I think you meant mi$interpretation. This has CYA all over it. I can understand the concept of saving face, but FSU is going all "alternative facts" on us now.

(12-22-2017 10:54 PM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  I think you meant mi$interpretation. This has CYA all over it. I can understand the concept of saving face, but FSU is going all "alternative facts" on us now.

Nothing I can say is going to change anyone's mind and that's ok, so I'm not going to waste time with it. I'm just looking forward to a fun Christmas and an interesting bowl matchup with Southern Miss: a team we used to play quite a bit and a team I have in my fictional modern day Metro Conference with FSU.

(12-22-2017 10:48 PM)3BNole Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 10:39 PM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  Considering that the original data for the reddit report came straight from Delaware State it sounds more like FSU got on the phone and bullied them into fudging the truth. Lame.

The original data from reddit was incomplete and a misinterpretation of the ncaa rules.

Oh reddit... And the I'm sure the Tallahassee Democrat did a bang up job investigating the Jamis Winston stuff.

FSU is bending the rules to make it to favor on their side. What they have said does not matched what the exact NCAA rules say. Delaware State is under the 90% mark.

(12-22-2017 10:48 PM)3BNole Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 10:39 PM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  Considering that the original data for the reddit report came straight from Delaware State it sounds more like FSU got on the phone and bullied them into fudging the truth. Lame.

The original data from reddit was incomplete and a misinterpretation of the ncaa rules.

How can the Reddit report be a 'misinterpretation' when the rule clearly says football aid, not all kinds of aid?

This language doesn't appear to allow for any kind of reasonable wiggle room, so looks like the NCAA is applying a bogus interpretation of its own adopted rule to allow FSU and whoever else to squeeze in.

(12-23-2017 05:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 10:48 PM)3BNole Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 10:39 PM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  Considering that the original data for the reddit report came straight from Delaware State it sounds more like FSU got on the phone and bullied them into fudging the truth. Lame.

The original data from reddit was incomplete and a misinterpretation of the ncaa rules.

How can the Reddit report be a 'misinterpretation' when the rule clearly says football aid, not all kinds of aid?

This language doesn't appear to allow for any kind of reasonable wiggle room, so looks like the NCAA is applying a bogus interpretation of its own adopted rule to allow FSU and whoever else to squeeze in.

The rule does not say "football aid", it says "grant in aid". Where the reddit article was wrong was it only counted athletic scholarships. It did not count academic or other types of scholarships that players may be on. Every university does this. It's especiallly common in sports like baseball where there aren't enough athletic scholarships to cover the majority of the team. In Delaware State's case, they likely have a few extra players on other types of scholarships which are federally or academically sponsored and have a lower impact on the athletic budget. In any case, the NCAA bylaws clearly allow for this

(12-23-2017 08:44 AM)3BNole Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 05:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 10:48 PM)3BNole Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 10:39 PM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  Considering that the original data for the reddit report came straight from Delaware State it sounds more like FSU got on the phone and bullied them into fudging the truth. Lame.

The original data from reddit was incomplete and a misinterpretation of the ncaa rules.

How can the Reddit report be a 'misinterpretation' when the rule clearly says football aid, not all kinds of aid?

This language doesn't appear to allow for any kind of reasonable wiggle room, so looks like the NCAA is applying a bogus interpretation of its own adopted rule to allow FSU and whoever else to squeeze in.

The rule does not say "football aid", it says "grant in aid". Where the reddit article was wrong was it only counted athletic scholarships. It did not count academic or other types of scholarships that players may be on. Every university does this. It's especiallly common in sports like baseball where there aren't enough athletic scholarships to cover the majority of the team. In Delaware State's case, they likely have a few extra players on other types of scholarships which are federally or academically sponsored and have a lower impact on the athletic budget. In any case, the NCAA bylaws clearly allow for this

Incorrect. I've linked the rules. This has nothing to do with baseball and other sports, these rules specifically apply to football, and in the two relevant rules, 18.7.2.1.1 and 18.7.2.1.1.1, the kind of grant-in aid is clearly specified as "football" grant-in aid:

https://i.imgur.com/eZiIWVM.png

(12-23-2017 09:02 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 08:44 AM)3BNole Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 05:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 10:48 PM)3BNole Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 10:39 PM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  Considering that the original data for the reddit report came straight from Delaware State it sounds more like FSU got on the phone and bullied them into fudging the truth. Lame.

The original data from reddit was incomplete and a misinterpretation of the ncaa rules.

How can the Reddit report be a 'misinterpretation' when the rule clearly says football aid, not all kinds of aid?

This language doesn't appear to allow for any kind of reasonable wiggle room, so looks like the NCAA is applying a bogus interpretation of its own adopted rule to allow FSU and whoever else to squeeze in.

