The attack on the University system in NC has been as great as the attack on the municipalities. If you live outside NC and are not politically inclined you do not understand what's happening. NC was the most progressive state in the South for nearly 50 years until this cabal of rural rednecks and damn carpetbagger tea party pubs took over the General Assembly halfway through Sugar Puddin's term as governor. It has been a headlong run back to the 1940's.

The Governor is just Duke Energy's puppet. The real power lies in the General Assembly with Phil Berger from Rockingham County and Tim Moore from Kings Mountain - Berger lives in a rural area on the Va boarder north of Hillsboro - I will spare you the local pejoratives of the area. Moore is from SC boarder near Spartanburg and the big peach in Gaffney - deep south mill villages.

The urban areas have all been gerrymandered out of power so Asheville, Charlotte, Greensboro, Raleigh, Chapel Hill, and Durham have been under steady attack. These areas are so rural that it does not matter to them what happens in the developed third of the State. As the dysfunction grows, many voters remain too ill-informed to understand what happened and why.

20 years ago if the chair of the BOT or BOG told the General Assembly something was needed - they GA hopped to - now they are convinced of their own mental superiority having drug down everyone around them.

(09-14-2016 09:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:50 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:41 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  I think that some of those on this board who support HB2 think that others aren't allowed to have a different opinion or, at least, have no right to act on their opinion. I'm positive that there are ACC member institutions who feel strong opposition to HB2. In fact, I'd say this is probably a majority of ACC school. To not move these championships out of NC would be highly divisive. Some ACC schools might refuse to send teams to these events in NC. The ACC can't go there. If you feel strongly that HB2 is right, fine, you're entitled to your opinion but in the end you have to be realistic. Others are also entitled to their opinions and to act on their opinions. Unless HB2 is more important to you than the ACC, you need to respect the strength of the opposition to HB2. Supporters of HB2 have nothing they can use to force schools in other states to accept HB2. Nothing.

This is about politics and whether or not the ACC as an athletic conference should be involved.

Apparently, the Presidents of all 15 ACC schools think this is an appropriate issue for them to be involved with. So it really doesn't matter what we think.

Doesn't the ACC have the responsibility to protect its student athletes & fans from discrimination?

(09-14-2016 10:36 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 09:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:50 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:41 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  I think that some of those on this board who support HB2 think that others aren't allowed to have a different opinion or, at least, have no right to act on their opinion. I'm positive that there are ACC member institutions who feel strong opposition to HB2. In fact, I'd say this is probably a majority of ACC school. To not move these championships out of NC would be highly divisive. Some ACC schools might refuse to send teams to these events in NC. The ACC can't go there. If you feel strongly that HB2 is right, fine, you're entitled to your opinion but in the end you have to be realistic. Others are also entitled to their opinions and to act on their opinions. Unless HB2 is more important to you than the ACC, you need to respect the strength of the opposition to HB2. Supporters of HB2 have nothing they can use to force schools in other states to accept HB2. Nothing.

This is about politics and whether or not the ACC as an athletic conference should be involved.

Apparently, the Presidents of all 15 ACC schools think this is an appropriate issue for them to be involved with. So it really doesn't matter what we think.

Doesn't the ACC have the responsibility to protect its student athletes & fans from discrimination?

Since the late 60's/early 70's the State of NC's education infrastructure ran the State and called the shots. Terry Sanford (Duke), Jim Hunt (NC State), Jim Martin (Davidson), Hunt again, and Beverly Purdue (Sugarpuddin') (UNC) along with the UNC BOG Chair, and the Chair of the NC Community Colleges ran the State. Only one governor since 1972 was outside the university sphere until the morons we have now. The unbridled fear of UNC system schools is to be mentioned int he same breath with Alabama, Mississippi, etc.

The current cabal has made that possible and the ACC is a legitimate combatant in the fight. The ACC itself is somewhat a creature of the old business/country club republicans in the greater Greensboro area, so they have been drug into the war at that level, not to mention what faculty are saying at UVa, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, and among other peers (it is getting to be fall symposium season you know).

