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(01-03-2018 10:28 AM)JunctaJuvant Wrote:  This is a Serious Question for all the Bengals Fans. Why do you continue to put yourself through this misery? Any why would anyone continue to purchase tickets for that garbage product they put on the field?

Several Bengals fans have gone down a similar path as me, it's quite remarkable. I had season tickets for 10 years and gave them up 5 years ago. And now 5 years later, I wouldn't say I don't care but I'm definitely not emotionally invested like I once was. Do I want them to do well? Sure because it can be good for the city and I like some of the players and think they care. Am I going to spend a dime on them or go out of my way to watch them? not a chance. I went from a die hard fan to completely apathetic in less than 5 years, it's actually pretty sad.

This one made me LOL.

(01-03-2018 10:28 AM)JunctaJuvant Wrote:  This is a Serious Question for all the Bengals Fans. Why do you continue to put yourself through this misery? Any why would anyone continue to purchase tickets for that garbage product they put on the field?

I think Bengals fans exaggerate the "misery" since Marvin Lewis took over.

Yea it sucks having not won a playoff game, but...

The Bengals have only had 2 truly bad seasons in those 15 years.

They've had 6 very mediocre seasons.

They've had 7 Playoff season, 4 of which they won a division that includes Baltimore and Pittsburgh (two regularly good teams with multiple super bowls in the last two decades.

Go to Buffalo, go to Cleveland, Go to Washington, hell some other teams have had a couple seasons where they made a nice run, but have had a lot more miserable seasons than the Bengals over the last decade and a half.

Cincinnati fans have this way of making everything seem way worse than it is. It'd be great to break through and win in the playoffs. It'd be great to have a title contending team that doesn't lose its starting QB before the playoffs (or on the first play of the playoffs), but ultimately if you're miserable watching the Bengals, maybe you should watch sports at all or just jump on the bandwagon of teams like the Patriots and Steelers. They are the exception, not the rule, but if you need a dominant franchise to be happy then just root for one.

(01-03-2018 10:52 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 10:28 AM)JunctaJuvant Wrote:  This is a Serious Question for all the Bengals Fans. Why do you continue to put yourself through this misery? Any why would anyone continue to purchase tickets for that garbage product they put on the field?

I think Bengals fans exaggerate the "misery" since Marvin Lewis took over.

Yea it sucks having not won a playoff game, but...

The Bengals have only had 2 truly bad seasons in those 15 years.

They've had 6 very mediocre seasons.

They've had 7 Playoff season, 4 of which they won a division that includes Baltimore and Pittsburgh (two regularly good teams with multiple super bowls in the last two decades.

Go to Buffalo, go to Cleveland, Go to Washington, hell some other teams have had a couple seasons where they made a nice run, but have had a lot more miserable seasons than the Bengals over the last decade and a half.

Cincinnati fans have this way of making everything seem way worse than it is. It'd be great to break through and win in the playoffs. It'd be great to have a title contending team that doesn't lose its starting QB before the playoffs (or on the first play of the playoffs), but ultimately if you're miserable watching the Bengals, maybe you should watch sports at all or just jump on the bandwagon of teams like the Patriots and Steelers. They are the exception, not the rule, but if you need a dominant franchise to be happy then just root for one.

Agree with a lot of this and should clarify, I just don't watch NFL football much at all anymore. Not just the Bengals. For some reason it just seems more boring to me than it ever did before.

I've never been an NFL season ticket holder. I'd consider it if I made doss type money, but in no way could I justify the expense otherwise. I get what you're saying about the NFL. I still love it...redzone on Sundays is marvelous and I'm a Bengals fan...always will be, but I'm still more about the college football experience and college hoops.

(01-03-2018 10:41 AM)bearcatfan1211 Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 10:28 AM)JunctaJuvant Wrote:  This is a Serious Question for all the Bengals Fans. Why do you continue to put yourself through this misery? Any why would anyone continue to purchase tickets for that garbage product they put on the field?

