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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #31
RE: The DC TV and Theatrical Universe...
(10-13-2017 04:29 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(10-13-2017 01:15 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  Anybody watch the Flash S4 premiere? I keep thinking I'm going to quit this show. I guess inertia has a pretty good hold on my viewing habits but after last night, ugh. Spoilers...

Barry comes back from the Speed Force and is crazy for half the show, then cured because Iris was in trouble. Completely fixed. Geez. If we don't get back to those weird symbols he was writing, at least, I'm gonna be pissed. Feels like really lazy writing. And speaking of lazy writing, Caitlin is back? Cisco goes to the bar where she works (huh? no backstory on this at all) asks her to help with Barry, and she says ok. That's it?! Oh, and in the mean time (the last 6 months), Iris turned from being a reporter to running STAR Labs and the crime fighting team. m'kay

I don't usually catch up on The Flash till it hits Netflix. I wasn't totally feeling last season though. But my main problem in digesting The Flash is... the speed force time travel and alternate dimensions/universes/multiverse is you have a never ending time cycle travel to fix and cause problems being they heroes or villains. Where is Earth 5 Flash? Earth 6 Zoom? Earth 4 Cisco? I mean... yeah...

Yes, these are all problems. I should have mentioned that Season 4 is not planned to go that way (based on what I've read), and they did introduce The Thinker in episode 1. So that's a good thing, I hope...
10-13-2017 04:35 PM
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BlazerJoe Offline
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Post: #32
RE: The DC TV and Theatrical Universe...
(10-13-2017 04:35 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  
(10-13-2017 04:29 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(10-13-2017 01:15 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  Anybody watch the Flash S4 premiere? I keep thinking I'm going to quit this show. I guess inertia has a pretty good hold on my viewing habits but after last night, ugh. Spoilers...

Barry comes back from the Speed Force and is crazy for half the show, then cured because Iris was in trouble. Completely fixed. Geez. If we don't get back to those weird symbols he was writing, at least, I'm gonna be pissed. Feels like really lazy writing. And speaking of lazy writing, Caitlin is back? Cisco goes to the bar where she works (huh? no backstory on this at all) asks her to help with Barry, and she says ok. That's it?! Oh, and in the mean time (the last 6 months), Iris turned from being a reporter to running STAR Labs and the crime fighting team. m'kay

I don't usually catch up on The Flash till it hits Netflix. I wasn't totally feeling last season though. But my main problem in digesting The Flash is... the speed force time travel and alternate dimensions/universes/multiverse is you have a never ending time cycle travel to fix and cause problems being they heroes or villains. Where is Earth 5 Flash? Earth 6 Zoom? Earth 4 Cisco? I mean... yeah...

Yes, these are all problems. I should have mentioned that Season 4 is not planned to go that way (based on what I've read), and they did introduce The Thinker in episode 1. So that's a good thing, I hope...

They should have let Wally remain the primary hero for more than 15 minutes. I don't mind what they did with Iris because Barry told her to hold the team together, and that's what she's doing. Welcome back, Caitlin...I guess. They pulled a deus ex machina to bring Barry back, and he was scrambled eggs until The Power of Love came in and helped him save Iris.

Not a great start, Team Flash...not a great start.
10-14-2017 10:12 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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Post: #33
RE: The DC TV and Theatrical Universe...
http://www.darkhorizons.com/jesse-rath-i...supergirl/
Hmm

http://www.darkhorizons.com/wentworth-mi...-universe/
I think this hurts The Flash and LoT series IMO. I mean, this guy's iteration of Captain Cold was so great with his philosophies and character ticks that I think really added a lot to the show(s). In other words, he just had "the thing."

http://www.darkhorizons.com/justice-leag...-mandated/
The more I read about the goings on of this film as part of the success of Wonder Woman and the bashing DoJ took.... I hope they don't f* it up. I'll see it anyway but it feels like too many hands in the cookie jar to make a good movie. And I am one who thinks Marvel can have their schtick and be good and DC can go in a opposite direction and be good as well.
11-06-2017 10:41 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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Post: #34
RE: The DC TV and Theatrical Universe...
http://www.darkhorizons.com/what-next-fo...ce-league/

I'm only posting an article as talking point for my post but litterally, what does DC need to do to get a successful movie off the ground? Not saying what they have put out is bad but...

So lets see here:

Marvel had done:
X Men (original cast)
(new/First Class cast) X Men
Wolverine
Blade
Iron Man
Captain America
The Avengers
Thor
Hulk -1
Hulk -2
Guardians of the Galaxy
Antman

DC has done:
Batman
Wonder Woman
Superman 1 (Superman Returns)
Superman 2 (Man of Steel)
Suicide Squad
BvS DoJ
Justice League
Green Lantern.

