Recently there was a thread about USF attendance. USF is the only school among 128 FBS schools that releases announced attendance (what everyone else, all other 127 FBS programs, releases on a week to week basis), AND ALSO has an actual turnstile number given (none of the other 127 FBS programs have this number given on a week to week basis, mainly due to playing in OCS's, but also other reasons. This is because USF plays in a public stadium and the actual figures are released by the Tampa Sports Authority. So, naturally, some feel USF "fudges" announced attendance numbers more than others. This notion is a lie. All announced attendance numbers are tickets distributed, not actual turnstile. I posted about 10+ articles to this fact, and honestly, I could have posted 100. Your school is not unique. Every team in every major sport uses announced/tickets distributed, which is significantly more than who actually attends, in every case. And, that's true, whether you are talking about NCAAF, MLB, NFL, NBA, and NHL, to minor league sports. In every single case where a study has been done, the announced figure is always higher, and usually significantly so, than an actual number.

On a few occasions, local beat writers for NCAA football teams (other than USF) were able to get actual numbers. Kentucky, Memphis, and UConn come to mind. And in every single case the actual turnstile number was significantly less than the announced attendance. Your school is not special. Everyone uses an announced number, and not an actual number.

Recently, a writer was able to obtain an actual number for Illinois football games this year (to my knowledge the only other program that had announced vs. actual numbers released weekly this year for every game) other than a few spotty other numbers released. And, guess what, their actual is way less than announced! This is not unique to any program but done across the board. Every single time a writer was able to obtain an actual figure, it ALWAYS came out to significantly less than announced. Your school does this too. If you think they do not, then you simply do not understand how the process works. Every MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, NCAAF, and minor league team "pads" announced attendance numbers over the actual turnstile number. Again, we could provide over 100 articles proving this fact.

At any rate, here were Illinois actual vs. announced attendance numbers. Enjoy.

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2...seats.html

Sellout ... but plenty of empty seats

Tue, 10/04/2016 - 7:00am | Jeff D'Alessio

Officially, Illinois’ Sept. 10 night game against North Carolina went down as the first “sellout” at Memorial Stadium since Michigan came to town in 2011. But the actual turnstile count — different than the tickets-distributed number you’ll hear read over the PA system at any major college football stadium — reveals that the bandwagon still has seats available:

Sept. 3: Murray State

Announced: 48,644

Actual: 32,630

Sept. 10: North Carolina

Announced: 60,670

Actual: 47,877*

Sept. 17: Western Michigan

Announced: 40,954 '

Acutal: 25,601

* — The turnstile count for the UNC game beat the same figure for the best-attended home game of 2015 — Ohio State, on Nov. 14 — by 5,671 fans.

This has been posted before...where Tulane student paper looked at actual game attendance for the games played in the SuperDome...where Tulane hit a low of just 4,055 fans per game in 2011...a year where Tulane's announced average attendance was 19,726.

http://www.tulanehullabaloo.com/archives...f8a0b.html

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't say USF is the only one who has announced and actuals given. There are others on occasion, but usually not on a week to week basis. As far as on a week to week basis, it seems the USF beat writer, Joey Knight, is about the only writer who gets these numbers on a weekly basis from any program in FBS. There could be a couple other examples though, but it's rare.

(10-14-2016 12:35 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  This has been posted before...where Tulane student paper looked at actual game attendance for the games played in the SuperDome...where Tulane hit a low of just 4,055 fans per game in 2011...a year where Tulane's announced average attendance was 19,726.

http://www.tulanehullabaloo.com/archives...f8a0b.html

I wonder if they would be able to get the actual numbers from Yulman stadium. Probably not.

The Liberty Bowl is owned by the city of Memphis and Lincoln Field is owned by the city of Philadelphia. Why do their public stadiums have different reporting standards than Tampa's public stadium?

(10-14-2016 12:44 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(10-14-2016 12:35 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  This has been posted before...where Tulane student paper looked at actual game attendance for the games played in the SuperDome...where Tulane hit a low of just 4,055 fans per game in 2011...a year where Tulane's announced average attendance was 19,726.

http://www.tulanehullabaloo.com/archives...f8a0b.html

I wonder if they would be able to get the actual numbers from Yulman stadium. Probably not.

Prob not as the stadium is privately owned. Just an FYI, the attendance is much much better. it looks worse on TV because the entire TV side (literally the entire side) is composed of Club seating with indoor access to free booze and food (not just stadium food but catered by local restaurants). I'd say there has been an average of about 18-19k actual bodies. Not great but if we won things would improve quickly.

