The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(08-23-2017 05:40 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 05:24 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 05:17 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  At best, you're telling me you're a ******* imbecile. At worst, you're a skitzo who thinks statues can oppress and offend.

Well you got me there. Those are undoubtedly the only two possibility.

Well by all means, please tell me how a rock, this lifeless, voiceless, inanimate object; managed to screw your mom, take your job, burn down an orphanage and sass you about your racial ancestry. I want to hear all about it XD Holy ****
It's stone. Like you do realize there aren't cultists bringing up makeshift alters to make sacrifices to it, right? It's not as though at night time it turns into Robert E Lee himself or a gargoyle or something.

I seem to remember a lot of people having a problem over some artist peeing on a crucifix or something like that. Can you imagine people getting all fired up about a piece of wood? C'mon!

Quote:By the way if the statues are so meaningless, why not just take them down and be done with it?

No meaning, regardless of how offensive, can be justly censored in a free society. If that's a problem, I hear Pyongyang is lovely this time of year.
As for art in general, meaning depends on the viewer. I don't see an offensive expression, I see a finite historical figure, who like you and everybody else was imperfect. Having said that, I have more respect for those who do things that actually make a difference in the world than those who stand on a roadside and ***** about it.
[/quote]

That all makes perfect sense, except that these are on public land which is the ONLY reason this is even an issue.

Being imperfect and leading a war in the name of racism are two wildly different things, again common sense would be so helpful for this.

(08-23-2017 05:17 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 05:05 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 04:32 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 03:19 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  Sometimes life sucks but as a functioning adult, we, the rest of planet earth, expect you to get over it. Every day children are disappointed that they can't have everything they want, I don't reward them for their tantrums, why should these ***** be treated any different?

(08-23-2017 04:01 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  It's a cry for attention, a bunch of dick waving

Perhaps a mirror is in order.

Am I standing in public, protesting something inanimate and completely harmless, like a statue? Am I in people's faces about their costume choices for Halloween? All the while thumping my chest with a bunch of other robots parroting the same bull ****? No. I think not.

You forgot marching with torches...screaming inflammatory things... and thumping your chest with a bunch of other robots making Nazi gestures.

1) Got a permit
2) Legal
3) If you don't like it don't show up or watch it.
4) They were paid
5) Bused in

Same chit on university campuses with leftists going whacko because a conservative speaker is doing a speech. They literally shut down these events because they do not like the speech. How about just stay home or study or something.

(08-23-2017 05:49 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 05:40 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 05:24 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 05:17 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  At best, you're telling me you're a ******* imbecile. At worst, you're a skitzo who thinks statues can oppress and offend.

Well you got me there. Those are undoubtedly the only two possibility.

Well by all means, please tell me how a rock, this lifeless, voiceless, inanimate object; managed to screw your mom, take your job, burn down an orphanage and sass you about your racial ancestry. I want to hear all about it XD Holy ****
It's stone. Like you do realize there aren't cultists bringing up makeshift alters to make sacrifices to it, right? It's not as though at night time it turns into Robert E Lee himself or a gargoyle or something.

I seem to remember a lot of people having a problem over some artist peeing on a crucifix or something like that. Can you imagine people getting all fired up about a piece of wood? C'mon!

Quote:By the way if the statues are so meaningless, why not just take them down and be done with it?

No meaning, regardless of how offensive, can be justly censored in a free society. If that's a problem, I hear Pyongyang is lovely this time of year.
As for art in general, meaning depends on the viewer. I don't see an offensive expression, I see a finite historical figure, who like you and everybody else was imperfect. Having said that, I have more respect for those who do things that actually make a difference in the world than those who stand on a roadside and ***** about it.

That all makes perfect sense, except that these are on public land which is the ONLY reason this is even an issue.

Being imperfect and leading a war in the name of racism are two wildly different things, again common sense would be so helpful for this.
[/quote]

Do that to a Koran and you will killed.

Was anyone really planning on watching the Virginia-William & Mary game anyway?

(08-23-2017 05:49 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  That all makes perfect sense, except that these are on public land which is the ONLY reason this is even an issue.

Being imperfect and leading a war in the name of racism are two wildly different things, again common sense would be so helpful for this.

1. It isn't just public land. I woke up this morning to the following
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/vandals-kno...-cemetery/
2. public land or not, defacing and removing monuments doesn't do anything. You're just instigating with people you don't like. It's trolling, only offline.
3. Then explain manifest destiny, internment camps, the annexation of Hawaii etc.
Are everyone of those, also examples of people who were merely racist and nothing else? Should I liken FDR to Adolf Hitler?
Are you prepared to take down every single monument, of every single president, who has been in office while the red nation/Indians have been subjugated to a permanent condition of poverty and limited rights through government intervention?