JMO, if DC wants do go the Marvel route of a Xmen/Avengers banner movie then do standout characters in their own movies, the only one avenue I see for this is the further advancing of the Justice League set up.

Arguably the plays would be:

GoG roughly equals Green Lantern
Antman roughly equals The Atom (?)
Well, Aquaman is going ahead and I don't know of a Marvel equivalent for him.
Green Arrow is arguably a Hawkeye clone in terms of archer character but has a lot of Batman-esque stuff in him with all the League of Assassins, parents killed, parents owned successful company ect... in him.

With the success of the Green Arrow tv show, I think there is merit to go big screen with him. And with the LoA angles put forth in the tv show I think they could pull off a alternative to Batman but stay dark.

I think the tv show chemistry of Green Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, and Legends of Tomorrow lead me to believe they could easily do an expanded cast of DC characters for the Justice League in a sequel.

IMO, Green Lantern is kind of tricky. I thought the first movie was decent for what it was but yeah, it could have been better, but since I don't know too much about his whole deal with the Lanterns and each person that has been Green Lantern I can't say what would be the best way to bring him back to the big screen. I think his outer space vibe could easily play into the GoG/Thor arenas as far as space goes.

Superman is deserving his own stand alone films but cinematically speaking, after Superman I and II, they haven't made a GOOD one. With his good guy tones, he, I guess, could be considered a Captain America equivalent to some degree. He needs a good stand alone film.

Wonder Woman showed they could make a good movie so...

The Flash? I am a fan of the tv show. However, I didn't like last season. I have liked him in all the animated Justice League stuff. My lone problem with his Speedforce deal is the time travel/multiverse aspect they have introduced into it. It just seems way to trivial to pull Flashes, villains, allies, and what not out of multiverse and time travelling possibilities to help or destroy any kind of plot. In other words, at any time they could pull in __ from Earth 3, 4, 5 .... but then.... ohh wait, our villain is really Earth 2 future villain who time traveled back to Earth 3 to spring a ally from Earth 1 in the past....

The crazy thing is, I think all their small screen animated stuff has been quite good.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2017 11:36 PM by PirateTreasureNC.)
11-19-2017 11:30 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #35
RE: The DC TV and Theatrical Universe...
OK, so you're just talking about the DCEU, right? (i.e. Dark Knight Trilogy and other earlier DC character stuff not included). As you note, DC has put a successful (i.e. critical and popular) DCEU movie out: Wonder Woman. Terrific film. But I think the point you're getting at, and make more clearly in the movie thread, is that DC hasn't done a very good job of thinking through their character's movie (and TV) lives, how they can connect, and where they're headed. Marvel has done this remarkably well. Their TV productions link to their movie productions. Characters are consistent. But DC doesn't appear to care much about that. Your example of Arrow is a good one: They just arbitrarily decided that Arrow would go up against Ra's al ghul? It actually did make the show good, but it completely crapped all over the Batman story line. Do you watch Gotham? As silly as it can be sometimes I kind of like it, but it's obviously part of some separate DC universe because the Ra's-Bruce Wayne story line has become integral. All the TV Flash stuff? Those characters (and the actors who portray them)? Completely different from the film - ANOTHER DC universe. It's disjointed, and means the best they can do (for now) is the occasional hit like WW, but then they have disastrous opening weekends for what should be a MONSTER hit in Justice League, because fans don't trust them to get this stuff right and they're not telling a story like Marvel is. And for the record, I'm not a Marvel fanboy - I've always preferred the DC characters.
11-20-2017 01:15 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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Post: #36
RE: The DC TV and Theatrical Universe...
(11-20-2017 01:15 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  OK, so you're just talking about the DCEU, right? (i.e. Dark Knight Trilogy and other earlier DC character stuff not included). As you note, DC has put a successful (i.e. critical and popular) DCEU movie out: Wonder Woman. Terrific film. But I think the point you're getting at, and make more clearly in the movie thread, is that DC hasn't done a very good job of thinking through their character's movie (and TV) lives, how they can connect, and where they're headed. Marvel has done this remarkably well. Their TV productions link to their movie productions. Characters are consistent. But DC doesn't appear to care much about that. Your example of Arrow is a good one: They just arbitrarily decided that Arrow would go up against Ra's al ghul? It actually did make the show good, but it completely crapped all over the Batman story line. Do you watch Gotham? As silly as it can be sometimes I kind of like it, but it's obviously part of some separate DC universe because the Ra's-Bruce Wayne story line has become integral. All the TV Flash stuff? Those characters (and the actors who portray them)? Completely different from the film - ANOTHER DC universe. It's disjointed, and means the best they can do (for now) is the occasional hit like WW, but then they have disastrous opening weekends for what should be a MONSTER hit in Justice League, because fans don't trust them to get this stuff right and they're not telling a story like Marvel is. And for the record, I'm not a Marvel fanboy - I've always preferred the DC characters.


