(10-24-2017 03:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  How could the SEC make a lot more money and not add anyone?
Swap Auburn to the ACC for NC State. Don't laugh. Auburn gets rivals Georgia Tech and Clemson and South Carolina can renew an intense rivalry with NC State.
NC State can continue to play Carolina as an ACC/SEC crossover and Auburn could do the same with Alabama.
Each conference picks up a new state.

(10-25-2017 03:10 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  North: Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska
West: Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St
South: Auburn, Clemson, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida
East: Florida St, Alabama, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

I hadn't really thought about the divisional alignment, but I really like that. That's the probably the best one I've seen for 20.

(10-25-2017 03:24 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  There's a different approach we could take if we try to move to reorganize a P4, but also disassemble both the Big 12 and ACC.

The key is how to break both the Big 12 and ACC GORs simultaneously...

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Houston

They stay at 16 and ESPN gets the PAC Network. The PAC should pretty happy by not having to take a large number of Midwestern schools. Their compromise is they have to take a couple of TX schools they might not otherwise want.

SEC takes Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Nebraska, Florida State, and Clemson

The SEC finishes at 20 by taking key football properties in the Midwest and Southeast. OU and NU are reunited. For one, it's easier for NU to leave than for the B1G to try to conquer the Plains. Nebraska moves to where they can perhaps rebuild their brand while the B1G is allowed to expand into the region they really need and realign for greater balance.

B1G takes Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, and Georgia Tech

The B1G finishes at 20 and gives up NU so they can save themselves. Meanwhile, they get the demographic boost they need along with the brand power of ND.

Now you need a 4th conference to cobble together the remaining decent properties from around the country. The key here is that this 4th leagues needs to be strong enough to make decent money otherwise you'll never get enough schools to break the GORs.

North: Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati
South: Louisville, East Carolina, Tulane, UCF, USF, Miami
West: Baylor, SMU, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Boise State

Essentially, the remaining brands are recognizable and/or tap good markets and/or strong academic schools. None of them are particularly huge revenue creators unto themselves. Cobble them together, however, and the networks should pay a decent price. The basketball would be pretty good too.

Break their GORs?
In today's market the exit fee for the ACC is about $200 million per school. At the very least the SEC and B1G would have to pony up for the schools they were acquiring. The schools that would be left behind (BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Wake Forest and Miami) would be looking to split a bonus of almost TWO BILLION DOLLARS. And, I don't think they will be releasing any of the departing school's GOR until after they collect, do you?

Nobody collects anything if everyone agrees to depart.

The ACC is not a strong league economically so you're splitting hairs.

The schools going to the B1G are better off. The schools going to the SEC are better off. The ones left behind are no worse off and might actually be better off with more diverse market exposure.

Face it, there aren't many schools who just love what the ACC is...

Why would Wake Forest, Syracuse, BC, Miami, Louisville and Pitt depart if they could collect TWO BILLION DOLLARS by staying?

(10-25-2017 04:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:24 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  There's a different approach we could take if we try to move to reorganize a P4, but also disassemble both the Big 12 and ACC.

The key is how to break both the Big 12 and ACC GORs simultaneously...

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Houston

They stay at 16 and ESPN gets the PAC Network. The PAC should pretty happy by not having to take a large number of Midwestern schools. Their compromise is they have to take a couple of TX schools they might not otherwise want.

SEC takes Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Nebraska, Florida State, and Clemson

The SEC finishes at 20 by taking key football properties in the Midwest and Southeast. OU and NU are reunited. For one, it's easier for NU to leave than for the B1G to try to conquer the Plains. Nebraska moves to where they can perhaps rebuild their brand while the B1G is allowed to expand into the region they really need and realign for greater balance.

B1G takes Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, and Georgia Tech

The B1G finishes at 20 and gives up NU so they can save themselves. Meanwhile, they get the demographic boost they need along with the brand power of ND.

Now you need a 4th conference to cobble together the remaining decent properties from around the country. The key here is that this 4th leagues needs to be strong enough to make decent money otherwise you'll never get enough schools to break the GORs.

North: Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati
South: Louisville, East Carolina, Tulane, UCF, USF, Miami
West: Baylor, SMU, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Boise State

Essentially, the remaining brands are recognizable and/or tap good markets and/or strong academic schools. None of them are particularly huge revenue creators unto themselves. Cobble them together, however, and the networks should pay a decent price. The basketball would be pretty good too.

