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NoDak Offline
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Post: #121
RE: UMKC Evaluation
Montana and Montana State are both upgrading their facilities, and it's not for the Big Sky because they are already at the upper end of it. But posters here keep their heads in the sand because they firmly believe the Montanas and Idaho and EWU would never leave the Big Sky, although several official sources say the research schools will depart that conference, but we should believe the posters who have no inside information.
11-24-2017 03:45 PM
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Post: #122
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-24-2017 02:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Northern Colorado would be the better grab for the Summit. It gives them a football school and the ability to bring MVFC football in house, having 6 of the 12 members. It gives schools a second conference game when they fly into Denver too.

But who says Northern Colorado wants the Summit?

(I'm open to the idea, I just want to see the case made from NoCo's point of view why this helps them.)
11-24-2017 04:43 PM
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Post: #123
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-24-2017 03:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Montana and Montana State are both upgrading their facilities, and it's not for the Big Sky because they are already at the upper end of it. But posters here keep their heads in the sand because they firmly believe the Montanas and Idaho and EWU would never leave the Big Sky, although several official sources say the research schools will depart that conference, but we should believe the posters who have no inside information.

Sources which you never quite get around to linking to.
11-24-2017 04:45 PM
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EvanJ Offline
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Post: #124
RE: UMKC Evaluation
I know a broadcaster for Texas-Rio Grande Valley (UTRGV). If the WAC ceased to exist, where should UTRGV go? Southland? They're too far south to fit in the Big Sky, and not good enough athletically for the Sun Belt and better conferences with teams in Texas and FBS football. I don't think UTRGV would want to join the SWAC.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2017 05:23 PM by EvanJ.)
11-24-2017 05:19 PM
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Post: #125
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-24-2017 04:43 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 02:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Northern Colorado would be the better grab for the Summit. It gives them a football school and the ability to bring MVFC football in house, having 6 of the 12 members. It gives schools a second conference game when they fly into Denver too.

But who says Northern Colorado wants the Summit?

(I'm open to the idea, I just want to see the case made from NoCo's point of view why this helps them.)

The travel is more convenient and cheaper. It gets them associated with Denver. Northern Colorado has some history with the Dakotas and Omaha so it would be a reunion of sorts. They'd split basketball money with fewer conference mates and some of the Summit schools actually have a shot of upsetting someone and getting an extra credit.
11-24-2017 05:55 PM
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teamvsn Offline
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Post: #126
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-23-2017 05:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 03:53 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 09:40 AM)HoustonCougarNation Wrote:  It's always a shame to see a school drop down a division or two. I know that with large TV contract and shoe company sponsorships that not all schools are on the same playing level. I hope that there is a way that they can balance the budget and keep their division I status. Let's hope for the best!

Respectfully disagree. I think it's a shame to see a school struggle for years on end to be competitive with no prospect for success in sight, when they could move to a more appropriate level for their budget where they can have success, excitement on campus and probably more seats in the stands. Not everyone belongs in NCAA D1, and it's usually administrative egos that keep them stuck there.

Then, they do get a break out year like southern Nazarene this year. They were more competitive in football winning more games than before at D2. I think they will improve next year if they keep at it.

Sometimes being at lower levels do kind of hurt your image to attract new students. Several schools, mainly in NAIA, shut down like Dana. So, it depends where you are located could shape your future. As it is, Chaminade would not be the smallest D1 school if they move up. Honolulu is a major hub city, so going D1 might bring in more students. Presbyterian is the smallest school. Chaminade would do well in D1 then Presbyterian. The main difference between both schools is that Chaminade is located in a very large town with an airport while schools like Dana and Presbyterian are located in small towns without an airport. I do think that schools located in large towns might do better and benefit at the higher levels than schools in smaller towns with a lack of access and money when they are privates.

I'd hardly call 4-7 a "breakout year". That said, it's still too early to judge SNU; their transition was only a few years ago. My reference was to school who have not been competitive in decades and clearly don't have the money to rebuild.

I have it on authority of Dana alumni that the school was mismanaged. There are other schools Dana's size that are OK.

