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Trump calls for NFL boycott.
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ericsrevenge76 Online
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Post: #521
RE: Trump calls for NFL boycott.
(09-25-2017 11:19 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  
(09-25-2017 11:07 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  See the above, post. You are trying to argue a POTUS giving his opinion is wrong because it forces private business to do something.

Its a fake, straw man argument.

Furthermore this is not a speech issue concerning the players. They are free to say whatever they want on their own time or on social media.

Well they're free to say whatever they want whenever they want. You don't have the ability to dictate when and on what platform. Beyond that, their employer will determine if they want to handle it internally or not.

I simply said that a part of this becomes a 1st issue because government employees are weighing in. You think these players can do this some other time and I certainly think the POTUS could be better focused on other things too. Like PR going through a humanitarian crisis right now.

I already said that as of now since no real action or "harm" has occurred, there is nothing to challenge on 1st grounds. But if an employer is compelled to act due to the president's words, then it would get interesting I think.



I don't even know what you are trying to argue about here or why yuo keep quoting my posts. Their employer absolutely has the right to dictate if they are allowed to protest during work hours. If you are arguing some other point, then don't quote my post when you do it, because this is what I said. Not some random conservative or someone else.

Government employees are not forced to give up their personal opinions simply because they work for the government.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2017 11:32 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
09-25-2017 11:30 PM
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Wooglin157 Offline
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Post: #522
RE: Trump calls for NFL boycott.
But in this instance, it isn't simply a personal opinion. The WH has already said that what Trump says by default is to be considered official WH statements.

So if you have a problem with that, take it up to the WH. They were clear on this. The fact that those statements are required to be preserved, mean they belong to the Office of the President, not the individual person.
09-25-2017 11:37 PM
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Wooglin157 Offline
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Post: #523
RE: Trump calls for NFL boycott.
Oh and...

"My foot hurt too, but I served anyway."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNJUsE7p...e=youtu.be
09-26-2017 12:10 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Online
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Post: #524
RE: Trump calls for NFL boycott.
(09-25-2017 11:37 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  But in this instance, it isn't simply a personal opinion. The WH has already said that what Trump says by default is to be considered official WH statements.

So if you have a problem with that, take it up to the WH. They were clear on this. The fact that those statements are required to be preserved, mean they belong to the Office of the President, not the individual person.


You are splitting hairs and reaching way too hard, Its still his opinion, even if its on his official twitter.

I get it, your heels are dug in just like Trumps are. I could care less about that really. I'm disturbed by both sides of this entire thing, and the fact that so many are so obsessed with this.
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2017 12:51 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
09-26-2017 12:51 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #525
RE: Trump calls for NFL boycott.
(09-26-2017 12:51 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(09-25-2017 11:37 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  But in this instance, it isn't simply a personal opinion. The WH has already said that what Trump says by default is to be considered official WH statements.

So if you have a problem with that, take it up to the WH. They were clear on this. The fact that those statements are required to be preserved, mean they belong to the Office of the President, not the individual person.


You are splitting hairs and reaching way too hard, Its still his opinion, even if its on his official twitter.

I get it, your heels are dug in just like Trumps are. I could care less about that really. I'm disturbed by both sides of this entire thing, and the fact that so many are so obsessed with this.

It makes zero difference. The personal opinion and the opinion of the White House. Opinions aren't law. The president still retains the right to free speech.
09-26-2017 01:43 AM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #526
RE: Trump calls for NFL boycott.
(09-26-2017 01:43 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-26-2017 12:51 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(09-25-2017 11:37 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  But in this instance, it isn't simply a personal opinion. The WH has already said that what Trump says by default is to be considered official WH statements.

So if you have a problem with that, take it up to the WH. They were clear on this. The fact that those statements are required to be preserved, mean they belong to the Office of the President, not the individual person.


You are splitting hairs and reaching way too hard, Its still his opinion, even if its on his official twitter.

I get it, your heels are dug in just like Trumps are. I could care less about that really. I'm disturbed by both sides of this entire thing, and the fact that so many are so obsessed with this.

It makes zero difference. The personal opinion and the opinion of the White House. Opinions aren't law. The president still retains the right to free speech.