Break their GORs?
In today's market the exit fee for the ACC is about $200 million per school. At the very least the SEC and B1G would have to pony up for the schools they were acquiring. The schools that would be left behind (BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Wake Forest and Miami) would be looking to split a bonus of almost TWO BILLION DOLLARS. And, I don't think they will be releasing any of the departing school's GOR until after they collect, do you?

Nobody collects anything if everyone agrees to depart.

The ACC is not a strong league economically so you're splitting hairs.

The schools going to the B1G are better off. The schools going to the SEC are better off. The ones left behind are no worse off and might actually be better off with more diverse market exposure.

Face it, there aren't many schools who just love what the ACC is...

Why would Wake Forest, Syracuse, BC, Miami, Louisville and Pitt depart if they could collect TWO BILLION DOLLARS by staying?

Because they'd be relegated on the back end by networks who were upset over their plans being ruined. And the networks have far more than 2 billion at stake assuming that's even an accurate number.

Either that or enough of them will be included as to make it a moot point.

Basically, I was trying to get to a P4 where no one had to go beyond 20.

(10-25-2017 05:24 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 04:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:24 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  There's a different approach we could take if we try to move to reorganize a P4, but also disassemble both the Big 12 and ACC.

The key is how to break both the Big 12 and ACC GORs simultaneously...

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Houston

They stay at 16 and ESPN gets the PAC Network. The PAC should pretty happy by not having to take a large number of Midwestern schools. Their compromise is they have to take a couple of TX schools they might not otherwise want.

SEC takes Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Nebraska, Florida State, and Clemson

The SEC finishes at 20 by taking key football properties in the Midwest and Southeast. OU and NU are reunited. For one, it's easier for NU to leave than for the B1G to try to conquer the Plains. Nebraska moves to where they can perhaps rebuild their brand while the B1G is allowed to expand into the region they really need and realign for greater balance.

B1G takes Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, and Georgia Tech

The B1G finishes at 20 and gives up NU so they can save themselves. Meanwhile, they get the demographic boost they need along with the brand power of ND.

Now you need a 4th conference to cobble together the remaining decent properties from around the country. The key here is that this 4th leagues needs to be strong enough to make decent money otherwise you'll never get enough schools to break the GORs.

North: Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati
South: Louisville, East Carolina, Tulane, UCF, USF, Miami
West: Baylor, SMU, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Boise State

Essentially, the remaining brands are recognizable and/or tap good markets and/or strong academic schools. None of them are particularly huge revenue creators unto themselves. Cobble them together, however, and the networks should pay a decent price. The basketball would be pretty good too.

Break their GORs?
In today's market the exit fee for the ACC is about $200 million per school. At the very least the SEC and B1G would have to pony up for the schools they were acquiring. The schools that would be left behind (BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Wake Forest and Miami) would be looking to split a bonus of almost TWO BILLION DOLLARS. And, I don't think they will be releasing any of the departing school's GOR until after they collect, do you?

Nobody collects anything if everyone agrees to depart.

The ACC is not a strong league economically so you're splitting hairs.

The schools going to the B1G are better off. The schools going to the SEC are better off. The ones left behind are no worse off and might actually be better off with more diverse market exposure.

Face it, there aren't many schools who just love what the ACC is...

Why would Wake Forest, Syracuse, BC, Miami, Louisville and Pitt depart if they could collect TWO BILLION DOLLARS by staying?

Because they'd be relegated on the back end by networks who were upset over their plans being ruined. And the networks have far more than 2 billion at stake assuming that's even an accurate number.

Either that or enough of them will be included as to make it a moot point.

Basically, I was trying to get to a P4 where no one had to go beyond 20.

6 schools would be able to keep the ACC from disbanding.
And for a couple of billion, I would take my chances on the networks.

(10-25-2017 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  There's a different approach we could take if we try to move to reorganize a P4, but also disassemble both the Big 12 and ACC.

The key is how to break both the Big 12 and ACC GORs simultaneously...

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Houston

They stay at 16 and ESPN gets the PAC Network. The PAC should pretty happy by not having to take a large number of Midwestern schools. Their compromise is they have to take a couple of TX schools they might not otherwise want.

SEC takes Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Nebraska, Florida State, and Clemson

The SEC finishes at 20 by taking key football properties in the Midwest and Southeast. OU and NU are reunited. For one, it's easier for NU to leave than for the B1G to try to conquer the Plains. Nebraska moves to where they can perhaps rebuild their brand while the B1G is allowed to expand into the region they really need and realign for greater balance.

B1G takes Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, and Georgia Tech

The B1G finishes at 20 and gives up NU so they can save themselves. Meanwhile, they get the demographic boost they need along with the brand power of ND.