Presbyterian's endowment is almost 100 million. That gives them a lot of flexibility in offering quality enhancements to their school, athletics programs, scholarships and discounting tuition. And it is also an indication of how much support they have from alumni. Chaminade is the opposite. Pretty much all costs have to come out of student's pockets. No ability to finance NCAA D1 here. And I am curious, since I am not familiar with them, by what measure is Prebyterian considered "successful"?
11-24-2017 07:13 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #127
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-24-2017 07:13 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 05:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 03:53 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 09:40 AM)HoustonCougarNation Wrote:  It's always a shame to see a school drop down a division or two. I know that with large TV contract and shoe company sponsorships that not all schools are on the same playing level. I hope that there is a way that they can balance the budget and keep their division I status. Let's hope for the best!

Respectfully disagree. I think it's a shame to see a school struggle for years on end to be competitive with no prospect for success in sight, when they could move to a more appropriate level for their budget where they can have success, excitement on campus and probably more seats in the stands. Not everyone belongs in NCAA D1, and it's usually administrative egos that keep them stuck there.

Then, they do get a break out year like southern Nazarene this year. They were more competitive in football winning more games than before at D2. I think they will improve next year if they keep at it.

Sometimes being at lower levels do kind of hurt your image to attract new students. Several schools, mainly in NAIA, shut down like Dana. So, it depends where you are located could shape your future. As it is, Chaminade would not be the smallest D1 school if they move up. Honolulu is a major hub city, so going D1 might bring in more students. Presbyterian is the smallest school. Chaminade would do well in D1 then Presbyterian. The main difference between both schools is that Chaminade is located in a very large town with an airport while schools like Dana and Presbyterian are located in small towns without an airport. I do think that schools located in large towns might do better and benefit at the higher levels than schools in smaller towns with a lack of access and money when they are privates.

I'd hardly call 4-7 a "breakout year". That said, it's still too early to judge SNU; their transition was only a few years ago. My reference was to school who have not been competitive in decades and clearly don't have the money to rebuild.

I have it on authority of Dana alumni that the school was mismanaged. There are other schools Dana's size that are OK.

Presbyterian's endowment is almost 100 million. That gives them a lot of flexibility in offering quality enhancements to their school, athletics programs, scholarships and discounting tuition. And it is also an indication of how much support they have from alumni. Chaminade is the opposite. Pretty much all costs have to come out of student's pockets. No ability to finance NCAA D1 here. And I am curious, since I am not familiar with them, by what measure is Prebyterian considered "successful"?

Presbyterian only had one year which was last that their football team won games over .500. They have never been successful in anything really. That is why they are moving their football to the Pioneer League. Never had great basketball that beats any P5 schools. Chaminade does have success at doing that. That is why I think Chaminade might make it out in D1. Beat a p5 team, attract more students that way, and grow the endowment even more when chaminade beats the big boys at the D1 level. That is why I think they might be the only one from d2 in Hawaii that could be big time in the future.
11-24-2017 07:20 PM
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NoQuestion Offline
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Post: #128
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-24-2017 03:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Montana and Montana State are both upgrading their facilities, and it's not for the Big Sky because they are already at the upper end of it. But posters here keep their heads in the sand because they firmly believe the Montanas and Idaho and EWU would never leave the Big Sky, although several official sources say the research schools will depart that conference, but we should believe the posters who have no inside information.

We are upgrading facilities because we need to. UM updated because they needed to. Other than the stadium. They had high school level facilities.
11-24-2017 09:25 PM
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Post: #129
RE: UMKC Evaluation
Northern Colorado to the Summit makes the most sense if a spot in the MVFC was available. Need spot in case MVC expands. Be nice to jettison Youngstown State to the CAA.

But a Northern Colorado and UMKC to the Summit sets the league up nicely when Fort Wayne bolts. Both the Summit and Big Sky would be almost perfect 10 team leagues with good travel partners.

Summit League
Denver/Northern Colorado
North Dakota/North Dakota State
South Dakota/South Dakota State
Oral Roberts/UMKC
Omaha/Western Illinois

Big Sky
Eastern Washington/Idaho
Montana/Montana State
Idaho State/Weber State
Northern Arizona/Southern Utah
Portland State/Sacramento State
11-24-2017 10:00 PM
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Post: #130
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-24-2017 07:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 07:13 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 05:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 03:53 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 09:40 AM)HoustonCougarNation Wrote:  It's always a shame to see a school drop down a division or two. I know that with large TV contract and shoe company sponsorships that not all schools are on the same playing level. I hope that there is a way that they can balance the budget and keep their division I status. Let's hope for the best!

Respectfully disagree. I think it's a shame to see a school struggle for years on end to be competitive with no prospect for success in sight, when they could move to a more appropriate level for their budget where they can have success, excitement on campus and probably more seats in the stands. Not everyone belongs in NCAA D1, and it's usually administrative egos that keep them stuck there.

