Missouri Valley

Missouri State
North Dakota
North Dakota State
Northern Iowa
South Dakota
South Dakota State

Eastern Illinois
Illinois State
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Youngstown State

Horizon League

Cleveland State
IPFW
IUPUI
Northern Kentucky
Oakland
Wright State

Illinois-Chicago
Missouri-Kansas City
Nebraska-Omaha
Southern Illinois-Edwardsville
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Summit

Bradley
Detroit
Denver
Drake
Evansville
Loyola-Chicago
Oral Roberts
St. Louis
Valparaiso

When Creighton left I said the smart play for the Valley would be to try to find some mix of 8/9 MAC and Sun Belt schools that would join the league and make it an FBS league with the MVFC remaining FCS.

If Wichita leaves that's off the table. They can get just as good hoops where they are now, no need to move.

History says, the MVC will pick a public to keep the balance.

Missouri State had they been willing to move a year or two ago, had a spot in the Sun Belt. Now I don't see an easy pick to balance them out and go to a 12/14 alignment and Mo State isn't a strong enough brand that the Sun Belt would go to an 11/13 alignment most likely.

The MVC will look at the same schools they did last time. At this point, I don't think the public/private balance will be as strong as some think, but I could be wrong. Mostly, they need good basketball regardless of anything else. But they may also consider location like they did with Loyola.

UIC and Valpo will once again be considered because of the Chicago factor.

UMKC will be considered because it's KC. Losing Creighton and Wichita loses a lot of KC relevance.

Omaha will get a look because it has some Valley ties because of Creighton.

Denver was asked to add a sport or two and declined. Without Wichita there's no need to go that far west.

Nobody really wants ORU

SIU-E could be considered because of how close they are to STL.

The MVC could look at a Little Rock to give MSU a travel partner since they'd have lost Wichita.

Belmont has no interest. The MVC tried that previously.

There won't be any sort of mass realignment between the MVC and Summit or Horizon. The MVC may lose a couple of others if they can find homes. UNI, MSU and Illinois State have all explored options in the past. But the CFP discourages adds to conferences which will most likely prevent them from attaining membership in the MAC or Belt.

Wichita leaves the options will be add:
1) UMKC, Kansas City tv market and travel partner for Missouri State.
2) UIC to double down on Chicago.

If UIC was gone, maybe a switcheroo with Horizon would be the best for the Summit League. Green Bay and Milwaukee for IUPUI and IPFW.

(03-08-2017 09:18 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  When Creighton left I said the smart play for the Valley would be to try to find some mix of 8/9 MAC and Sun Belt schools that would join the league and make it an FBS league with the MVFC remaining FCS.

If Wichita leaves that's off the table. They can get just as good hoops where they are now, no need to move.

History says, the MVC will pick a public to keep the balance.

They will take UMKC which is not going to make UNI, or Illinois State very happy. WSU leaving the MVC, and the privates voting to add public/non-fb playing UMKC may be the death of the conference as you know it.

I like NoDak's idea but personally I think a better option would be to bring the MVC FB schools into the Summit while dropping the IPFW, IUPUI, ORU and the MVFC drop YSU in FB. Missouri State may be the biggest objector to the idea which is understandable. If they can pull an SBC invite more power to them. Otherwise they would be forced to come along, with no other place to go.

SDSU - FB
NDSU - FB
UND - FB
USD - FB
UNI - FB
Ill State - FB
Ind State - FB
Missouri State - FB
SIU - FB
WIU - FB

Omaha - non-FB
Denver - non-FB

St. Louis is the best replacement bar none. Although, I only see SLU being interested if Dayton and/or VCU leave the A10.

In that scenario, the A10 could preemptively strike and invite Loyola to keep SLU.

What about former MVC member, Detroit Mercy?

(03-08-2017 06:00 AM)zibby Wrote:  Missouri Valley

Missouri State
North Dakota
North Dakota State
Northern Iowa
South Dakota
South Dakota State

Eastern Illinois
Illinois State
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Youngstown State

Horizon League

Cleveland State
IPFW
IUPUI
Northern Kentucky
Oakland
Wright State

Illinois-Chicago
Missouri-Kansas City
Nebraska-Omaha
Southern Illinois-Edwardsville
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Summit

Bradley
Detroit
Denver
Drake
Evansville
Loyola-Chicago
Oral Roberts
St. Louis
Valparaiso

Where the Valley goes, Drake goes. If this all goes down I think it will be a pretty major shakeup and will force the hand of MoState and ISUr to go FBS. MoState to the Sun Belt and Illinois state to the MAC. The MVC will basically become an all private schools conference or Big East Lite.