Several Bengals fans have gone down a similar path as me, it's quite remarkable. I had season tickets for 10 years and gave them up 5 years ago. And now 5 years later, I wouldn't say I don't care but I'm definitely not emotionally invested like I once was. Do I want them to do well? Sure because it can be good for the city and I like some of the players and think they care. Am I going to spend a dime on them or go out of my way to watch them? not a chance. I went from a die hard fan to completely apathetic in less than 5 years, it's actually pretty sad.

Once you take the red pill it’s all over. It’s fun to watch the people who still think the Mike Brown Matrix is really about winning and not just about selling hot dogs and beer at massive margins.

(01-03-2018 10:52 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 10:28 AM)JunctaJuvant Wrote:  This is a Serious Question for all the Bengals Fans. Why do you continue to put yourself through this misery? Any why would anyone continue to purchase tickets for that garbage product they put on the field?

I think Bengals fans exaggerate the "misery" since Marvin Lewis took over.

Yea it sucks having not won a playoff game, but...

The Bengals have only had 2 truly bad seasons in those 15 years.

They've had 6 very mediocre seasons.

They've had 7 Playoff season, 4 of which they won a division that includes Baltimore and Pittsburgh (two regularly good teams with multiple super bowls in the last two decades.

Go to Buffalo, go to Cleveland, Go to Washington, hell some other teams have had a couple seasons where they made a nice run, but have had a lot more miserable seasons than the Bengals over the last decade and a half.

Cincinnati fans have this way of making everything seem way worse than it is. It'd be great to break through and win in the playoffs. It'd be great to have a title contending team that doesn't lose its starting QB before the playoffs (or on the first play of the playoffs), but ultimately if you're miserable watching the Bengals, maybe you should watch sports at all or just jump on the bandwagon of teams like the Patriots and Steelers. They are the exception, not the rule, but if you need a dominant franchise to be happy then just root for one.

I think you tend to gloss over the intangibles or perhaps put too much emphasis on the overall body of work Marvin has had instead of looking at the details, which I think most Bengals fans are doing. Sure he brought them to respectability and he's had mostly some good seasons, but I think the "misery" the fans are tired of are:

0-7 in the playoffs.
2-8 in last 10 primetime games (not only do they lose, but often embarrass themselves)
Not sure of the numbers, but I am sure their record coming off bye weeks are horrid
poor clock management
Has a knack of giving up momentum-shifting points at the end of the first half
being consistently outcoached in the 2nd half of games
7-22 v. Pittsburgh
slow to bench underperforming veterans
be less tolerant of his miscreant players

I think this is what most fans are tired of and out weighs any "successful" seasons. I don't see the problem of wanting more than just playoff appearances. For me, he could have went 9-7 for 15 years and had no losing seasons and I still wouldn't be happy. Being average sucks!

I wouldn't argue that purely based on record ML should be fired. Heck I would actually say he did a good job this year since 7 wins is more than should've been expected given their talent level. However my argument would be that the status quo of basically being in the middle of the pack 6-10 wins more or less for 15 years the status quo isn't so good that it's not worth taking a chance to try to get better. There's definitely a good chance that you take a step back but it's not like aside from 05&15 they've been a real threat to go deep. You'd be basically keeping him around for a once a decade contending team.

I've never understood that attitude so maybe I'll just never be on the same page as others. To me avoiding awful seasons is great. I watched so many 2-14, 3-13, 4-12 type Bengals seasons in my formative years. It was the worst. I don't want to do what the Browns and Bills have done for a decade plus. i've been there.

The Bengals have been at least relevant during all but 2 seasons under Lewis. The regular season had meaning, most games they played felt like they mattered. I don't live and die for the playoffs. I enjoy the journey. I enjoy watching games week after week. Just like with UC... i love my trips to Nippert in the fall and my football road trips. I love watching UC basketball throughout the year. When your team is irrelevant the games are much tougher to enjoy. I've mostly enjoyed watching the Bengals for the last decade and a half. That matters to me.