The ridged but generally unmentioned class system that ran NC has broken down as it is breaking down in other parts of the country as the bifurcated world between rural areas and urban/suburban areas continue to diverge.

Economic strife breeds demagogues and empowers morons. The question is how bad it will get before it gets better.

(09-14-2016 04:36 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:54 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I wouldn't be so sure that this is going away any time soon either.

And GTS, I understand where you are coming from on the Charlotte deal but they only have themselves to blame as they were the ones who passed the ordinance that resulted in this despite the fact that they didn't have the authority to do so per NC law. If the People's Republic of Char-Meck gets burnt by this they brought it on themselves.

Both the city and the state have acted like idjits. As for where the game should've held; I think holding it at the home team stadium is a great opportunity to run a test case.

I agree with all of this. As is often the case with hotly contested political issues, both sides have become so entrenched that they are now abandoning all reason.

The spokesperson for the Republican Party of North Carolina that was on SportsCenter last night was a straight up embarrassment.

I do for a living what she was trying to do last night and I've been doing it for a long time. I think I come at it with a firm understanding of what she should have been trying to do.

She missed the whole point of why she was speaking in the first place. When you get to that stage, you were not trying to win an argument or embarrass or belittle anyone. The second you reduce yourself to that level, you lose the greater argument - which is the whole phucking point of you being on camera in the first place!

Her ENTIRE job there – which she completely botched in a comically embarrassing way – is to make her side look like the rational, reasonable, aggrieved side. That's Public Relations 101.

You do that by taking the high road – or appearing to take the high road while slipping in your talking points the entire time. It is called "message discipline" and many, many otherwise bright people struggle mightily in that regard. If you want to slip in a snide remark or two, you can do that but it is dangerous because remember, the whole point of you going on camera is to take the high road. You MUST look like the reasonable side and make the other side look like the activists.

The standby the conservatives have used for years is something along the lines of, "Golly, we have no idea how this turned into us being bigoted towards anyone? We are not trying to infringe on anyone's rights. However, we are not willing to give anyone extra rights."

It's all complete bullshitt, of course. They are absolutely discriminating against transgender people. They probably think they're doing it the name of God are some goofy bullshitt. Who knows? However, if you stick to the high road message, people will often believe it – even when it's clearly contrary to your actions.

Instead, this moron just throws all of that out the window and doesn't even try to take the high road. She headed straight for the gutter – and the real shame of it is her remarks seemed prepared so it was not a case of extemporaneous speaking gone awry. She clearly planned to do what she did – which is incredibly stupid and completely amateurish.

She launched into a childish attack on the NCAA and Baylor and she looked like an imbecile doing it. I'm sure she undermined the conservatives' already problematic message for a hell of a lot of people.

However, before anyone watches and calling me a lefty or all of the rest of it, save your breath. I don't really care about that issue so save the venom for someone else. I am merely talking about the mechanics of getting out a message and I just know obvious bullshitt when I smell it. Still, I don't think the NCAA or the ACC should have made the decisions they did. I just believe that those types of organizations should be apolitical by definition and once you head down this road, it is a very slippery slope.

That said, they probably had no real choice because I'm sure that their corporate partners and their university communities were pressuring them pretty intensely and they probably had no choice but to capitulate.

The ACC was wise to act quickly after the NCAA's decision yesterday. You do not want to be paired with the discriminators in human rights case – Especially whenever the whole damn world knows they are going to eventually lose, probably sooner than later. They are simply on the wrong side of history here and common sense will prevail.

(09-14-2016 10:36 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Doesn't the ACC have the responsibility to protect its student athletes & fans from discrimination?

I don't even think the ACC or NCAA has addressed transgendered athletes yet. And that's because they don't want to head down the SUPER DUPER messy road of horomone testing, time after transition guidelines, etc. The UFC is trying to figure this out now. They have a few women who started out in life as men, and testosterone is a MARKED advantage in fighting. It makes it easier to gain muscle mass. It makes it easier to keep muscle mass. It makes your reflexes quicker. And they don't know what to do when the transgendered fighter is brutally beating down nearly everyone she faces, to the point of ending several careers.

