hktribefan
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RE: Jim Comey
There's an interesting shift somewhere where alums go from liberal to conservative. It's possibly something that comes with age, but I think it's also the nature of demographics and political views of generations. I have a number of WM friends across generations, including many of you on here (sure I haven't met most of you, but I feel like I know so many screen names so well!). Those of an older generation have the same views on Comey, Gene Nichol, and many other events (though I am very grateful we are able to, for the most part, leave politics aside on these boards). Those I know of a younger generation almost all have the opposite views on these same issues. It's very interesting to look at comments on here or social media, and try and figure out where that line is drawn. I'm not saying everyone who graduated before '95 is a gun-totin redneck and everyone after '95 a liberal hippie tree hugger, but it is interesting to see how things shake out.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2018 10:27 AM by hktribefan.)
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01-24-2018 10:24 AM |
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Sitting bull
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RE: Jim Comey
(01-24-2018 10:24 AM)hktribefan Wrote: There's an interesting shift somewhere where alums go from liberal to conservative. It's possibly something that comes with age, but I think it's also the nature of demographics and political views of generations. I have a number of WM friends across generations, including many of you on here (sure I haven't met most of you, but I feel like I know so many screen names so well!). Those of an older generation have the same views on Comey, Gene Nichol, and many other events (though I am very grateful we are able to, for the most part, leave politics aside on these boards). Those I know of a younger generation almost all have the opposite views on these same issues. It's very interesting to look at comments on here or social media, and try and figure out where that line is drawn. I'm not saying everyone who graduated before '95 is a gun-totin redneck and everyone after '95 a liberal hippie tree hugger, but it is interesting to see how things shake out.
I think you are right.
I remember when the controversy first came out on the IRS, when Lois Lerner admitted that the agency had targeted Tea Party groups (Irony - lost emails here as well). My reaction was stunned - as I had always believed that the actual working government would never behave that way, targeting people for their political views. Maybe that was from growing up in the age of Watergate where it became almost a lesson in Constitutional government.
When they interviewed college students however on this (I think it was Colorado/Boulder) the response for those who despised the Tea Party, they didn't seem to care as long as it was on the other side politically.
We have gone from the IRS, to the State Dept - and now possibly to Justice and the FBI. It's really sad and indefensible.
Bad timing is the most lenient comment to make on our announcement.
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01-24-2018 11:40 AM |
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nj alum
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01-24-2018 12:04 PM |
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hktribefan
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RE: Jim Comey
(01-24-2018 12:04 PM)nj alum Wrote: HK-
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/24/heart-head/
Yeah, I've heard that quote before, but didn't want to reference it specifically. Especially since there are those (of all ages) in the liberal camp that have no heart and plenty in the conservative camp with no intelligence!
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01-24-2018 12:41 PM |
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mrjoolius
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RE: Jim Comey
While I agree that not rushing into the hire would have probably been the best course. Democrats are convinced Comey cost Clinton the election. Republicans paint Comey as a liar, self serving, and traitor. Perhaps the sensitivity of the subject should have made W&M steer clear. I get it.
I still haven't been convinced there is anything thats not politically motivated keeping him from doing an admirable job teaching. This bombshell classified Fisa memo that conservatives are harping about is a talking points memo written by staunch Trump ally Nunez. I'm sure it talks about horrible miscarriages of justice by any that opposed Trump's actions. Forgive me for not thinking that this memo and its motives aren't exactly genuine. Comey is in a no win situation. If he is somehow charged with something, it will be "I told you so." if they say there is nothing to the memo or that Comey acted correctly, then the Trumpites will claim "secret society cover up."
So maybe I've changed my stance. I think Comey would do an admirable job as a professor. But with the unavoidable backlash, he probably wasn't the smartest hire.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2018 01:59 PM by mrjoolius.)
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01-24-2018 01:32 PM |
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zablenoise
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RE: Jim Comey
(01-24-2018 01:32 PM)mrjoolius Wrote: While I agree that not rushing into the hire would have probably been the best course. Democrats are convinced Comey cost Clinton the election. Republicans paint Comey as a liar, self serving, and traitor. Perhaps the sensitivity of the subject should have made W&M steer clear. I get it.