Drake
Bradley
Loyala Chicago
Evansville
Detroit
Valpo
St Louis
Belmont

(03-08-2017 09:18 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Missouri State had they been willing to move a year or two ago, had a spot in the Sun Belt. Now I don't see an easy pick to balance them out and go to a 12/14 alignment and Mo State isn't a strong enough brand that the Sun Belt would go to an 11/13 alignment most likely.

Add MoSt in the west and JMU in the east. Now with Liberty moving to FBS that might give JMU the itch to take any offer to not get left behind.

(03-08-2017 11:34 AM)esayem Wrote:  St. Louis is the best replacement bar none. Although, I only see SLU being interested if Dayton and/or VCU leave the A10.

In that scenario, the A10 could preemptively strike and invite Loyola to keep SLU.

What about former MVC member, Detroit Mercy?

A-10 > MVC > Summit in the conference realignment game.

Reminder that s**t ALWAYS runs downhill in conference realignment. We have seen many delusions of grandeur over the years from leagues lower on the pecking order hoping that they can jump the ones just ahead of them when there's conference shuffling... and the lower pecking leagues ALWAYS get smacked right in the face with poaching by those leagues just ahead of them that they were dreaming of jumping. S**T ALWAYS RUNS DOWNHILL IN CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT. It can't be emphasized enough.

As a result, SLU sure as heck isn't going to move from the A-10 to the MVC even if both Dayton and VCU left and, in turn, no one is leaving the MVC for the Summit. The only league that SLU would move to is the Big East.

(03-08-2017 11:50 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 11:34 AM)esayem Wrote:  St. Louis is the best replacement bar none. Although, I only see SLU being interested if Dayton and/or VCU leave the A10.

In that scenario, the A10 could preemptively strike and invite Loyola to keep SLU.

What about former MVC member, Detroit Mercy?

A-10 > MVC > Summit in the conference realignment game.

Reminder that s**t ALWAYS runs downhill in conference realignment. We have seen many delusions of grandeur over the years from leagues lower on the pecking order hoping that they can jump the ones just ahead of them when there's conference shuffling... and the lower pecking leagues ALWAYS get smacked right in the face with poaching by those leagues just ahead of them that they were dreaming of jumping. S**T ALWAYS RUNS DOWNHILL IN CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT. It can't be emphasized enough.

As a result, SLU sure as heck isn't going to move from the A-10 to the MVC even if both Dayton and VCU left and, in turn, no one is leaving the MVC for the Summit. The only league that SLU would move to is the Big East.

At some point, the MVC won't be a cash cow, as they have been with Wichita St's Final Four run. It will lose tv value with WSU gone too. It's already a relic of bygone days when it had Memphis, Tulsa, Louisville, Houston etc. It's fall will just be more complete like the Southern. Money is what elevates a conference now, and cash flow will be almost nil.

Reality check: MVC schools won't be interested in these Summit fantasies. The people who think these are good ideas or realistic are conveniently from the Summit. None are looking to join a Dakota-centric league. Would they be interested in a NDSU or perhaps SDSU joining their league? Perhaps. But that's as far as it goes.

(03-08-2017 11:50 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 11:34 AM)esayem Wrote:  St. Louis is the best replacement bar none. Although, I only see SLU being interested if Dayton and/or VCU leave the A10.

In that scenario, the A10 could preemptively strike and invite Loyola to keep SLU.

What about former MVC member, Detroit Mercy?

A-10 > MVC > Summit in the conference realignment game.

Reminder that s**t ALWAYS runs downhill in conference realignment. We have seen many delusions of grandeur over the years from leagues lower on the pecking order hoping that they can jump the ones just ahead of them when there's conference shuffling... and the lower pecking leagues ALWAYS get smacked right in the face with poaching by those leagues just ahead of them that they were dreaming of jumping. S**T ALWAYS RUNS DOWNHILL IN CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT. It can't be emphasized enough.

As a result, SLU sure as heck isn't going to move from the A-10 to the MVC even if both Dayton and VCU left and, in turn, no one is leaving the MVC for the Summit. The only league that SLU would move to is the Big East.

You're preaching to the choir; I have consistently advocated that an A10 spearheaded by St. Joe's, UMass, GWU, and RIU will still be a multi-bid conference. The A10 without VCU and Dayton would be hurt, but not destroyed. Although, the MVC would be that much closer, even without Wichita. That's why I think the A10 would appease SLU by inviting Loyola as a regional replacement for Dayton (although I would advise them to stay at 12 and focus on strengthening their core). UMass has made no illusions that it's out that door ASAP.

