(06-06-2019 05:18 PM)JMU08 Wrote:  Urbach confirmed gone

No one saw that coming.

http://www.dnronline.com/sports/urbach-t...0b062.html

Can anyone help with a list of scholarship players that have left JMU over last three years?

2018/2019
Jonathan Hicklin
Greg Jones
Matthew Urbach

Other Years
Gerron Scissom
Vince Holmes
Terrance Johnson

I really hope this recruiting class that has received a lot of praise equates to wins.

I don't think the coachings will change too much, but hopefully the talent has enough to make a difference.

1) Hope I'm wrong and we contend next year.

2) If not I hope we tank

3) The one thing I don't want is be an average CAA team. That will kill our short term future.

There hasn’t really been gray shirting. In this case Urbach had put his name in the portal. You are going to have turnover at the bottom of the roster and Jmu under Rowe has had less than most programs. I’ve said before- retaining the core players/starters is what matters most and can really set a program back. Jmu under Rowe has avoided that. The biggest indictment player retention wise would likely be Scissum because he was probably expected to be a core guy and Jmu had him redshirt only to have his transfer early his first year on the court.

Btw therein lies the risk with transfers. The red shirt year and the potential that even if they contribute on the court that they leave you holding the bag and transfer again - like the kid at Drexel going to St Louis - that’s a bad Roi. To Rowe’s credit he retained Mosely. It’s funny I was emailing the staff a couple of off seasons ago about a transfer- Eric Hamilton from Wichita State. He winds up transferring to UNCG and coach Wes Miller. So so red shirt junior season for a team on the NCAA bubble. Just grad transferred out of UNCG and away from coaching wonder kid Wes Miller to Pitt and Jeff Capel. This is what you deal with in mid major hoops and why taking transfers is a dangerous get rich quick proposition.

NCAA basketball has become a joke with all the transferring around. These kids are going from high/prep school to another high/prep school then off to NCAA/JUCO a transfer to a another one or two and it’s gets difficult building around a kid thinking you’ll have him 4 years. If you are lucky enough to develop a good player for 3 years you run that risk he skips off to one of the top programs so they can finish up their final year of eligibility at a school that never gave them the time of day.

(06-08-2019 07:41 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  NCAA basketball has become a joke with all the transferring around. These kids are going from high/prep school to another high/prep school then off to NCAA/JUCO a transfer to a another one or two and it’s gets difficult building around a kid thinking you’ll have him 4 years. If you are lucky enough to develop a good player for 3 years you run that risk he skips off to one of the top programs so they can finish up their final year of eligibility at a school that never gave them the time of day.

Yep. Some of the best “recruiting” by Lou Rowe has been behind the scenes keeping his star players at JMU.

(06-07-2019 08:06 AM)Dukester Wrote:  I really hope this recruiting class that has received a lot of praise equates to wins.

I don't think the coachings will change too much, but hopefully the talent has enough to make a difference.

1) Hope I'm wrong and we contend next year.

2) If not I hope we tank

3) The one thing I don't want is be an average CAA team. That will kill our short term future.

My only hope, and I really mean this, is that at some point I actually have a reason to give a schit again.

Right now I just chime in cause I come across a thread like this or I’m bored.

Watch games for 2 hrs?

Meh, why bother?

(06-09-2019 01:06 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  My only hope, and I really mean this, is that at some point I actually have a reason to give a schit again.

Right now I just chime in cause I come across a thread like this or I’m bored.

Watch games for 2 hrs?

Meh, why bother?

I could be wrong, but I think you care a lot more than you put on. If you didn't care, you wouldn't even pull up this thread and further you wouldn't take the time to comment on it. It's OK to be frustrated. I'd think any Dukes fan is nuts if they weren't.

Having said all that, there's a lot to be optimistic about this upcoming season. We have a lot of talent returning, including 4 starters, and even if it follows the same poor results we've unfortunately experienced in Rowe's first 3 years as head coach, we are one step closer to getting a new CEO for JMU MBB.

I do appreciate your honesty, btw. And, your continued interest in JMU MBB...whether you want to admit it or not. (j/k)

(06-09-2019 02:52 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 01:06 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  My only hope, and I really mean this, is that at some point I actually have a reason to give a schit again.

Right now I just chime in cause I come across a thread like this or I’m bored.

Watch games for 2 hrs?

Meh, why bother?

