Fill me in on how good or bad of a job is Purdue football head coach.

(05-20-2016 06:10 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  Fill me in on how good or bad of a job is Purdue football head coach.

Such a loaded question that you already know the answer to. First off a little history. The main driver for the Western conference in the 1890s was the president of Purdue, can't remember his name but, look it up, it's there. So as not only a founding member but arguably the most important founder... Purdue is owed a debt of gratitude.
Now that that's out of the way... Purdue friggin sucks. They are IMO the least valuable of all B1G schools followed closely by Northwestern. They have money to spend (which B1G school doesn't, right? But they don't invest like the should.

But down to your question. In the state of Indiana the pecking order is historically 1. Notre Dame, 2 Purdue, 3. Indiana. The gap between 1 & 2 is faaaaaaaaar larger than from 2 to 3. What kicks Indiana above as an institution as far as athletics go os the 5 National Championships in hoops. So the real pecking order is ND, Indiana, then a distant third Purdue.

Purdue rests on their laurels knowing we won't do what the Big East did to Temple. Quick, name a sport that Purdue is elite in... I'll wait. Still waiting. OK so they are elite at nothing. Very mediocre at everything and the ONLY reason they are in the B1G is because they are one of the 6 remaining of the original 7 founders of the Western Conference.

All that being said it is not out of the question that they can jump up and bite you every now and then. Joe Tiller had a nice run but what I feel is that they lack true institutional support. Indiana in not loaded with talent and comptition in Chicago os fierce. If they ever got a good coach do you not think that another school would pluck them away and purdue wouldn't fight to keep them? Purdue needs a Tennessee like recruiting budget and some some high profile wins. And be willing to commit resources to staff and facilities like one of the Big boys. They are in the West which is deep but not top heavy like the East so they can improve in conference.
So Id give the job a 5/10 (they are Colorado State without B1G membership though.
If the administration commits... 7/10.

Thank you for answering. Since the Big 10 and SEC have so much money I was wondering why Purdue couldn't compete in the West.

Do they fill their stadium? How are their facilities? Are their academic standards a HUGE deterrent?

(05-20-2016 10:02 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  Thank you for answering. Since the Big 10 and SEC have so much money I was wondering why Purdue couldn't compete in the West.

Do they fill their stadium? How are their facilities? Are their academic standards a HUGE deterrent?

Not since Drew Brees have they consistently filled up the stadium, but the problem has been more acute lately because the progam has been so bad for so long. Nobody wants to show up knowing their team will get their brains beaten in.

Facilities are okay but not spectacular. Purdue has great bean counters. One of the few programs that consistently bring in more money than they spend in college athletics. But they do that by being cheap. Their longtime AD just retired so maybe there will be some change but usually it's more than just the AD. They really need institutional support that DEMANDS winning at the highest level. They need positive pressure but right now i sense apathy.

No reason they can't compete in the West.

Academics are tough be so are academics at a lot of schools. I dont think they are unreasonable (like SMU after the death penalty). I think their major problem is a lack of local talent, not unlike the rest of the B1G West not named Illinois. Again they need to really crank up the recruiting budget and recruiting support staff. Look at what Chris Ash is doing at Rutgers. I'm biased of course with him being a Buckeye assistant and wanting him to be successful, but all reports are that the Iowa boy is doing a FANTASTIC job recruiting Jersey. But he's added support staff similar to that available at Arkansas and Ohio State to be successful. Granted Jersey is loaded and Indiana is not but the point is the commitment of the institution to pay for these new positions.
I say go further. Look at all of the creative ideas around the country and bring them to West Lafayette. It'll take a little time and some money, but anything is better than the mediocrity that they've had for most of their history save a few under Joe Tiller.

I've been a proponent of Purdue just dropping out of the B1G along with Northwestern because they just seem content being sucky. And furthermore we already have the state namesake for both of those states. I'd rather have any number of schools over those two, and they could still be associated with the CIC like Chicago who dropped out in the 1940s. Hell Northwestern even considered dropping out of the B1G in the 80s / 90s because they were so horrible. But I now place Purdue behind Northwestern because they are at least trying.
Money isn't everything. The richest school doesn't always win. Leadership and the human capital you have is just as important if not more so. Purdue can't do anything about geography but they can pony up to get better in the human capital department.

Is Purdue a "good" coaching job? You'll have to define "good". I'm sure it would be better than most G5 schools as Purdue will have more money to spend, have better facilities, have a better TV opportunities, more exposure, etc. Purdue isn't a destination job for a non-alumnus or local guy. They don't have the history of success which can be huge for a program and there is little expectations which is both a blessing and a curse.

As Big Ron Buckeye said, there isn't much local talent because everyone grows up watching Hoosiers and wanting to play basketball. I think for a coach to succeed, he'd have to be very player-friendly while running those unorthodox offenses like an air raid hurry up offense that can put up points with less talent around. Give them the Oregon offense, the California offense, the Baylor offense, TCU offense, and see what happens. They need something to differentiate themselves from being the generic Big Ten school that ground and pounds.

Purdue above IU in the state? Really?

