(12-21-2017 08:45 PM)3BNole Wrote:  I don't think it's an issue at all. It's not FSU's fault that Delaware State made an error. If there was any sort of issue, there would be a strong case for litigation against Delaware State as that requirement was contractural. It's not FSU's problem and this is an obvious case in which a waver makes sense.

It *should* be FSU's problem, as the NCAA rule exists for a reason. It's a gamble you take when you schedule an FCS team.

The rule doesn't say "the FCS team must meet the scholarship requirement for the FBS team to be bowl eligible - unless the FBS team gosh darn really thought they met it even if they didn't".

(12-22-2017 06:35 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 08:45 PM)3BNole Wrote:  I don't think it's an issue at all. It's not FSU's fault that Delaware State made an error. If there was any sort of issue, there would be a strong case for litigation against Delaware State as that requirement was contractural. It's not FSU's problem and this is an obvious case in which a waver makes sense.

It *should* be FSU's problem, as the NCAA rule exists for a reason. It's a gamble you take when you schedule an FCS team.

The rule doesn't say "the FCS team must meet the scholarship requirement for the FBS team to be bowl eligible - unless the FBS team gosh darn really thought they met it even if they didn't".

McMurphy said it is the fault of FSU, ACC and NCAA for not doing their part.

Stop looking for the cheapest way possible to get a win, and you don't have this problem.

Why is Florida State scheduling Delaware State to begin with?

I mean, if scheduling these games are a way to keep football "profitable" at FBS schools, red flag?

I like how Clemson and SC keep their FCS games instate. If you are going to play them, play a local school

(12-22-2017 08:54 AM)solohawks Wrote:  I like how Clemson and SC keep their FCS games instate. If you are going to play them, play a local school

Can we say ouch on your comment? South Carolina State is in the same shape as Delaware State, and they may not be at the 90% either.

I am pretty certain that this isn't the first instance, just the first that got any traction when it was noticed.

Really nothing the NCAA can do other than order FSU to vacate the game if they win at this point.

(12-21-2017 04:32 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 04:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  I wouldn't be surprised if other 6-6 schools have had this happen that we never heard about. I doubt if many FBS schools would have ever thought to inquire of their FCS opponent's scholarship status when they schedule the game.

100% false. That is the first question asked, and is usually in the contract - that the FCS team is a counter.

Southern Utah used to have that problem when they were in the limited schollie Great West - AD's from FBS schools would call, ask if SUU was a counter, get the no answer and hang up.

100%, and yet, here we are. For the record, Delaware State also played West Virginia. They are off the hook, though, because they had 7 wins, not 6. But they didn't know that would be the case when they scheduled the game.

I have heard, and have not tried to corroborate, that many if not most MEAC schools often fail to meet the 57.6 scholarship threshold. FBS schools played 12 games against MEAC opponents this year. So Delaware State may not be the only non-counter. If Reddit hadn't pursued this, we probably would never have known there was an issue.

As far as I know, the only other 6-6 team to schedule a MEAC team was Duke. Has anybody checked to see if they qualify as a counter?

(12-21-2017 04:32 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 04:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  I wouldn't be surprised if other 6-6 schools have had this happen that we never heard about. I doubt if many FBS schools would have ever thought to inquire of their FCS opponent's scholarship status when they schedule the game.

100% false. That is the first question asked, and is usually in the contract - that the FCS team is a counter.

Southern Utah used to have that problem when they were in the limited schollie Great West - AD's from FBS schools would call, ask if SUU was a counter, get the no answer and hang up.

Southern Miss cancelled a game against MS Valley State a few years ago because they didn't offer enough scholarships to be counted.

(12-21-2017 05:14 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  NCAA will just give them a waiver. Move along

Nah....I don't want to move along

(12-21-2017 10:48 PM)3BNole Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 10:19 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 08:45 PM)3BNole Wrote:  I don't think it's an issue at all. It's not FSU's fault that Delaware State made an error. If there was any sort of issue, there would be a strong case for litigation against Delaware State as that requirement was contractural. It's not FSU's problem and this is an obvious case in which a waver makes sense.

How is it Deleware State's fault at all? FSU scheduled them even though the past 2 years they hadn't met the scholarship threshold. There was no reason to assume one way or another whether this year would be different. They took a gamble, not thinking that they would need this game for anything more than a paycheck.

Doesn't matter. Waiver of some sort will be granted.

It's easy, the game was scheduled under the pretense that Delaware State met the required number of scholarships. Even the reddit articles states that. The reddit article also discusses how hard it was to get the data from the athletic department because of their poor organization. FSU paid them a couple million dollars with the understanding that they had the correct number of scholarship players and assurance from Delaware State that that was the case. I'm not mad at Delaware State, mistakes happen, but it is a frustrating hiccup. It's like if a team was supposed to play another team but when gametime came the team didn't show up because they wanted to save some money and take their team bus but it broke down on the way. Just crazy.

As an ironic note, Bufallo (6-6) is scheduled to open with Delaware State next year and apparently they're now scrambling to look for a replacement. So there's evidence that they weren't informed either.

On a side note, I'm not defending the scheduling. I don't mind an FCS game each year (I think there's a lot of mutual benefit), but I hate when we end up playing a bad fcs team. It's ridiculous. I prefer it when we play teams like Jacksonville State, Chattanooga, Wofford, or The Citadel; who actually have a pulse. The two worst games I've ever been to were savannah state (game was ended in the 3rd quarter) and this one (running clock). That's totally on us.

