The stock market is speculation, not investment. Investment means building factories and production facilities and funding startups. People speculate in the stock market—or invest overseas—when the ROI on domestic investment is too low.

(12-25-2017 01:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The stock market is speculation, not investment. Investment means building factories and production facilities and funding startups. People speculate in the stock market—or invest overseas—when the ROI on domestic investment is too low.

IMO, long term the stock market is investment, short term it is speculation. If one is in short term might as well go to Vegas instead.

(12-26-2017 09:15 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(12-25-2017 01:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The stock market is speculation, not investment. Investment means building factories and production facilities and funding startups. People speculate in the stock market—or invest overseas—when the ROI on domestic investment is too low.

IMO, long term the stock market is investment, short term it is speculation. If one is in short term might as well go to Vegas instead.

If I put money into Apple or Microsoft when they were just starting up, that is investment. If I buy their shares in an IPO, that is investment. The money goes from me to Apple or Microsoft. If I buy shares in either on the market today, the money goes to some other speculator, and when I sell I get money from some other speculator.

I define it as investment when the money goes to the entity itself, and speculation when the money goes to some other speculator.

If I buy a race horse, that's investment. If I bet on the Kentucky Derby, that's speculation.

(12-25-2017 12:35 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-25-2017 12:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-25-2017 11:26 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(12-25-2017 11:18 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-25-2017 08:11 AM)VA49er Wrote:  I've freaking read the highlights and I can even tell it's not ONLY for big business. Of course, I choose to read for myself and not just listen to MSM. Yes, a big part of it is corporate related, and that's a good thing. You won't hear the MSM mention that though. It's to be expected as it doesn't flow with the talking points directed toward its minions.

Borrowing money to pay for a tax cut isn't good policy.
Attacking the media is simply gaslighting.

Interesting how NOW leftest complain about borrowing money. Money repatriated from overseas will actually be a good thing. Corps using previous money set aside for taxes using that money for employee raises and investing in communities are good things. No idea why the left disagrees.
Attacking the POTUS for simply because the other side lost is simply asinine. People need to learn to think for themselves. I didn't vote for Trump; however, due to the left's nonsense since the election, I find myself actually defending him. Is this tax plan perfect, no. However, it's a good start. The left would still hate it if it increased the corp tax rate and gave more free money to people simply because Trump. It's
mental.

First you need to explain your use of the term, "leftist." I don't think I would fall into that category unless you use it to define anyone that wouldn't be considered a conservative, though these terms are outdated and often times highly inaccurate.
Deficit spending is sometimes appropriate. When we are in a period of high employment, a record setting stock market, and record corporate profits we should be trying to pay down / shore up, not borrow.
Rather than the usual arguing back and forth I'd like to suggest what I think would be a much better approach.
I do think the statutory corporate tax rate should be lowered. But it needs to be revenue neutral. Remember the effective tax rate, (what they actually pay after deductions, loopholes etc.) averages about 18.5%.
I think the individual tax cuts should skew more towards the working and middle class. Those making $25k or less are only getting a 0.4% (about $60) cut in the current bill. Cut them by a higher %, say 4, and every dollar they save on their taxes will be pumped back in to the economy. Those making between $50k and $150k are only getting a 1.6-1.9% (between $900-$1,800) cut. Raise their % to 4%. These changes will result in more spending and stimulate the economy much more that cuts to the higher end. Those making between $300k and $730k are currently getting a 4.1% cut. Reduce their percentage down to 2% and they still save about 8k! Do the save thing with the above $730k who are currently getting a 3.4% cut ($51k savings). In other words reverse the cut % so that those that are more likely to pump the savings back into the economy get more. I'm not saying to hell with the wealthy. They should get a cut too, but they are much more likely to not put the money saved back into circulation.

This whole meme about the “wealthy” not putting their money back into circulation needs to get lost. They don’t bury it in tomato cans. The question is how they put it into circulation—consumption or investment. What we need now is more investment.

The only way to have a competitive income tax structure that can attract investment, while providing a reasonable safety net and maintaining national security is to have a consumption tax and not intervene in every internal affair of every other country.

I fully agree. The next step is to end this archaic way of raising income. 160 nations have already figured this out and are beating us in regard to the investment issue you mention. Im hoping at least the removal of taxing income made abroad will help..but..some level of consumption paradigm is needed. We also need to get our fiscal house in order and cut prudently. The military is obviously going to be the first to get cut. No one is touching SS and Medicare. It is political suicide now to do so. For sure we can prudently cut the military budget and still maintain an effective defense. First off?....It is time that some of these countries we protect either pony up or we leave and make them defend themselves. No wonder some of these countries can provide "free" health care. They don't have military budgets to speak of.

(12-24-2017 11:41 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 11:32 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  What you guys that think this tax bill is so great don't seem to recognize is that the bill is a huge corporate tax cut. It is a gift to the donor class. It includes some tax breaks to the middle class but they are small potatoes in comparison to what the wealthy and corporations get. Of course we are all glad to save some money on our tax bill for a few years but it is basically a cheap bribe to keep the masses occupied while they walk out of the bank dragging bags of money. Squirrel!!!!!

Im going to predict that at some point next year due to the lowering of corporate overhead that competition will exert pressure on prices and drive them lower in concert. This of course will give the poor and middle class the most benefit.

I’m going to bet we don’t see a noticeable reduction in prices anytime in the next year. I’m going to also bet we don’t see a noticeable increase in wages in the next year. Not saying those things won’t happen because of this, just wont happen in the short term.