(11-16-2017 04:30 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Jackson State. if they could shake things up in their athletics department by upgrading after fundraising? They could fit into SBC in the future. Large tv market and finally get a school in Mississippi for the conference. FA&M should have made the move to FBS long ago. They could be in the SBC now. Southern seems not to be hurt by enrollment. NC Central and NC A&T not doing bad. Bethune-Cookman have been not bad in football, and they were the recent schools of the HBCUs that have beaten an FBS school.

The schools that are hurt the most are the ones that are in the same town as other schools. Savannah State was in competition for students with Armstrong State now part of Georgia Southern. As it is, MEAC and SWAC are more spread out, and they could actually worked better if they were in four conferences. That means splt both conferences into 4 parts.

MEAC South
MEAC north
SWAC West
SWAC South
Savannah State, Fort Valley State, South Carolina State, Bethune cookman, Florida A&M, Alabama A&M, Alabama State, Tuskegee, Clark Atlanta, could be MEAC South group.

In the 90's there were a number of meetings to discuss an "integrated" league. Arkansas State, Louisiana Lafayette, Louisiana Tech and Northern Illinois were the existing I-A's asked to come to the meetings sponsored by the group trying to form a bowl in Mobile (at the time bowls needed 50k seats unless hosting a conference champion). Various mixes of HBCU's were invited, Jackson State, Grambling, Southern, FAMU were the core with others like Alabama A&M, Alabama State, NCCU, NC A&T bandied about.

Jackson State and FAMU were the only HBCU's that expressed any interest at the time.

(11-16-2017 12:29 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Not all of the HBCUs are struggling with students. Grambling, Southern, Jackson State, Alabama State, Florida A&M, Bethune Cookman, Tennessee State are some that have gone up in students the past year. UAPB is struggling to attract students. They belong in the GAC. Arkansas Tech could make it as a lower rung D1 school with the like of 12,000 students round up. Some D2 HBCUs do better attracting students than some of the FCS ones.

Filling up a Freshman class isn't the issue. Six year graduation rates, student debt, and payment delinquency is. Bethune Cookman has borrowed from its endowment for the past few years to cover operating losses. It hard to fundraiser for athletics when HBCU students borrow more $$$ on average and have less success making progress to pay off the debt after six years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grad...37564bdcfc

As 'arkstfan', mentioned Hampton typically does not have students with the massive students debt which most HBCU students carry to the point, they're considered a "low debt university" with the third largest endowment of HBCUs.

Big South will actually be up to 8 in football for the 2019 season- as if you remember North Alabama will be joining for football only then.

Delaware State could fit in here nicely.

http://www.bigsouthsports.com/news/2...ll-member.aspx

Big South Adds Hampton University as Full Member
SPARTANBURG, S.C. (http://www.BigSouthSports.com) – The Big South Conference has added Hampton University as a full member effective with the 2018-19 academic year, it was announced this morning at a press conference in the Student Center Theater on Hampton’s campus. Hampton’s membership begins July 1, 2018 and increases the Big South membership to 12 next fall with the addition of USC Upstate yesterday.

“On behalf of the entire membership of the Big South Conference -- student/athletes, coaches and presidents, we are pleased and very excited to welcome the community of Hampton University to the conference,” said Mary Grant, Big South President and UNC Asheville Chancellor. “Hampton’s rich history and tradition both athletically and academically aligns perfectly with the ideals and core values of the Big South Conference.”

The Pirates sponsor 17 varsity sports at the Division I level, 16 of which are sponsored by the Big South: football, men’s and women’s basketball, women’s soccer, men’s and women’s cross country, men’s and women’s tennis, men’s and women’s indoor and outdoor track & field, softball, men’s and women’s golf, and women’s volleyball. Only men’s lacrosse will not compete in the Big South. Hampton will be immediately eligible for conference championships, while its football program will officially start its Big South association no later than 2019.

“The move to the Big South Conference is just another part of an exciting year at Hampton University,” said Hampton President Dr. William R. Harvey. “Institutions in the Big South are located in Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina, which means that our student athletes will spend less time traveling and more time in classes on campus. This keeps the proper focus on academics, which is our chief reason for being. The smaller geographic footprint will also reduce travel expenses. Another important consideration is the large number of alumni located in the Big South region.”