I could be wrong, but I think you care a lot more than you put on. If you didn't care, you wouldn't even pull up this thread and further you wouldn't take the time to comment on it. It's OK to be frustrated. I'd think any Dukes fan is nuts if they weren't.

Having said all that, there's a lot to be optimistic about this upcoming season. We have a lot of talent returning, including 4 starters, and even if it follows the same poor results we've unfortunately experienced in Rowe's first 3 years as head coach, we are one step closer to getting a new CEO for JMU MBB.

I do appreciate your honesty, btw. And, your continued interest in JMU MBB...whether you want to admit it or not. (j/k)

WP - I think you are wrong.

Dunk and I are similiar. We used to be regulars on game threads that were 7-10 pages long back in the day. Also watching the Dukes on TV any time they were on. Now they play and we don't even think about it. We'll check in every week or so to find out what's going on. I watched a few games Lou's first year, but since then I don't believe I've watched a full game. I went to the road ODU game his first year, but that is the last game I've been to home or away. As things are now, we don't really care. If the program becomes what it should be our interest would certainly increase. To me, while a new arena is nice and exciting, it will have a limited attraction to me (perhaps a few games) if the program is not any better than it is now. The program needs to be at worst one of the top 3 in the CAA over an extended time, or they explode into a top 12-13 seed in the NCAA tournament one year would also jump start excitement. An exciting hire would also do it for me, and would bring instant creditabiliy. Even though Lefty's first year was pretty average, I bought in. An occasional top 3 team won't do it for what basketball can be a JMU.

(06-10-2019 08:16 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 02:52 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 01:06 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  My only hope, and I really mean this, is that at some point I actually have a reason to give a schit again.

Right now I just chime in cause I come across a thread like this or I’m bored.

Watch games for 2 hrs?

Meh, why bother?

I could be wrong, but I think you care a lot more than you put on. If you didn't care, you wouldn't even pull up this thread and further you wouldn't take the time to comment on it. It's OK to be frustrated. I'd think any Dukes fan is nuts if they weren't.

Having said all that, there's a lot to be optimistic about this upcoming season. We have a lot of talent returning, including 4 starters, and even if it follows the same poor results we've unfortunately experienced in Rowe's first 3 years as head coach, we are one step closer to getting a new CEO for JMU MBB.

I do appreciate your honesty, btw. And, your continued interest in JMU MBB...whether you want to admit it or not. (j/k)

WP - I think you are wrong.

Dunk and I are similiar. We used to be regulars on game threads that were 7-10 pages long back in the day. Also watching the Dukes on TV any time they were on. Now they play and we don't even think about it. We'll check in every week or so to find out what's going on. I watched a few games Lou's first year, but since then I don't believe I've watched a full game. I went to the road ODU game his first year, but that is the last game I've been to home or away. As things are now, we don't really care. If the program becomes what it should be our interest would certainly increase. To me, while a new arena is nice and exciting, it will have a limited attraction to me (perhaps a few games) if the program is not any better than it is now. The program needs to be at worst one of the top 3 in the CAA over an extended time, or they explode into a top 12-13 seed in the NCAA tournament one year would also jump start excitement. An exciting hire would also do it for me, and would bring instant creditabiliy. Even though Lefty's first year was pretty average, I bought in. An occasional top 3 team won't do it for what basketball can be a JMU.

Like I said, I could be wrong. Though, I don't believe for a second neither of you care. If you didn't, you wouldn't comment in the threads. I'd rather you continue to be angry/bitter than apathetic. Apathy is the worst. That's when folks truly don't care...and, when they don't comment in the threads about JMU MBB. Maybe you two just need to up your game when it comes to not caring anymore.

FWIW, here's the official release regarding Dobbs' signing... https://jmusports.com/news/2019/6/7/zyon...19-20.aspx

"Zyon is our type of guard and we're very excited for him to join our family this fall," Rowe said. "He's extremely tough and extremely competitive while giving us a lot of depth at the guard position. He can play on or off the ball for us, can make shots and has great size and competitiveness in the backcourt."

WELCOME TO THE JMU FAMILY, ZYON!!!

(06-10-2019 08:22 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(06-10-2019 08:16 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 02:52 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(06-09-2019 01:06 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  My only hope, and I really mean this, is that at some point I actually have a reason to give a schit again.

Right now I just chime in cause I come across a thread like this or I’m bored.

Watch games for 2 hrs?

Meh, why bother?