(10-14-2016 12:57 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  The Liberty Bowl is owned by the city of Memphis and Lincoln Field is owned by the city of Philadelphia. Why do their public stadiums have different reporting standards than Tampa's public stadium?

Truth

It's only a topic at all when the "announced" number looks silly in comparison to what actually showed up. Memphis infamously had slightly over 4k at a game against ECU when Porter was there but they "announced" attendance at close to 30k. They took crap for that on the C-USA board for quite a while. USF unfortunately has the issue of the actual number getting released so you can have actual "proof" of how fudged the announced numbers are. Other than the NC State game every game this year for ECU is gonna announce a number higher than what actually shows up, but unless the students are gone it usually looks decent enough that no one questions it.

As I recall Memphis had pre-sold 30K tickets for that game but game day was raining and in the low 30s. As bad as it gets on the discomfort scale. Plus it was on TV here in Memphis.

(10-14-2016 02:26 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  It's only a topic at all when the "announced" number looks silly in comparison to what actually showed up. Memphis infamously had slightly over 4k at a game against ECU when Porter was there but they "announced" attendance at close to 30k. They took crap for that on the C-USA board for quite a while. USF unfortunately has the issue of the actual number getting released so you can have actual "proof" of how fudged the announced numbers are. Other than the NC State game every game this year for ECU is gonna announce a number higher than what actually shows up, but unless the students are gone it usually looks decent enough that no one questions it.

Honestly it is fair to count ticket sold. That rain game for Memphis with 4k is a good example. UCF will usually get 1 game per year that just pours all day. Nobody with a family is sitting in pouring rain. Now the obvious fudging of week to week is humorous. My guess is usf counts tickets distributed along with FIU. Neither seem remotely close to actual attendance. Whatever it really doesn't matter.

I also think part of the issue Is that USF uses tickets "distributed" whereas most schools use tickets "sold." So USF can give away a ton of tickets to inflate their numbers. They are the only school I've ever noticed use that term.

Cuse has gone from distributed to turnstile over the past year... attendance is down 7-8k from 2014.

(10-14-2016 12:57 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  The Liberty Bowl is owned by the city of Memphis and Lincoln Field is owned by the city of Philadelphia. Why do their public stadiums have different reporting standards than Tampa's public stadium?

A "sports writer" could probably get that info by actively requesting that information from the public stadium. (I assume this would fall under FOIA?)

Actual attendance info regarding USF started with Bianchi who was very negative vs USF, particularly against ex-coach Leavitt when Bianchi was a local writer. He constantly requested the information for every game.

Before him, it was never discussed. Only announced attendance was reported, just like every other team.

The current writer, Joey Knight, seems to follow Bianchi footsteps and likes to constantly dig at the program in his articles.

(10-14-2016 02:43 PM)BullRush Wrote:  

(10-14-2016 12:57 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  The Liberty Bowl is owned by the city of Memphis and Lincoln Field is owned by the city of Philadelphia. Why do their public stadiums have different reporting standards than Tampa's public stadium?

A "sports writer" could probably get that info by actively requesting that information from the public stadium. (I assume this would fall under FOIA?)

Actual attendance info regarding USF started with Bianchi who was very negative vs USF, particularly against ex-coach Leavitt when Bianchi was a local writer. He constantly requested the information for every game.

Before him, it was never discussed. Only announced attendance was reported, just like every other team.

The current writer, Joey Knight, seems to follow Bianchi footsteps and likes to constantly dig at the program in his articles.

I bet Leavitt and Judy have voodoo dolls of Bianchi. I never seen a reporter troll so much in a public setting. I would say he was pretty responsible for starting that initial 4 game series.

(10-14-2016 02:41 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I also think part of the issue Is that USF uses tickets "distributed" whereas most schools use tickets "sold." So USF can give away a ton of tickets to inflate their numbers. They are the only school I've ever noticed use that term.

Do you have any evidence that supports this opinion?

(10-14-2016 12:57 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  The Liberty Bowl is owned by the city of Memphis and Lincoln Field is owned by the city of Philadelphia. Why do their public stadiums have different reporting standards than Tampa's public stadium?

The same people that gave you 'South' Florida in west central Florida. UCF must've grabbed 'Central' before they could.

