Seems to me that most of the speculation about Cincinnati and UConn as Big 12 candidates is based on taking West Virginia off their island. What if West Virginia took themselves off that island? On the ACC board, I floated a scenario in which Florida State asked for, and got, a Notre Dame type deal from the ACC. In that scenario, the Mountaineers get a chance to rejoin their former Big East mates in a northern division of the ACC.

Would that change the Big 12's thinking about the attractiveness of eastern expansion candidates? Might they then consider adding BYU and Boise State as football only members?

Mind you, it's a long shot that the ACC would give such a deal to Florida State, and also a long shot that FSU would profit from it. I just wonder how strongly the Big 12 feels a need to placate West Virginia by expanding further eastward.

WVU fits the best with ACC, but the ACC isn't expanding.

It seems to me that the WVU on an island thing is just one factor. Boren and others strongly want a B12 network, which means they need to dramatically expand the geographic footprint of the conference. Boise and BYU football both have national appeal and BYU is not in a terrible local TV market, so it's possible that without WVU the B12 could see adding those two as worthwhile as a step towards the creation of a B12 network but I think its just as likely that they want to keep WVU, which has a presence in the DC Metro area, and expand into other strong TV markets in well populated parts of the country.

If FSU wanted to leave the ACC, it would've done so with Maryland. A handful of discontent FSU supporters posting on this forum doesn't mean the school is soliciting invitations elsewhere.

Neither school will ever "lose all P5 hope". It would just be the most recent road block in each university's quest to get back to the grown up's table.

The ACC was looking at UC and UL after UM bolted (UC had a very strong presentation off reports, and UConn was the third option IMO). So clearly the best of the lot are those two. With all the posturing, it's a no brainer. College athletics at the D-I level is almost professional at this point, at least in the Big 2 sports. There is enough revenue there from cable and TV to ease the burden on travel costs. It's ugly... frankly it's a joke as far as I'm concerned. But the moment the Big East collapsed, these programs should have known nothing was going to be the same regarding standards and the student/athlete. Do whatever you can to help the top kids turn pro without cheating. Get the kids that can't compete at that level competent degrees. UC and UConn have decent enough academic profiles to make that happen.

With BYU you become a three time zone conference. I don't see that flying. There have to be limits, even if it's just football only, but that shouldn't be what the Big 12 is looking for. You can backfill with BYU if OU/KU or UT leave worst case scenario. Even still I think they'd try to poach more schools from the AAC in that event.

(02-22-2016 01:48 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  The ACC was looking at UC and UL after UM bolted (UC had a very strong presentation off reports, and UConn was the third option IMO). So clearly the best of the lot are those two. With all the posturing, it's a no brainer. College athletics at the D-I level is almost professional at this point, at least in the Big 2 sports. There is enough revenue there from cable and TV to ease the burden on travel costs. It's ugly... frankly it's a joke as far as I'm concerned. But the moment the Big East collapsed, these programs should have known nothing was going to be the same regarding standards and the student/athlete. Do whatever you can to help the top kids turn pro without cheating. Get the kids that can't compete at that level competent degrees. UC and UConn have decent enough academic profiles to make that happen.

With BYU you become a three time zone conference. I don't see that flying. There have to be limits, even if it's just football only, but that shouldn't be what the Big 12 is looking for. You can backfill with BYU if OU/KU or UT leave worst case scenario. Even still I think they'd try to poach more schools from the AAC in that event.

When the Big East (circa 2005-2012) fell I made the point on the board of saying CFB could have cut the head off the snake of CR forever if they simply would have found a home for the schools left behind (UC, UConn and USF) and BYU. There would have been no such thing as the AAC. The schools in C-USA would still be in C-USA, Navy would still be an independent and Temple would never had left the MAC in 2011. There would have been no bellyaching about it because those schools would have simply accepted what they had known up to that time.

It would have been much simpler. As it stands now, if the Big 12 takes two schools there will still be a hand full of schools who have a strong argument they belong in a power conference.

(02-22-2016 01:12 PM)ken d Wrote:  Seems to me that most of the speculation about Cincinnati and UConn as Big 12 candidates is based on taking West Virginia off their island. What if West Virginia took themselves off that island? On the ACC board, I floated a scenario in which Florida State asked for, and got, a Notre Dame type deal from the ACC. In that scenario, the Mountaineers get a chance to rejoin their former Big East mates in a northern division of the ACC.

West Virginia is one of a handful of states that is losing population. And they are losing it faster than any of the other contracting states.

Throw in below average academics (compared to most P5 schools), and there are reasons why the SEC, ACC and Big 10 won't touch them.

West Virginia better hope the Big 12 stays together.

YES, it's funny if you think about it. When the Big12 invited TCU and WV, if they would have just invited Lou, Cincy at the same time, the Big East would have beeno down to UConn and USF. Then the ACC probably would have taken UConn when MD left.

At that point, the Big 12 probably should have taken USF and UCF to finish off the Big East.

Now in real time, the Big12 is thinking of taking Cincy and maybe Uconn. SIGH. OH well.

