This is the best I could find so far Hambone. I am going to continue though. Someone was saying they have a plan and we will see it after the election. By this thread you have and were consistent in your thoughts. You said it would be how much they have to negotiate. I was wrong to single you out at least according to this thread. I still don't think I lied. Someone said it would be politically suicide to show your hand now but we would see the plan after the election. By all the horse trading we can see I was right. Just need to find the thread.

(05-06-2016 03:10 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-05-2016 05:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  But no matter how hard they tried to shoot holes in it, democrats would be left arguing against the generally accepted best systems in the world. There's a tangible comparable, and it acquits itself very nicely.

That hasn't hurt anyone so far. It certainly hasn't hurt them arguing against VAT.
Don't get me wrong... you know I agree with you... I just disagree on the best way to accomplish it. Being straightforward doesn't sell well to the average voter.

I don't think the target would be the low-information, give-me-a-handout voter. But I'm not at all convinced that you couldn't reach them. I really think that somebody needs to do more things like Ross Perot's PowerPoints. It's funny, looking at videos of him that have gone viral, just how primitive those were. But you can explain a lot to low-information voters with pictures.

(03-07-2017 02:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I don't think the target would be the low-information, give-me-a-handout voter. But I'm not at all convinced that you couldn't reach them. I really think that somebody needs to do more things like Ross Perot's PowerPoints. It's funny, looking at videos of him that have gone viral, just how primitive those were. But you can explain a lot to low-information voters with pictures.

Except that when it comes to healthcare, that IS the audience.

If you want to pass VAT, you CAN'T pass it as part of 'healthcare reform'. I don't care if the money for healthcare reform ostensibly comes from a VAT... they are two different pitches and only one opponent who will conflate the issues.

The ACA taxes the healthy not the wealthy. You can repeal this because THIS group... mostly young and healthy and center to left will 'buy' this idea.

The left would argue that VAT to pay for healthcare does exactly the same thing.

I know they're wrong, but it's a complicated answer.

If you break the argument up into two distinct issues... that 'the government' will pay for healthcare for the poor and the 'healthy' can opt for far less coverage...

and THEN that a VAT with a prefund is better for the poor and middle class in terms of funding the government.... I think you have a chance at both.

I also don't think that VAT should be designed merely to cover healthcare costs.