The rule does not say "football aid", it says "grant in aid". Where the reddit article was wrong was it only counted athletic scholarships. It did not count academic or other types of scholarships that players may be on. Every university does this. It's especiallly common in sports like baseball where there aren't enough athletic scholarships to cover the majority of the team. In Delaware State's case, they likely have a few extra players on other types of scholarships which are federally or academically sponsored and have a lower impact on the athletic budget. In any case, the NCAA bylaws clearly allow for this

Incorrect. I've linked the rules. This has nothing to do with baseball and other sports, these rules specifically apply to football, and in the two relevant rules, 18.7.2.1.1 and 18.7.2.1.1.1, the kind of grant-in aid is clearly specified as "football" grant-in aid:

https://i.imgur.com/eZiIWVM.png

https://financialaid.arizona.edu/general...d-excerpts

Quote:15.02.4 Financial Aid. “Financial aid” is funds provided to student-athletes from various sources to pay or assist in paying their cost of education at the institution. As used in NCAA legislation, “financial aid” includes all institutional financial aid and other permissible financial aid as set forth below. (See Bylaws 15.01.6.1, 16.2, 16.3 and 16.4.) (Revised: 5/26/09)

15.02.4.2 Institutional Financial Aid. The following sources of financial aid are considered to be institutional financial aid: (Revised: 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94, 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 10/31/02 effective 8/1/03, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) All funds administered by the institution, which include but are not limited to the following:
(1) Scholarships;
(2) Grants;
(3) Tuition waivers;
(4) Employee dependent tuition benefits, unless the parent or the legal guardian of a student-athlete has been employed as a full-time faculty/staff member for a minimum of five years; and (5) Loans.
(b) Aid from government or private sources for which the institution is responsible for selecting the recipient or determining the amount of aid, or providing matching or supplementary funds for a previously determined recipient.

Thanks for posting the specific rule kaplony, that is exactly what I was referring to. Every institution does this with all of their sports (including football), so really I don't see what the confusion is. The other rule linked in the reddit article even specifically mentions other types of financial aid including academic and federal scholarships as applying. I have provided the link below, straight from the reddit article.

https://m.imgur.com/EQGLSVT

Additionally, if anyone has any further doubts at all, please see the post by hokiemark in the ACC message board topic on this here: http://csnbbs.com/thread-837987.html

The NCAA explained earlier this year that Syracuse's game against NEC Wagner counted towards eligibility even though they have a football scholarship limit capped at 40 because other types of financial aid counted towards the requirement. This is a set precedent that is used every year and the people who continue to suggest otherwise simply have other agendas not based in the reality of the regulated sport.

I also imagine that had the rule not been in place the NCAA would have granted FSU a waiver to help Delaware State avoid liability. Every time a FBS team schedules a FCS team they are contractually required to be a counter and had DSU failed to live up to their end of the bargain I would imagine FSU would have been able to successfully recover both the game guarantee along with any bowl monies they would have lost out on due to DSU failing to fulfill it's contracted responsibility. That would have been devastating for DSU's athletics budget.

I think some of you guys that is sticking up for Florida State on this issue is wrong. It is the same rules as it was in 2003 when the NCAA denied South Florida a waiver when they went 7-4, and that both Nicholls State and Charleston Southern both were under the 90% scholarships. You can't have it both ways. They did not include the extra stuff back then what you are claiming that Delaware State have. It is the same issues. Florida state is ineligible.

(12-23-2017 10:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I think some of you guys that is sticking up for Florida State on this issue is wrong. It is the same rules as it was in 2003 when the NCAA denied South Florida a waiver when they went 7-4, and that both Nicholls State and Charleston Southern both were under the 90% scholarships. You can't have it both ways. They did not include the extra stuff back then what you are claiming that Delaware State have. It is the same issues. Florida state is ineligible.

Except for the fact that at the time Charleston Southern was scheduled it was known that they did not meet the scholarship limits and likely wouldn't have even with the NCAA's current interpretation of the rule.

Whatever FSU has to do to get a check, I guess.

Of course, if you want to open this can of worms, by all means. I guess the Patriot went through this nonsense for nothing, and they didn't need to anything different than Ivy and Pioneer. And Ivy and Pioneer schools should be working the phones like stupid because if you can count all of the other crap as applicable, **** it, let's roll.

No wonder Chicago State is pushing this football nonsense around. They don't have to really spend a dime to recruit to scholarships, just make them take out loans. That's good enough to satisfy the rule's current interpretation I guess...

Or, we can stop fooling ourselves and believe FSU and DSU are totally full of ****. Occam's razor.