(11-16-2017 04:07 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  On the HBCUs, I think a shake up is coming. Many are very sick. The market place is changing against them, so they need to adapt or die out.

Hampton is private, so is competing for students who can cover the $40K per year in tuition. Doe snot matter if this mom's and dad's money or if it is from grants (scholarships), aid. So they are competing against schools recruiting such students, including African-American. Thus aligning with private schools in the Big South makes sense. For a school like Howard with an even better reputation, they are competing against schools like Hofstra, Northeastern, Furman, and to some extent GMU and GWU. Associating and aligning with a bunch of small hand to mouth, low standard public schools of the MEAC is long term institutional suicide. Those schools are increasingly attracting only Community College level students with no funding, and the schools are academically emaciated.

I agree that FAMU would not drop down if Howard left (they are a linchpin for the MEAC according to a sportswriter covering the league I conversed with), but several others might. FAMU could always join the A-SUN and put football in the Big South. Howard I am less sure where they would go, but the Big South would make sense if that league loses another member. I think they would rather be in the SoCon and eventually be in the CAA.

But schools like Coppin State, South Carolina State, Savannah State, and even Delaware State and UMES probably should not be in D-I in the first place. That women make up over 60% at every one of the MEAC schools should also dampen at the leats football. I swear half the schools in the MEAC and SWAC are in D-I strictly for the marching bands.

I totally agree.

yeah 1 thing with the football is they'll be able to go up from 6 conference games up to 8 conference games. That'll help the league out a lot.

I think you would see FAMU going to the Big South or join the SWAC. FAMU could possibly go Independent for a couple of years to test the waters.

(11-16-2017 04:07 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  On the HBCUs, I think a shake up is coming. Many are very sick. The market place is changing against them, so they need to adapt or die out.

Hampton is private, so is competing for students who can cover the $40K per year in tuition. Doe snot matter if this mom's and dad's money or if it is from grants (scholarships), aid. So they are competing against schools recruiting such students, including African-American. Thus aligning with private schools in the Big South makes sense. For a school like Howard with an even better reputation, they are competing against schools like Hofstra, Northeastern, Furman, and to some extent GMU and GWU. Associating and aligning with a bunch of small hand to mouth, low standard public schools of the MEAC is long term institutional suicide. Those schools are increasingly attracting only Community College level students with no funding, and the schools are academically emaciated.

I agree that FAMU would not drop down if Howard left (they are a linchpin for the MEAC according to a sportswriter covering the league I conversed with), but several others might. FAMU could always join the A-SUN and put football in the Big South. Howard I am less sure where they would go, but the Big South would make sense if that league loses another member. I think they would rather be in the SoCon and eventually be in the CAA.

But schools like Coppin State, South Carolina State, Savannah State, and even Delaware State and UMES probably should not be in D-I in the first place. That women make up over 60% at every one of the MEAC schools should also dampen at the leats football. I swear half the schools in the MEAC and SWAC are in D-I strictly for the marching bands.

They are Division I for the cut of the basketball money, money games in hoops and more recently money games in football.

(11-15-2017 11:53 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Bowie State have been doing some upgrading for their facilities in recent years. Fort Valley State or Albany State moving up might halt Savannah State from moving down. It would leave the two Florida schools on an island between them and south Carolina State is a long haul.

I would love it if we could lure FAMU and BC to the SWAC, but that would disrupt a lot of HBCU rivalries on the east coast.

(11-16-2017 11:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 11:53 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Bowie State have been doing some upgrading for their facilities in recent years. Fort Valley State or Albany State moving up might halt Savannah State from moving down. It would leave the two Florida schools on an island between them and south Carolina State is a long haul.

I would love it if we could lure FAMU and BC to the SWAC, but that would disrupt a lot of HBCU rivalries on the east coast.

Maybe we will see FAMU, BCU, NC A&T, NCCU, and maybe South Carolina State joining SWAC.