I could be wrong, but I think you care a lot more than you put on. If you didn't care, you wouldn't even pull up this thread and further you wouldn't take the time to comment on it. It's OK to be frustrated. I'd think any Dukes fan is nuts if they weren't.

Having said all that, there's a lot to be optimistic about this upcoming season. We have a lot of talent returning, including 4 starters, and even if it follows the same poor results we've unfortunately experienced in Rowe's first 3 years as head coach, we are one step closer to getting a new CEO for JMU MBB.

I do appreciate your honesty, btw. And, your continued interest in JMU MBB...whether you want to admit it or not. (j/k)

WP - I think you are wrong.

Dunk and I are similiar. We used to be regulars on game threads that were 7-10 pages long back in the day. Also watching the Dukes on TV any time they were on. Now they play and we don't even think about it. We'll check in every week or so to find out what's going on. I watched a few games Lou's first year, but since then I don't believe I've watched a full game. I went to the road ODU game his first year, but that is the last game I've been to home or away. As things are now, we don't really care. If the program becomes what it should be our interest would certainly increase. To me, while a new arena is nice and exciting, it will have a limited attraction to me (perhaps a few games) if the program is not any better than it is now. The program needs to be at worst one of the top 3 in the CAA over an extended time, or they explode into a top 12-13 seed in the NCAA tournament one year would also jump start excitement. An exciting hire would also do it for me, and would bring instant creditabiliy. Even though Lefty's first year was pretty average, I bought in. An occasional top 3 team won't do it for what basketball can be a JMU.

Like I said, I could be wrong. Though, I don't believe for a second neither of you care. If you didn't, you wouldn't comment in the threads. I'd rather you continue to be angry/bitter than apathetic. Apathy is the worst. That's when folks truly don't care...and, when they don't comment in the threads about JMU MBB. Maybe you two just need to up your game when it comes to not caring anymore.

Declining attendance/interest = Apathy.

Dunk - he's right we need to up our game. We can be the solution.

(06-10-2019 08:28 AM)Dukester Wrote:  Dunk - he's right we need to up our game. We can be the solution.

Wait, I can't be right when I'm wrong.

(sounds like a country song)

(06-07-2019 06:45 AM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  Can anyone help with a list of scholarship players that have left JMU over last three years?

2018/2019
Jonathan Hicklin
Greg Jones
Matthew Urbach

Other Years
Gerron Scissom
Vince Holmes
Terrance Johnson

come on dukeman, i think there is some appreciation for your contrarian views, but you lose credibility when you make issue of non - issues. Urbach leaving was more of lou's decision than Urbach's

(06-07-2019 08:06 AM)Dukester Wrote:  I really hope this recruiting class that has received a lot of praise equates to wins.

I don't think the coachings will change too much, but hopefully the talent has enough to make a difference.

1) Hope I'm wrong and we contend next year.

2) If not I hope we tank

3) The one thing I don't want is be an average CAA team. That will kill our short term future.

Tank? I am not sure i follow you. You hope Lou intentionally throws the season so we are in position to get a higher draft pick? Or you hope he throws the season so it will be easier to get himself fired? Sounds like you are afraid of progress that comes up short of an NCAA bid but shows enough to retain Lou. with what we would have coming back in 20, you would prefer we go the W&M route and do a complete re-boot?

Is it too early to put expectations out there for next year? I think the under / over is 10-8 in the caa and semis in the tourney. is that enough?

(06-07-2019 08:16 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  There hasn’t really been gray shirting. In this case Urbach had put his name in the portal. You are going to have turnover at the bottom of the roster and Jmu under Rowe has had less than most programs. I’ve said before- retaining the core players/starters is what matters most and can really set a program back. Jmu under Rowe has avoided that. The biggest indictment player retention wise would likely be Scissum because he was probably expected to be a core guy and Jmu had him redshirt only to have his transfer early his first year on the court.

Btw therein lies the risk with transfers. The red shirt year and the potential that even if they contribute on the court that they leave you holding the bag and transfer again - like the kid at Drexel going to St Louis - that’s a bad Roi. To Rowe’s credit he retained Mosely. It’s funny I was emailing the staff a couple of off seasons ago about a transfer- Eric Hamilton from Wichita State. He winds up transferring to UNCG and coach Wes Miller. So so red shirt junior season for a team on the NCAA bubble. Just grad transferred out of UNCG and away from coaching wonder kid Wes Miller to Pitt and Jeff Capel. This is what you deal with in mid major hoops and why taking transfers is a dangerous get rich quick proposition.

