(03-14-2017 10:09 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:56 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:51 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:18 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:14 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  I said on the US, dummy. First link... CA "court blocks bill". You think anybody here takes that fringe group seriously?

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I'm pretty sure all laws against homosexuality, abortion, and anti-evolution curriculum are backed by religious (and church) agenda. It's become so common in the US that no one bats an eye at it.

Fortunately, there are a lot of watch groups out there keeping the religious right in check, in accordance with the constitution.

nobody is trying to force religion on you. period.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

And yet I can't go a day without hearing people lament how the bible has been taken out of schools, how the U.S. is a christian nation, how this nation would never vote for an atheist or agnostic president, how I'm amoral and immoral for not believing in god, without public representatives trying to push public funding to supporting christian values and agendas.

I live in Alabama, I can't talk about politics or my faith, because both of them will brand me as an outcast and bring both derision and pity... and then try and convert me.

Yes, absolutely, without any shadow of a doubt, christianity is most certainly being pushed upon me, and I hate it more and more each time.

If you live in Alabama, and you can't talk about your faith, that tells me you're not a religious person at all.

The implication was "The lack of faith". And no, I can't talk about that.

So your premise is correct.

(03-14-2017 10:00 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:59 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:56 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:51 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:18 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  I'm pretty sure all laws against homosexuality, abortion, and anti-evolution curriculum are backed by religious (and church) agenda. It's become so common in the US that no one bats an eye at it.

Fortunately, there are a lot of watch groups out there keeping the religious right in check, in accordance with the constitution.

nobody is trying to force religion on you. period.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

And yet I can't go a day without hearing people lament how the bible has been taken out of schools, how the U.S. is a christian nation, how this nation would never vote for an atheist or agnostic president, how I'm amoral and immoral for not believing in god, without public representatives trying to push public funding to supporting christian values and agendas.

I live in Alabama, I can't talk about politics or my faith, because both of them will brand me as an outcast and bring both derision and pity... and then try and convert me.

Yes, absolutely, without any shadow of a doubt, christianity is most certainly being pushed upon me, and I hate it more and more each time.

MUH LAMENTATIONS!

And noone is pushing jack diddly squat on you. Funny how the person who is pushing false definitions of creationism, and doing a rope-a-dope on evolution, is griping about having christianity pushed on them. Yea, thats so believable.

You've already been proven wrong. Go back to your corner and play with your Play-doh.

Wow, what an intelligent and witty response. Tell me, oh enlightened one, where did you get your Master's Degree in Anthropology again?

(03-14-2017 10:12 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:00 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:59 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:56 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:51 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  nobody is trying to force religion on you. period.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

And yet I can't go a day without hearing people lament how the bible has been taken out of schools, how the U.S. is a christian nation, how this nation would never vote for an atheist or agnostic president, how I'm amoral and immoral for not believing in god, without public representatives trying to push public funding to supporting christian values and agendas.

I live in Alabama, I can't talk about politics or my faith, because both of them will brand me as an outcast and bring both derision and pity... and then try and convert me.

Yes, absolutely, without any shadow of a doubt, christianity is most certainly being pushed upon me, and I hate it more and more each time.

MUH LAMENTATIONS!

And noone is pushing jack diddly squat on you. Funny how the person who is pushing false definitions of creationism, and doing a rope-a-dope on evolution, is griping about having christianity pushed on them. Yea, thats so believable.

You've already been proven wrong. Go back to your corner and play with your Play-doh.

Wow, what an intelligent and witty response. Tell me, oh enlightened one, where did you get your Master's Degree in Anthropology again?

I've already made my well sourced case. He dismisses it and and deigns to simply mocking me (at least attempting to)

I've got nothing else to say, but if you want a more witty response i'll say, I won't let idiots drag me down to their level and then beat me with experience. Same goes for you it seems.

(03-14-2017 10:09 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:03 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Regardless, you don't punish people for not participating in an entirely elective decision. That's just not the way the law works.

lol, that's exactly what the NCAA and ACC are trying to do to NC.

Quote:The ACC has every right to not participate. They hold no leverage over the government of NC (apparently, or the law wouldn't have passed).

And according to your side women and children had no right to demand that bioloptical men not be allowed in their change rooms, locker rooms and restrooms.



Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Agree to disagree then. This seems to be the crux of the argument, how much leverage the NCAA and ACC has over the state of NC. I'll also add the intent of the ACC, whether it's to protect it's own image or merely to spite the gov't.