(10-14-2016 12:27 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Recently there was a thread about USF attendance. USF is the only school among 128 FBS schools that releases announced attendance (what everyone else, all other 127 FBS programs, releases on a week to week basis), AND ALSO has an actual turnstile number given (none of the other 127 FBS programs have this number given on a week to week basis, mainly due to playing in OCS's, but also other reasons. This is because USF plays in a public stadium and the actual figures are released by the Tampa Sports Authority. So, naturally, some feel USF "fudges" announced attendance numbers more than others. This notion is a lie. All announced attendance numbers are tickets distributed, not actual turnstile. I posted about 10+ articles to this fact, and honestly, I could have posted 100. Your school is not unique. Every team in every major sport uses announced/tickets distributed, which is significantly more than who actually attends, in every case. And, that's true, whether you are talking about NCAAF, MLB, NFL, NBA, and NHL, to minor league sports. In every single case where a study has been done, the announced figure is always higher, and usually significantly so, than an actual number.

On a few occasions, local beat writers for NCAA football teams (other than USF) were able to get actual numbers. Kentucky, Memphis, and UConn come to mind. And in every single case the actual turnstile number was significantly less than the announced attendance. Your school is not special. Everyone uses an announced number, and not an actual number.

Recently, a writer was able to obtain an actual number for Illinois football games this year (to my knowledge the only other program that had announced vs. actual numbers released weekly this year for every game) other than a few spotty other numbers released. And, guess what, their actual is way less than announced! This is not unique to any program but done across the board. Every single time a writer was able to obtain an actual figure, it ALWAYS came out to significantly less than announced. Your school does this too. If you think they do not, then you simply do not understand how the process works. Every MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, NCAAF, and minor league team "pads" announced attendance numbers over the actual turnstile number. Again, we could provide over 100 articles proving this fact.

At any rate, here were Illinois actual vs. announced attendance numbers. Enjoy.

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2...seats.html

Sellout ... but plenty of empty seats

Tue, 10/04/2016 - 7:00am | Jeff D'Alessio

Officially, Illinois’ Sept. 10 night game against North Carolina went down as the first “sellout” at Memorial Stadium since Michigan came to town in 2011. But the actual turnstile count — different than the tickets-distributed number you’ll hear read over the PA system at any major college football stadium — reveals that the bandwagon still has seats available:

Sept. 3: Murray State

Announced: 48,644

Actual: 32,630

Sept. 10: North Carolina

Announced: 60,670

Actual: 47,877*

Sept. 17: Western Michigan

Announced: 40,954 '

Acutal: 25,601

* — The turnstile count for the UNC game beat the same figure for the best-attended home game of 2015 — Ohio State, on Nov. 14 — by 5,671 fans.

Ok, well since you used the Illinois example, the difference percentages were 49%, 25%, and 56% respectively. Actual vs Announced.

The last USF game was a 76% difference (17K vs 30K announced)

No one is doubting that other schools do this; we're simply saying that USF does this to an extent only really seen as places like EMU.

(10-14-2016 03:33 PM)The Knight Time Wrote:  

(10-14-2016 12:27 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Recently there was a thread about USF attendance. USF is the only school among 128 FBS schools that releases announced attendance (what everyone else, all other 127 FBS programs, releases on a week to week basis), AND ALSO has an actual turnstile number given (none of the other 127 FBS programs have this number given on a week to week basis, mainly due to playing in OCS's, but also other reasons. This is because USF plays in a public stadium and the actual figures are released by the Tampa Sports Authority. So, naturally, some feel USF "fudges" announced attendance numbers more than others. This notion is a lie. All announced attendance numbers are tickets distributed, not actual turnstile. I posted about 10+ articles to this fact, and honestly, I could have posted 100. Your school is not unique. Every team in every major sport uses announced/tickets distributed, which is significantly more than who actually attends, in every case. And, that's true, whether you are talking about NCAAF, MLB, NFL, NBA, and NHL, to minor league sports. In every single case where a study has been done, the announced figure is always higher, and usually significantly so, than an actual number.

On a few occasions, local beat writers for NCAA football teams (other than USF) were able to get actual numbers. Kentucky, Memphis, and UConn come to mind. And in every single case the actual turnstile number was significantly less than the announced attendance. Your school is not special. Everyone uses an announced number, and not an actual number.

Recently, a writer was able to obtain an actual number for Illinois football games this year (to my knowledge the only other program that had announced vs. actual numbers released weekly this year for every game) other than a few spotty other numbers released. And, guess what, their actual is way less than announced! This is not unique to any program but done across the board. Every single time a writer was able to obtain an actual figure, it ALWAYS came out to significantly less than announced. Your school does this too. If you think they do not, then you simply do not understand how the process works. Every MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, NCAAF, and minor league team "pads" announced attendance numbers over the actual turnstile number. Again, we could provide over 100 articles proving this fact.

