(06-09-2016 10:50 AM)Ragu Wrote:  Fsu and Clemson should be let out of the grant of rights if this happens. Because it's not the setup they signed up for

...so they can join another conference that plays a 9-game schedule? (e.g. Big Ten or Big XII). I know you don't want this - neither do I - but the only logical thing to do is figure out a way to make it work. FSU needs to get Miami AND Ga Tech every year, and ESPN needs to both increase the tier 1 rights fees AND give the ACC 50% of the network profits. Oh, and if the ACC has to buy back the Raycom and FoxSports games to put them on the network, there also needs to be a guarantee of at least ONE OTA game on ABC every week!

(06-09-2016 11:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  If the ACC moves to 9 conference games, there is no clearer signal that the conference knows it is never going to get ND to join for football under the current set of circumstances.

FIFY. There are still circumstances under which ND would join for football - this doesn't really affect that one way or the other.

(06-09-2016 10:43 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  Does any school in the ACC not already consistently play at least one P5 OOC game a year?

*Aside from NCSU.

For the record, between 2016 and 2028, the only year in which State does not yet have a P5 opponent scheduled OOC is 2024. They have three open dates to fill that year.

Quote:FIFY. There are still circumstances under which ND would join for football - this doesn't really affect that one way or the other.

It affects it greatly, 8 games is a lot more easier (Still very difficult) of a sell them a 9 game commitment (Good luck selling that, won't happen). The fight in ndnation would turn ugly and the admin would absolutely not want to take on that fight.

As I said on the other board. If this happens in The ACC and finally in The SEC I see a movement to 13 regular season games. Along with some type of uniform schedule from the end of August through the end of November.
CJ

(06-09-2016 11:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  If the ACC moves to 9 conference games, there is no clearer signal that the conference knows it is never going to get ND to join for football.

not so fast ...
according to nd's AD who should know ...
usc, standford, navy ...
those 3 ...

PROTECTED SPECIES

(06-09-2016 11:30 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 10:50 AM)Ragu Wrote:  Fsu and Clemson should be let out of the grant of rights if this happens. Because it's not the setup they signed up for

...so they can join another conference that plays a 9-game schedule? (e.g. Big Ten or Big XII). I know you don't want this - neither do I - but the only logical thing to do is figure out a way to make it work. FSU needs to get Miami AND Ga Tech every year, and ESPN needs to both increase the tier 1 rights fees AND give the ACC 50% of the network profits. Oh, and if the ACC has to buy back the Raycom and FoxSports games to put them on the network, there also needs to be a guarantee of at least ONE OTA game on ABC every week!

(06-09-2016 11:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  If the ACC moves to 9 conference games, there is no clearer signal that the conference knows it is never going to get ND to join for football under the current set of circumstances.

FIFY. There are still circumstances under which ND would join for football - this doesn't really affect that one way or the other.

No, the only "circumstance" is legislation that only a conference champ is playoff eligible.

That is the only reason that ND football would join the ACC, or any conference.

This tells me that the ACC knows that such a "circumstance" is extremely unlikely and that the ACC knows that it will likely never get ND football to join.

That if fine and healthy for both sides. The ACC can plan its schedules and the network without the improbable hope of ND football hanging there.

I am glad. Now, both sides and move on and decide if they want to re-up the deal in 2027 or part ways, without this ACC fan certainty/hunch/hope that ND football will ever be part of the deal.

(06-09-2016 11:38 AM)green Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  If the ACC moves to 9 conference games, there is no clearer signal that the conference knows it is never going to get ND to join for football.

not so fast ...
according to nd's AD who should know ...
usc, standford, navy ...
those 3 ...

PROTECTED SPECIES

I know very little, almost nothing, about Miami's fanbase, its plans, it goals.

You know less than that about ND's fanbase, its plans and its goals.