I still haven't been convinced there is anything thats not politically motivated keeping him from doing an admirable job teaching. This bombshell classified Fisa memo that conservatives are harping about is a talking points memo written by staunch Trump ally Nunez. I'm sure it talks about horrible miscarriages of justice by any that opposed Trump's actions. Forgive me for not thinking that this memo and its motives aren't exactly genuine. Comey is in a no win situation. If he is somehow charged with something, it will be "I told you so." if they say there is nothing to the memo or that Comey acted correctly, then the Trumpites will claim cover up.
So maybe I've changed my stance. I think Comey would do an admirable job as a professor. But with the unavoidable backlash, he probably wasn't the smartest hire.
Yeah I've come around to exactly your viewpoint on this. Personally, I have no issues with Comey but the school needs to be thinking about it from a PR (and resultant monetary) standpoint.
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01-24-2018 01:57 PM |
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nj alum
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RE: Jim Comey
In one universe, the "memo" has been written by a staunch Trump ally, Nunez, to support Trump.
In the other universe, the "memo" is one of four things. One, for what it's worth, Gowdy has apparently given an interview whereby he said he wrote it, not Nunez. Two, the "memo" may be a condensed version of the FISA opinion that I linked above. The FISA opinion re-dacted names; the "memo" apparently puts the names back in, and makes them public. Third, the FISA violations referenced in the "memo" apparently pre-date the Trump candidacy, and that, if true, is a whole 'nother ballgame. Fourth, the "memo" apparently makes clear that Americans of all stripes were the subject of unlawful surveillance with FISA being used as the "cover", and this is the kind of thing that academia, in my college days, absolutely abhorred.
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01-24-2018 02:02 PM |
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nj alum
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RE: Jim Comey
The article is interesting, but the comments are what caught my attention, not because they are right or wrong, but because our school is being dragged into this food fight. This kind of commentary is happening everywhere. Just beside myself on this self-inflicted error:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/45...ct-hillary
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2018 02:45 PM by nj alum.)
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01-24-2018 02:21 PM |
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Sitting bull
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RE: Jim Comey
(01-24-2018 01:32 PM)mrjoolius Wrote: I still haven't been convinced there is anything thats not politically motivated keeping him from doing an admirable job teaching.
The fact that W&M hired Comey for something is one thing.
The fact that W&M hired Comey to teach a class specific in "Ethical Leadership" to me signals a political motivation, not from posters here, but the College itself.
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01-24-2018 04:22 PM |
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nj alum
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01-24-2018 04:55 PM |
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Tribeheart
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RE: Jim Comey
(01-24-2018 04:22 PM)Sitting bull Wrote: (01-24-2018 01:32 PM)mrjoolius Wrote: I still haven't been convinced there is anything thats not politically motivated keeping him from doing an admirable job teaching.
The fact that W&M hired Comey for something is one thing.
The fact that W&M hired Comey to teach a class specific in "Ethical Leadership" to me signals a political motivation, not from posters here, but the College itself.
So, if the far left thinks Comey cost Clinton the presidency, and the far right thinks Comey was biased and out to get Trump, then where does that political motivation lie?
Maybe ethical leadership lies in having a heart and intelligence?
As all of us, on occasion, second guess our athletic staffs, the same could be said about second guessing our university leadership. Time will tell, but grant support until proven otherwise. I, personally, still have the belief from my student and alumni experiences that ALL fellow alums have been pretty darn high on the totem pole regarding integrity. If there were errors in ethical judgment made by Comey at stages in his career, that would only add to the wealth of knowledge and value he would bring in teaching that subject. Would much rather study that subject with someone whose got that level of experience, good and bad. Imagine the student/professor debate that will inevitably occur. Guarantee you slots in that DC course will be in high demand, and of great value to those students. Providing those opportunities is what a great university should be doing, as opposed to worrying about political views.