Now you need a 4th conference to cobble together the remaining decent properties from around the country. The key here is that this 4th leagues needs to be strong enough to make decent money otherwise you'll never get enough schools to break the GORs.

North: Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati
South: Louisville, East Carolina, Tulane, UCF, USF, Miami
West: Baylor, SMU, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Boise State

Essentially, the remaining brands are recognizable and/or tap good markets and/or strong academic schools. None of them are particularly huge revenue creators unto themselves. Cobble them together, however, and the networks should pay a decent price. The basketball would be pretty good too.

Deal!

(10-25-2017 07:55 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  There's a different approach we could take if we try to move to reorganize a P4, but also disassemble both the Big 12 and ACC.

The key is how to break both the Big 12 and ACC GORs simultaneously...

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Houston

They stay at 16 and ESPN gets the PAC Network. The PAC should pretty happy by not having to take a large number of Midwestern schools. Their compromise is they have to take a couple of TX schools they might not otherwise want.

SEC takes Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Nebraska, Florida State, and Clemson

The SEC finishes at 20 by taking key football properties in the Midwest and Southeast. OU and NU are reunited. For one, it's easier for NU to leave than for the B1G to try to conquer the Plains. Nebraska moves to where they can perhaps rebuild their brand while the B1G is allowed to expand into the region they really need and realign for greater balance.

B1G takes Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, and Georgia Tech

The B1G finishes at 20 and gives up NU so they can save themselves. Meanwhile, they get the demographic boost they need along with the brand power of ND.

Now you need a 4th conference to cobble together the remaining decent properties from around the country. The key here is that this 4th leagues needs to be strong enough to make decent money otherwise you'll never get enough schools to break the GORs.

North: Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati
South: Louisville, East Carolina, Tulane, UCF, USF, Miami
West: Baylor, SMU, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Boise State

Essentially, the remaining brands are recognizable and/or tap good markets and/or strong academic schools. None of them are particularly huge revenue creators unto themselves. Cobble them together, however, and the networks should pay a decent price. The basketball would be pretty good too.

Deal!

Not so fast, We'll pass on Nebraska, drop Kansas, and add Virginia Tech, N.C. State, and go with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech and N.C. State.

You guys can keep Notre Dame, Virginia, Duke, & North Carolina and pick up two of either Syracuse or Boston College or Kansas.

We just aren't giving away a piece of North Carolina and Virginia. ATU's trading credentials have to be checked.

(10-25-2017 08:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 07:55 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  There's a different approach we could take if we try to move to reorganize a P4, but also disassemble both the Big 12 and ACC.

The key is how to break both the Big 12 and ACC GORs simultaneously...

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Houston

They stay at 16 and ESPN gets the PAC Network. The PAC should pretty happy by not having to take a large number of Midwestern schools. Their compromise is they have to take a couple of TX schools they might not otherwise want.

SEC takes Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Nebraska, Florida State, and Clemson

The SEC finishes at 20 by taking key football properties in the Midwest and Southeast. OU and NU are reunited. For one, it's easier for NU to leave than for the B1G to try to conquer the Plains. Nebraska moves to where they can perhaps rebuild their brand while the B1G is allowed to expand into the region they really need and realign for greater balance.

B1G takes Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, and Georgia Tech

The B1G finishes at 20 and gives up NU so they can save themselves. Meanwhile, they get the demographic boost they need along with the brand power of ND.

Now you need a 4th conference to cobble together the remaining decent properties from around the country. The key here is that this 4th leagues needs to be strong enough to make decent money otherwise you'll never get enough schools to break the GORs.

North: Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati
South: Louisville, East Carolina, Tulane, UCF, USF, Miami
West: Baylor, SMU, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Boise State

Essentially, the remaining brands are recognizable and/or tap good markets and/or strong academic schools. None of them are particularly huge revenue creators unto themselves. Cobble them together, however, and the networks should pay a decent price. The basketball would be pretty good too.

Deal!

Not so fast, We'll pass on Nebraska, drop Kansas, and add Virginia Tech, N.C. State, and go with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech and N.C. State.

You guys can keep Notre Dame, Virginia, Duke, & North Carolina and pick up two of either Syracuse or Boston College or Kansas.

We just aren't giving away a piece of North Carolina and Virginia. ATU's trading credentials have to be checked.

Well, if you would have given me the okay on 24 then none of this would have happened.

(10-25-2017 09:02 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 08:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 07:55 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  There's a different approach we could take if we try to move to reorganize a P4, but also disassemble both the Big 12 and ACC.