Why would the ACC want WVU with Pitt 50 miles up the road. If the ACC ever wanted to get to 16, with ND joining full time,
they could add Cincy or UConn. If the Big 12 does not do it first. I know there was a rub with UConn / BC.

Cincy or UConn would also be joining their old BE conference mates in this scenario and they are not under a GOR, WVU is.

(02-22-2016 02:02 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  It would have been much simpler. As it stands now, if the Big 12 takes two schools there will still be a hand full of schools who have a strong argument they belong in a power conference.

Not how it works. They may have an argument on paper. But the demand is not there, not yet. These other conferences seem to have their footing standing pat. The ACC might look to go 16 as will the B1G, and they will almost certainly look at the Big 12 if and when. All the Big 12 is doing is consolidating its position as the next tier behind the other P4. BYU and the AAC are clearly a peg below the Big 12. So those schools on the outside looking in are a full rung if not 1.5 rungs below P5 status. To me it looks like:

1. P4
2. Big 12
3. AAC/MWC
4. Remainder

So while there is not a huge difference between UC/UConn and say Memphis/Houston, that gap will only widen once the Big 12 expands the TV network and adds the CCG, assuming they are taking the schools I believe they will.

(02-22-2016 02:18 PM)goofus Wrote:  YES, it's funny if you think about it. When the Big12 invited TCU and WV, if they would have just invited Lou, Cincy at the same time, the Big East would have beeno down to UConn and USF. Then the ACC probably would have taken UConn when MD left.

At that point, the Big 12 probably should have taken USF and UCF to finish off the Big East.

Now in real time, the Big12 is thinking of taking Cincy and maybe Uconn. SIGH. OH well.

ACC will still be able to poach any one of those three if ND wants to go full time. It's their pick and all three of those schools would bolt no matter what the penalty is. Big 12 can back fill with Memphis, but that's largely a non-issue for the ACC. It technically works out the same way if the Big 12 go for both UC/UConn. The Florida schools were always on the outside looking in. If the Big 12 is going there, it's going for 14.

(02-22-2016 01:21 PM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  It seems to me that the WVU on an island thing is just one factor. Boren and others strongly want a B12 network, which means they need to dramatically expand the geographic footprint of the conference. Boise and BYU football both have national appeal and BYU is not in a terrible local TV market, so it's possible that without WVU the B12 could see adding those two as worthwhile as a step towards the creation of a B12 network but I think its just as likely that they want to keep WVU, which has a presence in the DC Metro area, and expand into other strong TV markets in well populated parts of the country.

The original premise, though, was that West Virginia left the Big 12 on its own. I know that some movers and shakers in the B12 have said they would prefer to expand eastward. But if WVU leaves, is there any reason why Cincy and/or UConn add as much value as Boise/BYU? They are still a two time zone conference. Just that the Eastern time zone isn't one of them.

From a fan interest perspective, if the B12 added Cincy/UConn they add (some of) the markets in two cities. If they add Boise/BYU they potentially garner interest from the entire Mountain Time Zone, plus some eyeballs across the country that don't care about northeastern football.

(02-22-2016 03:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 01:21 PM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  It seems to me that the WVU on an island thing is just one factor. Boren and others strongly want a B12 network, which means they need to dramatically expand the geographic footprint of the conference. Boise and BYU football both have national appeal and BYU is not in a terrible local TV market, so it's possible that without WVU the B12 could see adding those two as worthwhile as a step towards the creation of a B12 network but I think its just as likely that they want to keep WVU, which has a presence in the DC Metro area, and expand into other strong TV markets in well populated parts of the country.

The original premise, though, was that West Virginia left the Big 12 on its own. I know that some movers and shakers in the B12 have said they would prefer to expand eastward. But if WVU leaves, is there any reason why Cincy and/or UConn add as much value as Boise/BYU? They are still a two time zone conference. Just that the Eastern time zone isn't one of them.

From a fan interest perspective, if the B12 added Cincy/UConn they add (some of) the markets in two cities. If they add Boise/BYU they potentially garner interest from the entire Mountain Time Zone, plus some eyeballs across the country that don't care about northeastern football.

MCMurphy did a story not too long ago that if the Big 12 expanded they are going East. Eastern Time Zone more attractive.

(02-22-2016 03:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 01:21 PM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  It seems to me that the WVU on an island thing is just one factor. Boren and others strongly want a B12 network, which means they need to dramatically expand the geographic footprint of the conference. Boise and BYU football both have national appeal and BYU is not in a terrible local TV market, so it's possible that without WVU the B12 could see adding those two as worthwhile as a step towards the creation of a B12 network but I think its just as likely that they want to keep WVU, which has a presence in the DC Metro area, and expand into other strong TV markets in well populated parts of the country.

The original premise, though, was that West Virginia left the Big 12 on its own. I know that some movers and shakers in the B12 have said they would prefer to expand eastward. But if WVU leaves, is there any reason why Cincy and/or UConn add as much value as Boise/BYU? They are still a two time zone conference. Just that the Eastern time zone isn't one of them.