So ... with that out of the way as a red herring for now ... let's address fans. If that is a serious concern, why are UNC, Wake Forest, NC State, and Duke allowed ANY home games? You can't have it both ways. Either they can't play home games, or this is purely a political stunt. You gotta pick one.

(09-14-2016 03:33 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Why is it now the job of the Atlantic Coast Conference -- which represents athletic competition among higher education -- to deliver political ultimatums and become a political entity?

A university is always a political entity.

If you have no taste for college life, avoid college athletics. Universities will forever disappoint the sports purist with their ivory-tower distractions that interfere with all the truly important things in life, like zone blocking.

Pro ball--now there is the pastime at its most apolitical, virginal, and pristine. There is a spectator sport for the purist.

(Fetch a beer during the anthem, though.)

Quote:You are extremely cavalier about the collateral damage being done here.

Legislators didn't think through the likely consequences of a constitutionally dubious bill before foisting it onto their constituents. This obliges everyone to discover in real time what the consequences are.

Damage tends to result from cavalier moves like that, yes.

Quote:The ACC doesn't have to do a thing they don't want to do when it comes to football.

Then the ACC must think this is important.

Quote:

(09-14-2016 03:21 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  Because your partners are savvy business people who saw this possibility coming and are able to absorb a short-term loss.

That's quite an ENORMOUS conjecture on your part.

You have a point. Maybe the ACC's partners in NC are not savvy business people. Maybe they face this setback with no Plan B—no insurance, credit, emergency fund, KickStarter account, nothing.

Yow. If that's the case, it's time for the ACC to find some new partners.

Maybe the ACC can meet some savvy business people in DC, Orlando, New York, or Atlanta. Do any exist there? We will see, I guess.

Quote:If you're so dead set on this being short and temporary, then I fail to see the need to act whatsoever.

Because taking the right action at the right time helps to ensure that temporary problems stay temporary.

(Feel free to ask your doctor about other useful applications of this idea.)

Quote:The political culture rift between the Northern flank of the conference and the Southern one couldn't be any bigger. And this is just chopping away and making that divide even bigger. [....] If this is the kind of moves we get out of the "leadership" of this conference, I guess I should stop being surprised that the ACC lags behind its peers and instead focus on what happens next after this patchwork quilt of competing interests falls apart.

No worries. That patchwork quilt signed a grant of rights. Those competing interests won't fall apart before 2036 at the earliest.

Get ready for a full generation of ACC sports action!

(09-14-2016 10:36 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 09:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:50 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:41 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  I think that some of those on this board who support HB2 think that others aren't allowed to have a different opinion or, at least, have no right to act on their opinion. I'm positive that there are ACC member institutions who feel strong opposition to HB2. In fact, I'd say this is probably a majority of ACC school. To not move these championships out of NC would be highly divisive. Some ACC schools might refuse to send teams to these events in NC. The ACC can't go there. If you feel strongly that HB2 is right, fine, you're entitled to your opinion but in the end you have to be realistic. Others are also entitled to their opinions and to act on their opinions. Unless HB2 is more important to you than the ACC, you need to respect the strength of the opposition to HB2. Supporters of HB2 have nothing they can use to force schools in other states to accept HB2. Nothing.

This is about politics and whether or not the ACC as an athletic conference should be involved.

Apparently, the Presidents of all 15 ACC schools think this is an appropriate issue for them to be involved with. So it really doesn't matter what we think.

Doesn't the ACC have the responsibility to protect its student athletes & fans from discrimination?

No, the ACC is not a governmental institution. The things you suggest are the function of government, not an athletic association.

(09-14-2016 03:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:24 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  Put the game in Charlottesville. It's not like there's a chance U.Va. will be playing in the game.

They probably want to put it somewhere that has experience handling a large crowd.

I realize this suggestion will probably be jeered unmercifully, but could the ACC act out of the box here and put the football championship in Columbia, SC? I bet they have a suitable stadium that won't be needed that week.

(09-15-2016 07:55 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:24 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  Put the game in Charlottesville. It's not like there's a chance U.Va. will be playing in the game.