The key is how to break both the Big 12 and ACC GORs simultaneously...

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Houston

They stay at 16 and ESPN gets the PAC Network. The PAC should pretty happy by not having to take a large number of Midwestern schools. Their compromise is they have to take a couple of TX schools they might not otherwise want.

SEC takes Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Nebraska, Florida State, and Clemson

The SEC finishes at 20 by taking key football properties in the Midwest and Southeast. OU and NU are reunited. For one, it's easier for NU to leave than for the B1G to try to conquer the Plains. Nebraska moves to where they can perhaps rebuild their brand while the B1G is allowed to expand into the region they really need and realign for greater balance.

B1G takes Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, and Georgia Tech

The B1G finishes at 20 and gives up NU so they can save themselves. Meanwhile, they get the demographic boost they need along with the brand power of ND.

Now you need a 4th conference to cobble together the remaining decent properties from around the country. The key here is that this 4th leagues needs to be strong enough to make decent money otherwise you'll never get enough schools to break the GORs.

North: Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati
South: Louisville, East Carolina, Tulane, UCF, USF, Miami
West: Baylor, SMU, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Boise State

Essentially, the remaining brands are recognizable and/or tap good markets and/or strong academic schools. None of them are particularly huge revenue creators unto themselves. Cobble them together, however, and the networks should pay a decent price. The basketball would be pretty good too.

Deal!

Not so fast, We'll pass on Nebraska, drop Kansas, and add Virginia Tech, N.C. State, and go with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech and N.C. State.

You guys can keep Notre Dame, Virginia, Duke, & North Carolina and pick up two of either Syracuse or Boston College or Kansas.

We just aren't giving away a piece of North Carolina and Virginia. ATU's trading credentials have to be checked.

Well, if you would have given me the okay on 24 then none of this would have happened.

We just need to move to 16 and wait.

SEC West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

SEC East: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

From there you add Florida State, Virginia Tech, N.C. State, and Clemson. Or you just say screw it. We have 16 that nobody can touch and stop all the while knowing that no combination of additions will permit another conference to match you. And that if the Big 10 tried to take all of the Virginia and North Carolina schools you already have enough cash to just take what you want.

What everybody else knows and why they all have their demands, agendas, and plans, is that if the SEC acquires just one of Texas and Oklahoma nobody can equal us. If we acquire both we decide who if any we will add and when we will add them.

Our big problem here is not the B1G and certainly not the ACC. Our real issue here is ESPN. I think if they could make a final move for both conferences it would be to land N.D. fully with Texas as the 16th for the ACC and for Oklahoma and Kansas to head to the SEC. But that's only if they don't have further aspirations where the Big 10 is concerned. That would be investment in 3 schools and a bit more in a 4th. That's as cheap as it gets in 2024-5.

So we'll see. If FOX or the Big 10 try to play hardball those 4 I mentioned will be the play.

And at this point I don't think anyone gives a hoot about what the PAC does or doesn't do. There's not enough interest there to make the returns shift much one way or the other in the gross revenue ledger.

If ESPN wants a bigger slice of the Big 10 all they have to do is send Notre Dame and Virginia there. Why? They only have a slither of N.D. and they have Virginia covered with Virginia Tech. They keep the Carolina four happy and then add Texas, West Virginia, Kansas and either T.C.U. or Texas Tech to the ACC.

The SEC lands the two Oklahoma's and the Big 10, SEC, and ACC are all still okay. The SEC has the lead, the ACC plays catch up with 16 all in. And Delany gets Moby Dame and the Beltway.

Yep! Slide Auburn into the ACC as NC State moves to the SEC. It wouldn't cost ESPN a penny. The folks at Auburn would still get their same money and NC State could actually get an increase since the SECN would be able to charge a higher rate in North Carolina. The ACC would benefit too as they could get the in-state rate for Alabama.
This does solve the original question posed by this thread.....right?
It's possible to take things a step further and consider swapping Vanderbilt for Virginia Tech too.

This might give us a conference that looks like this:

Notre Dame, Texas, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Miami.
Auburn, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, UVa.

That's 13 different states with the only duplicates in Florida and North Carolina.
7 1/2 privates and 8 1/2 publics.
Three Public Ivy schools and two runners-up.


The SEC could then be:
West Virginia, Kentucky, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, NC State, Missouri, Ole Miss, TCU/Oklahoma
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi State, Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida

(10-26-2017 03:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  Yep! Slide Auburn into the ACC as NC State moves to the SEC. It wouldn't cost ESPN a penny. The folks at Auburn would still get their same money and NC State could actually get an increase since the SECN would be able to charge a higher rate in North Carolina. The ACC would benefit too as they could get the in-state rate for Alabama.
This does solve the original question posed by this thread.....right?
It's possible to take things a step further and consider swapping Vanderbilt for Virginia Tech too.

