(01-15-2017 04:21 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  UCSD's referendum expires in September 2018. If they do not join any D1 conference by then, the fee increases are overturned and the vote itself becomes null and void. They would remain in D2 with no guarantee the next student vote will pass. They still have time but the clock's ticking.

Their wait could end tomorrow or any day before September 17th, 2018 with a Big West invite. A poster on the message boards supposedly in the know said it's a done deal that they will be voted in this spring. I don't buy it. The negatives to bringing in UCSD by themselves are not insignificant.

If the BW decides to pass on them and the WAC offers, I have no idea what they will do.

This is just how I see things from a distance: but the Big West Conference seems like the Horizon --- a conference that is honestly "too good" to be taking D-2 schools immediately.

I mention the Horizon because Northern Kentucky --- another successful school at the D-2 level --- had to hang out in the Atlantic Sun for awhile before their 4-year transition period neared its end. Once that time came, NKU got the Horizon offer. That's a good home for them, and they'll likely be there for quite awhile.

UCSD, IMO, should go to the WAC. Play out their transition years there. The Big West offer likely would come after that. But they do have to "pay their dues", as it is, first.

Another advantage of waiting on UCSD --- the Big West can wait to see who the ideal 11th/12th schools to also invite are. Is it NMSU? What happens with their football? Or is it Grand Canyon? Even perhaps Bakersfield? The passage of time helps answer those questions.

(01-15-2017 04:21 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  UCSD's referendum expires in September 2018. If they do not join any D1 conference by then, the fee increases are overturned and the vote itself becomes null and void. They would remain in D2 with no guarantee the next student vote will pass. They still have time but the clock's ticking.

Their wait could end tomorrow or any day before September 17th, 2018 with a Big West invite. A poster on the message boards supposedly in the know said it's a done deal that they will be voted in this spring. I don't buy it. The negatives to bringing in UCSD by themselves are not insignificant.

If the BW decides to pass on them and the WAC offers, I have no idea what they will do.

Well....they would have to be by themselves. UCSD would be the 10th team and there is no reason to expand past that for a 1 bid conference with no TV $$. Actually there is no reason for the Big West to expand really, they would only need to take them to for even scheduling.

Maybe the Big West will tell UC San Diego to join the WAC and when their transition is complete, they will invite them to the conference along with New Mexico St. (who will possibly have dropped football by then) and CSU Bakersfield.

I remember a time when schools had to pay their dues in the Big West before applying to the WAC. My how the times have changed!

(01-15-2017 08:21 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:21 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  UCSD's referendum expires in September 2018. If they do not join any D1 conference by then, the fee increases are overturned and the vote itself becomes null and void. They would remain in D2 with no guarantee the next student vote will pass. They still have time but the clock's ticking.

Their wait could end tomorrow or any day before September 17th, 2018 with a Big West invite. A poster on the message boards supposedly in the know said it's a done deal that they will be voted in this spring. I don't buy it. The negatives to bringing in UCSD by themselves are not insignificant.

If the BW decides to pass on them and the WAC offers, I have no idea what they will do.

Well....they would have to be by themselves. UCSD would be the 10th team and there is no reason to expand past that for a 1 bid conference with no TV $$. Actually there is no reason for the Big West to expand really, they would only need to take them to for even scheduling.

UC Davis and Cal Poly want to be FBS down the road. In order to do that, they have to leave. The Big West would be wise to go to 10 now, so the lowest they would fall to would be 8.

(01-15-2017 06:34 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I don't have any inside info but I believe UCSD will be invited to join the Big West well before the September 2018 deadline. School presidents make these decisions, not fans, and as a candidate to round out the conference membership at 10 UCSD ticks all the boxes from a Big West president's perspective: familiarity, outstanding world-class academics, geographic proximity, sufficient financial resources thanks to the student fee increase, and adequate facilities already in place. I can't imagine the short-term effect on the Big West's basketball RPI being a significant consideration.

As for NMSU, I don't believe the Big West will add them without a travel partner and unfortunately for the Aggies there's no one to pair up with that would be acceptable to the conference. Grand Canyon is ideally located to play the role but the Big West would never invite a for-profit school.

While a presence in the San Diego market would be nice, UCSD by themselves is most likely deadweight for years to come, another mouth to feed. Having yet another member in SoCal does nothing to increase regional exposure, something the conference desperately needs. Then there's the ever precious Cal State - UC balance to consider.

I know you are concerned about keeping Hawaii's travel to a minimum but we need a second member outside California. Ironically, further expansion to 12 will reduce the amount of travel subs Hawaii pays each year.