STAY ON YOUR SIDE OF THE AISLE

(06-09-2016 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 07:41 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-08-2016 11:01 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If the goal is more quality inventory, I'd MUCH prefer this:
- 8 conference games + 2 required P5 OOC games
- 1 can be against another ACC team if desired, but it won't count in conference standings.

That way teams who want to play 9 ACC teams + 1 OOC can do it,
and teams that want 8 ACC + 2 true OOC games can do that.

Either way, ESPN gets plent of quality games this way.

Looking at FBS Scheduling for GT anyways...the 9 game ACC is a good thing and the three NON would be

FCS (always a home game)
ND or G5/P5 home and home series
UGA

So a 9 game ACC schedule really would be a good thing..

As is nearly always the case, what one school considers a good thing, another may consider a bad thing. From what I have seen on this forum, I would imagine that Clemson would be strongly against a nine game league schedule. They might be so strongly opposed that it could tip them in favor of leaving the conference.

Unfortunately for them, the very people who they would want to support such a move have a vested interest in preventing it. The same goes for FSU to a degree.

So the question is: How desirable is it for the ACC to have two of its strongest football programs held hostage by ESPN? That can't be healthy. IMO, a situation like that would almost demand that the league find some way to accommodate their legitimate scheduling concerns in some way. Perhaps one way that could be done is to guarantee that they each play Notre Dame more often than other members (assuming Notre Dame would be willing to do that).

If Notre Dame played each of them every year, one at home, the other away, then the other 12 members would get the Irish once every four years instead of once every three. That doesn't seem to be too great a sacrifice to me. But then, I'm not the one being asked to sacrifice.

A question I would have is whether either FSU or Clemson would accept ND as an annual opponent, knowing that their other commitments (Florida and South Carolina, plus Clemson's commitment to an instate FCS game) would limit their options for more regional opponents, like Georgia or Auburn.

I suspect a nine game league schedule will be a tough sell unless the NCAA allows a pre-season unofficial tune-up against an FCS team in addition to 12 regular season games.

You bring up a good point about Clemson and FSU. For them though if ESPN wants 9 conf games they will get it.

Now what may make this not so critical is that the home games of ACC teams could be on the ACC Network. For example next years Auburn at Clemson is possible inventory.

A compromise might be more home and home games with power 5 teams.

It's not like any other conference is playing fewer than 9 either except the SEC.

(06-09-2016 11:48 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:38 AM)green Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  If the ACC moves to 9 conference games, there is no clearer signal that the conference knows it is never going to get ND to join for football.

not so fast ...
according to nd's AD who should know ...
usc, standford, navy ...
those 3 ...

PROTECTED SPECIES

I know very little, almost nothing, about Miami's fanbase, its plans, it goals.

You know less than that about ND's fanbase, its plans and its goals.

STAY ON YOUR SIDE OF THE AISLE

agree to disagree ...

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH

(06-09-2016 11:53 AM)green Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:48 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:38 AM)green Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  If the ACC moves to 9 conference games, there is no clearer signal that the conference knows it is never going to get ND to join for football.

not so fast ...
according to nd's AD who should know ...
usc, standford, navy ...
those 3 ...

PROTECTED SPECIES

I know very little, almost nothing, about Miami's fanbase, its plans, it goals.

You know less than that about ND's fanbase, its plans and its goals.

STAY ON YOUR SIDE OF THE AISLE

agree to disagree ...

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH

That leaves no room for the Shamrock Series games, for games against SEC foes (like Georgia already scheduled), Big 12 schools like Texas and Oklahoma (already scheduled) or for games against Michigan State and Ohio State (already scheduled).

PAUL HARVEY

(06-09-2016 10:45 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 10:43 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  Does any school in the ACC not already consistently play at least one P5 OOC game a year?

*Aside from NCSU.

Boston College.