This might give us a conference that looks like this:

Notre Dame, Texas, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Miami.
Auburn, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, UVa.

That's 13 different states with the only duplicates in Florida and North Carolina.
7 1/2 privates and 8 1/2 publics.
Three Public Ivy schools and two runners-up.


The SEC could then be:
West Virginia, Kentucky, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, NC State, Missouri, Ole Miss, TCU/Oklahoma
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi State, Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida

Divorcing myself from my obvious bias I at least think that would make for an interesting debate. N.C. State and Virginia Tech for Auburn and Vanderbilt. I'd say the SEC would have to think about it. And at least Vanderbilt and Auburn would have a germ of a temptation. Academics and the ability to compete more fully for Vanderbilt and Auburn's oldest rival (Georgia Tech) and Florida State and Clemson would have some appeal.

Auburn being the 11th grossing revenue producer in the nation, and the 10th most valuable program might be a sticking point however. But the markets gained would be something the other 12 would have to consider.

But remember the money would have to be the same if this were to ever be considered and since there is no way in hell it is ever going to be equal........

(10-26-2017 04:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 03:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  Yep! Slide Auburn into the ACC as NC State moves to the SEC. It wouldn't cost ESPN a penny. The folks at Auburn would still get their same money and NC State could actually get an increase since the SECN would be able to charge a higher rate in North Carolina. The ACC would benefit too as they could get the in-state rate for Alabama.
This does solve the original question posed by this thread.....right?
It's possible to take things a step further and consider swapping Vanderbilt for Virginia Tech too.

This might give us a conference that looks like this:

Notre Dame, Texas, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Miami.
Auburn, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, UVa.

That's 13 different states with the only duplicates in Florida and North Carolina.
7 1/2 privates and 8 1/2 publics.
Three Public Ivy schools and two runners-up.


The SEC could then be:
West Virginia, Kentucky, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, NC State, Missouri, Ole Miss, TCU/Oklahoma
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi State, Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida

Divorcing myself from my obvious bias I at least think that would make for an interesting debate. N.C. State and Virginia Tech for Auburn and Vanderbilt. I'd say the SEC would have to think about it. And at least Vanderbilt and Auburn would have a germ of a temptation. Academics and the ability to compete more fully for Vanderbilt and Auburn's oldest rival (Georgia Tech) and Florida State and Clemson would have some appeal.

Auburn being the 11th grossing revenue producer in the nation, and the 10th most valuable program might be a sticking point however. But the markets gained would be something the other 12 would have to consider.

But remember the money would have to be the same if this were to ever be considered and since there is no way in hell it is ever going to be equal........

Don't feel too bad about Auburn. They would still be in the top 4 in the new conference in gross revenue and value.

(10-26-2017 08:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 04:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 03:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  Yep! Slide Auburn into the ACC as NC State moves to the SEC. It wouldn't cost ESPN a penny. The folks at Auburn would still get their same money and NC State could actually get an increase since the SECN would be able to charge a higher rate in North Carolina. The ACC would benefit too as they could get the in-state rate for Alabama.
This does solve the original question posed by this thread.....right?
It's possible to take things a step further and consider swapping Vanderbilt for Virginia Tech too.

This might give us a conference that looks like this:

Notre Dame, Texas, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Miami.
Auburn, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, UVa.

That's 13 different states with the only duplicates in Florida and North Carolina.
7 1/2 privates and 8 1/2 publics.
Three Public Ivy schools and two runners-up.


The SEC could then be:
West Virginia, Kentucky, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, NC State, Missouri, Ole Miss, TCU/Oklahoma
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi State, Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida

Divorcing myself from my obvious bias I at least think that would make for an interesting debate. N.C. State and Virginia Tech for Auburn and Vanderbilt. I'd say the SEC would have to think about it. And at least Vanderbilt and Auburn would have a germ of a temptation. Academics and the ability to compete more fully for Vanderbilt and Auburn's oldest rival (Georgia Tech) and Florida State and Clemson would have some appeal.

Auburn being the 11th grossing revenue producer in the nation, and the 10th most valuable program might be a sticking point however. But the markets gained would be something the other 12 would have to consider.

But remember the money would have to be the same if this were to ever be considered and since there is no way in hell it is ever going to be equal........

Don't feel too bad about Auburn. They would still be in the top 4 in the new conference in gross revenue and value.