Then, they do get a break out year like southern Nazarene this year. They were more competitive in football winning more games than before at D2. I think they will improve next year if they keep at it.

Sometimes being at lower levels do kind of hurt your image to attract new students. Several schools, mainly in NAIA, shut down like Dana. So, it depends where you are located could shape your future. As it is, Chaminade would not be the smallest D1 school if they move up. Honolulu is a major hub city, so going D1 might bring in more students. Presbyterian is the smallest school. Chaminade would do well in D1 then Presbyterian. The main difference between both schools is that Chaminade is located in a very large town with an airport while schools like Dana and Presbyterian are located in small towns without an airport. I do think that schools located in large towns might do better and benefit at the higher levels than schools in smaller towns with a lack of access and money when they are privates.

I'd hardly call 4-7 a "breakout year". That said, it's still too early to judge SNU; their transition was only a few years ago. My reference was to school who have not been competitive in decades and clearly don't have the money to rebuild.

I have it on authority of Dana alumni that the school was mismanaged. There are other schools Dana's size that are OK.

Presbyterian's endowment is almost 100 million. That gives them a lot of flexibility in offering quality enhancements to their school, athletics programs, scholarships and discounting tuition. And it is also an indication of how much support they have from alumni. Chaminade is the opposite. Pretty much all costs have to come out of student's pockets. No ability to finance NCAA D1 here. And I am curious, since I am not familiar with them, by what measure is Prebyterian considered "successful"?

Presbyterian only had one year which was last that their football team won games over .500. They have never been successful in anything really. That is why they are moving their football to the Pioneer League. Never had great basketball that beats any P5 schools. Chaminade does have success at doing that. That is why I think Chaminade might make it out in D1. Beat a p5 team, attract more students that way, and grow the endowment even more when chaminade beats the big boys at the D1 level. That is why I think they might be the only one from d2 in Hawaii that could be big time in the future.

You have an amazingly low bar to determine what is successful. Chaminade is 8-92 in the Maui tournament, that's an .080 win percentage in 34 years. They are not going D1. The lack of success at Presbyterian is not the reason for the football switch.
11-24-2017 11:16 PM
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Post: #131
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-24-2017 07:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 07:13 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 05:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 03:53 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 09:40 AM)HoustonCougarNation Wrote:  It's always a shame to see a school drop down a division or two. I know that with large TV contract and shoe company sponsorships that not all schools are on the same playing level. I hope that there is a way that they can balance the budget and keep their division I status. Let's hope for the best!

Respectfully disagree. I think it's a shame to see a school struggle for years on end to be competitive with no prospect for success in sight, when they could move to a more appropriate level for their budget where they can have success, excitement on campus and probably more seats in the stands. Not everyone belongs in NCAA D1, and it's usually administrative egos that keep them stuck there.

Then, they do get a break out year like southern Nazarene this year. They were more competitive in football winning more games than before at D2. I think they will improve next year if they keep at it.

Sometimes being at lower levels do kind of hurt your image to attract new students. Several schools, mainly in NAIA, shut down like Dana. So, it depends where you are located could shape your future. As it is, Chaminade would not be the smallest D1 school if they move up. Honolulu is a major hub city, so going D1 might bring in more students. Presbyterian is the smallest school. Chaminade would do well in D1 then Presbyterian. The main difference between both schools is that Chaminade is located in a very large town with an airport while schools like Dana and Presbyterian are located in small towns without an airport. I do think that schools located in large towns might do better and benefit at the higher levels than schools in smaller towns with a lack of access and money when they are privates.

I'd hardly call 4-7 a "breakout year". That said, it's still too early to judge SNU; their transition was only a few years ago. My reference was to school who have not been competitive in decades and clearly don't have the money to rebuild.

I have it on authority of Dana alumni that the school was mismanaged. There are other schools Dana's size that are OK.

Presbyterian's endowment is almost 100 million. That gives them a lot of flexibility in offering quality enhancements to their school, athletics programs, scholarships and discounting tuition. And it is also an indication of how much support they have from alumni. Chaminade is the opposite. Pretty much all costs have to come out of student's pockets. No ability to finance NCAA D1 here. And I am curious, since I am not familiar with them, by what measure is Prebyterian considered "successful"?