No.

Complaining just to complain. That's all it is.

The idea that the left spends money to pay protesters might be the most insanely paranoid idiotic thing I've ever read oing this board.

(08-23-2017 03:14 PM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 03:09 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 03:04 PM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  I'm losing track of causes I should be losing sleep over because it might offend somebody..."In God We Trust" since 1957 on paper currency must go, take down the statues, gender neutral bathrooms, that's (insert Racism), etc etc etc. How many of these groups are looking to “bait” a white person (OBVIOUSLY with a privileged background) into acting / commenting, so that they can be quickly shamed.

Big fan of Bill Hybels and he opened up the 2017 GLS summit with the question of "How do leaders lead in an era of divisiveness and disrespect?" The solution has to begin with me as a leader...respect everyone always. Our world has a civility problem, and it needs leaders to change the course of our world….then went on to talk about rules for respect and civility that are lacking nowadays.

Were those fellas who were doing the Nazi salute and screaming obscenities acting with respect and civility?

Not a chance in h*ll. Were the students who staged a walkout at a graduation ceremony of a keynote speaker acting with respect and civility?

Certainly civility. I guess we can argue respect but non violent acts of peaceful protest are a staple of our democracy and are certainly civil.

We have a young black man in the NFL who can't get a job in his chosen profession where he is undoubtedly qualified, because people are outraged about him disrespecting the united states by taking a knee in nonviolent protest during the national anthem. We have the same people that are outraged about his disrespecting the country adamantly defending having monuments to traitors that fought against the United States on public property. Whatever else they did in their life, Lee and Davis and many of the other Confederates honored on public ground fought against the United States on the side of slavery. It's no surprise these statutes went up disproportionately during the civil rights era and Jim Crow period. These largely weren't monuments to history, they were a statement from white America to Black America.

So now we have people defending traitors to the united states who fought against the United States on the side of slavery, for the right to own black men and women and have them returned to them should they escape and defending the NAZIs who walk to make sure they are honored on public grounds... and those same people acting like a young black man engaged in nonviolent protest is something terrible and disrespectful to America. People then wonder why so many of our African American brothers and sisters are convinced of the discrimination they face day after day.

(08-24-2017 06:14 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The idea that the left spends money to pay protesters might be the most insanely paranoid idiotic thing I've ever read oing this board.

From fake union protesters, who are actually hired by temp staffing agencies to people paid to protest at all of these recent protests. Yep Mark you have your head so far up the the far leftist pie hole it is a total eclipse 365 days year.

Its quite funny how quick this all got out of hand, and reduced itself to name calling and fingerprinting all over an announcer choosing to switch games due to safety concerns, and not wanting to be the butt of some joke.

It must be something in the water in Cincinnati.

(08-24-2017 07:08 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 06:14 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The idea that the left spends money to pay protesters might be the most insanely paranoid idiotic thing I've ever read oing this board.

From fake union protesters, who are actually hired by temp staffing agencies to people paid to protest at all of these recent protests. Yep Mark you have your head so far up the the far leftist pie hole it is a total eclipse 365 days year.

This has been documented by project Veritas.

(08-24-2017 06:33 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  We have a young black man in the NFL who can't get a job in his chosen profession where he is undoubtedly qualified, because people are outraged about him disrespecting the united states by taking a knee in nonviolent protest during the national anthem. We have the same people that are outraged about his disrespecting the country adamantly defending having monuments to traitors that fought against the United States on public property. Whatever else they did in their life, Lee and Davis and many of the other Confederates honored on public ground fought against the United States on the side of slavery. It's no surprise these statutes went up disproportionately during the civil rights era and Jim Crow period. These largely weren't monuments to history, they were a statement from white America to Black America.

So now we have people defending traitors to the united states who fought against the United States on the side of slavery, for the right to own black men and women and have them returned to them should they escape and defending the NAZIs who walk to make sure they are honored on public grounds... and those same people acting like a young black man engaged in nonviolent protest is something terrible and disrespectful to America. People then wonder why so many of our African American brothers and sisters are convinced of the discrimination they face day after day.

First off...this assumes that Kapernik's inability to land a job in the NFL is due solely to his protest. Not so fast....prior to the "protest season" he was benched for poor performance..had nothing to do with social justice. I also recall that during his "protest season" his performance was sub-par. That's why he's gone.

I also recall other players "taking a knee" during the anthem that are still on NFL rosters--if it were all about the protest, then that wouldn't have happened.

Second...the NFL is a business, and a business has the right to hire or fire anyone they want for any reason that falls within the rule of law. Has Kapernik been precluded from trying out for a spot on an NFL roster? I don't think so...he just hasn't been hired. That's up to the ownership. Same thing with Michael Sam--he can't make an NFL roster because he can't perform up to minimum standards--thus, no slot in the NFL.