The problem is, there just aren't that many good replacements in the CAA or MAAC. The marquee mid-majors like VCU, GMU, Butler, and Davidson have all been plucked. I could see the A10 having interest in Siena, W&M, and maybe Belmont or CofC, but those programs hardly fill the void of Dayton or VCU.

(03-07-2017 11:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  IUPUI has at least upgraded it's bb facilities and offers the Indianapolis area for student recruiting and it's research is topnotch, but research capability doesn't concern most MVC schools.

And regardless, IUPUI is no longer a research powerhouse. The Univ of Indiana reorganized to put all the medical/health science research that was previously under IUPUI to now be under IU Bloomington. And that's probably correct.

(03-08-2017 12:16 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Illinois-Chicago is the biggest and best school, and the best situated long term. Wright State was a surprise performer, so I place them 2nd. IUPUI, UMKC, UWM are way short of their potential. ORU and Valpo have decent support, but neither has a massive alumni base, and Valpo overlaps with LUC. Oakland is fine, but the upside is limited.

I think it's pretty obvious who is the top choice, UIC, not just for their sustainability but to double down on Chicago market and recruiting.

UIC is unquestionably the best school -- that's the University of Illinois' med school & health science research campus.

Valpo still gives you the "double down" in Chicago, though.

And it gives 5/5 private/public. Adding UIC would maintain the current 4/6 private/public.

(03-08-2017 10:10 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UIC and Valpo will once again be considered because of the Chicago factor.

UMKC will be considered because it's KC. Losing Creighton and Wichita loses a lot of KC relevance.

Omaha will get a look because it has some Valley ties because of Creighton.

Denver was asked to add a sport or two and declined. Without Wichita there's no need to go that far west.

Nobody really wants ORU

SIU-E could be considered because of how close they are to STL.

The MVC could look at a Little Rock to give MSU a travel partner since they'd have lost Wichita.

Belmont has no interest. The MVC tried that previously.

I noticed no mention of the Dakota schools.

GOOD!

The Dakota 4 belong in the Summit.

(03-08-2017 10:11 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  If UIC was gone, maybe a switcheroo with Horizon would be the best for the Summit League. Green Bay and Milwaukee for IUPUI and IPFW.

I'd take that for sure, but I don't think the Horizon or the UW schools would be interested. Right or wrong, I think perception is that Horizon is still a half-step above the Summit.

(03-08-2017 10:26 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  They will take UMKC which is not going to make UNI, or Illinois State very happy. WSU leaving the MVC, and the privates voting to add public/non-fb playing UMKC may be the death of the conference as you know it.

So why not Valpo, then?

(03-08-2017 11:34 AM)esayem Wrote:  St. Louis is the best replacement bar none. Although, I only see SLU being interested if Dayton and/or VCU leave the A10.

I agree it'd be the best, but one thing: SLU may still be holding onto the dream of getting a Big East invite. I think it believes it has to maintain the A10, for that sake.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-...conference

Here's a cool article about the MCC and the dwindling days of basketball independents. The current Big East's western wing is made up of many of these schools and St. Louis fits in for sure.

Why would Valpo want in? Minus WSU what does the MVC give Valpo they don't currently have?

Also, Valpo is private. The MVC has a habit of replacing public with public, private with private. It keeps the balance in tact making the school President's happy. If WSU leaves the MVC will go after a public institution. UMKC and Omaha would be #1 and #2.

(03-08-2017 12:39 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-07-2017 11:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  IUPUI has at least upgraded it's bb facilities and offers the Indianapolis area for student recruiting and it's research is topnotch, but research capability doesn't concern most MVC schools.

And regardless, IUPUI is no longer a research powerhouse. The Univ of Indiana reorganized to put all the medical/health science research that was previously under IUPUI to now be under IU Bloomington. And that's probably correct.

(03-08-2017 12:16 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Illinois-Chicago is the biggest and best school, and the best situated long term. Wright State was a surprise performer, so I place them 2nd. IUPUI, UMKC, UWM are way short of their potential. ORU and Valpo have decent support, but neither has a massive alumni base, and Valpo overlaps with LUC. Oakland is fine, but the upside is limited.

I think it's pretty obvious who is the top choice, UIC, not just for their sustainability but to double down on Chicago market and recruiting.

UIC is unquestionably the best school -- that's the University of Illinois' med school & health science research campus.

Valpo still gives you the "double down" in Chicago, though.

And it gives 5/5 private/public. Adding UIC would maintain the current 4/6 private/public.

(03-08-2017 10:10 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UIC and Valpo will once again be considered because of the Chicago factor.

UMKC will be considered because it's KC. Losing Creighton and Wichita loses a lot of KC relevance.

Omaha will get a look because it has some Valley ties because of Creighton.

