(11-15-2017 12:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 11:32 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 11:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 04:36 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Sounds like big government failed again.

You're right. We should just give felons a gun on their way out of prison right?

Your reply is nonsensical, unless I've missed your point.

The point is that no law will stop anyone from committing a crime 100% of the time.

Some of the logic used in this and other forums is that this is why gun control doesn't work.

I was being sarcastic by making the point that if we use the logic that gun control doesn't work because some people will always break the law, then why do we have laws in place in the first place. Let's just give felons a gun since they are going to get them anyway right?

But the problem with your trolling is this: There were plenty of opportunities for authorities to deal with this and they didn't. Just like the Texas shooting this wasn't a case of a lack of laws but a lack of enforcement. What's the point of adding new laws when authorities aren't enforcing the ones already on the books?

Once again you logic is flawed. Just because a person here or there falls through the cracks doesn't mean the law isn't being enforced.

We have border security up the ying yang but just because a few immigrants get through, people like you say we aren't enforcing the border.

Why is it all or nothing with you guys. You dont' throw the baby out with the bath water.

(11-15-2017 12:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 11:32 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 11:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  You're right. We should just give felons a gun on their way out of prison right?

Your reply is nonsensical, unless I've missed your point.

The point is that no law will stop anyone from committing a crime 100% of the time.

Some of the logic used in this and other forums is that this is why gun control doesn't work.

I was being sarcastic by making the point that if we use the logic that gun control doesn't work because some people will always break the law, then why do we have laws in place in the first place. Let's just give felons a gun since they are going to get them anyway right?

But the problem with your trolling is this: There were plenty of opportunities for authorities to deal with this and they didn't. Just like the Texas shooting this wasn't a case of a lack of laws but a lack of enforcement. What's the point of adding new laws when authorities aren't enforcing the ones already on the books?

Once again you logic is flawed. Just because a person here or there falls through the cracks doesn't mean the law isn't being enforced.

We have border security up the ying yang but just because a few immigrants get through, people like you say we aren't enforcing the border.

Why is it all or nothing with you guys. You dont' throw the baby out with the bath water.

Fall through the cracks??? This was a systematic, fundamental failure TWICE, not a simple mistake.

(11-15-2017 01:05 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 11:32 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Your reply is nonsensical, unless I've missed your point.

The point is that no law will stop anyone from committing a crime 100% of the time.

Some of the logic used in this and other forums is that this is why gun control doesn't work.

I was being sarcastic by making the point that if we use the logic that gun control doesn't work because some people will always break the law, then why do we have laws in place in the first place. Let's just give felons a gun since they are going to get them anyway right?

But the problem with your trolling is this: There were plenty of opportunities for authorities to deal with this and they didn't. Just like the Texas shooting this wasn't a case of a lack of laws but a lack of enforcement. What's the point of adding new laws when authorities aren't enforcing the ones already on the books?

Once again you logic is flawed. Just because a person here or there falls through the cracks doesn't mean the law isn't being enforced.

We have border security up the ying yang but just because a few immigrants get through, people like you say we aren't enforcing the border.

Why is it all or nothing with you guys. You dont' throw the baby out with the bath water.

Fall through the cracks??? This was a systematic, fundamental failure TWICE, not a simple mistake.

Then let's reform the system. Would you be against that?

(11-15-2017 12:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 11:32 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 11:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 04:36 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 04:32 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Unverified at this point, but being reported the shooter was a felon.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/11/rancho-teh...ol-deaths/


Last time I checked it was illegal for felons to possess firearms. (I'm just as shocked as everyone else that a felon ignored the law) If the authorities were called why wasn't he in jail?

Sounds like big government failed again.

You're right. We should just give felons a gun on their way out of prison right?

Your reply is nonsensical, unless I've missed your point.

The point is that no law will stop anyone from committing a crime 100% of the time.

Some of the logic used in this and other forums is that this is why gun control doesn't work.

I was being sarcastic by making the point that if we use the logic that gun control doesn't work because some people will always break the law, then why do we have laws in place in the first place. Let's just give felons a gun since they are going to get them anyway right?

Thanks for the explanation.

Of course we have to have laws. In essence, laws identify unacceptable behavior and define punishment for engaging in that behavior.

In some cases the very threat of facing punishment serves as an adequate deterrent, but obviously not in all cases.

For those instances where the threat of punishment does not deter people, society tries to find other ways to discourage those people from engaging in unacceptable behavior.

The idea that additional laws -- that is, another item added to the list of unacceptable behavior coupled with defined punishment -- will succeed as a deterrent where previously existing laws failed is laughable.

As we look at these types of solutions -- additional laws & regulations -- we rationally understand them to be fruitless. We begin to wonder about the motive behind those solutions. Too many times the solutions would have a detrimental impact on those people who are already considered law-abiding. Why specifically target these people unless there's an ulterior motive.

When the end result of a new law or regulation is the removal of guns from law-abiding citizens the rational assumption is that the new laws are designed to impact not the criminal but the average Joe.