Nope, the game was scheduled under the pretense that FSU would finish with more than the measly 6 wins they finished with and that this wouldn't matter.

(12-22-2017 08:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 08:54 AM)solohawks Wrote:  I like how Clemson and SC keep their FCS games instate. If you are going to play them, play a local school

Can we say ouch on your comment? South Carolina State is in the same shape as Delaware State, and they may not be at the 90% either.

What in the blue blazes are you talking about?

Look at their schedules, when they play FCS they play South Carolina FCS

(12-22-2017 07:24 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 08:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 08:54 AM)solohawks Wrote:  I like how Clemson and SC keep their FCS games instate. If you are going to play them, play a local school

Can we say ouch on your comment? South Carolina State is in the same shape as Delaware State, and they may not be at the 90% either.

What in the blue blazes are you talking about?

Look at their schedules, when they play FCS they play South Carolina FCS

If you are talking about South Carolina and Clemson scheduling schools like South Carolina State and Charleston Southern? Those two schools are in the same boat as Delaware State. Even Presbyterian having financial issues for football.

(12-22-2017 09:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 04:32 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(12-21-2017 04:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  I wouldn't be surprised if other 6-6 schools have had this happen that we never heard about. I doubt if many FBS schools would have ever thought to inquire of their FCS opponent's scholarship status when they schedule the game.

100% false. That is the first question asked, and is usually in the contract - that the FCS team is a counter.

Southern Utah used to have that problem when they were in the limited schollie Great West - AD's from FBS schools would call, ask if SUU was a counter, get the no answer and hang up.

100%, and yet, here we are. For the record, Delaware State also played West Virginia. They are off the hook, though, because they had 7 wins, not 6. But they didn't know that would be the case when they scheduled the game.

I have heard, and have not tried to corroborate, that many if not most MEAC schools often fail to meet the 57.6 scholarship threshold. FBS schools played 12 games against MEAC opponents this year. So Delaware State may not be the only non-counter. If Reddit hadn't pursued this, we probably would never have known there was an issue.

As far as I know, the only other 6-6 team to schedule a MEAC team was Duke. Has anybody checked to see if they qualify as a counter?

Duke played North Carolina Central. They are not in financial troubles like Delaware State on their sports. NC Central covered the 90% marked.

Delaware State is in the lower half of attendance while NC central is in the upper half.

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/11/30/Sports...ut_f.shtml

In 2003, USF went 7-4, been denied a bowl bid. They played 2 FCS schools that year, and wanted one of the FCS schools to be counted as a 6th win. Turns out that both Nicholls State and Charleston Southern were not at the 90% scholarship mark either that year. This is the case of example that USF was hit the Arizona denial when they played 2 FCS teams and the FSU this year. In 2010, the rules changed to allow USF a bowl bid for being 7 wins, but they would still be the FSU ineligible for the scholarship issues of both schools.

(12-22-2017 07:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 07:24 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 08:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 08:54 AM)solohawks Wrote:  I like how Clemson and SC keep their FCS games instate. If you are going to play them, play a local school

Can we say ouch on your comment? South Carolina State is in the same shape as Delaware State, and they may not be at the 90% either.

What in the blue blazes are you talking about?

Look at their schedules, when they play FCS they play South Carolina FCS

If you are talking about South Carolina and Clemson scheduling schools like South Carolina State and Charleston Southern? Those two schools are in the same boat as Delaware State. Even Presbyterian having financial issues for football.

Furman, Wofford, The Citadel ring a bell

(12-22-2017 07:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 07:24 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 08:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 08:54 AM)solohawks Wrote:  I like how Clemson and SC keep their FCS games instate. If you are going to play them, play a local school

Can we say ouch on your comment? South Carolina State is in the same shape as Delaware State, and they may not be at the 90% either.

What in the blue blazes are you talking about?

Look at their schedules, when they play FCS they play South Carolina FCS

If you are talking about South Carolina and Clemson scheduling schools like South Carolina State and Charleston Southern? Those two schools are in the same boat as Delaware State. Even Presbyterian having financial issues for football.

Neither Clemson nor South Carolina played SC State or Charleston Southern this year. SC State didn't play a FBS team because they are currently under the limit. Charleston Southern played two.

As for Presbyterian, the reason they are phasing in the Pioneer league is to maintain the payday games they already have on the schedule. They will be a counter when they play those games.

I would suggest you do some research in the future before you make false claims.

FSU is bowl eligible without any sort of waiver. Confirmed today. Reddit was wrong. http://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/...978572001/

Considering that the original data for the reddit report came straight from Delaware State it sounds more like FSU got on the phone and bullied them into fudging the truth. Lame.

(12-22-2017 10:39 PM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  Considering that the original data for the reddit report came straight from Delaware State it sounds more like FSU got on the phone and bullied them into fudging the truth. Lame.

The original data from reddit was incomplete and a misinterpretation of the ncaa rules.

(12-22-2017 10:34 PM)3BNole Wrote:  FSU is bowl eligible without any sort of waiver. Confirmed today. Reddit was wrong. http://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/...978572001/

Yeah...that makes this even more fishy

I mean...if you turn the numbers to the left a little bit, see how that 6 looks like a 9?

NCAA "rules" at its finest.