From a fan interest perspective, if the B12 added Cincy/UConn they add (some of) the markets in two cities. If they add Boise/BYU they potentially garner interest from the entire Mountain Time Zone, plus some eyeballs across the country that don't care about northeastern football.

This is a hilarious point of view and seriously sounds like an ACC fan worried about another conference encroaching in what the ACC fans like to claim as their own territory.

Why take the #30 and #36 DMAs when you can have the #34 and #107 instead?

No offense to our mountain west friends but the key to increased TV revenue is not the Mountain Time Zone. It's that one in the other direction that UC and UConn happen to be located in.

(02-22-2016 01:12 PM)ken d Wrote:  Seems to me that most of the speculation about Cincinnati and UConn as Big 12 candidates is based on taking West Virginia off their island. What if West Virginia took themselves off that island? On the ACC board, I floated a scenario in which Florida State asked for, and got, a Notre Dame type deal from the ACC. In that scenario, the Mountaineers get a chance to rejoin their former Big East mates in a northern division of the ACC.

Would that change the Big 12's thinking about the attractiveness of eastern expansion candidates? Might they then consider adding BYU and Boise State as football only members?

Mind you, it's a long shot that the ACC would give such a deal to Florida State, and also a long shot that FSU would profit from it. I just wonder how strongly the Big 12 feels a need to placate West Virginia by expanding further eastward.

Florida State isn't Notre Dame. Florida State would not be able to negotiate that type of deal.

Additionally, West Virginia is a small state. While graduates may fill up areas with greater population, a school like Temple or Connecticut may offer more to the conference. It is unlikely that West Virginia will be able to join the ACC.

The only school that may be able to negotiate a Notre Dame like deal with the ACC is Texas.

UT Bball doesn't bring a whole lot to the table. It's a market, but how much of that TV revenue (from football) would UT want to share with the rest of the ACC?

(02-22-2016 03:44 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  UT Bball doesn't bring a whole lot to the table. It's a market, but how much of that TV revenue (from football) would UT want to share with the rest of the ACC?

Texas, the state, has almost 30 million residents. Texas, like Notre Dame, is one of the few programs that commands attention. That is one of the reasons Texas, the university, has their own network. It may be the most powerful program in the nation.

(02-22-2016 03:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 01:21 PM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  It seems to me that the WVU on an island thing is just one factor. Boren and others strongly want a B12 network, which means they need to dramatically expand the geographic footprint of the conference. Boise and BYU football both have national appeal and BYU is not in a terrible local TV market, so it's possible that without WVU the B12 could see adding those two as worthwhile as a step towards the creation of a B12 network but I think its just as likely that they want to keep WVU, which has a presence in the DC Metro area, and expand into other strong TV markets in well populated parts of the country.

The original premise, though, was that West Virginia left the Big 12 on its own. I know that some movers and shakers in the B12 have said they would prefer to expand eastward. But if WVU leaves, is there any reason why Cincy and/or UConn add as much value as Boise/BYU? They are still a two time zone conference. Just that the Eastern time zone isn't one of them.

From a fan interest perspective, if the B12 added Cincy/UConn they add (some of) the markets in two cities. If they add Boise/BYU they potentially garner interest from the entire Mountain Time Zone, plus some eyeballs across the country that don't care about northeastern football.

Well, it's actually more like they get the total home markets of Harford and Cincy for each school and portions of the adjacent markets, in the case of UConn, NYC the number 1 market in the country. Also, keep in mind that for a conference network, attractive tier 3 content is key. Football will be on ESPN or Fox, but who brings the most value in basketball and other sports? People in the NYC DMA watch a fair amount of UConn hoops. It's just a fact.

(02-22-2016 04:04 PM)chess Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 03:44 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  UT Bball doesn't bring a whole lot to the table. It's a market, but how much of that TV revenue (from football) would UT want to share with the rest of the ACC?

Texas, the state, has almost 30 million residents. Texas, like Notre Dame, is one of the few programs that commands attention. That is one of the reasons Texas, the university, has their own network. It may be the most powerful program in the nation.

The point is they would have rights to their own games if any deal came to fruition, at least the home games. UT Football would never be televised on the ACC network, even the bad games.

(02-22-2016 04:46 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 04:04 PM)chess Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 03:44 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  UT Bball doesn't bring a whole lot to the table. It's a market, but how much of that TV revenue (from football) would UT want to share with the rest of the ACC?

Texas, the state, has almost 30 million residents. Texas, like Notre Dame, is one of the few programs that commands attention. That is one of the reasons Texas, the university, has their own network. It may be the most powerful program in the nation.

The point is they would have rights to their own games if any deal came to fruition, at least the home games. UT Football would never be televised on the ACC network, even the bad games.

I don't understand your point.

Who is "they"?

Concerning football- The home team determines the network that broadcasts the game. Notre Dame home football games are distributed by NBC. I don't think there has been any issues.

ESPN owns the Longhorn Network and the ACC Network. I am sure they can figure things out on this speculated thread.