That would be funny if true. Since FSU joined the conference in 1992 NC State has played the following in OOC play:

92 - Iowa/Virginia Tech (added to the ACC schedules in 2004)
93 - Purdue/Texas Tech
94 - Louisville (added to the ACC schedules in 2014)
95 - Baylor/Alabama
96 - Purdue/Alabama
97 - Syracuse (added to the ACC schedules in 2013)
98 - Baylor/Syracuse
99 - Texas/Syracuse
00 - Indiana
01 - Indiana
02 - Texas Tech
03 - Ohio State/Texas Tech/UConn
04 - Ohio State
05 - None
06 - None
07 - Louisville (See Above)/UCF
08 - South Carolina/Pitt (added to the ACC schedules in 2013)
09 - South Carolina/Pitt
10 - UCF/Cincy
11 - Cincy
12 - Tennessee/UConn
13 - None
14 - USF
15 - None

When these articles are written about playing OOC P-5's, the fact that VT, Syracuse, Pitt, and Louisville were added to the ACC is omitted. Furthermore, when UConn, USF, UCF, and Cincy were scheduled they were part of the P-6 - that little thing call the Big East.

Due to conference expansion and other skullduggery Tennessee backed out of a home and away for 11 and 13, the league office botched a home and away with ND that would have been around 13-15. Oklahoma State backed out of a home and away for 14 and 15 and LSU backed out of a home and away for 16 and 20.

Given that the program had been run into the ground by 2012, who are you going to call to fill those spots? Not top 35 OOC squads.

We have the following going forward:

16 - Notre Dame
17 - South Carolina/Notre Dame
18 - West Virginia
19 - West Virginia
20 - Mississippi State
21 - Mississippi State
22 - Texas Tech/UConn
23 - Notre Dame/UConn
24 - None
25 - Notre Dame
26 - Vandy
27 - Texas Tech
28 - Vandy

What the **** more do people want for an average football program operating in the most densely packed and over saturated part of the country?

Finally, NC State has to play perhaps the toughest G-5 rivalry game in the nation at least every three or so years. That's East Carolina - the most consistently dangerous G-5 outside Boise State if you are a P-5 in North Carolina, Virginia, SC, or Florida. Upsets are what they do - and because they don't get the media attention and respect they deserve - it's an upset even when they have the far better team.

We played them 96, 97, 98, 04, 06, 08, 10, 13, and will again in 16, 19, and 22. We will have to schedule them beyond that date as well because if we do not, there is political hell to pay in the North Carolina General Assembly and with the UNC Board of Governors and among our own Board of Trustees all of whom are inter-populated with ECU alums within the same families.

It's true that NC State doesn't consistently play one P-5 OOC a year. They play one and a half.

And as far as the conference going to 9 games - the league office can go **** itself. They have screwed State twice in the past 6 years over this scheduling business and they can absolutely rot in the depths of Hell in the sewer system of Dis. State College will not change a damn thing for them without compensation in hand and up front.

(06-09-2016 11:56 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:53 AM)green Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:48 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:38 AM)green Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  If the ACC moves to 9 conference games, there is no clearer signal that the conference knows it is never going to get ND to join for football.

not so fast ...
according to nd's AD who should know ...
usc, standford, navy ...
those 3 ...

PROTECTED SPECIES

I know very little, almost nothing, about Miami's fanbase, its plans, it goals.

You know less than that about ND's fanbase, its plans and its goals.

STAY ON YOUR SIDE OF THE AISLE

agree to disagree ...

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH

That leaves no room for the Shamrock Series games, for games against SEC foes (like Georgia already scheduled) or for games against Michigan State and Ohio State (already scheduled).

PAUL HARVEY

that's your problem not mine ...

WHAT GIVES

(06-09-2016 11:52 AM)GTTiger Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 07:41 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-08-2016 11:01 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If the goal is more quality inventory, I'd MUCH prefer this:
- 8 conference games + 2 required P5 OOC games
- 1 can be against another ACC team if desired, but it won't count in conference standings.