Let's just say there are a good amount of IU basketball who are also ND football fans in the state. And with ND, it's just FOOTBALL. Really, it's not much different than the rest of the country.

Not many in the state care about ND basketball or anything else. Remember, the state is only 18% Catholic, and well over 60% Protestant. ND very much has a pretentious reputation to a good amount of people. You'll find a much stronger ND fan base in Boston, Chicago and NYC. They draw 80K a game for football, but they do pull fans from Illinois and Michigan, not just Indiana.

If you want to put ND as #1 for football, no argument there. But everything else considered (basketball, political influence, alumni base, statewide education, medical hospital system), the state's heart is very much IU.

Just look at the Crossroads Classic, it's a home game for IU whenever they play ND (they don't play Purdue in the Classic).

If basketball is factored in does Butler jump into the top 3? They are now in the Big east and had a few championship game appearances.

(05-25-2016 03:34 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  If basketball is factored in does Butler jump into the top 3? They are now in the Big east and had a few championship game appearances.

My perception of Butler is it's seen very fondly by the Indianapolis area. Hinkle is a national landmark, and Butler's basketball tradition very much embodies Indiana's love of basketball. Even before Stevens you have a history of winning and doing things the "Butler way".

You'll have a lot of people who will cheer for Butler if they are not playing IU. So in addition to their core fan base, you get a lot of passive fans in Indy who will see a game here or there. The school itself has good academics and an alumni base that is very active in Butler basketball and giving back to the school. That said, it's a small private school so it's hard to get a large fan base.

Btw you're crazy if you advocate NW dropping out of the B1G. What Coach Fitz has done in football is downright magnificent. They are a legit threat to win the West annually. In 2012 they nearly went undefeated as they lost close three games where they were winning in the fourth quarter in each game. Went 10-3 again last year.

NW is investing $100M+ in a gorgeous lakeside practice facility, as part of a $250M campus wide investment in athletic facilities.

Sure, they suck at basketball but they have an elite women's lacrosse program, with good wrestling, golf and softball teams. Very well rounded school.

NW is to the B1G what Stanford/Vandy is to the Pac12/SEC. These schools have a national student body and sports recruiting base. Wealthy alumni who donate.

(05-25-2016 04:18 PM)akhosrof Wrote:  Btw you're crazy if you advocate NW dropping out of the B1G. What Coach Fitz has done in football is downright magnificent. They are a legit threat to win the West annually. In 2012 they nearly went undefeated as they lost close three games where they were winning in the fourth quarter in each game. Went 10-3 again last year.

NW is investing $100M+ in a gorgeous lakeside practice facility, as part of a $250M campus wide investment in athletic facilities.

Sure, they suck at basketball but they have an elite women's lacrosse program, with good wrestling, golf and softball teams. Very well rounded school.

NW is to the B1G what Stanford/Vandy is to the Pac12/SEC. These schools have a national student body and sports recruiting base. Wealthy alumni who donate.

I don't agree with the Stanford comparison. Stanford is a beast in just about every sport they sponsor. Northwestern has never even qualified for the NCAA Tournament. They are not close to Stanford in football on a consistency basis. I think Vanderbilt and Wake Forest are closer comps in the land of conference real estate.

(05-25-2016 09:50 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(05-25-2016 04:18 PM)akhosrof Wrote:  Btw you're crazy if you advocate NW dropping out of the B1G. What Coach Fitz has done in football is downright magnificent. They are a legit threat to win the West annually. In 2012 they nearly went undefeated as they lost close three games where they were winning in the fourth quarter in each game. Went 10-3 again last year.

NW is investing $100M+ in a gorgeous lakeside practice facility, as part of a $250M campus wide investment in athletic facilities.

Sure, they suck at basketball but they have an elite women's lacrosse program, with good wrestling, golf and softball teams. Very well rounded school.

NW is to the B1G what Stanford/Vandy is to the Pac12/SEC. These schools have a national student body and sports recruiting base. Wealthy alumni who donate.

I don't agree with the Stanford comparison. Stanford is a beast in just about every sport they sponsor. Northwestern has never even qualified for the NCAA Tournament. They are not close to Stanford in football on a consistency basis. I think Vanderbilt and Wake Forest are closer comps in the land of conference real estate.

You neglected to address NW's success in football and its other varsity sports except basketball. You also neglected to address the capital investments they are making. Overall NW's women's programs are among the best in the nation.

Maybe Vanderbilt is a better comparison, but both NW and Vandy are leagues ahead of Wake. Vandy does quite well in the Capital One Cup year in and year out.

NW is a valuable asset to the B1G.

While I'd take Northwestern over Purdue because of a nice trip to Chicago. I think we woulsnt miss either of them. A better way to think about it is like this... If we were forming the B1G today who would get an invite. I don't think either of them would.

(05-26-2016 04:55 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  While I'd take Northwestern over Purdue because of a nice trip to Chicago. I think we woulsnt miss either of them. A better way to think about it is like this... If we were forming the B1G today who would get an invite. I don't think either of them would.