(03-14-2017 10:20 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Agree to disagree then. This seems to be the crux of the argument, how much leverage the NCAA and ACC has over the state of NC. I'll also add the intent of the ACC, whether it's to protect it's own image or merely to spite the gov't.

I want to step in on this one, mainly for the fact that I don't understand the ACC's end game here. The conference had to know that their moving the football championship game would be seen as support for the NCAA removing championship games. Unless the ACC the NCAA wouldn't touch the basketball regionals, I don't understand their logic.

It's also sort of a conundrum that the ACC has more or less punished 4 of it's members for being in the state of NC. How can the ACC maintain that having regular season games in NC is okay, yet a championship game or tournament isn't? Furthermore, that ACC didn't prevent it's members from playing in the Belk Bowl this past year and I would assume they aren't going to abandon their tie-in with that game.

(03-14-2017 10:17 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:12 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:00 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:59 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:56 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  And yet I can't go a day without hearing people lament how the bible has been taken out of schools, how the U.S. is a christian nation, how this nation would never vote for an atheist or agnostic president, how I'm amoral and immoral for not believing in god, without public representatives trying to push public funding to supporting christian values and agendas.

I live in Alabama, I can't talk about politics or my faith, because both of them will brand me as an outcast and bring both derision and pity... and then try and convert me.

Yes, absolutely, without any shadow of a doubt, christianity is most certainly being pushed upon me, and I hate it more and more each time.

MUH LAMENTATIONS!

And noone is pushing jack diddly squat on you. Funny how the person who is pushing false definitions of creationism, and doing a rope-a-dope on evolution, is griping about having christianity pushed on them. Yea, thats so believable.

You've already been proven wrong. Go back to your corner and play with your Play-doh.

Wow, what an intelligent and witty response. Tell me, oh enlightened one, where did you get your Master's Degree in Anthropology again?

I've already made my well sourced case. He dismisses it and and deigns to simply mocking me (at least attempting to)

I've got nothing else to say, but if you want a more witty response i'll say, I won't let idiots drag me down to their level and then beat me with experience. Same goes for you it seems.

I'm not mocking you. Its not mocking you to point out where you are wrong. And its not that your are ignorantly wrong. You are purposely pushing falsehoods because you want to try to rope-a-dope people into your thinking. You should KNOW better about what you are talking about, which simply tells me your are purposely trying to lie and deceive.

If your point is only substantiated by misrepresenting another view, your point is weak. And you are admitting its weak, because you wont allow your own view to stand on its own legs.

Then, you roll out the victim card. (Christianity is being pushed on me)

Weak, weak, weak.

Will be interesting to see what conclusions are made.

(03-14-2017 10:35 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:17 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:12 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:00 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:59 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  MUH LAMENTATIONS!

And noone is pushing jack diddly squat on you. Funny how the person who is pushing false definitions of creationism, and doing a rope-a-dope on evolution, is griping about having christianity pushed on them. Yea, thats so believable.

You've already been proven wrong. Go back to your corner and play with your Play-doh.

Wow, what an intelligent and witty response. Tell me, oh enlightened one, where did you get your Master's Degree in Anthropology again?

I've already made my well sourced case. He dismisses it and and deigns to simply mocking me (at least attempting to)

I've got nothing else to say, but if you want a more witty response i'll say, I won't let idiots drag me down to their level and then beat me with experience. Same goes for you it seems.

I'm not mocking you. Its not mocking you to point out where you are wrong.

You didn't say where I was wrong, you said that I was wrong. You haven't countered any of my points, you've simply dismissed them and claimed that I was wrong.

And its not that your are ignorantly wrong. You are purposely pushing falsehoods

Why are they false? What parts? According to whom? Do you have evidence to counter my claims?

because you want to try to rope-a-dope people into your thinking. You should KNOW better about what you are talking about, which simply tells me your are purposely trying to lie and deceive.

I don't want anything except to dispel the idea that opinions can be taken as fact. The statements I make are (beyond reasonable doubt) fact.

If your point is only substantiated by misrepresenting another view, your point is weak.

I'm not misrepresenting anything. It's not a viewpoint, these are definitions.

And you are admitting its weak, because you wont allow your own view to stand on its own legs.

I backed away from the argument, content to let my proof speak for itself, until I was roped back in based on attacks of character

Then, you roll out the victim card. (Christianity is being pushed on me)

This point had nothing to do with you, or this argument. It was in reference to another posters claim that Christianity is not pushed on the non-religious, which is, in my experience, demonstrably false.