If we think new laws are needed then they should focus on the problem. In the past couple of cases regarding these shootings it was the fault of governmental agencies. Their neglect resulted in existing laws being rendered useless.

It these cases, we might want laws which punish the agency and/or the specific employees which failed to act according to procedure.

In the case of an agency, it could lose a percentage of its budget allocation. The agency might be required to audit its policies and procedures and make corrective changes. Employees might be required to attend training. Employees might be docked in pay, put on suspension or lose their jobs.

The solution should have an end that ties back to correcting the specific problem.

The solution should NOT be penalizing citizens by ignoring the Constitution.

(11-15-2017 01:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 01:05 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The point is that no law will stop anyone from committing a crime 100% of the time.

Some of the logic used in this and other forums is that this is why gun control doesn't work.

I was being sarcastic by making the point that if we use the logic that gun control doesn't work because some people will always break the law, then why do we have laws in place in the first place. Let's just give felons a gun since they are going to get them anyway right?

But the problem with your trolling is this: There were plenty of opportunities for authorities to deal with this and they didn't. Just like the Texas shooting this wasn't a case of a lack of laws but a lack of enforcement. What's the point of adding new laws when authorities aren't enforcing the ones already on the books?

Once again you logic is flawed. Just because a person here or there falls through the cracks doesn't mean the law isn't being enforced.

We have border security up the ying yang but just because a few immigrants get through, people like you say we aren't enforcing the border.

Why is it all or nothing with you guys. You dont' throw the baby out with the bath water.

Fall through the cracks??? This was a systematic, fundamental failure TWICE, not a simple mistake.

Then let's reform the system. Would you be against that?

Exactly! That is the approach to take. Not violating the constitutional rights of law-abiding Americans.

(11-15-2017 01:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 01:05 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The point is that no law will stop anyone from committing a crime 100% of the time.

Some of the logic used in this and other forums is that this is why gun control doesn't work.

I was being sarcastic by making the point that if we use the logic that gun control doesn't work because some people will always break the law, then why do we have laws in place in the first place. Let's just give felons a gun since they are going to get them anyway right?

But the problem with your trolling is this: There were plenty of opportunities for authorities to deal with this and they didn't. Just like the Texas shooting this wasn't a case of a lack of laws but a lack of enforcement. What's the point of adding new laws when authorities aren't enforcing the ones already on the books?

Once again you logic is flawed. Just because a person here or there falls through the cracks doesn't mean the law isn't being enforced.

We have border security up the ying yang but just because a few immigrants get through, people like you say we aren't enforcing the border.

Why is it all or nothing with you guys. You dont' throw the baby out with the bath water.

Fall through the cracks??? This was a systematic, fundamental failure TWICE, not a simple mistake.

Then let's reform the system. Would you be against that?

Sure.

Make it a felony offense if a government official at any level of government doesn't do their job and because of that someone commits a mass shooting.

Also remove the damages cap on the government. When they screw up like in Texas and here the victim's families should be able to sue the government for more than the pittance the law allows.

(11-15-2017 02:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 01:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 01:05 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 12:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  But the problem with your trolling is this: There were plenty of opportunities for authorities to deal with this and they didn't. Just like the Texas shooting this wasn't a case of a lack of laws but a lack of enforcement. What's the point of adding new laws when authorities aren't enforcing the ones already on the books?

Once again you logic is flawed. Just because a person here or there falls through the cracks doesn't mean the law isn't being enforced.

We have border security up the ying yang but just because a few immigrants get through, people like you say we aren't enforcing the border.

Why is it all or nothing with you guys. You dont' throw the baby out with the bath water.

Fall through the cracks??? This was a systematic, fundamental failure TWICE, not a simple mistake.

Then let's reform the system. Would you be against that?

Sure.

Make it a felony offense if a government official at any level of government doesn't do their job and because of that someone commits a mass shooting.

Also remove the damages cap on the government. When they screw up like in Texas and here the victim's families should be able to sue the government for more than the pittance the law allows.

We have an accord

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/califo...ar-BBF3lmJ

Apologies if this has been mentioned already but apparently the shooter had two rifles which he had made himself from kits he bought over the internet. While making a 'ghost gun' is legal, selling one is not. Federal officials are trying to crack down on illegal mills where such guns are built and sold.

Another loophole that wouldn't be tough to fix.

(11-16-2017 10:54 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/califo...ar-BBF3lmJ

Apologies if this has been mentioned already but apparently the shooter had two rifles which he had made himself from kits he bought over the internet. While making a 'ghost gun' is legal, selling one is not. Federal officials are trying to crack down on illegal mills where such guns are built and sold.

Another loophole that wouldn't be tough to fix.

Unless you are going to ban milling machines and require background checks for each and every internal part of a firearm there is absolutely no way to close this loophole.

Lol.

And a home milled rifle accounts for exactly how many already illegal murders each year?

But we have to do SOMETHING!!!


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