For the second straight year there are zero Big West home games on Fox Sports and nothing guaranteed on ESPNU/2 for Hawaii, UCSB, Cal Poly or UC Davis. The opportunities will shrink further if UCSD is added alone. At least New Mexico State has a strong basketball tradition to provide some balance there.

(01-16-2017 12:05 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 06:34 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I don't have any inside info but I believe UCSD will be invited to join the Big West well before the September 2018 deadline. School presidents make these decisions, not fans, and as a candidate to round out the conference membership at 10 UCSD ticks all the boxes from a Big West president's perspective: familiarity, outstanding world-class academics, geographic proximity, sufficient financial resources thanks to the student fee increase, and adequate facilities already in place. I can't imagine the short-term effect on the Big West's basketball RPI being a significant consideration.

As for NMSU, I don't believe the Big West will add them without a travel partner and unfortunately for the Aggies there's no one to pair up with that would be acceptable to the conference. Grand Canyon is ideally located to play the role but the Big West would never invite a for-profit school.

While a presence in the San Diego market would be nice, UCSD by themselves is most likely deadweight for years to come, another mouth to feed. Having yet another member in SoCal does nothing to increase regional exposure, something the conference desperately needs. Then there's the ever precious Cal State - UC balance to consider.

I know you are concerned about keeping Hawaii's travel to a minimum but we need a second member outside California. Ironically, further expansion to 12 will reduce the amount of travel subs Hawaii pays each year.

For the second straight year there are zero Big West home games on Fox Sports and nothing guaranteed on ESPNU/2 for Hawaii, UCSB, Cal Poly or UC Davis. The opportunities will shrink further if UCSD is added alone. At least New Mexico State has a strong basketball tradition to provide some balance there.

So NMSU and GCU will not be getting travel subsidies to Hawaii, and the Big West will dilute further it's NCAA PAYMENTS? Why would any WAC school want to join for increased cost and reduced PAYMENTS?

NMSU is not trying to poach California kids for reduced tuition now are they? Or if they are and wanting to massively grow enrollment, that would be the only reason, but that doesn't seem to be NNSU's goal. If an FBS conference later opens up, they will be gone. Why would the Big West waste time and energy on them, when a much better school than exists in the BW are wanting membership and is just a short bus drive away? I have to believe BW Presidents have a brain.

Much of of the Big West has been deadweights: Fullerton St, UC Riverside, UC Davis, Northridge St, and UC Irvine, Cal Poly and Long Beach St have not done much. The Big West is not getting two bids. The last time their was a non travel paying non-UC, non -CSU school, they left because they couldn't stand the circle jerking of the California public schools.

Big West have called D2 schools up from the past. That is how Cal.-Davis and Cal.-Poly got invited.

I think one argument for the WAC to take Cal Baptist, is to try to create some geographic core that they can try to build a conference that has some semblance of cohesion. If they can convince UCSD to put up with Cal Baptist and Grand Canyon Education, Inc. that would help. There are more D2 schools in California that MIGHT be viable for such a conference.

The WAC's future isn't in trying to bolster UMKC, UT-RGV, and Chicago State (none of whom are within 500 miles of each other, or of any viable candidate for league membership). The WAC would also do well to operate on the assumption that NMSU is going to bail.

(01-15-2017 08:06 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:21 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  UCSD's referendum expires in September 2018. If they do not join any D1 conference by then, the fee increases are overturned and the vote itself becomes null and void. They would remain in D2 with no guarantee the next student vote will pass. They still have time but the clock's ticking.

Their wait could end tomorrow or any day before September 17th, 2018 with a Big West invite. A poster on the message boards supposedly in the know said it's a done deal that they will be voted in this spring. I don't buy it. The negatives to bringing in UCSD by themselves are not insignificant.

If the BW decides to pass on them and the WAC offers, I have no idea what they will do.

This is just how I see things from a distance: but the Big West Conference seems like the Horizon --- a conference that is honestly "too good" to be taking D-2 schools immediately.

I mention the Horizon because Northern Kentucky --- another successful school at the D-2 level --- had to hang out in the Atlantic Sun for awhile before their 4-year transition period neared its end. Once that time came, NKU got the Horizon offer. That's a good home for them, and they'll likely be there for quite awhile.

UCSD, IMO, should go to the WAC. Play out their transition years there. The Big West offer likely would come after that. But they do have to "pay their dues", as it is, first.

Another advantage of waiting on UCSD --- the Big West can wait to see who the ideal 11th/12th schools to also invite are. Is it NMSU? What happens with their football? Or is it Grand Canyon? Even perhaps Bakersfield? The passage of time helps answer those questions.