Now--to your argument about the Civil War monuments--discounting the Neo-Nazis and the Klan, which are a fraction of the total US population, many of those who support keeping the monuments up want to do so as a way to preserve the historical record, as ugly as it is. Whitewashing or re-writing history is censorship and does a disservice to future generations.

I daresay the majority of people that want those memorials kept in place are not in support of racism, or a return to slavery. They simply want the historical record maintained. I would also venture a guess that you won't find anything on those monuments that supports slavery or racism--simply a record of what that individual did during his/her lifetime.

I recently heard Al Sharpton opine that the Jefferson Memorial be torn down because he was a slave owner. I would hope that you wouldn't support such an initiative, in light of the fact that it would erase a large chunk of American History.

If you want a shining example of a painful reminder of the world history of the past that STILL STANDS and is cherished by it's victims, look no further than the concentration camps erected by Nazi Germany--visited, I might add, by the families of the victims and those that would have been persecuted annually. The Holocaust and it's history are carefully curated and the records maintained as a reminder of what NOT to do in the future.

Iwo Jima is preserved as a monument to a painful battle during WWII, likewise the destruction wrought by the H-bomb still stands in certain locations in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those residents don't want these reminders torn down either. The same is true of the Pearl Harbor Memorial in Hawaii.

If we apply your logic, we should tear down the Freedom Center because it is a painful reminder of slavery--I don't think that would fly in the current climate...do you?

Thats my 2 cents.

(08-24-2017 06:16 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 03:14 PM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 03:09 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 03:04 PM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  I'm losing track of causes I should be losing sleep over because it might offend somebody..."In God We Trust" since 1957 on paper currency must go, take down the statues, gender neutral bathrooms, that's (insert Racism), etc etc etc. How many of these groups are looking to “bait” a white person (OBVIOUSLY with a privileged background) into acting / commenting, so that they can be quickly shamed.

Big fan of Bill Hybels and he opened up the 2017 GLS summit with the question of "How do leaders lead in an era of divisiveness and disrespect?" The solution has to begin with me as a leader...respect everyone always. Our world has a civility problem, and it needs leaders to change the course of our world….then went on to talk about rules for respect and civility that are lacking nowadays.

Were those fellas who were doing the Nazi salute and screaming obscenities acting with respect and civility?

Not a chance in h*ll. Were the students who staged a walkout at a graduation ceremony of a keynote speaker acting with respect and civility?

Certainly civility. I guess we can argue respect but non violent acts of peaceful protest are a staple of our democracy and are certainly civil.

I agree with the civility, but the GREATER problem is the lack of respect. If you start with respect first, then follow with civility, 99% of these problems in our world today would fizzle out IMHO. How many cultures have people that would actually KILL you for a lack of disrespect...

If you disrespected a Mafia member in public, what happens...
If you called a gang member in the south side Chicago a RACIAL word, what happens...
If you are a NAZI and hate and disrespect Jewish people, what happens...

Respect is a tough one, has been FOREVER (1 Peter 2:17 - "Show proper respect to everyone")...how do you agree to disagree without being disrespectful? Start with respect, then be civil.

Can you respect...police officers regardless of why they pulled you over, soldiers returning from Vietnam, Priests, White Supremacists, people of different religious views / atheists, etc etc etc.

I respect Mark and his opinions even if I don't always agree, would gladly buy him a beer and talk Bearcats. If someone disrespects The University of Cincinnati, I full faith Mark would jump all over said offender.

(08-24-2017 08:25 AM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  I respect Mark and his opinions even if I don't always agree, would gladly buy him a beer and talk Bearcats. If someone disrespects The University of Cincinnati, I full faith Mark would jump all over said offender.

Cheers to that.

(08-24-2017 08:49 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:25 AM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  I respect Mark and his opinions even if I don't always agree, would gladly buy him a beer and talk Bearcats. If someone disrespects The University of Cincinnati, I full faith Mark would jump all over said offender.

Cheers to that.

I already bought this snowflake a beer once. Believe me, he's even less endearing in person.

(08-24-2017 09:10 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:49 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:25 AM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  I respect Mark and his opinions even if I don't always agree, would gladly buy him a beer and talk Bearcats. If someone disrespects The University of Cincinnati, I full faith Mark would jump all over said offender.

Cheers to that.

I already bought this snowflake a beer once. Believe me, he's even less endearing in person.

did you two get into a fight?

(08-24-2017 09:16 AM)Lush Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 09:10 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:49 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:25 AM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  I respect Mark and his opinions even if I don't always agree, would gladly buy him a beer and talk Bearcats. If someone disrespects The University of Cincinnati, I full faith Mark would jump all over said offender.