It's official


Hampton University is Joining the Big South Conference, effective July 1, 2018 after a 22 year relationship with the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference

http://www.hamptonpirates.com/documents/...df?id=1309

Note: Men's Lacrosse is and Independent

Think that Hampton is positioning itself for the CAA, but needs to cut its teeth first on a non-HBCU conference. This is just the first step of a much larger vision. Howard may qualify for the CAA without taking that step. What Hampton's move states is that some reshaping of the CAA is coming. As stated in other threads, some CAA fb teams desire to go FBS as a group.

(11-16-2017 01:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Think that Hampton is positioning itself for the CAA, but needs to cut its teeth first on a non-HBCU conference. This is just the first step of a much larger vision. Howard may qualify for the CAA without taking that step. What Hampton's move states is that some reshaping of the CAA is coming. As stated in other threads, some CAA fb teams desire to go FBS as a group.

JMU is the only school that has shown both ability and desire to move to FBS and even that is muted by their leadership's desire to wait for the perfect situation. Delaware makes JMU look proactive. Stony Brook might down the line but I wouldn't call it imminent.

Hampton's long game might be the CAA — it certainly has shown the desire for it — but I doubt the Big South would extend an invitation to a school that has no intent to stay long.

Again, Hampton's move is a reflection of Hampton's ambitions and not the trigger for a Goldberg machine of conference moves. At most, you'll see some MEAC reshuffling (Howard to Big South? Delaware State to NEC? Virginia State up from the CIAA? Struggling schools following Savannah State's lead and dropping to the MEAC or SIAC?)

(11-16-2017 01:40 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 01:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Think that Hampton is positioning itself for the CAA, but needs to cut its teeth first on a non-HBCU conference. This is just the first step of a much larger vision. Howard may qualify for the CAA without taking that step. What Hampton's move states is that some reshaping of the CAA is coming. As stated in other threads, some CAA fb teams desire to go FBS as a group.

JMU is the only school that has shown both ability and desire to move to FBS and even that is muted by their leadership's desire to wait for the perfect situation. Delaware makes JMU look proactive. Stony Brook might down the line but I wouldn't call it imminent.

Hampton's long game might be the CAA — it certainly has shown the desire for it — but I doubt the Big South would extend an invitation to a school that has no intent to stay long.

Again, Hampton's move is a reflection of Hampton's ambitions and not the trigger for a Goldberg machine of conference moves. At most, you'll see some MEAC reshuffling (Howard to Big South? Delaware State to NEC? Virginia State up from the CIAA? Struggling schools following Savannah State's lead and dropping to the MEAC or SIAC?)

There have been reports that Hampton tried to get in the CAA in the last expansion.

The Big South wants and needs to have a fb autobid for at least a few years. Hampton provides that. Most of the Big South want in the SoCon, so none of the schools are committed to the Big South long term.

(11-16-2017 01:44 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 01:40 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 01:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Think that Hampton is positioning itself for the CAA, but needs to cut its teeth first on a non-HBCU conference. This is just the first step of a much larger vision. Howard may qualify for the CAA without taking that step. What Hampton's move states is that some reshaping of the CAA is coming. As stated in other threads, some CAA fb teams desire to go FBS as a group.

JMU is the only school that has shown both ability and desire to move to FBS and even that is muted by their leadership's desire to wait for the perfect situation. Delaware makes JMU look proactive. Stony Brook might down the line but I wouldn't call it imminent.

Hampton's long game might be the CAA — it certainly has shown the desire for it — but I doubt the Big South would extend an invitation to a school that has no intent to stay long.

Again, Hampton's move is a reflection of Hampton's ambitions and not the trigger for a Goldberg machine of conference moves. At most, you'll see some MEAC reshuffling (Howard to Big South? Delaware State to NEC? Virginia State up from the CIAA? Struggling schools following Savannah State's lead and dropping to the MEAC or SIAC?)

There have been reports that Hampton tried to get in the CAA in the last expansion.

The Big South wants and needs to have a fb autobid for at least a few years. Hampton provides that. Most of the Big South want in the SoCon, so none of the schools are committed to the Big South long term.

I've already brought Hampton's CAA desires up. They've absolutely made no bones about it.