That way teams who want to play 9 ACC teams + 1 OOC can do it,
and teams that want 8 ACC + 2 true OOC games can do that.

Either way, ESPN gets plent of quality games this way.

Looking at FBS Scheduling for GT anyways...the 9 game ACC is a good thing and the three NON would be

FCS (always a home game)
ND or G5/P5 home and home series
UGA

So a 9 game ACC schedule really would be a good thing..

As is nearly always the case, what one school considers a good thing, another may consider a bad thing. From what I have seen on this forum, I would imagine that Clemson would be strongly against a nine game league schedule. They might be so strongly opposed that it could tip them in favor of leaving the conference.

Unfortunately for them, the very people who they would want to support such a move have a vested interest in preventing it. The same goes for FSU to a degree.

So the question is: How desirable is it for the ACC to have two of its strongest football programs held hostage by ESPN? That can't be healthy. IMO, a situation like that would almost demand that the league find some way to accommodate their legitimate scheduling concerns in some way. Perhaps one way that could be done is to guarantee that they each play Notre Dame more often than other members (assuming Notre Dame would be willing to do that).

If Notre Dame played each of them every year, one at home, the other away, then the other 12 members would get the Irish once every four years instead of once every three. That doesn't seem to be too great a sacrifice to me. But then, I'm not the one being asked to sacrifice.

A question I would have is whether either FSU or Clemson would accept ND as an annual opponent, knowing that their other commitments (Florida and South Carolina, plus Clemson's commitment to an instate FCS game) would limit their options for more regional opponents, like Georgia or Auburn.

I suspect a nine game league schedule will be a tough sell unless the NCAA allows a pre-season unofficial tune-up against an FCS team in addition to 12 regular season games.

You bring up a good point about Clemson and FSU. For them though if ESPN wants 9 conf games they will get it.

Now what may make this not so critical is that the home games of ACC teams could be on the ACC Network. For example next years Auburn at Clemson is possible inventory.

A compromise might be more home and home games with power 5 teams.

It's not like any other conference is playing fewer than 9 either except the SEC.

I doubt that a Clemson-Auburn game would be relegated to an ACCN. It would be too valuable to limit distribution when it would command a large audience either OTA or on ESPN.

(06-09-2016 12:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:52 AM)GTTiger Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 07:41 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-08-2016 11:01 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If the goal is more quality inventory, I'd MUCH prefer this:
- 8 conference games + 2 required P5 OOC games
- 1 can be against another ACC team if desired, but it won't count in conference standings.

That way teams who want to play 9 ACC teams + 1 OOC can do it,
and teams that want 8 ACC + 2 true OOC games can do that.

Either way, ESPN gets plent of quality games this way.

Looking at FBS Scheduling for GT anyways...the 9 game ACC is a good thing and the three NON would be

FCS (always a home game)
ND or G5/P5 home and home series
UGA

So a 9 game ACC schedule really would be a good thing..

As is nearly always the case, what one school considers a good thing, another may consider a bad thing. From what I have seen on this forum, I would imagine that Clemson would be strongly against a nine game league schedule. They might be so strongly opposed that it could tip them in favor of leaving the conference.

Unfortunately for them, the very people who they would want to support such a move have a vested interest in preventing it. The same goes for FSU to a degree.

So the question is: How desirable is it for the ACC to have two of its strongest football programs held hostage by ESPN? That can't be healthy. IMO, a situation like that would almost demand that the league find some way to accommodate their legitimate scheduling concerns in some way. Perhaps one way that could be done is to guarantee that they each play Notre Dame more often than other members (assuming Notre Dame would be willing to do that).

If Notre Dame played each of them every year, one at home, the other away, then the other 12 members would get the Irish once every four years instead of once every three. That doesn't seem to be too great a sacrifice to me. But then, I'm not the one being asked to sacrifice.

