team second round tournament. Those 2 RPIs is much better than Loyola-Chicago, Evansville and others. Adding those 2 would help boast the MVC's RPI much better than what it is now.

One more time: Last year's RPI's from Ken Pom:

87 South Dakota St. Sum
103 Evansville MVC
129 Loyola Chicago MVC
138 North Dakota St. Sum


Evansville won the CIT
Loyola won the CBI




Try facts for a change

I think the AAC would take them as non-football members. They could then play FCS football in the totally separate MVC Football league. I think that would work fine for them. Down the road, maybe they can be full members or go elsewhere to become FBS.

Add WSU non-football to balance out Navy football-only?

(02-04-2016 06:58 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Add WSU non-football to balance out Navy football-only?

So why would WSU add fb then?