UCSD isn't a normal Division II move-up, though. As others have noted, it would be the most academically prestigious school in the Big West, it fits in perfectly geographically, it's located in a large market, and it's going to be well-funded.

Once again, many people are not thinking like university presidents here. In their world, UCSD is a *powerhouse* academic institution. They're not merely good - they're a legit *powerhouse*. When it comes to public universities, they're right on the next tier below the very top level of Berkeley/Michigan/UCLA/UVA. I can't imagine that the Big West presidents would give two craps about what occurs to New Mexico State or any other school outside of the state of California or Hawaii (and especially a for-profit school like GCU).

(01-16-2017 12:46 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 08:06 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 04:21 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  UCSD's referendum expires in September 2018. If they do not join any D1 conference by then, the fee increases are overturned and the vote itself becomes null and void. They would remain in D2 with no guarantee the next student vote will pass. They still have time but the clock's ticking.

Their wait could end tomorrow or any day before September 17th, 2018 with a Big West invite. A poster on the message boards supposedly in the know said it's a done deal that they will be voted in this spring. I don't buy it. The negatives to bringing in UCSD by themselves are not insignificant.

If the BW decides to pass on them and the WAC offers, I have no idea what they will do.

This is just how I see things from a distance: but the Big West Conference seems like the Horizon --- a conference that is honestly "too good" to be taking D-2 schools immediately.

I mention the Horizon because Northern Kentucky --- another successful school at the D-2 level --- had to hang out in the Atlantic Sun for awhile before their 4-year transition period neared its end. Once that time came, NKU got the Horizon offer. That's a good home for them, and they'll likely be there for quite awhile.

UCSD, IMO, should go to the WAC. Play out their transition years there. The Big West offer likely would come after that. But they do have to "pay their dues", as it is, first.

Another advantage of waiting on UCSD --- the Big West can wait to see who the ideal 11th/12th schools to also invite are. Is it NMSU? What happens with their football? Or is it Grand Canyon? Even perhaps Bakersfield? The passage of time helps answer those questions.

UCSD isn't a normal Division II move-up, though. As others have noted, it would be the most academically prestigious school in the Big West, it fits in perfectly geographically, it's located in a large market, and it's going to be well-funded.

Once again, many people are not thinking like university presidents here. In their world, UCSD is a *powerhouse* academic institution. They're not merely good - they're a legit *powerhouse*. When it comes to public universities, they're right on the next tier below the very top level of Berkeley/Michigan/UCLA/UVA. I can't imagine that the Big West presidents would give two craps about what occurs to New Mexico State or any other school outside of the state of California or Hawaii (and especially a for-profit school like GCU).

I think it's a bit more politically prickly, though. There could definitely be some resistance to a UC school if one of the CSU members couldn't find similar support. Yeah, UCSD is a great school...well, so is UCSB, UCD, UCI, and Cal-Poly isn't a slouch, either. It's not like the Big West is loaded with regional or directional schools...both systems are pretty darn good academically. It's just that UCal is the one that's research-centered in its mission and more competitive because of it.

My understanding is CSUB wanted the Big West, but the Big West kind of made them wait. I can't see the doors flinging open for UCSD...why, just because the other half of the conference will gush profusely over them, or passive-aggressively bully the Cal State schools into flushing out their rationale for not wanting them?

The Big West should really consider expanding its footprint and shoving the travel subsidy thing up its butt. I look at what's there in the WAC or was, and I don't get why these guys couldn't be in Seattle and/or Denver at this point. It really is in a conference's best interest, if football isn't offered or fielded by the majority of its members, to have both public and private institutions within its membership.

(01-15-2017 09:02 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Could Northern Colorado be in play for the WAC? If the MVFC is North Dakota's next destination, Northern Colorado going to the WAC and MVFC puts the WAC, Big Sky, Summit, and MVFC all at even numbers.

The MVFC could even split in half and pickup a second automatic bid:

Summit Football - UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, WIU, UNC
Valley Football - MSU, Ill St, So Ill, Ind St, UNI, YSU

Has a much better chance of happening than the mythical BSC/WAC swap though I doubt UNC would go to the WAC. I could see them in the SLC for all sports. They could revive old rivalries and hook up with DU.

Do UC Davis and Cal Poly have a desire for FBS football? Is they did, I'd say add NMSU, Sacramento St, and UCSD as members to reach 12 Olympic members. If the WAC has a FBS golden ticket then so should the Big West because they sponsored FBS (then called D-Ia) until 2000.