I don't consider it grey-shirting or anything that is out of bounds......when in this case the kid (Urbach) puts his name in the transfer portal......all bets are off at that point and nothing is guaranteed. The coach in this case, Rowe, would be remiss in his job if he did nothing after a kid makes his intentions known to transfer by throwing his name out there. I thought Rowe was simply being proactive and doing his job after Urbach entered the transfer portal. What is a head coach supposed to do at that point, do nothing and hope & pray your #8/#9 guy changes his mind and decides to come back. It is the players option, but be careful what you do/ask for you just might get it and when the music stops no longer have a spot at your old school.

(06-10-2019 09:17 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  

(06-07-2019 08:06 AM)Dukester Wrote:  I really hope this recruiting class that has received a lot of praise equates to wins.

I don't think the coachings will change too much, but hopefully the talent has enough to make a difference.

1) Hope I'm wrong and we contend next year.

2) If not I hope we tank

3) The one thing I don't want is be an average CAA team. That will kill our short term future.

Tank? I am not sure i follow you. You hope Lou intentionally throws the season so we are in position to get a higher draft pick? Or you hope he throws the season so it will be easier to get himself fired? Sounds like you are afraid of progress that comes up short of an NCAA bid but shows enough to retain Lou. with what we would have coming back in 20, you would prefer we go the W&M route and do a complete re-boot?

Is it too early to put expectations out there for next year? I think the under / over is 10-8 in the caa and semis in the tourney. is that enough?

Im trying to remain positive for this coming season. That said, is a CAA record that is the bare minimum above .500 enough of an expectation? I say no. After 4 years, I would expect more, especially in this watered down conference. If that’s the best we can hope for, either our recruits were vastly overrated or Rowe can’t coach. In either case, It’s not acceptable. I personally think the lineup will really jell this year and barring injuries expect 12-6 or better. A lot of these guys will be in their 3rd year of playing together. If they have talent, that continuity should begin to pay off.

(06-10-2019 03:52 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Im trying to remain positive for this coming season. That said, is a CAA record that is the bare minimum above .500 enough of an expectation? I say no. After 4 years, I would expect more, especially in this watered down conference. If that’s the best we can hope for, either our recruits were vastly overrated or Rowe can’t coach. In either case, It’s not acceptable. I personally think the lineup will really jell this year and barring injuries expect 12-6 or better. A lot of these guys will be in their 3rd year of playing together. If they have talent, that continuity should begin to pay off.

I tend to agree with you. There are some caveats of course. For example, if the team goes say 10-8, avoids the Keener Invitational, and wins the CAAT, then Rowe will of course return for his 5th year. Come to think of it, if we win the CAAT (and make a NCAAT appearance) regardless of our Season 1 (non-CAA) or Season 2 (CAA) records, he will get another season.

I too am hopeful, not expectant just hopeful mind you, that things will fall into place with 4 returning starters and the core group of guys in their 3rd years. And, I can't imagine Hofstra being better than they were last year, W&M might be a dumpster fire and Elon (who whipped us twice) is ushering in a new HC. If we have a successful season next year, I hope we do NOT give Rowe a contract extension. He should prove 1 successful season isn't a fluke. He should do it again in his 5th year in the new arena with a bunch of returning starting seniors. Some may think recruiting could be affected negatively without a contract extension, but he has 7 guys who will be sophs during that 5th/final year of his contract (unless there is attrition we don't yet know about between now and then).

Bottom line, it would be nice to have those kind of decision "issues". That is, do we extend or not, because at minimum that means this upcoming last season in the Dungeo....errrr, Convo...is a successful one that we can enjoy (for a change).

I just hope we have a definitive answer one way or another. Either we win the CAAT and make some noise and retain Rowe or we have an awful year and fire Rowe. Somewhere in the middle could be an absolute mess. We need to know for sure the direction of this program and remaining in the middle isn't going to work.

Really liking the group of players coming in and hope they can make an impact immediately.

A "step forward" is more likely next year than dominating the CAA. Doubt the freshman will be a "fab 5" situation and instantly gel. A more realistic expectation is that the returning players start to look more polished and work together well, while the freshmen provide a spark here or there, and show they are capable of becoming great.

I'd like to see us win some tourney games and perhaps reach the CAA final, anything beyond that would be gravy. Would be (happily) surprised to see us make NCAA or even NIT next year.

I know its not the answer anyone wants, but the 2020-2021 season is the one where this team should really be lighting things up.