They probably want to put it somewhere that has experience handling a large crowd.

I realize this suggestion will probably be jeered unmercifully, but could the ACC act out of the box here and put the football championship in Columbia, SC? I bet they have a suitable stadium that won't be needed that week.

(09-14-2016 05:31 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:33 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:21 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  Because you want to demonstrate to lawmakers that you take the matter very seriously, and that any mention you make of taking further steps is just as serious.

Why is it now the job of the Atlantic Coast Conference -- which represents athletic competition among higher education -- to deliver political ultimatums and become a political entity?

(09-14-2016 03:21 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  Because your partners know it is not you that is burning them, but the state legislature that is burning everybody.

They may understand that your actions are BECAUSE of the legislature, but that in no way lessens the impact of you taking an enormous dump on your allies. You are extremely cavalier about the collateral damage being done here. I've seen more care given to collateral damage in drone strikes in Pakistan.

(09-14-2016 03:21 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  Because your partners can read sports news. They knew when the NCAA acted that their college sports league partner would have to.

The ACC doesn't have to do a thing they don't want to do when it comes to football. The NCAA has VERY little power beyond recruiting and academic rules in football. The ACC Championship is between ESPN, the ACC, and the venue. Nobody else. In fact, the NCAA is walking on egg shells regarding football because they know if the P5 take their ball and go home the NCAA will become the NAIA 2.0 overnight.

(09-14-2016 03:21 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  Because your partners are savvy business people who saw this possibility coming and are able to absorb a short-term loss.

That's quite an ENORMOUS conjecture on your part. You show me somewhere where the City of Charlotte and the sports organization behind the Charlotte football games said long ago they were prepared for the worst and losing the revenue, despite being on the same team as the ACC on this issue?

(09-14-2016 03:21 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  Because a championship event is only one date in one year. It's relatively easier to move on short notice--either away from a locale, or back--than moving your headquarters.

You delay moving your headquarters because that's a permanent move. You don't do it unless the problem looks permanent. Right now it doesn't. It looks far more likely that NC House Bill 2 will die as some legislative heads roll.

If you're so dead set on this being short and temporary, then I fail to see the need to act whatsoever. I'd rather not crap all over my allies and partners and avoid becoming political as a creature that has no business in politics in the first place.

(09-14-2016 03:21 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  The ACC made a measured, proportional response. It has other states it can call home, other options open to it--and it has more time to explore those thanks to its refusal to act impulsively.

What happens next is up to the NC statehouse. We will see.

The next move may be with the statehouse, but this move is enormously harmful. The political culture rift between the Northern flank of the conference and the Southern one couldn't be any bigger. And this is just chopping away and making that divide even bigger. The ACC crapped all over it's best municipal allie. And it showed that it has a total inability to behave pragmatically and stay above the fray.




If this is the kind of moves we get out of the "leadership" of this conference, I guess I should stop being surprised that the ACC lags behind its peers and instead focus on what happens next after this patchwork quilt of competing interests falls apart.

Out of the next 5 final four sites (Minnesota, Georgia, Texas, Arizona, and Indiana), only Minnesota complies with the reasons that the NCAA pulled championships out of North Carolina for.

And what reason do you think that is?

(09-14-2016 03:33 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The political culture rift between the Northern flank of the conference and the Southern one couldn't be any bigger. And this is just chopping away and making that divide even bigger. [....] If this is the kind of moves we get out of the "leadership" of this conference, I guess I should stop being surprised that the ACC lags behind its peers and instead focus on what happens next after this patchwork quilt of competing interests falls apart.

I don't see this at all. This action was not driven by the "northern flank" of the conference. It was a unanimous vote. Further, there are people on both sides of the issue throughout the country.

I will say, HB2 might have come in handy at the Jason Aldean concert in Boston on Saturday to keep women out of the men's room, but I digress.

(09-14-2016 11:13 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 10:36 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Doesn't the ACC have the responsibility to protect its student athletes & fans from discrimination?