The Big West then uses their leverage to make Hawaii join their FBS league a long with NMSU, and Sacramento St. Idaho, Montana, and Montana St are admitted as FB affiliates. Having Hawaii, NMSU, and Idaho as active FBS schools and not transitioning schools eases the process of making schedules that fit the NCAA criteria for transitioning schools.

(01-16-2017 06:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Do UC Davis and Cal Poly have a desire for FBS football? Is they did, I'd say add NMSU, Sacramento St, and UCSD as members to reach 12 Olympic members. If the WAC has a FBS golden ticket then so should the Big West because they sponsored FBS (then called D-Ia) until 2000.

The Big West then uses their leverage to make Hawaii join their FBS league a long with NMSU, and Sacramento St. Idaho, Montana, and Montana St are admitted as FB affiliates. Having Hawaii, NMSU, and Idaho as active FBS schools and not transitioning schools eases the process of making schedules that fit the NCAA criteria for transitioning schools.

Doesn't work. Only full conference members count toward the minimum 8 members playing FBS football to be considered an FBS conference. Football affiliates don't count. And there's no way the current Big West members would want to bring Idaho and the Montanas into the conference for all sports.

(01-16-2017 03:43 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 09:02 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Could Northern Colorado be in play for the WAC? If the MVFC is North Dakota's next destination, Northern Colorado going to the WAC and MVFC puts the WAC, Big Sky, Summit, and MVFC all at even numbers.

The MVFC could even split in half and pickup a second automatic bid:

Summit Football - UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, WIU, UNC
Valley Football - MSU, Ill St, So Ill, Ind St, UNI, YSU

Has a much better chance of happening than the mythical BSC/WAC swap though I doubt UNC would go to the WAC. I could see them in the SLC for all sports. They could revive old rivalries and hook up with DU.

The XDSU's would scream bloody murder at an MVFC split, as they prefer the MVFC much more than the Slummit. The XDSU's seem to think the MVFC sees them as the heir replacements for Wichita St and Mo St. For that reason, UND has way too many smart people to ever be interested in the Slummit. NDSU has been out to screw our fb team since day one.

I do not think Cal. Baptist is the only school being named to be invited from D2. I think the WAC will extend an invite for a school for the 2017-2018 season. You do not know of Chicago State to survive by this fall. You need a school to join next fall. By the 2018-2019 season when Cal. Baptist moves up? The team invited for this fall would be in their second year, and in a full schedule for playing D1 schools. Lets say they invite Dixie State, Colorado Mesa, Colorado State-Pueblo or West Texas A&M? Those schools could be an affiliate to the Big Sky for football only.

(01-16-2017 06:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Do UC Davis and Cal Poly have a desire for FBS football? Is they did, I'd say add NMSU, Sacramento St, and UCSD as members to reach 12 Olympic members. If the WAC has a FBS golden ticket then so should the Big West because they sponsored FBS (then called D-Ia) until 2000.

The Big West then uses their leverage to make Hawaii join their FBS league a long with NMSU, and Sacramento St. Idaho, Montana, and Montana St are admitted as FB affiliates. Having Hawaii, NMSU, and Idaho as active FBS schools and not transitioning schools eases the process of making schedules that fit the NCAA criteria for transitioning schools.

UC Davis and Cal Poly need stadium expansions for FBS to work. Both are one the books, but probably a decade awat from happening. Cal Poly has Spanos as a benefactor, so if he sells the Chargers for a couple billion, that would go far in a expanded Mustang stadium.

Cal State Bakersfield moved up to Division 1 without a conference invitation and thought they would automatically be admitted by the Big West just because they're a Cal State. They've been shunned for over a decade due to the perception they don't improve basketball or other sports, and they would also have the lowest student enrollment in the conference. CSUB was an independent for several years before the WAC called.

(01-17-2017 01:14 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Cal State Bakersfield moved up to Division 1 without a conference invitation and thought they would automatically be admitted by the Big West just because they're a Cal State. They've been shunned for over a decade due to the perception they don't improve basketball or other sports, and they would also have the lowest student enrollment in the conference. CSUB was an independent for several years before the WAC called.

Was it Cal. State-Bakersfield's men's basketball team made the big dance of 68 last year by winning the WAC title?

Just to stir the pot...

Cal Baptist's president is widely known to be ambitious and sports crazy. The only truly "like" school in the WAC is Seattle U (or GCU if they find a way to go non-profit). They don't want to be Cal State Bakersfield. They want to be Pepperdine or Loyola Marymount.

They want to be in the WCC.

And they want Gonzaga coming to their new arena.