Presbyterian only had one year which was last that their football team won games over .500. They have never been successful in anything really. That is why they are moving their football to the Pioneer League. Never had great basketball that beats any P5 schools. Chaminade does have success at doing that. That is why I think Chaminade might make it out in D1. Beat a p5 team, attract more students that way, and grow the endowment even more when chaminade beats the big boys at the D1 level. That is why I think they might be the only one from d2 in Hawaii that could be big time in the future.

Chaminade is able to do that because they are able to play on their home court. That N E V E R happens with other D2 and NAIA schools. If it did, those kinds of upsets would be more common. So your standard of measurement is skewed. Chaminade is far from the best D2 school out there, but because of their tournament they are the only ones that can get D1s to play on their home court. You would think they would be able to turn that advantage into being a premiere D2 school, but they can't. Not enough money, apparently. D1 is even further out of reach.
11-24-2017 11:38 PM
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EvanJ Offline
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Post: #132
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-24-2017 10:00 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Be nice to jettison Youngstown State to the CAA.
That's the Colonial Athletic Association, and Youngstown wasn't in a colony. I make that complaint when a CAA fan proposes adding Chattanooga. According to Google Maps, it takes 4:43 to drive from Youngstown State to Towson, which is the nearest CAA team to Youngstown State. The CAA already has 7 out of 12 football teams in the Big East (Villanova), Atlantic 10 (Rhode Island and Richmond), or America East (Stony Brook, Albany, Maine, and New Hampshire) for other sports. The CAA has 10 basketball teams which allows everybody to play everybody else twice. The CAA doesn't need more teams unless somebody leaves. Furthermore, the CAA was great at Women's Basketball in 2016-2017, and the worst CAA team was 99 spots ahead of Youngstown State in the RPI. In Men's Basketball only two CAA teams were behind Youngstown State in the RPI.
11-25-2017 07:18 AM
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Post: #133
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-25-2017 07:18 AM)EvanJ Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 10:00 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Be nice to jettison Youngstown State to the CAA.
That's the Colonial Athletic Association, and Youngstown wasn't in a colony. I make that complaint when a CAA fan proposes adding Chattanooga.

The entirety of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin was claimed by Virginia until 1784. All of Tennessee was part of North Carolina until 1772.
11-25-2017 07:59 AM
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UMKC Evaluation
(11-21-2017 06:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 04:21 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 02:50 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Hockey at UMKC? While we are at it, why not add FB and have them added into the Montucky-Dakota FBS conference. Seems like a logical fit, no?

Curious what the timeline would be for UMKC going back to the Summit and how that impacts the WAC reaching out to its next add (APU).

Hey, leave the rest of the Dakota's out of that discussion. That's a NoDak thing.

As for UMKC's decision, I would expect that if they are going back to the Summit it will be announced in the next 12 months.

UMKC's timeline won't affect a WAC offer to APU. What may slow an APU offer is their trying to figure out what happens with FB. Their best move would be to join San Diego in the Pioneer (non-scholarship).

Or the Big Sky as an affiliate in football.


big sky is not expanding. jn fact they would rather drop a couple of schools



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11-25-2017 02:10 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #135
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-25-2017 02:10 PM)billings Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 06:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 04:21 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 02:50 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Hockey at UMKC? While we are at it, why not add FB and have them added into the Montucky-Dakota FBS conference. Seems like a logical fit, no?

Curious what the timeline would be for UMKC going back to the Summit and how that impacts the WAC reaching out to its next add (APU).

Hey, leave the rest of the Dakota's out of that discussion. That's a NoDak thing.

As for UMKC's decision, I would expect that if they are going back to the Summit it will be announced in the next 12 months.

UMKC's timeline won't affect a WAC offer to APU. What may slow an APU offer is their trying to figure out what happens with FB. Their best move would be to join San Diego in the Pioneer (non-scholarship).

Or the Big Sky as an affiliate in football.


big sky is not expanding. jn fact they would rather drop a couple of schools



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Big Sky footbal should add San Diego, which has in the last two years is 2-0 against them in the playoffs. Blew out Cal Poly and NAU on the road with no scholarships. They deserve each other.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2017 07:30 AM by NoDak.)
11-26-2017 07:29 AM
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Post: #136
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-24-2017 07:13 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  I have it on authority of Dana alumni that the school was mismanaged. There are other schools Dana's size that are OK.
Yep. The school was poorly run, put itself up for sale, was going to be sold to some outfit who wanted to make it a for-profit online/correspondence school, and had its accreditation yanked as sort of mercy killing of it.