There's a big difference between an existing school showing a desire to move on and a potential invitee already making plans for the stop after that. Hampton joining the Big South might clear the path down the line for a CAA invitation, but it's going to be a long time. Hampton clearly thinks that the Big South is a more athletically appropriate fit for them than the MEAC, and they can maintain the HBCU relationships they treasure most (Howard, Norfolk State, NC A&T, NCCU) while letting the others float away.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and not a new FBS conference.

(11-16-2017 02:08 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 01:44 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 01:40 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 01:28 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Think that Hampton is positioning itself for the CAA, but needs to cut its teeth first on a non-HBCU conference. This is just the first step of a much larger vision. Howard may qualify for the CAA without taking that step. What Hampton's move states is that some reshaping of the CAA is coming. As stated in other threads, some CAA fb teams desire to go FBS as a group.

JMU is the only school that has shown both ability and desire to move to FBS and even that is muted by their leadership's desire to wait for the perfect situation. Delaware makes JMU look proactive. Stony Brook might down the line but I wouldn't call it imminent.

Hampton's long game might be the CAA — it certainly has shown the desire for it — but I doubt the Big South would extend an invitation to a school that has no intent to stay long.

Again, Hampton's move is a reflection of Hampton's ambitions and not the trigger for a Goldberg machine of conference moves. At most, you'll see some MEAC reshuffling (Howard to Big South? Delaware State to NEC? Virginia State up from the CIAA? Struggling schools following Savannah State's lead and dropping to the MEAC or SIAC?)

There have been reports that Hampton tried to get in the CAA in the last expansion.

The Big South wants and needs to have a fb autobid for at least a few years. Hampton provides that. Most of the Big South want in the SoCon, so none of the schools are committed to the Big South long term.

I've already brought Hampton's CAA desires up. They've absolutely made no bones about it.

There's a big difference between an existing school showing a desire to move on and a potential invitee already making plans for the stop after that. Hampton joining the Big South might clear the path down the line for a CAA invitation, but it's going to be a long time. Hampton clearly thinks that the Big South is a more athletically appropriate fit for them than the MEAC, and they can maintain the HBCU relationships they treasure most (Howard, Norfolk State, NC A&T, NCCU) while letting the others float away.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and not a new FBS conference.

So your saying that the new FBS conference will have a tie-in with the Cigar Bowl in Havana?

Being in the CAA, the schools in the league are in various tiers.

Tier 1: Schools that would move up at any offer: JMU, Delaware. These schools have a lot of ambition outside of the east coast, and JMU is building a new basketball arena and expanding their football stadium. JMU will likely be a Sun Belt or C-USA team within 5 years or so.

Tier 2: Schools that likely would stand pat, waiting for best offer: CofC, UNCW, Elon, Northeastern. These schools all recruit many of the same people, and all have good facilities. Elon is building a new basketball arena, and CofC has a 5K seat arena and a good market. The first 3 want to be in the same league together, and would love to be in the A-10 if other schools moved up. NU would likely stay CAA, but being in Boston could give them more interest from other leagues.

Tier 3: Schools that will probably stay CAA no matter what: Towson, Hofstra, W&M, Drexel. W&M is a CAA lifer, and there have been rumors in the past they would go to the Patriot, but those are probably gone now. Towson, Hofstra, and Drexel all moved up from the America East, and are good fits in the league.

So who would the CAA add if JMU and Delaware leave? Somebody like a UNF? Hampton would give them the Hampton Roads market again, and they have a 6,000 seat arena. They have gotten as much as 8,000 for rivalry games with Norfolk State. Liberty, Longwood, and Radford in the Big South gives Hampton more games against state schools.

UNCG would be a logical add for the CAA, giving them the Greensboro market (Elon is in between Greensboro and Raleigh, and doesn’t really give them either market).

(11-16-2017 11:37 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

Delaware State could fit in here nicely.

Coppin State, Bowie State and Maryland-Eastern Shore could also fit in the NEC as well. Bowie State seems to be not hurting with money lately.

Now would be a good time for Bethune Cookman and Florida A&M to join the A-Sun, save some money on travel, and play Big South football with Hampton.