Hey dummy, you can't add & subtract can you? Auburn at the same pay, would be #1 in the ACC and by a wide margin!

If the ACC wants Vandy I'd want Miami.

Auburn, Vanderbilt, Florida State, Mississippi State, Clemson, Louisville, Texas, Georgia Tech
Notre Dame, Boston College, Pitt, Virginia, Duke, Wake, Syracuse, UNC

Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss, LSU, A&M, Alabama, Kansas
NC State, Virginia Tech, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Miami

Yes, I'm aware of the awkwardness of a Kansas but Mizzou is there already and if you add them with OU then Arkansas will feel less isolated, not to mention TAMU and LSU. The Big Ten has in-roads in the Kansas City market with Nebraska so it could be argued that Kansas may be better off going to the SEC and helping you take a bigger slice of that market. Miami would be the private school that can replace Vandy and also be the second Florida school to join without having to reach into the G5 pool.

So the SEC would have presence in: Atlanta, Miami, Houston, Tampa, Raleigh, Dallas/Ft. Worth, New Orleans, Kansas City and St. Louis. They lose a presence in Nashville, some of Mississippi and Alabama.

This is the type of bargain I would make if I'm the SEC and the ACC wants my help to save them. And if the ACC people don't like it then that should tell you who has the leverage here.

(10-27-2017 01:04 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  If the ACC wants Vandy I'd want Miami.

Auburn, Vanderbilt, Florida State, Mississippi State, Clemson, Louisville, Texas, Georgia Tech
Notre Dame, Boston College, Pitt, Virginia, Duke, Wake, Syracuse, UNC

Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss, LSU, A&M, Alabama, Kansas
NC State, Virginia Tech, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Miami

Yes, I'm aware of the awkwardness of a Kansas but Mizzou is there already and if you add them with OU then Arkansas will feel less isolated, not to mention TAMU and LSU. The Big Ten has in-roads in the Kansas City market with Nebraska so it could be argued that Kansas may be better off going to the SEC and helping you take a bigger slice of that market. Miami would be the private school that can replace Vandy and also be the second Florida school to join without having to reach into the G5 pool.

So the SEC would have presence in: Atlanta, Miami, Houston, Tampa, Raleigh, Dallas/Ft. Worth, New Orleans, Kansas City and St. Louis. They lose a presence in Nashville, some of Mississippi and Alabama.

This is the type of bargain I would make if I'm the SEC and the ACC wants my help to save them. And if the ACC people don't like it then that should tell you who has the leverage here.

Interesting.
I appreciate the offer, but the ACC certainly does not need the SEC (or any member of the SEC) to save them. We're doing quite well, and winning championships, thank you.

(10-25-2017 03:24 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  There's a different approach we could take if we try to move to reorganize a P4, but also disassemble both the Big 12 and ACC.

The key is how to break both the Big 12 and ACC GORs simultaneously...

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Houston

They stay at 16 and ESPN gets the PAC Network. The PAC should pretty happy by not having to take a large number of Midwestern schools. Their compromise is they have to take a couple of TX schools they might not otherwise want.

SEC takes Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Nebraska, Florida State, and Clemson

The SEC finishes at 20 by taking key football properties in the Midwest and Southeast. OU and NU are reunited. For one, it's easier for NU to leave than for the B1G to try to conquer the Plains. Nebraska moves to where they can perhaps rebuild their brand while the B1G is allowed to expand into the region they really need and realign for greater balance.

B1G takes Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, and Georgia Tech

The B1G finishes at 20 and gives up NU so they can save themselves. Meanwhile, they get the demographic boost they need along with the brand power of ND.

Now you need a 4th conference to cobble together the remaining decent properties from around the country. The key here is that this 4th leagues needs to be strong enough to make decent money otherwise you'll never get enough schools to break the GORs.

North: Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati
South: Louisville, East Carolina, Tulane, UCF, USF, Miami
West: Baylor, SMU, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Boise State

Essentially, the remaining brands are recognizable and/or tap good markets and/or strong academic schools. None of them are particularly huge revenue creators unto themselves. Cobble them together, however, and the networks should pay a decent price. The basketball would be pretty good too.

Break their GORs?
In today's market the exit fee for the ACC is about $200 million per school. At the very least the SEC and B1G would have to pony up for the schools they were acquiring. The schools that would be left behind (BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Wake Forest and Miami) would be looking to split a bonus of almost TWO BILLION DOLLARS. And, I don't think they will be releasing any of the departing school's GOR until after they collect, do you?