I have no idea why it's being brought up in a thread about D1 viability or why Blair's thought of as some little town in the middle of nowhere. Blair's maybe 45 minutes from Omaha's airport and Dana was a tiny private college that was happy with its peers in the NAIA's GPAC.
11-27-2017 03:44 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: UMKC Evaluation
I think that UMKC might have gotten a heads up from Cal Bakersfield http://www.bakersfield.com/sports/cal-st...593d6.html
11-27-2017 05:06 PM
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Post: #138
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-24-2017 11:38 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 07:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 07:13 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 05:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-23-2017 03:53 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  Respectfully disagree. I think it's a shame to see a school struggle for years on end to be competitive with no prospect for success in sight, when they could move to a more appropriate level for their budget where they can have success, excitement on campus and probably more seats in the stands. Not everyone belongs in NCAA D1, and it's usually administrative egos that keep them stuck there.

Then, they do get a break out year like southern Nazarene this year. They were more competitive in football winning more games than before at D2. I think they will improve next year if they keep at it.

Sometimes being at lower levels do kind of hurt your image to attract new students. Several schools, mainly in NAIA, shut down like Dana. So, it depends where you are located could shape your future. As it is, Chaminade would not be the smallest D1 school if they move up. Honolulu is a major hub city, so going D1 might bring in more students. Presbyterian is the smallest school. Chaminade would do well in D1 then Presbyterian. The main difference between both schools is that Chaminade is located in a very large town with an airport while schools like Dana and Presbyterian are located in small towns without an airport. I do think that schools located in large towns might do better and benefit at the higher levels than schools in smaller towns with a lack of access and money when they are privates.

I'd hardly call 4-7 a "breakout year". That said, it's still too early to judge SNU; their transition was only a few years ago. My reference was to school who have not been competitive in decades and clearly don't have the money to rebuild.

I have it on authority of Dana alumni that the school was mismanaged. There are other schools Dana's size that are OK.

Presbyterian's endowment is almost 100 million. That gives them a lot of flexibility in offering quality enhancements to their school, athletics programs, scholarships and discounting tuition. And it is also an indication of how much support they have from alumni. Chaminade is the opposite. Pretty much all costs have to come out of student's pockets. No ability to finance NCAA D1 here. And I am curious, since I am not familiar with them, by what measure is Prebyterian considered "successful"?

Presbyterian only had one year which was last that their football team won games over .500. They have never been successful in anything really. That is why they are moving their football to the Pioneer League. Never had great basketball that beats any P5 schools. Chaminade does have success at doing that. That is why I think Chaminade might make it out in D1. Beat a p5 team, attract more students that way, and grow the endowment even more when chaminade beats the big boys at the D1 level. That is why I think they might be the only one from d2 in Hawaii that could be big time in the future.

Chaminade is able to do that because they are able to play on their home court. That N E V E R happens with other D2 and NAIA schools. If it did, those kinds of upsets would be more common. So your standard of measurement is skewed. Chaminade is far from the best D2 school out there, but because of their tournament they are the only ones that can get D1s to play on their home court. You would think they would be able to turn that advantage into being a premiere D2 school, but they can't. Not enough money, apparently. D1 is even further out of reach.

Chaminade's home court is in Honolulu. The tournament is on Maui, 94 miles and an airplane flight away. The Silverswords get to play tournament games in their own time zone but that's their only special advantage.

Having said that, you are correct that D1 is far out of Chaminade's reach. It's a tiny school (1,200 students) with very limited resources.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2017 05:33 PM by HawaiiMongoose.)
11-27-2017 05:32 PM
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Post: #139
RE: UMKC Evaluation
(11-27-2017 03:44 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 07:13 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  I have it on authority of Dana alumni that the school was mismanaged. There are other schools Dana's size that are OK.
Yep. The school was poorly run, put itself up for sale, was going to be sold to some outfit who wanted to make it a for-profit online/correspondence school, and had its accreditation yanked as sort of mercy killing of it.

I have no idea why it's being brought up in a thread about D1 viability or why Blair's thought of as some little town in the middle of nowhere. Blair's maybe 45 minutes from Omaha's airport and Dana was a tiny private college that was happy with its peers in the NAIA's GPAC.


I was just comparing Chaminade with Dana. Between the two, Chaminade would make D1 better than Dana would. I compared Dana as an equal to Presbyterian who should not be in D1.
11-27-2017 06:14 PM
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