The seven playoff seasons were all fun in the varying respects. The first was amazing as we thought this was the verge of something great. The end was depressing because a team I felt could whole thing (that had won in Pittsburgh with the division essentially on the line a few weeks earlier) lost its QB to open the playoffs.

The next playoff season was rewarding because of the series of bad luck, (bad special teams) that caused the Bengals to fail for a few years. Additionally that was the season Carson Palmer and the Bengals went 6-0 in the AFC North. Two division titles in a division that matters at that point.

The Dalton Run had many highs. Just getting there in year 1 was rewarding. Showing it wasn't a fluke in year 2. Neither of those teams were title contenders but the Bengals had successfully rebuilt on the fly from 4-12 and showed they could be a factor after Palmer.

The next year had the first really frustrating playoff loss to me in the ML era. That team looked like a contender for much of the year. The rebuild seemed to be reaching the point where they could do something. Injuries, however seemed to mount as the playoffs approached and the defensive line fell apart after the Geno injury. They should have beat SD but had a series of things go wrong from the Geo fumble, to the lines inability to block anyone in the second half, to Dalton falling apart as he was hit play after play, to AJ Green dropping a pass down the sideline that should have been a TD and kept the Bengals in it. This was the first one you felt like the Bengals really should have won (2005 would have been but for injury to Palmer).

2014 they seemed to take a step back especially as injuries to the wide receivers mounted. They still battled and made the playoffs winning some big games. I went to the playoff game in Indy.... Indy played man to man and our only "receiver" that got open was Burkhead who seemed like he was the number 1 receiver that day.

2015 everything finally seemed to come together... Dalton has some big late comeback wins against really good teams (including an incredible one against Seattle where he repeatedly made enormous plays down the stretch) to start 8-0. He gets injured in week 12... without the injury they likely end up the 1 seed. He was having an MVP season with a line that could protect him and receivers that got open across the board. That team brought me so much joy, but after his injury they were never the same. They went 2-3 after his injury including the loss in the playoffs, lost some free agents and struggled to rebuild the last two years.

The point is though, I enjoyed watching so many games during all those years. The last second comebacks in the 6-0 division years. The amazing perforamances in the 8-0 start to 2015. The amazing road win at Pittsburgh to lock up the division in 2005. The joy of being a fan is the journey and the Bengals have give us plenty on the journey. I'd love to make the jump and take it one level further. The only teams I felt good about doing that were 2005 and 2015 (actually 2006 for about half the season as well) and there were a few other teams I thought could get some breaks and do it (the 2013 team that lost to SD being one major one).

Being Mediocre to really good (even contender in 2005, 2015) has been fun. The results for a variety of reasons in the playoffs have been bad and frustrating but ultimately these seasons have been enjoyable unless you are the kind of person that only cares about the end. That's just never been me. The journey matters...the week after week is what makes this fun.

Take the red pill, Mark. Exit the Bungle Matrix.

Your Sundays are about to be spoken for next season anyways. And that is a good thing.

(01-03-2018 11:54 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  I wouldn't argue that purely based on record ML should be fired. Heck I would actually say he did a good job this year since 7 wins is more than should've been expected given their talent level. However my argument would be that the status quo of basically being in the middle of the pack 6-10 wins more or less for 15 years the status quo isn't so good that it's not worth taking a chance to try to get better. There's definitely a good chance that you take a step back but it's not like aside from 05&15 they've been a real threat to go deep. You'd be basically keeping him around for a once a decade contending team.

How many teams without a Hall of Fame quarterback are contenders more than a couple times a decade?