Weak, weak, weak.

Anything else?

(03-14-2017 10:17 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:12 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:00 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:59 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:56 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  And yet I can't go a day without hearing people lament how the bible has been taken out of schools, how the U.S. is a christian nation, how this nation would never vote for an atheist or agnostic president, how I'm amoral and immoral for not believing in god, without public representatives trying to push public funding to supporting christian values and agendas.

I live in Alabama, I can't talk about politics or my faith, because both of them will brand me as an outcast and bring both derision and pity... and then try and convert me.

Yes, absolutely, without any shadow of a doubt, christianity is most certainly being pushed upon me, and I hate it more and more each time.

MUH LAMENTATIONS!

And noone is pushing jack diddly squat on you. Funny how the person who is pushing false definitions of creationism, and doing a rope-a-dope on evolution, is griping about having christianity pushed on them. Yea, thats so believable.

You've already been proven wrong. Go back to your corner and play with your Play-doh.

Wow, what an intelligent and witty response. Tell me, oh enlightened one, where did you get your Master's Degree in Anthropology again?

I've already made my well sourced case. He dismisses it and and deigns to simply mocking me (at least attempting to)

I've got nothing else to say, but if you want a more witty response i'll say, I won't let idiots drag me down to their level and then beat me with experience. Same goes for you it seems.

So no Master's degree in Anthropology? As I expected you're going full-Tom in Lazybrook. where you've been everywhere, done everything, and most importantly you know everything there is to know in the world. and the rest of of us need to get on our knees and kiss your feet for enlightening us simpletons with your worldly knowledge.

(03-14-2017 10:35 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:20 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Agree to disagree then. This seems to be the crux of the argument, how much leverage the NCAA and ACC has over the state of NC. I'll also add the intent of the ACC, whether it's to protect it's own image or merely to spite the gov't.

I want to step in on this one, mainly for the fact that I don't understand the ACC's end game here. The conference had to know that their moving the football championship game would be seen as support for the NCAA removing championship games. Unless the ACC the NCAA wouldn't touch the basketball regionals, I don't understand their logic.

It's also sort of a conundrum that the ACC has more or less punished 4 of it's members for being in the state of NC. How can the ACC maintain that having regular season games in NC is okay, yet a championship game or tournament isn't? Furthermore, that ACC didn't prevent it's members from playing in the Belk Bowl this past year and I would assume they aren't going to abandon their tie-in with that game.

Don't forget who controls academia. They probably just see this as another way to force an issue outside of the ballot box where they haven't been winning. Regarding the bowl and ACC tournament, yeah, totally hypocritical but bigger money makers for the ACC on the whole.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(03-14-2017 10:41 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:35 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:17 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:12 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:00 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  You've already been proven wrong. Go back to your corner and play with your Play-doh.

Wow, what an intelligent and witty response. Tell me, oh enlightened one, where did you get your Master's Degree in Anthropology again?

I've already made my well sourced case. He dismisses it and and deigns to simply mocking me (at least attempting to)

I've got nothing else to say, but if you want a more witty response i'll say, I won't let idiots drag me down to their level and then beat me with experience. Same goes for you it seems.

I'm not mocking you. Its not mocking you to point out where you are wrong.

You didn't say where I was wrong, you said that I was wrong. You haven't countered any of my points, you've simply dismissed them and claimed that I was wrong.

And its not that your are ignorantly wrong. You are purposely pushing falsehoods

Why are they false? What parts? According to whom? Do you have evidence to counter my claims?

because you want to try to rope-a-dope people into your thinking. You should KNOW better about what you are talking about, which simply tells me your are purposely trying to lie and deceive.

I don't want anything except to dispel the idea that opinions can be taken as fact. The statements I make are (beyond reasonable doubt) fact.

If your point is only substantiated by misrepresenting another view, your point is weak.

I'm not misrepresenting anything. It's not a viewpoint, these are definitions.

And you are admitting its weak, because you wont allow your own view to stand on its own legs.

I backed away from the argument, content to let my proof speak for itself, until I was roped back in based on attacks of character

Then, you roll out the victim card. (Christianity is being pushed on me)

This point had nothing to do with you, or this argument. It was in reference to another posters claim that Christianity is not pushed on the non-religious, which is, in my experience, demonstrably false.

Weak, weak, weak.

Anything else?

Tell me again what point you are trying to make, and I will deal with just that. you are all over the place now.