I don't even think the ACC or NCAA has addressed transgendered athletes yet. And that's because they don't want to head down the SUPER DUPER messy road of horomone testing, time after transition guidelines, etc. The UFC is trying to figure this out now. They have a few women who started out in life as men, and testosterone is a MARKED advantage in fighting. It makes it easier to gain muscle mass. It makes it easier to keep muscle mass. It makes your reflexes quicker. And they don't know what to do when the transgendered fighter is brutally beating down nearly everyone she faces, to the point of ending several careers.

So ... with that out of the way as a red herring for now ... let's address fans. If that is a serious concern, why are UNC, Wake Forest, NC State, and Duke allowed ANY home games? You can't have it both ways. Either they can't play home games, or this is purely a political stunt. You gotta pick one.

The first part is pretty complicated & it is a super duper messy road. The NCAA & the ACC still has the responsibility to at least try to keep its students away from situations to where they could be discriminated against.

As to the second part, that is a separate issue. Students of NC, Duke, NC State & WF choose to attend those universities in that state. Student athletes from the other ACC members didn't. The presidents of the universities have a lot more to worry about than to take heat over NC HB2 so I don't blame them for taking the easy way out. This way they can say that they have done something. Hopefully this will give NC time & boost it needs to overturn this pro discrimination bill before any more action is forced to happen.

(09-14-2016 03:33 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The political culture rift between the Northern flank of the conference and the Southern one couldn't be any bigger. And this is just chopping away and making that divide even bigger.

(09-15-2016 08:22 AM)orangefan Wrote:  I don't see this at all. This action was not driven by the "northern flank" of the conference. It was a unanimous vote.

Maybe swagger's suggestion is that the 'southern flank' drove it. The diabolical plot would be to move ACC championship events... farther south.

If so, the plan seems to be working. Take that, Boston!

(09-15-2016 07:17 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 10:36 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 09:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:50 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:41 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  I think that some of those on this board who support HB2 think that others aren't allowed to have a different opinion or, at least, have no right to act on their opinion. I'm positive that there are ACC member institutions who feel strong opposition to HB2. In fact, I'd say this is probably a majority of ACC school. To not move these championships out of NC would be highly divisive. Some ACC schools might refuse to send teams to these events in NC. The ACC can't go there. If you feel strongly that HB2 is right, fine, you're entitled to your opinion but in the end you have to be realistic. Others are also entitled to their opinions and to act on their opinions. Unless HB2 is more important to you than the ACC, you need to respect the strength of the opposition to HB2. Supporters of HB2 have nothing they can use to force schools in other states to accept HB2. Nothing.

This is about politics and whether or not the ACC as an athletic conference should be involved.

Apparently, the Presidents of all 15 ACC schools think this is an appropriate issue for them to be involved with. So it really doesn't matter what we think.

Doesn't the ACC have the responsibility to protect its student athletes & fans from discrimination?

No, the ACC is not a governmental institution. The things you suggest are the function of government, not an athletic association.

They still have the responsibility of the well being of their student athletes. Certainly most of the day to day responsibilities fall upon the individual universities & they are doing a good job. Where it falls onto the ACC & the NCAA is at one of their events. If it knows that there's a good chance of discrimination occurring at one of its sites then they have very little choice but to move when possible or they could find themselves apart of an anti discrimination lawsuit themselves.

(09-15-2016 08:49 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(09-15-2016 07:17 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 10:36 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 09:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:50 PM)XLance Wrote:  This is about politics and whether or not the ACC as an athletic conference should be involved.

Apparently, the Presidents of all 15 ACC schools think this is an appropriate issue for them to be involved with. So it really doesn't matter what we think.

Doesn't the ACC have the responsibility to protect its student athletes & fans from discrimination?

No, the ACC is not a governmental institution. The things you suggest are the function of government, not an athletic association.

They still have the responsibility of the well being of their student athletes. Certainly most of the day to day responsibilities fall upon the individual universities & they are doing a good job. Where it falls onto the ACC & the NCAA is at one of their events. If it knows that there's a good chance of discrimination occurring at one of its sites then they have very little choice but to move when possible or they could find themselves apart of an anti discrimination lawsuit themselves.