Nobody collects anything if everyone agrees to depart.

The ACC is not a strong league economically so you're splitting hairs.

The schools going to the B1G are better off. The schools going to the SEC are better off. The ones left behind are no worse off and might actually be better off with more diverse market exposure.

Face it, there aren't many schools who just love what the ACC is...

I don't see Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, Miami & WF voting to disband the ACC for that conference. For instance, would you willingly trade FSU & Clemson in football for ECU & Tulane? Would you willingly drop NC & Duke in basketball? From a Louisville standpoint, gaining Cincinnati, WV & UCONN wouldn't be worth dropping FSU, Clemson, NC, Duke & ND. The votes aren't there.


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(10-25-2017 03:24 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  There's a different approach we could take if we try to move to reorganize a P4, but also disassemble both the Big 12 and ACC.

The key is how to break both the Big 12 and ACC GORs simultaneously...

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Houston

They stay at 16 and ESPN gets the PAC Network. The PAC should pretty happy by not having to take a large number of Midwestern schools. Their compromise is they have to take a couple of TX schools they might not otherwise want.

SEC takes Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Nebraska, Florida State, and Clemson

The SEC finishes at 20 by taking key football properties in the Midwest and Southeast. OU and NU are reunited. For one, it's easier for NU to leave than for the B1G to try to conquer the Plains. Nebraska moves to where they can perhaps rebuild their brand while the B1G is allowed to expand into the region they really need and realign for greater balance.

B1G takes Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, and Georgia Tech

The B1G finishes at 20 and gives up NU so they can save themselves. Meanwhile, they get the demographic boost they need along with the brand power of ND.

Now you need a 4th conference to cobble together the remaining decent properties from around the country. The key here is that this 4th leagues needs to be strong enough to make decent money otherwise you'll never get enough schools to break the GORs.

North: Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Cincinnati
South: Louisville, East Carolina, Tulane, UCF, USF, Miami
West: Baylor, SMU, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Boise State

Essentially, the remaining brands are recognizable and/or tap good markets and/or strong academic schools. None of them are particularly huge revenue creators unto themselves. Cobble them together, however, and the networks should pay a decent price. The basketball would be pretty good too.

Break their GORs?
In today's market the exit fee for the ACC is about $200 million per school. At the very least the SEC and B1G would have to pony up for the schools they were acquiring. The schools that would be left behind (BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Wake Forest and Miami) would be looking to split a bonus of almost TWO BILLION DOLLARS. And, I don't think they will be releasing any of the departing school's GOR until after they collect, do you?

Nobody collects anything if everyone agrees to depart.

The ACC is not a strong league economically so you're splitting hairs.

The schools going to the B1G are better off. The schools going to the SEC are better off. The ones left behind are no worse off and might actually be better off with more diverse market exposure.

Face it, there aren't many schools who just love what the ACC is...

I don't see Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, Miami & WF voting to disband the ACC for that conference. For instance, would you willingly trade FSU & Clemson in football for ECU & Tulane? Would you willingly drop NC & Duke in basketball? From a Louisville standpoint, gaining Cincinnati, WV & UCONN wouldn't be worth dropping FSU, Clemson, NC, Duke & ND. The votes aren't there, especially with $2 billion in exit fees plus the GoR looming over their heads.


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(10-26-2017 11:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 08:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 04:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 03:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  Yep! Slide Auburn into the ACC as NC State moves to the SEC. It wouldn't cost ESPN a penny. The folks at Auburn would still get their same money and NC State could actually get an increase since the SECN would be able to charge a higher rate in North Carolina. The ACC would benefit too as they could get the in-state rate for Alabama.
This does solve the original question posed by this thread.....right?
It's possible to take things a step further and consider swapping Vanderbilt for Virginia Tech too.

This might give us a conference that looks like this:

Notre Dame, Texas, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Miami.
Auburn, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, UVa.

That's 13 different states with the only duplicates in Florida and North Carolina.
7 1/2 privates and 8 1/2 publics.
Three Public Ivy schools and two runners-up.


The SEC could then be:
West Virginia, Kentucky, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, NC State, Missouri, Ole Miss, TCU/Oklahoma
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi State, Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida

Divorcing myself from my obvious bias I at least think that would make for an interesting debate. N.C. State and Virginia Tech for Auburn and Vanderbilt. I'd say the SEC would have to think about it. And at least Vanderbilt and Auburn would have a germ of a temptation. Academics and the ability to compete more fully for Vanderbilt and Auburn's oldest rival (Georgia Tech) and Florida State and Clemson would have some appeal.