My original point (remember that, what we were originally talking about) is that creationism and evolution deal with two completely different time periods. You then, for whatever reason, injected ID, something I didnt even bring up.

So, are you saying evolution and creationism cover the same time periods, or not? Try to keep it to just that.

(03-14-2017 10:45 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:17 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:12 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:00 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 09:59 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  MUH LAMENTATIONS!

And noone is pushing jack diddly squat on you. Funny how the person who is pushing false definitions of creationism, and doing a rope-a-dope on evolution, is griping about having christianity pushed on them. Yea, thats so believable.

You've already been proven wrong. Go back to your corner and play with your Play-doh.

Wow, what an intelligent and witty response. Tell me, oh enlightened one, where did you get your Master's Degree in Anthropology again?

I've already made my well sourced case. He dismisses it and and deigns to simply mocking me (at least attempting to)

I've got nothing else to say, but if you want a more witty response i'll say, I won't let idiots drag me down to their level and then beat me with experience. Same goes for you it seems.

So no Master's degree in Anthropology? As I expected you're going full-Tom in Lazybrook. where you've been everywhere, done everything, and most importantly you know everything there is to know in the world. and the rest of of us need to get on our knees and kiss your feet for enlightening us simpletons with your worldly knowledge.

Right. So let me get this straight. I'm not allowed to have a differing opinion simply because I don't hold a specialized degree on the subject, or all governing experience in the matter.

Completely unrelated, what's your opinion on Trump (the businessman) as President of the United States, Rick Perry (the former governor of Texas) as Head of the Department of Energy, Scott Pruitt as head of the EPA, and Betsy DeVos as head of the Department of Education?

Back to the subject, I assume you are claiming you have a Master's in Anthropology? (not that that has much to do with Evolution to be honest)

Myself, I have a degree in Aerospace Engineering, with specializations in Aerospace Materials, Systems Engineering, and Operations Management... but that's beside the point.

Interesting article.

http://www.livescience.com/963-lags-worl...ution.html

(03-14-2017 10:50 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:41 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:35 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:17 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:12 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  Wow, what an intelligent and witty response. Tell me, oh enlightened one, where did you get your Master's Degree in Anthropology again?

I've already made my well sourced case. He dismisses it and and deigns to simply mocking me (at least attempting to)

I've got nothing else to say, but if you want a more witty response i'll say, I won't let idiots drag me down to their level and then beat me with experience. Same goes for you it seems.

I'm not mocking you. Its not mocking you to point out where you are wrong.

You didn't say where I was wrong, you said that I was wrong. You haven't countered any of my points, you've simply dismissed them and claimed that I was wrong.

And its not that your are ignorantly wrong. You are purposely pushing falsehoods

Why are they false? What parts? According to whom? Do you have evidence to counter my claims?

because you want to try to rope-a-dope people into your thinking. You should KNOW better about what you are talking about, which simply tells me your are purposely trying to lie and deceive.

I don't want anything except to dispel the idea that opinions can be taken as fact. The statements I make are (beyond reasonable doubt) fact.

If your point is only substantiated by misrepresenting another view, your point is weak.

I'm not misrepresenting anything. It's not a viewpoint, these are definitions.

And you are admitting its weak, because you wont allow your own view to stand on its own legs.

I backed away from the argument, content to let my proof speak for itself, until I was roped back in based on attacks of character

Then, you roll out the victim card. (Christianity is being pushed on me)

This point had nothing to do with you, or this argument. It was in reference to another posters claim that Christianity is not pushed on the non-religious, which is, in my experience, demonstrably false.

Weak, weak, weak.

Anything else?

Tell me again what point you are trying to make, and I will deal with just that. you are all over the place now.

My original point (remember that, what we were originally talking about) is that creationism and evolution deal with two completely different time periods. You then, for whatever reason, injected ID, something I didnt even bring up.

So, are you saying evolution and creationism cover the same time periods, or not? Try to keep it to just that.

I'll put it simply.

Evolution deals with the development of life as we know it. Nothing to do with the origin of life (abiogenesis)

Creationism is both the source, and explanation, from a theistic point of view, developed from a fundamental interpretation of the bible.

Intelligent Design is an attempted bridge at the two, Combining the origin claim of creationism and man, but utilizing the evolution aspect of non-human animals. Without creationism, Intelligent Design would not exist.

In summary:




Satisfied?

All this information was stated in the paragraphs I've already written so far.