Even with your hypothetical question I still disagree with you and would take NW. As a Hoosier I agree with you on Purdue

Answering the original question of the post and how good of a job Purdue is: if we are rating Big Ten college towns, West Lafayette is probably near the bottom next to College Park and New Brunswick. Those two locations would probably get the edge due to close proximity to DC and NYC, respectively.

Right off the bat Purdue has location working against them. They can't bring in recruits and show off a pretty college town or a campus of pretty girls like other B1G schools can. At least they are not in a remote area of the country like Aimes, IA or Pullman, WA.

I echo a lot of the points made by Ron, especially considering recruiting competition and institutional commitment. The school recently announced a $60M expansion to its football practice facility, which will be nice for the next coach.

http://www.jconline.com/story/sports/col.../74320512/

Speaking of coaching salaries, they made a bold move by paying Hazell $2.14M annually. It has simply worked out terribly.

IMO Tiller laid out the plan for success at Purdue. He was very well respected, was a good teacher, and no player was above the team. He won a B1G title and went to a Rose bowl, and his teams were always well coached and a threat to win 8-9 games. The B1G West is weak, so there is opportunity for Purdue.

Purdue needs an older, experienced coach with legit P5 experience to be the face of the program and establish an identity, like Tiller did. Times have changed, Tiller was able to recruit Texas. Texas is so much more competitive now than it was a decade ago, but Purdue can leverage its strong academics (especially engineering) to get smart 3 star kids from the east or west coasts who fit a system. So they need a coach that can bring in the right system.

The job itself is probably comparable to Iowa State or Washington State. Which is why they need to hire an older coach who is looking to end his career with his next job. Otherwise a younger guy will bolt first opportunity. Purdue has a great opportunity to compete in the B1G West and annually play in Bowl games, which gives it an edge over ISU or WSU, IMO. If Purdue was in the B1G East, I'd say the job would be hopeless.

I think each school brings positives and negatives. Northwestern has been an upstanding member of the conference for such a long time that I don't see any reason to voluntarily expel them.

Now if the Big Ten HAD to get rid of schools, then my guess is either one of the newest members or a school that overlaps the market of a better school. In that case, Purdue and Northwestern could be in trouble. Michigan State has a strong enough brand to be safe.

(05-26-2016 06:31 PM)akhosrof Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 04:55 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  While I'd take Northwestern over Purdue because of a nice trip to Chicago. I think we woulsnt miss either of them. A better way to think about it is like this... If we were forming the B1G today who would get an invite. I don't think either of them would.

Even with your hypothetical question I still disagree with you and would take NW. As a Hoosier I agree with you on Purdue

Answering the original question of the post and how good of a job Purdue is: if we are rating Big Ten college towns, West Lafayette is probably near the bottom next to College Park and New Brunswick. Those two locations would probably get the edge due to close proximity to DC and NYC, respectively.

Right off the bat Purdue has location working against them. They can't bring in recruits and show off a pretty college town or a campus of pretty girls like other B1G schools can. At least they are not in a remote area of the country like Aimes, IA or Pullman, WA.

I echo a lot of the points made by Ron, especially considering recruiting competition and institutional commitment. The school recently announced a $60M expansion to its football practice facility, which will be nice for the next coach.

http://www.jconline.com/story/sports/col.../74320512/

Speaking of coaching salaries, they made a bold move by paying Hazell $2.14M annually. It has simply worked out terribly.

IMO Tiller laid out the plan for success at Purdue. He was very well respected, was a good teacher, and no player was above the team. He won a B1G title and went to a Rose bowl, and his teams were always well coached and a threat to win 8-9 games. The B1G West is weak, so there is opportunity for Purdue.

Purdue needs an older, experienced coach with legit P5 experience to be the face of the program and establish an identity, like Tiller did. Times have changed, Tiller was able to recruit Texas. Texas is so much more competitive now than it was a decade ago, but Purdue can leverage its strong academics (especially engineering) to get smart 3 star kids from the east or west coasts who fit a system. So they need a coach that can bring in the right system.

The job itself is probably comparable to Iowa State or Washington State. Which is why they need to hire an older coach who is looking to end his career with his next job. Otherwise a younger guy will bolt first opportunity. Purdue has a great opportunity to compete in the B1G West and annually play in Bowl games, which gives it an edge over ISU or WSU, IMO. If Purdue was in the B1G East, I'd say the job would be hopeless.

Why was Tiller able to successfully recruit Texas?

Different time. Technology wasn't where it is today, more unturned stones. Coaches didn't have the time to go searching for prospects if they didn't have a good lead or relationships. The SEC hadn't encroached upon Texas like it has today. Now in Texas every southern school is in the state and there are very few under the radar guys left.

Tiller had good connections and mutual trust with coaches in Texas. It allowed him to get guys other schools passed up. His strength was in developing players so that was part of it. Tiller was also an early innovator of the spread offense which was attractive and easier for young players to contribute right away. Now everyone runs a spread.

In fact, many Purdue fans were unhappy that Danny Hope wasn't fired earlier and they didn't go after Purdue alum Kevin Sumlin, who was doing well at Houston at the time and could have kept up Tiller's Texas pipeline. IMO the reason Purdue has hung onto Hazell for this long is they are hoping Sumlin gets fired from A&M and they can bring him home.