If the conference wants change in the attitude of the State of North Carolina, it would behoove them to enter a dialogue with the State rather than adopt a "take my ball and go home" attitude, which is only going to cause hardship and bad feelings.
Again the Conference is not a governmental entity and has no responsibility to protect values or enforce laws.

(09-15-2016 08:43 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:33 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The political culture rift between the Northern flank of the conference and the Southern one couldn't be any bigger. And this is just chopping away and making that divide even bigger.

(09-15-2016 08:22 AM)orangefan Wrote:  I don't see this at all. This action was not driven by the "northern flank" of the conference. It was a unanimous vote.

Maybe swagger's suggestion is that the 'southern flank' drove it. The diabolical plot would be to move ACC championship events... farther south.

If so, the plan seems to be working. Take that, Boston!

The "culture rift" isn't a north vs south thing on this. North Carolinians are divided on it among themselves. That being said, a majority of them oppose this bill, but don't have the political power within the state to overturn it, and won't until the current voting districts are changed by the courts (and that might never happen).

Even though Republicans and Democrats are pretty evenly split in terms of the number of votes cast for each representative, the GOP has turned that into a 10-3 advantage in congressional seats. Those same gerrymandered districts also stack the state legislature in the GOP's favor, and the party has used that extraordinary leverage to disenfranchise traditional [business/country club] Republicans almost as much as Democrats.

The people in NC who are being hurt financially by the reaction to this bill aren't the ones who control the votes. They aren't feeling any pain, and may even be reveling in the pain being dished out to their political enemies. IMO, this will not be resolved until the courts intervene, or until federal legislation provides the kind of protection against discrimination that HB2 denies.

(09-15-2016 09:11 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-15-2016 08:43 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:33 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The political culture rift between the Northern flank of the conference and the Southern one couldn't be any bigger. And this is just chopping away and making that divide even bigger.

(09-15-2016 08:22 AM)orangefan Wrote:  I don't see this at all. This action was not driven by the "northern flank" of the conference. It was a unanimous vote.

Maybe swagger's suggestion is that the 'southern flank' drove it. The diabolical plot would be to move ACC championship events... farther south.

If so, the plan seems to be working. Take that, Boston!

The "culture rift" isn't a north vs south thing on this. North Carolinians are divided on it among themselves. That being said, a majority of them oppose this bill,but don't have the political power within the state to overturn it, and won't until the current voting districts are changed by the courts (and that might never happen).

Even though Republicans and Democrats are pretty evenly split in terms of the number of votes cast for each representative, the GOP has turned that into a 10-3 advantage in congressional seats. Those same gerrymandered districts also stack the state legislature in the GOP's favor, and the party has used that extraordinary leverage to disenfranchise traditional [business/country club] Republicans almost as much as Democrats.

The people in NC who are being hurt financially by the reaction to this bill aren't the ones who control the votes. They aren't feeling any pain, and may even be reveling in the pain being dished out to their political enemies. IMO, this will not be resolved until the courts intervene, or until federal legislation provides the kind of protection against discrimination that HB2 denies.

I wouldn't be too sure about that!
The Constitutional amendment re: marriage passed with over 75% of the vote.

(09-15-2016 09:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-15-2016 09:11 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-15-2016 08:43 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:33 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The political culture rift between the Northern flank of the conference and the Southern one couldn't be any bigger. And this is just chopping away and making that divide even bigger.

(09-15-2016 08:22 AM)orangefan Wrote:  I don't see this at all. This action was not driven by the "northern flank" of the conference. It was a unanimous vote.

Maybe swagger's suggestion is that the 'southern flank' drove it. The diabolical plot would be to move ACC championship events... farther south.

If so, the plan seems to be working. Take that, Boston!

The "culture rift" isn't a north vs south thing on this. North Carolinians are divided on it among themselves. That being said, a majority of them oppose this bill,but don't have the political power within the state to overturn it, and won't until the current voting districts are changed by the courts (and that might never happen).

Even though Republicans and Democrats are pretty evenly split in terms of the number of votes cast for each representative, the GOP has turned that into a 10-3 advantage in congressional seats. Those same gerrymandered districts also stack the state legislature in the GOP's favor, and the party has used that extraordinary leverage to disenfranchise traditional [business/country club] Republicans almost as much as Democrats.