Cheers to that.

I already bought this snowflake a beer once. Believe me, he's even less endearing in person.

did you two get into a fight?

Yeah I smashed a bottle over his hollow head.

(08-24-2017 08:13 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 06:33 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  We have a young black man in the NFL who can't get a job in his chosen profession where he is undoubtedly qualified, because people are outraged about him disrespecting the united states by taking a knee in nonviolent protest during the national anthem. We have the same people that are outraged about his disrespecting the country adamantly defending having monuments to traitors that fought against the United States on public property. Whatever else they did in their life, Lee and Davis and many of the other Confederates honored on public ground fought against the United States on the side of slavery. It's no surprise these statutes went up disproportionately during the civil rights era and Jim Crow period. These largely weren't monuments to history, they were a statement from white America to Black America.

So now we have people defending traitors to the united states who fought against the United States on the side of slavery, for the right to own black men and women and have them returned to them should they escape and defending the NAZIs who walk to make sure they are honored on public grounds... and those same people acting like a young black man engaged in nonviolent protest is something terrible and disrespectful to America. People then wonder why so many of our African American brothers and sisters are convinced of the discrimination they face day after day.

First off...this assumes that Kapernik's inability to land a job in the NFL is due solely to his protest. Not so fast....prior to the "protest season" he was benched for poor performance..had nothing to do with social justice. I also recall that during his "protest season" his performance was sub-par. That's why he's gone.

I also recall other players "taking a knee" during the anthem that are still on NFL rosters--if it were all about the protest, then that wouldn't have happened.

Second...the NFL is a business, and a business has the right to hire or fire anyone they want for any reason that falls within the rule of law. Has Kapernik been precluded from trying out for a spot on an NFL roster? I don't think so...he just hasn't been hired. That's up to the ownership. Same thing with Michael Sam--he can't make an NFL roster because he can't perform up to minimum standards--thus, no slot in the NFL.

Now--to your argument about the Civil War monuments--discounting the Neo-Nazis and the Klan, which are a fraction of the total US population, many of those who support keeping the monuments up want to do so as a way to preserve the historical record, as ugly as it is. Whitewashing or re-writing history is censorship and does a disservice to future generations.

I daresay the majority of people that want those memorials kept in place are not in support of racism, or a return to slavery. They simply want the historical record maintained. I would also venture a guess that you won't find anything on those monuments that supports slavery or racism--simply a record of what that individual did during his/her lifetime.

I recently heard Al Sharpton opine that the Jefferson Memorial be torn down because he was a slave owner. I would hope that you wouldn't support such an initiative, in light of the fact that it would erase a large chunk of American History.

If you want a shining example of a painful reminder of the world history of the past that STILL STANDS and is cherished by it's victims, look no further than the concentration camps erected by Nazi Germany--visited, I might add, by the families of the victims and those that would have been persecuted annually. The Holocaust and it's history are carefully curated and the records maintained as a reminder of what NOT to do in the future.

Iwo Jima is preserved as a monument to a painful battle during WWII, likewise the destruction wrought by the H-bomb still stands in certain locations in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those residents don't want these reminders torn down either. The same is true of the Pearl Harbor Memorial in Hawaii.

If we apply your logic, we should tear down the Freedom Center because it is a painful reminder of slavery--I don't think that would fly in the current climate...do you?

Thats my 2 cents.

I tend to agree with your take on Kapernik based on what I've read about his play last year.

I have to admit that I did not watch any NFL last year, and won't again this year.

I think my decision to avoid watching has been validated exponentially when I read the articles on the state of health of these guys who played, but are now out of the game from retirement, injury, whatever. I recently read about Jim Plunkett and his post football struggles in an article (the article also touched on several other players).

It's sad to read about former players and what they are going through in their 50's and 60's. Surely the game can be changed for the better protection of these guys, if people really cared.

Finally, regarding the statues again, I object to any group(s) trying to make change by force (especially when polls show they are in the minority on the issue).

(08-24-2017 09:24 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 09:16 AM)Lush Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 09:10 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:49 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:25 AM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  I respect Mark and his opinions even if I don't always agree, would gladly buy him a beer and talk Bearcats. If someone disrespects The University of Cincinnati, I full faith Mark would jump all over said offender.

Cheers to that.

I already bought this snowflake a beer once. Believe me, he's even less endearing in person.

did you two get into a fight?

Yeah I smashed a bottle over his hollow head.

(08-24-2017 09:38 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 09:24 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 09:16 AM)Lush Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 09:10 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:49 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Cheers to that.

I already bought this snowflake a beer once. Believe me, he's even less endearing in person.

did you two get into a fight?

Yeah I smashed a bottle over his hollow head.

what about saloon doors?