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(This post was last modified: 01-24-2018 05:54 PM by Tribeheart.)
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01-24-2018 05:28 PM |
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WMInTheBurg
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RE: Jim Comey
(01-24-2018 01:57 PM)zablenoise Wrote: (01-24-2018 01:32 PM)mrjoolius Wrote: So maybe I've changed my stance. I think Comey would do an admirable job as a professor. But with the unavoidable backlash, he probably wasn't the smartest hire.
Yeah I've come around to exactly your viewpoint on this. Personally, I have no issues with Comey but the school needs to be thinking about it from a PR (and resultant monetary) standpoint.
Same here. This has many similarities to Nichol moving the Wren Cross. The act itself may have merit and probably there's a time when nobody thinks much of it. But the manner in which the College's decision was made at least appears not well thought out, and that's reason enough not to do it now. If it was two years ago or two years from now, it might not have warranted a story outside the Alumni Gazette.
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01-24-2018 06:13 PM |
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WMInTheBurg
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RE: Jim Comey
(01-24-2018 07:29 AM)nj alum Wrote: I have my own opinions on this stuff. I'm not going to get into them.
So much for that.
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01-24-2018 06:15 PM |
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mrjoolius
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RE: Jim Comey
(01-24-2018 05:28 PM)Tribeheart Wrote: Maybe ethical leadership lies in having a heart and intelligence?
As all of us, on occasion, second guess our athletic staffs, the same could be said about second guessing our university leadership. Time will tell, but grant support until proven otherwise. I, personally, still have the belief from my student and alumni experiences that ALL fellow alums have been pretty darn high on the totem pole regarding integrity.
I also think about who pushed to hire him? I believe it was members of the faculty and law school with up close dealings with him and know him well. They have a pretty good idea of what kind of man he is and what he represents- away from all of the political bias. Comey had mentioned before that being the head of the FBI was a non-partisan position. By the way both sides hate him, he probably tried to be.
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01-24-2018 06:42 PM |
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nj alum
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RE: Jim Comey
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2018 08:45 PM by nj alum.)
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01-24-2018 08:32 PM |
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mrjoolius
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RE: Jim Comey
I don't think that the existence of the memo is in question. I think the problem for me is that the purpose of the Nunes memo and releasing it is strickly in retaliation for and to discredit the Russia investigation. You have republican members describing how awful the memo is and dems claiming that the conclusions being drawn by Nunes are a stretch. The memo screams of partisan politics pure and simple and is being weaponized to reach their goals... Regardless of what Comey did or didn't do.
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01-24-2018 08:50 PM |
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Tribal
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Jim Comey
I just want to go on the record and say that I've held the same political views since age 16. I'm also informed enough to know I should and do take decisions based on [perceived] facts rather than tow a certain political party's line.
I do know for a fact that former presidential appointees, who were fired because of felonious activities, are currently teaching at top universities. Point is, I'm not at all surprised that W&M hired Comey. Maybe we should wait to see if he actually did something wrong before we condemn him.
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01-25-2018 07:01 AM |
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nj alum
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RE: Jim Comey
Maybe W&M should have waited to see if he actually did something wrong before the school hired him.
That is the point of those of us who question the hire.
As for condemning him, one political party and their media friends dragged Jim Comey over the coals re: his Clinton pronouncements during the campaign. He was a condemned man in their eyes in 2016. I thought he was in a no win position given the Lynch/Clinton tarmac meeting, and the politics of the moment.
In the other universe, it is suggested that he was an active participant in the politics of 2016. Those who condemned him in 2016 are now silent.
I’m withholding judgment, just like the school should have withheld the job offer, and watch it play out.
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01-25-2018 11:19 AM |
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Tribeheart
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Jim Comey
I would assume most of the players in the Mueller investigation know where they stand by now. Would be dumbfounded if Comey entered into this arrangement with his alma mater if he knew a negative road was coming.
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01-25-2018 04:43 PM |
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nj alum
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01-26-2018 01:21 PM |
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