The people in NC who are being hurt financially by the reaction to this bill aren't the ones who control the votes. They aren't feeling any pain, and may even be reveling in the pain being dished out to their political enemies. IMO, this will not be resolved until the courts intervene, or until federal legislation provides the kind of protection against discrimination that HB2 denies.

I wouldn't be too sure about that!
The Constitutional amendment re: marriage passed with over 75% of the vote.

But the most recent poll on HB2 showed 50% opposed, 38% in favor and 12% undecided.

(09-15-2016 09:35 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-15-2016 09:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-15-2016 09:11 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-15-2016 08:43 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:33 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The political culture rift between the Northern flank of the conference and the Southern one couldn't be any bigger. And this is just chopping away and making that divide even bigger.

(09-15-2016 08:22 AM)orangefan Wrote:  I don't see this at all. This action was not driven by the "northern flank" of the conference. It was a unanimous vote.

Maybe swagger's suggestion is that the 'southern flank' drove it. The diabolical plot would be to move ACC championship events... farther south.

If so, the plan seems to be working. Take that, Boston!

The "culture rift" isn't a north vs south thing on this. North Carolinians are divided on it among themselves. That being said, a majority of them oppose this bill,but don't have the political power within the state to overturn it, and won't until the current voting districts are changed by the courts (and that might never happen).

Even though Republicans and Democrats are pretty evenly split in terms of the number of votes cast for each representative, the GOP has turned that into a 10-3 advantage in congressional seats. Those same gerrymandered districts also stack the state legislature in the GOP's favor, and the party has used that extraordinary leverage to disenfranchise traditional [business/country club] Republicans almost as much as Democrats.

The people in NC who are being hurt financially by the reaction to this bill aren't the ones who control the votes. They aren't feeling any pain, and may even be reveling in the pain being dished out to their political enemies. IMO, this will not be resolved until the courts intervene, or until federal legislation provides the kind of protection against discrimination that HB2 denies.

I wouldn't be too sure about that!
The Constitutional amendment re: marriage passed with over 75% of the vote.

But the most recent poll on HB2 showed 50% opposed, 38% in favor and 12% undecided.

This state is being run by ignorant rednecks and is an embarrassment. This along with their criminal voter laws is taking the state back 40 years... but I think that is what they want!

(09-15-2016 09:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-15-2016 09:11 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-15-2016 08:43 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:33 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The political culture rift between the Northern flank of the conference and the Southern one couldn't be any bigger. And this is just chopping away and making that divide even bigger.

(09-15-2016 08:22 AM)orangefan Wrote:  I don't see this at all. This action was not driven by the "northern flank" of the conference. It was a unanimous vote.

Maybe swagger's suggestion is that the 'southern flank' drove it. The diabolical plot would be to move ACC championship events... farther south.

If so, the plan seems to be working. Take that, Boston!

The "culture rift" isn't a north vs south thing on this. North Carolinians are divided on it among themselves. That being said, a majority of them oppose this bill,but don't have the political power within the state to overturn it, and won't until the current voting districts are changed by the courts (and that might never happen).

Even though Republicans and Democrats are pretty evenly split in terms of the number of votes cast for each representative, the GOP has turned that into a 10-3 advantage in congressional seats. Those same gerrymandered districts also stack the state legislature in the GOP's favor, and the party has used that extraordinary leverage to disenfranchise traditional [business/country club] Republicans almost as much as Democrats.

The people in NC who are being hurt financially by the reaction to this bill aren't the ones who control the votes. They aren't feeling any pain, and may even be reveling in the pain being dished out to their political enemies. IMO, this will not be resolved until the courts intervene, or until federal legislation provides the kind of protection against discrimination that HB2 denies.

I wouldn't be too sure about that!
The Constitutional amendment re: marriage passed with over 75% of the vote.

I thought that sounded high, so I looked it up. The amendment passed with 61% of the vote, but in a May election in which there was only a 34% voter turnout and a contested Republican presidential primary on the ballot.