(03-14-2017 11:02 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Interesting article.

http://www.livescience.com/963-lags-worl...ution.html

Summary:

Quote:A comparison of peoples' views in 34 countries finds that the United States ranks near the bottom when it comes to public acceptance of evolution. Only Turkey ranked lower.

Among the factors contributing to America's low score are poor understanding of biology, especially genetics, the politicization of science and the literal interpretation of the Bible by a small but vocal group of American Christians, the researchers say.

“American Protestantism is more fundamentalist than anybody except perhaps the Islamic fundamentalist, which is why Turkey and we are so close,” said study co-author Jon Miller of Michigan State University."

USA! USA!

Kruciff,

Probably the worst result of Trump being elected was the eureka moment that conservatives, and those worse than conservatives, had in regards to the outcome: the truth is arbitrary, so long as you can convince 50% + 1 to agree with what you say.

Perhaps even worse than that is the "tactic" of promoting anti-knowledge to those who are to be swayed, in the sense of "listen to how intelligent he's trying to sound ... actually, that means he's talking DOWN to you!! Take that as a personal insult! Dismiss whatever he says! Instead, listen to me! I'm your friend!"


It is truly scary.

On topic:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/po...77143.html

Quote:Rep. Mark Brody, a Union County Republican, thinks the NCAA has gone too far.

“We are experiencing economic retaliation from this non-profit organization who, by the way, we have a long history of supporting,” Brody said. “But this organization decided it’s going to use economic retaliation in order to force us to pass a piece of social legislation that has nothing to do with the core mission of the NCAA.”

Brody said his bill would direct legislative leaders to ask the Internal Revenue Service to revoke the non-profit status of both the NCAA and the ACC. Spokeswomen for the organizations declined comment.

But both groups are unlikely to change course.

An N.C. sports official has said over 130 N.C. cities and schools have applied for NCAA events through 2022. The organization is expected to announce its choices next month.

ACC Commissioner John Swofford said last week the league is making contingency plans for other venues. Charlotte has been scheduled to host the ACC basketball tournament in 2019. It was scheduled to return to Greensboro in 2020.

“We’ve done some groundwork,” Swofford told the (Raleigh) News & Observer last week. “We would be remiss if we didn’t. This tournament takes up a week at a venue. Venues get booked. The longer we would wait the fewer places we would have available to us. Just from a practical standpoint, we don’t have any choice right now.”

(03-14-2017 11:19 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Kruciff,

Probably the worst result of Trump being elected was the eureka moment that conservatives, and those worse than conservatives, had in regards to the outcome: the truth is arbitrary, so long as you can convince 50% + 1 to agree with what you say.

Perhaps even worse than that is the "tactic" of promoting anti-knowledge to those who are to be swayed, in the sense of "listen to how intelligent he's trying to sound ... actually, that means he's talking DOWN to you!! Take that as a personal insult! Dismiss whatever he says! Instead, listen to me! I'm your friend!"


It is truly scary.

Here's the huge problem I think NC faces: how do you dismiss or bypass the fact that the NCAA has already done this for years to South Carolina in regards to the confederate flag being flown previously?????

As Kruciff said ... OK, so the bill gets passed and NC asks the IRS to investigate the NCAA and the ACC.

The IRS says "........... No."

(03-14-2017 11:21 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  On topic:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/po...77143.html

Quote:Rep. Mark Brody, a Union County Republican, thinks the NCAA has gone too far.

“We are experiencing economic retaliation from this non-profit organization who, by the way, we have a long history of supporting,” Brody said. “But this organization decided it’s going to use economic retaliation in order to force us to pass a piece of social legislation that has nothing to do with the core mission of the NCAA.”

Brody said his bill would direct legislative leaders to ask the Internal Revenue Service to revoke the non-profit status of both the NCAA and the ACC. Spokeswomen for the organizations declined comment.

But both groups are unlikely to change course.

An N.C. sports official has said over 130 N.C. cities and schools have applied for NCAA events through 2022. The organization is expected to announce its choices next month.

ACC Commissioner John Swofford said last week the league is making contingency plans for other venues. Charlotte has been scheduled to host the ACC basketball tournament in 2019. It was scheduled to return to Greensboro in 2020.

“We’ve done some groundwork,” Swofford told the (Raleigh) News & Observer last week. “We would be remiss if we didn’t. This tournament takes up a week at a venue. Venues get booked. The longer we would wait the fewer places we would have available to us. Just from a practical standpoint, we don’t have any choice right now.”

With regard to the ACC tournament, this is entirely their choice.