I have no prior knowledge of Green Arrow's comic book history and I don't recall any real discussion of it in the old Superfriends or newer Justice League animated cartoons. That said, the LoA could have obviously incorporated a lot of heroes and villains over the years and I didn't find Arrow's paths in and out of the life of a LoA member to be going against any Batman LoA story arcs that I know of. I really did feel that they reasoned out some good Arrow history with the LoA into a lot of good story line and some pretty cool character reveals.

Gotham has been very entertaining for sure. I like its spin on the Batman universe. I think they have pulled off some good characters in it.

I like the TV Flash and I like the animated Flash portrayals I have seen so far. But the way they did him in DoJ seemed off... like who he was, where he'd be in his life, and what had happened/hadn't happened to him in terms of being that CSI guy, the Star Labs stuff, and other stuff involving him seemed not right logistically with the visuals.

As far as DC vs. Marvel thing goes, I do think Marvel did a better job of planning out who to do and when, and if they wanted to really go for the intertwined story arc amongst their characters. Marvel basically has to banners to run under, X Men and The Avengers. They have been pretty smart about keeping the casting together and using the main movies to feed into the sub movies. I am not saying DC has to pull off a grand scheme The Avengers family of films to be good. I think you have have Marvel and DC films coexist without one series biting off the others. Honestly. some of Marvel's schtick of late is kind of wearing thin. DC could play the opposite with the harder edge and darker tone....but they have to get the movie right.
11-20-2017 10:48 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #37
RE: The DC TV and Theatrical Universe...
(11-20-2017 10:48 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  As far as DC vs. Marvel thing goes, I do think Marvel did a better job of planning out who to do and when, and if they wanted to really go for the intertwined story arc amongst their characters. Marvel basically has to banners to run under, X Men and The Avengers. They have been pretty smart about keeping the casting together and using the main movies to feed into the sub movies. I am not saying DC has to pull off a grand scheme The Avengers family of films to be good.

I agree, but if they keep making movies and TV shows without some kind of overall direction, they'll have trouble holding their audience. Marvel has people anticipating what's next and folks are leaving the theater already impatient for the next film because it's been set up so well. DC has people wondering what's next, and whether or not it'll be any good.

Quote:I think you have have Marvel and DC films coexist without one series biting off the others.

Absolutely! Everybody wants to see Batman and Superman (at a minimum) in great movies. Look how well The Dark Knight Trilogy did. This isn't about the characters - it's about the actors and the stories.

Quote:DC could play the opposite with the harder edge and darker tone....but they have to get the movie right.

Bingo
11-21-2017 01:09 PM
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BadgerMJ Offline
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Post: #38
RE: The DC TV and Theatrical Universe...
OK, just finished watching the last of the CW Arrowverse crossover event. There's good news and bad news.

GOOD NEWS.

Once again, it was awesome. Plenty of action, outrageous story line, plenty of humor and overall a lot of fun.

BAD NEWS

IMO, the last two season's crossover events were MUCH better than DC's big budget blockbuster movies. The crossovers give one a sense of enjoyment watching them. They're entertaining as hell too. Compare that to the lackluster Suicide Squad, Batman v Superman, and Justice League. It's a problem for DC when the CW makes a better "blockbuster" than the movie studios.

COUPLE OTHER THOUGHTS

I was a little disappointed that they didn't work the Elongated Man into the story line. I know he's only been involved for a few episodes, but he was around for the wedding announcement on The Flash. Picky, but hey.

I did find it kind of cool that for the third week in a row, The Flash had Marvel references on the show. One about The Hulk and two about Spiderman. It's nice to see they acknowledge that the characters of their competitors "universe" are part of pop culture and aren't afraid to use that. Let's see if Marvel will ever return the favor so to speak.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2017 07:36 AM by BadgerMJ.)
11-30-2017 07:35 AM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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Post: #39
RE: The DC TV and Theatrical Universe...
12-05-2017 10:51 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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Post: #40
RE: The DC TV and Theatrical Universe...
12-10-2017 01:19 AM
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