Right, but it doesn't look very good when the leader of the Free World is out insulting the mothers of American Citizens.

He can say whatever the hell he wants. NFL players can kneel for the anthem without issue. We as a country are making such a big fuss about something that is so tiny and insignificant overall. I mean, we could be working on finding ways to improve our country, instead everyone is yelling because a bunch of football players took offense to the President of the United States personally insulting them in a speech.

Everybody is in the wrong here. Trump, the NFL, the players, the fans. It's just like constant poor decisions by each side, and now we've got a situation that is spiraling out of control.
09-26-2017 01:49 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #527
RE: Trump calls for NFL boycott.
(09-25-2017 11:03 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  
(09-25-2017 10:59 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  You said word for word he was criticizing a persons use of free speech.

They players are paid employees, its not a free speech issue in any shape, form or fashion.

I think you are struggling bad to make your point, because its not a good one.

I think a government employee trying to use his influence to direct a private employer to do something over speech makes it in part, a free speech issue.

Nope. The right to free speech means the government won't stop you from saying what you want to say. That's all it means. It doesn't mean you have the right to be listened to. It's doesn't guarantee that there are no consequences from your speech from the private sector. It doesnt guarantee that you can't be criticized privately by government officials. It doesn't mean you can't be criticized officially by government officials. It just means that the government will not stop you from saying your piece.
09-26-2017 01:49 AM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #528
RE: Trump calls for NFL boycott.
(09-26-2017 01:49 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-25-2017 11:03 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  
(09-25-2017 10:59 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  You said word for word he was criticizing a persons use of free speech.

They players are paid employees, its not a free speech issue in any shape, form or fashion.

I think you are struggling bad to make your point, because its not a good one.

I think a government employee trying to use his influence to direct a private employer to do something over speech makes it in part, a free speech issue.

Nope. The right to free speech means the government won't stop you from saying what you want to say. That's all it means. It doesn't mean you have the right to be listened to. It's doesn't guarantee that there are no consequences from your speech from the private sector. It doesnt guarantee that you can't be criticized privately by government officials. It doesn't mean you can't be criticized officially by government officials. It just means that the government will not stop you from saying your piece.

The whole term Free Speech is relative anyway because a whole lot of speech is not protected. Then as you mentioned, none of this applies to the private sector. School Teacher in this area recently lost her job because she went on a rant on Facebook and suggested that "All the blacks should move back to Africa"

I once lost out on a job for not rooting for the St Louis Cardinals. Private Sector can pretty much do whatever they want.
09-26-2017 02:07 AM
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Fort Bend Owl Online
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Post: #529
RE: Trump calls for NFL boycott.
I think Trump's special brand of 4D chess is winning out and forcing the NFL into submission. I expect Roger Goodell to tap out any moment now, and announce that he will be working with the White House on the Super Bowl 52 halftime show. They will be very excited to announce that Kid Rock is the halftime entertainer, with special guests Ted Nugent and Lee Greenwood.
09-26-2017 06:16 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #530
RE: Trump calls for NFL boycott.
(09-26-2017 06:16 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I think Trump's special brand of 4D chess is winning out and forcing the NFL into submission. I expect Roger Goodell to tap out any moment now, and announce that he will be working with the White House on the Super Bowl 52 halftime show. They will be very excited to announce that Kid Rock is the halftime entertainer, with special guests Ted Nugent and Lee Greenwood.

That would be terrific! Onlything better would be a Sarah Palin/Tim Tebow Total Eclipse of the Heart duet!
09-26-2017 07:30 AM
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DaSaintFan Offline
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Post: #531
RE: Trump calls for NFL boycott.
(09-25-2017 05:25 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Thats why I have never understood why celebrities would willingly get involved with politics. When your income depends on popularity---why would you do something that turns off half your audience? Why would you do something that turns off 10% of your audience?

It's simple coog, the idea that things like Sports and Movies are totally dependent on popularity doesn't work in the real world.

That's why a boycott goal should always be the products that give the big arena (sports, Hollywood, television) the big money.

Basically the 'stars' know that until the advertisers revenue dries up, people are going to still watch them. You and I as consumers will do very little in terms of damage when they get involved in politics until the boycotts of the sponsors hit across all mediums..
09-26-2017 08:38 AM
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