Auburn being the 11th grossing revenue producer in the nation, and the 10th most valuable program might be a sticking point however. But the markets gained would be something the other 12 would have to consider.

But remember the money would have to be the same if this were to ever be considered and since there is no way in hell it is ever going to be equal........

Don't feel too bad about Auburn. They would still be in the top 4 in the new conference in gross revenue and value.

Hey dummy, you can't add & subtract can you? Auburn at the same pay, would be #1 in the ACC and by a wide margin!

First of all, I am no dummy.
Secondly, I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but from everything I read you would still be behind Texas and Notre Dame.
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-programs/

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/the-2...ms-122215/

(10-29-2017 10:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 11:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 08:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 04:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 03:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  Yep! Slide Auburn into the ACC as NC State moves to the SEC. It wouldn't cost ESPN a penny. The folks at Auburn would still get their same money and NC State could actually get an increase since the SECN would be able to charge a higher rate in North Carolina. The ACC would benefit too as they could get the in-state rate for Alabama.
This does solve the original question posed by this thread.....right?
It's possible to take things a step further and consider swapping Vanderbilt for Virginia Tech too.

This might give us a conference that looks like this:

Notre Dame, Texas, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Miami.
Auburn, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, UVa.

That's 13 different states with the only duplicates in Florida and North Carolina.
7 1/2 privates and 8 1/2 publics.
Three Public Ivy schools and two runners-up.


The SEC could then be:
West Virginia, Kentucky, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, NC State, Missouri, Ole Miss, TCU/Oklahoma
Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi State, Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida

Divorcing myself from my obvious bias I at least think that would make for an interesting debate. N.C. State and Virginia Tech for Auburn and Vanderbilt. I'd say the SEC would have to think about it. And at least Vanderbilt and Auburn would have a germ of a temptation. Academics and the ability to compete more fully for Vanderbilt and Auburn's oldest rival (Georgia Tech) and Florida State and Clemson would have some appeal.

Auburn being the 11th grossing revenue producer in the nation, and the 10th most valuable program might be a sticking point however. But the markets gained would be something the other 12 would have to consider.

But remember the money would have to be the same if this were to ever be considered and since there is no way in hell it is ever going to be equal........

Don't feel too bad about Auburn. They would still be in the top 4 in the new conference in gross revenue and value.

Hey dummy, you can't add & subtract can you? Auburn at the same pay, would be #1 in the ACC and by a wide margin!

First of all, I am no dummy.
Secondly, I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but from everything I read you would still be behind Texas and Notre Dame.
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-programs/

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/the-2...ms-122215/

The scenario you gave didn't include Notre Dame (in full) and Texas. It was I believe Vandy and Auburn for Virginia Tech and N.C. State. So we would be significantly ahead of Florida State which would be your top earner of the full and present ACC members. But OKTC is about as reliable as the Bleacher Report.

And really X, an article from 2015? I have the current numbers at the top of the page.

(10-29-2017 10:32 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-29-2017 10:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 11:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 08:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 04:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Divorcing myself from my obvious bias I at least think that would make for an interesting debate. N.C. State and Virginia Tech for Auburn and Vanderbilt. I'd say the SEC would have to think about it. And at least Vanderbilt and Auburn would have a germ of a temptation. Academics and the ability to compete more fully for Vanderbilt and Auburn's oldest rival (Georgia Tech) and Florida State and Clemson would have some appeal.

Auburn being the 11th grossing revenue producer in the nation, and the 10th most valuable program might be a sticking point however. But the markets gained would be something the other 12 would have to consider.

But remember the money would have to be the same if this were to ever be considered and since there is no way in hell it is ever going to be equal........

Don't feel too bad about Auburn. They would still be in the top 4 in the new conference in gross revenue and value.

Hey dummy, you can't add & subtract can you? Auburn at the same pay, would be #1 in the ACC and by a wide margin!

First of all, I am no dummy.
Secondly, I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but from everything I read you would still be behind Texas and Notre Dame.
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-programs/

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/the-2...ms-122215/

The scenario you gave didn't include Notre Dame (in full) and Texas. It was I believe Vandy and Auburn for Virginia Tech and N.C. State. So we would be significantly ahead of Florida State which would be your top earner of the full and present ACC members. But OKTC is about as reliable as the Bleacher Report.

And really X, an article from 2015? I have the current numbers at the top of the page.

Your reading comprehension needs some remedial work JR. But even so, that's one heck of a league and covers a lot of real estate.

This might give us a conference that looks like this:

Notre Dame, Texas, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Miami.
Auburn, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, UVa.