At any rate, here were Illinois actual vs. announced attendance numbers. Enjoy.

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2...seats.html

Sellout ... but plenty of empty seats

Tue, 10/04/2016 - 7:00am | Jeff D'Alessio

Officially, Illinois’ Sept. 10 night game against North Carolina went down as the first “sellout” at Memorial Stadium since Michigan came to town in 2011. But the actual turnstile count — different than the tickets-distributed number you’ll hear read over the PA system at any major college football stadium — reveals that the bandwagon still has seats available:

Sept. 3: Murray State

Announced: 48,644

Actual: 32,630

Sept. 10: North Carolina

Announced: 60,670

Actual: 47,877*

Sept. 17: Western Michigan

Announced: 40,954 '

Acutal: 25,601

* — The turnstile count for the UNC game beat the same figure for the best-attended home game of 2015 — Ohio State, on Nov. 14 — by 5,671 fans.

Ok, well since you used the Illinois example, the difference percentages were 49%, 25%, and 56% respectively. Actual vs Announced.

The last USF game was a 76% difference (17K vs 30K announced)

No one is doubting that other schools do this; we're simply saying that USF does this to an extent only really seen as places like EMU.

Of course you picked the hurricane game to compare. Don't think Illinois had one of those at their games. Compare the previous three home games and you won't get that huge percentage, of course it then wouldn't support your agenda

(10-14-2016 03:33 PM)The Knight Time Wrote:  

(10-14-2016 12:27 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Recently there was a thread about USF attendance. USF is the only school among 128 FBS schools that releases announced attendance (what everyone else, all other 127 FBS programs, releases on a week to week basis), AND ALSO has an actual turnstile number given (none of the other 127 FBS programs have this number given on a week to week basis, mainly due to playing in OCS's, but also other reasons. This is because USF plays in a public stadium and the actual figures are released by the Tampa Sports Authority. So, naturally, some feel USF "fudges" announced attendance numbers more than others. This notion is a lie. All announced attendance numbers are tickets distributed, not actual turnstile. I posted about 10+ articles to this fact, and honestly, I could have posted 100. Your school is not unique. Every team in every major sport uses announced/tickets distributed, which is significantly more than who actually attends, in every case. And, that's true, whether you are talking about NCAAF, MLB, NFL, NBA, and NHL, to minor league sports. In every single case where a study has been done, the announced figure is always higher, and usually significantly so, than an actual number.

On a few occasions, local beat writers for NCAA football teams (other than USF) were able to get actual numbers. Kentucky, Memphis, and UConn come to mind. And in every single case the actual turnstile number was significantly less than the announced attendance. Your school is not special. Everyone uses an announced number, and not an actual number.

Recently, a writer was able to obtain an actual number for Illinois football games this year (to my knowledge the only other program that had announced vs. actual numbers released weekly this year for every game) other than a few spotty other numbers released. And, guess what, their actual is way less than announced! This is not unique to any program but done across the board. Every single time a writer was able to obtain an actual figure, it ALWAYS came out to significantly less than announced. Your school does this too. If you think they do not, then you simply do not understand how the process works. Every MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, NCAAF, and minor league team "pads" announced attendance numbers over the actual turnstile number. Again, we could provide over 100 articles proving this fact.

At any rate, here were Illinois actual vs. announced attendance numbers. Enjoy.

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2...seats.html

Sellout ... but plenty of empty seats

Tue, 10/04/2016 - 7:00am | Jeff D'Alessio

Officially, Illinois’ Sept. 10 night game against North Carolina went down as the first “sellout” at Memorial Stadium since Michigan came to town in 2011. But the actual turnstile count — different than the tickets-distributed number you’ll hear read over the PA system at any major college football stadium — reveals that the bandwagon still has seats available:

Sept. 3: Murray State

Announced: 48,644

Actual: 32,630

Sept. 10: North Carolina

Announced: 60,670

Actual: 47,877*

Sept. 17: Western Michigan

Announced: 40,954 '

Acutal: 25,601

* — The turnstile count for the UNC game beat the same figure for the best-attended home game of 2015 — Ohio State, on Nov. 14 — by 5,671 fans.

Ok, well since you used the Illinois example, the difference percentages were 49%, 25%, and 56% respectively. Actual vs Announced.