A question I would have is whether either FSU or Clemson would accept ND as an annual opponent, knowing that their other commitments (Florida and South Carolina, plus Clemson's commitment to an instate FCS game) would limit their options for more regional opponents, like Georgia or Auburn.

I suspect a nine game league schedule will be a tough sell unless the NCAA allows a pre-season unofficial tune-up against an FCS team in addition to 12 regular season games.

You bring up a good point about Clemson and FSU. For them though if ESPN wants 9 conf games they will get it.

Now what may make this not so critical is that the home games of ACC teams could be on the ACC Network. For example next years Auburn at Clemson is possible inventory.

A compromise might be more home and home games with power 5 teams.

It's not like any other conference is playing fewer than 9 either except the SEC.

I doubt that a Clemson-Auburn game would be relegated to an ACCN. It would be too valuable to limit distribution when it would command a large audience either OTA or on ESPN.

From an FSU perspective, I actually posted nearly an identical post on the main forum just before reading this one. We are in complete agreement. There is universal agreement amongst FSU fans and alum that we would not want a 9 game conference schedule for the reasons you listed (primarily it would limit our ability to schedule regional opponents and/or play 1 FCS game a year, which in turn would put us at a disadvantage competitively and financially).

As I mentioned in the other thread, I could potentially see us coming around if there was some sort of deal that allowed us to play GT annually, but outside that I can't see any FSU supporter wanting this.

(06-09-2016 12:51 PM)3BNole Wrote:  As I mentioned in the other thread, I could potentially see us coming around if there was some sort of deal that allowed us to play GT annually, but outside that I can't see any FSU supporter wanting this.

attracting more of what you want ...

NINE IS A RATIONAL NUMBER

Why not 10? Or 11?

(06-09-2016 10:58 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 07:22 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-08-2016 07:38 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...-post.html

"Remember the parameters of the nine-game league schedule ACC schools adopted in 2012, only to shelve eighth months later? Time to unearth that file.

Indeed, nine games are quite possible if, as expected, the ACC and ESPN agree by year's end to broaden the league’s exposure through traditional (cable) and progressive (online streaming) means."

....

"(Not as pressing, but related: Some ACC basketball coaches, led by Notre Dame's Mike Brey, advocate expanding the league schedule from 18 to 20 games. They believe this would enhance teams' NCAA tournament credentials, with the added benefit of creating more content for ESPN."

This tells me two things:

1) Notre Dame will remain a partial in football for a long while.

2)Texas will come into the league as a partial not a full member (at least as long as the LHN contract lasts, which is about time that Notre Dame might be "ready" ((around 2035)) ).

So, you are admitting that I have been right all along? :)

Ask me again in 2035.

Adding a 9th conference game gives you 7 games for inventory. As others have noted, some of theses games would not be very valuable as inventory.

My solution would be expand the P5 requirement so each school has a P5 OOC home game every year. This would mean 14 home games available not just 7. In Clemson's case, the first year would be South Carolina at home, UGA away. The second year would be South Carolina away, UGA at home. As we have discussed before, any team can opt out of the Notre Dame game.

(06-09-2016 12:01 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:56 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:53 AM)green Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:48 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 11:38 AM)green Wrote:  not so fast ...
according to nd's AD who should know ...
usc, standford, navy ...
those 3 ...

PROTECTED SPECIES

I know very little, almost nothing, about Miami's fanbase, its plans, it goals.

You know less than that about ND's fanbase, its plans and its goals.

STAY ON YOUR SIDE OF THE AISLE

agree to disagree ...

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH

That leaves no room for the Shamrock Series games, for games against SEC foes (like Georgia already scheduled) or for games against Michigan State and Ohio State (already scheduled).

PAUL HARVEY

that's your problem not mine ...

WHAT GIVES

If you are one that wants ND football to join, it is your "problem"

ND isn't worried about what the ACC wants, it is worried about what is best for it.

TWO TO TANGO