Denver was asked to add a sport or two and declined. Without Wichita there's no need to go that far west.

Nobody really wants ORU

SIU-E could be considered because of how close they are to STL.

The MVC could look at a Little Rock to give MSU a travel partner since they'd have lost Wichita.

Belmont has no interest. The MVC tried that previously.

I noticed no mention of the Dakota schools.

GOOD!

The Dakota 4 belong in the Summit.

(03-08-2017 10:11 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  If UIC was gone, maybe a switcheroo with Horizon would be the best for the Summit League. Green Bay and Milwaukee for IUPUI and IPFW.

I'd take that for sure, but I don't think the Horizon or the UW schools would be interested. Right or wrong, I think perception is that Horizon is still a half-step above the Summit.

(03-08-2017 10:26 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  They will take UMKC which is not going to make UNI, or Illinois State very happy. WSU leaving the MVC, and the privates voting to add public/non-fb playing UMKC may be the death of the conference as you know it.

So why not Valpo, then?

(03-08-2017 11:34 AM)esayem Wrote:  St. Louis is the best replacement bar none. Although, I only see SLU being interested if Dayton and/or VCU leave the A10.

I agree it'd be the best, but one thing: SLU may still be holding onto the dream of getting a Big East invite. I think it believes it has to maintain the A10, for that sake.

(03-08-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Why would Valpo want in?

The MVC would still be better than the Horizon. Doubt you'll find many who disagree.

(03-08-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  It keeps the balance in tact

Adding Valpo would give 5 private/5 public. How is that not balanced?

(03-08-2017 12:18 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Reality check: MVC schools won't be interested in these Summit fantasies. The people who think these are good ideas or realistic are conveniently from the Summit. None are looking to join a Dakota-centric league. Would they be interested in a NDSU or perhaps SDSU joining their league? Perhaps. But that's as far as it goes.

Not a Summit fantasy, personally I could care less about the MVC with the exception of the FB playing MVFC schools. I've said it before and I'll say it again. SDSU is happy in the Summit. The conference has improved dramatically and with the addition of UND it has taken another step towards stability.

I have no interest being with Bradley, Drake, Evansville or Loyola. To be honest, even though we play them in FB I'm not that thrilled with MSU or SIU. They do little for me. I do care about UNI, Ill State and Indiana State and would like to see them stick around. I think the MVC minus Wichita is a conference in danger of falling off a cliff if a solid replacement isn't brought in. It will force UNI and Illinois State to begin looking at other options which may include FBS which means the MVFC is not stable and no longer as strong a FB league.

Minus WSU, UNI and Illinois State means the Horizon, and Summit are far stronger conferences.

FYI, neither ILL St or IND St are land-grants. Neither have agriculture. It's really just marketing/branding that they changed their names to ____ State U.

(03-08-2017 01:02 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Why would Valpo want in?

The MVC would still be better than the Horizon. Doubt you'll find many who disagree.

(03-08-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  It keeps the balance in tact

Adding Valpo would give 5 private/5 public. How is that not balanced?

Your right, but for whatever reason it seems they replace public with public and private with private. Could change, maybe this is the time.

You didn't answer the other question. Why would Valpo be interested? Take Wichita out of the MVC and what does the MVC have that the Horizon does not? UNI? How long do they stay? Valpo has a good thing going in the Horizon, I don't see them leaving unless it is for an upgrade and the MVC minus WSU is not an upgrade.

(03-08-2017 11:50 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 11:34 AM)esayem Wrote:  St. Louis is the best replacement bar none. Although, I only see SLU being interested if Dayton and/or VCU leave the A10.

In that scenario, the A10 could preemptively strike and invite Loyola to keep SLU.

What about former MVC member, Detroit Mercy?

A-10 > MVC > Summit in the conference realignment game.

Reminder that s**t ALWAYS runs downhill in conference realignment. We have seen many delusions of grandeur over the years from leagues lower on the pecking order hoping that they can jump the ones just ahead of them when there's conference shuffling... and the lower pecking leagues ALWAYS get smacked right in the face with poaching by those leagues just ahead of them that they were dreaming of jumping. S**T ALWAYS RUNS DOWNHILL IN CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT. It can't be emphasized enough.

As a result, SLU sure as heck isn't going to move from the A-10 to the MVC even if both Dayton and VCU left and, in turn, no one is leaving the MVC for the Summit. The only league that SLU would move to is the Big East.

If Xavier and Dayton were leaving the A10 (alleged to be under consideration by AAC) AND Wichita State were staying, I could see that dynamic shift but a MVC lacking both Creighton and Wichita State gone, I would expect SLU to tough it out.