The last USF game was a 76% difference (17K vs 30K announced)

No one is doubting that other schools do this; we're simply saying that USF does this to an extent only really seen as places like EMU.

Not sure how you arrived at your numbers. But I decided to compare USF to those numbers Illinois reported
Actual attendance/ Announced attendance
Illinois
67.1%, 80.6%, 62.5%
USF
62.9%, 75.4%,85.1%,54.6%
Except for the last game which was impacted by hurticane. Please tell me how are USF's numbers that different from Illimois?

(10-14-2016 03:59 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(10-14-2016 03:33 PM)The Knight Time Wrote:  

(10-14-2016 12:27 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Recently there was a thread about USF attendance. USF is the only school among 128 FBS schools that releases announced attendance (what everyone else, all other 127 FBS programs, releases on a week to week basis), AND ALSO has an actual turnstile number given (none of the other 127 FBS programs have this number given on a week to week basis, mainly due to playing in OCS's, but also other reasons. This is because USF plays in a public stadium and the actual figures are released by the Tampa Sports Authority. So, naturally, some feel USF "fudges" announced attendance numbers more than others. This notion is a lie. All announced attendance numbers are tickets distributed, not actual turnstile. I posted about 10+ articles to this fact, and honestly, I could have posted 100. Your school is not unique. Every team in every major sport uses announced/tickets distributed, which is significantly more than who actually attends, in every case. And, that's true, whether you are talking about NCAAF, MLB, NFL, NBA, and NHL, to minor league sports. In every single case where a study has been done, the announced figure is always higher, and usually significantly so, than an actual number.

On a few occasions, local beat writers for NCAA football teams (other than USF) were able to get actual numbers. Kentucky, Memphis, and UConn come to mind. And in every single case the actual turnstile number was significantly less than the announced attendance. Your school is not special. Everyone uses an announced number, and not an actual number.

Recently, a writer was able to obtain an actual number for Illinois football games this year (to my knowledge the only other program that had announced vs. actual numbers released weekly this year for every game) other than a few spotty other numbers released. And, guess what, their actual is way less than announced! This is not unique to any program but done across the board. Every single time a writer was able to obtain an actual figure, it ALWAYS came out to significantly less than announced. Your school does this too. If you think they do not, then you simply do not understand how the process works. Every MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, NCAAF, and minor league team "pads" announced attendance numbers over the actual turnstile number. Again, we could provide over 100 articles proving this fact.

At any rate, here were Illinois actual vs. announced attendance numbers. Enjoy.

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2...seats.html

Sellout ... but plenty of empty seats

Tue, 10/04/2016 - 7:00am | Jeff D'Alessio

Officially, Illinois’ Sept. 10 night game against North Carolina went down as the first “sellout” at Memorial Stadium since Michigan came to town in 2011. But the actual turnstile count — different than the tickets-distributed number you’ll hear read over the PA system at any major college football stadium — reveals that the bandwagon still has seats available:

Sept. 3: Murray State

Announced: 48,644

Actual: 32,630

Sept. 10: North Carolina

Announced: 60,670

Actual: 47,877*

Sept. 17: Western Michigan

Announced: 40,954 '

Acutal: 25,601

* — The turnstile count for the UNC game beat the same figure for the best-attended home game of 2015 — Ohio State, on Nov. 14 — by 5,671 fans.

Ok, well since you used the Illinois example, the difference percentages were 49%, 25%, and 56% respectively. Actual vs Announced.

The last USF game was a 76% difference (17K vs 30K announced)

No one is doubting that other schools do this; we're simply saying that USF does this to an extent only really seen as places like EMU.

Of course you picked the hurricane game to compare. Don't think Illinois had one of those at their games. Compare the previous three home games and you won't get that huge percentage, of course it then wouldn't support your agenda

More the reason not to take any of this immature attendance chest pounding seriously. Doesn't picking the hurricane game as a discussion topic demonstrate how childish this whole topic is? I don't mean to be too critical of knight time because he's not the one that normally starts this circus.

All of the universities that we follow have warts and issues or they be in the SEC, ACC, etc. Regularly spending time to research and point fingers at others' flaws only makes the poster look childish and small, plus it's is comparable to jr high girls making fun of a girl that has 2 more pimples.

I think that it is understandable that many of us may do it on rare occasions when we get frustrated with a topic, many times just to "shut up" one poster/group; but this topic has a repetitive pattern from the same small group of kids.

I'll just add that I don't personally understand why anyone would have a problem with universities reporting paid attendance. That's their issue, not mine or yours. :)