I would view Marvin's results differently if Payton Manning or Tom Brady had been his quarterback throughout (or even if Palmer hadn't had the ACL injury and not looked like the same QB after). You can be a contender without a Hall of Fame QB if things are great across the roster, but teams are not contenders year after year without one.

i think everyone is making great points

The problem is the NFL is set up for everybody to be average, that's why they draft in reverse order. 22 teams this year finished at 9-7 or worse. You need a top flight organization and a top flight QB to consistently win in the NFL, you know who those teams are.

(01-03-2018 12:01 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  How many teams without a Hall of Fame quarterback are contenders more than a couple times a decade?

I would view Marvin's results differently if Payton Manning or Tom Brady had been his quarterback throughout (or even if Palmer hadn't had the ACL injury and not looked like the same QB after). You can be a contender without a Hall of Fame QB if things are great across the roster, but teams are not contenders year after year without one.

Fair point but shouldn't they at least be trying to find that guy? Especially from a position of having a legitimate starting QB signed to a reasonable deal? Kansas City is both making playoffs and saying that to get where we want to be we need better.

I mean there's probably been 6-8 HOF QBs playing over the last decade. Getting those guys is hard but it happens.

I remember when Marvin got hired. His first three seasons were great (meaning he had upward momentum and the team had a pulse for the first time in over a decade). Ever since the 2005 playoff run got cut short by the Carson Palmer injury, they have underachieved every season with exception to maybe one or two years. That's all you need to know about Marvin's tenure with the Bengals.

Bengals retaining Lazor as O-Coordinator.

Paul Alexander gone.

Simmons staying.

(01-03-2018 10:28 AM)JunctaJuvant Wrote:  This is a Serious Question for all the Bengals Fans. Why do you continue to put yourself through this misery? Any why would anyone continue to purchase tickets for that garbage product they put on the field?

hey einstein, it's professional athletics

(01-03-2018 01:09 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  Bengals retaining Lazor as O-Coordinator.

Paul Alexander gone.

Simmons staying.

Guenther gone. Darren Simmons to gain "more responsibility".

Marvin said they will finally look at FA to help get some better guys here.

Coaches will continue to provide input on draft day, not much will change there.

Said they want to be more of a vertical threat offensively.

(01-03-2018 01:40 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 01:09 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  Bengals retaining Lazor as O-Coordinator.

Paul Alexander gone.

Simmons staying.

Guenther gone. Darren Simmons to gain "more responsibility".

Marvin said they will finally look at FA to help get some better guys here.

Coaches will continue to provide input on draft day, not much will change there.

Said they want to be more of a vertical threat offensively.

Then they better find a new QB. That's the weakest part of Dalton's game. His downfield passing is atrocious, and that's with having one of the best receivers in the game at his disposal.

Has it been confirmed that Guenther is gone? I'd love to see them get Jack Del Rio. He's kind of like Wade Phillips. He stinks as a HC, but he can coach defense. He's coordinated 3 defenses ranked in the top 3.

(01-03-2018 01:49 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 01:40 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 01:09 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  Bengals retaining Lazor as O-Coordinator.

Paul Alexander gone.

Simmons staying.

Guenther gone. Darren Simmons to gain "more responsibility".

Marvin said they will finally look at FA to help get some better guys here.

Coaches will continue to provide input on draft day, not much will change there.

Said they want to be more of a vertical threat offensively.

Then they better find a new QB. That's the weakest part of Dalton's game. His downfield passing is atrocious, and that's with having one of the best receivers in the game at his disposal.

Has it been confirmed that Guenther is gone? I'd love to see them get Jack Del Rio. He's kind of like Wade Phillips. He stinks as a HC, but he can coach defense. He's coordinated 3 defenses ranked in the top 3.

He hasn't been released, he is pursuing another job (Oakland). Marvin said they are not waiting to replace him.

Aside from the points I mentioned above, Marvin has come across as very obtuse in this press conference. I don't look for a whole heck of a lot to change. He honestly is trying to act as if things are pretty good, they just need to work a little harder in practice and in game situations.