(01-03-2018 09:15 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 08:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 08:30 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  I believe in the " in order to be the man you have to beat the man" rule. Well guess what, UCF beat the team that beat the teams in the championship game and went undefeated. Case close fellas ...

Well, first of all "beating the team that beat the teams" doesn't mean anything. As those teams weren't "the man" in the sense of beating the champion. Heck, Clemson was the champion and Syracuse beat them, but that didn't make Syracuse the champion.

Second, UCF isn't getting any share of any championship. So you can close your case all you want, but it will just be your opinion, i.e., meaningless.

1) Syracuse wasn't undefeated
2) Clemson didn't make the CCG therefore they were not the man
Your apple to oranges response indicates that you are being either stupid or desperate in your AAC hatred. Anyway I'll take my own advice to UCF fans and tell you to EFF OFF

By "beat the man who beat the man" logic, you don't have to be undefeated, you just have to beat the man. Buster Douglass wasn't undefeated when he beat Mike Tyson.

You are full of AAC passion and vim and vigor right now, and it is clouding your judgment. There's no logical way to argue that because UCF beat 3-loss, #7 Auburn that makes them National Champions.

(01-03-2018 11:12 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 08:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 08:30 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  I believe in the " in order to be the man you have to beat the man" rule. Well guess what, UCF beat the team that beat the teams in the championship game and went undefeated. Case close fellas ...

Well, first of all "beating the team that beat the teams" doesn't mean anything. As those teams weren't "the man" in the sense of beating the champion. Heck, Clemson was the champion and Syracuse beat them, but that didn't make Syracuse the champion.

Second, UCF isn't getting any share of any championship. So you can close your case all you want, but it will just be your opinion, i.e., meaningless.

But the CFP is just the opinion of a bought and paid for rigged committee. When you leave out the nations only undefeated team and they then prove themselves to be legitimate (as the dismissed top G5 has now in 4 of the last 5 NYD bowl games) you undermine the long term legeitimacy of the process. Im fine with a split champion. The selection committee has no one to blame but themselves--and honestly---the people who appointed the committee are really at fault. C'mon. All P5 representatives and no G5 representatives? Really? They thought that was reasonable, equitable, ethical, and fair?

Split National Championship. When you can show me where UCF lost a game I will conceded they have no leg to stand on. Until then--they have the most powerful claim of anyone. They never lost..and we have a common data point. You have a bought and paid for committee that was so biased in its membership that they were afraid to even appoint someone that might consider another point of view.

There isn't going to be a "split champion", even if you think in the age of the CFP that a split champion is even possible (I don't, because the AP no longer means anything, but even if). Remember, it wasn't just the biased CFP that had UCF way out of the playoffs, everyone else did too - AP, Coaches, Sagarin, Massey Comp, BCS simulation. Whether it was human voters, computers, or some combo of them, they basically all had UCF way out of the playoffs.

Just think about it:

In the last AP poll, Alabama is ranked #4, UCF is ranked #10. UCF beats ... 3-loss #7 Auburn in the final minutes, Alabama crushes #1, one-loss, defending champ Clemson like a bug, and you think on that basis UCF moves ahead of them?

And that's even before Alabama beats (if they can beat) Georgia!

It is amazing watching UCF fans assign Magical Meaning to a skin of teeth win over a 3-loss Auburn team. As if that somehow trumps all other wins by everyone else.

Incredible, really.

(01-03-2018 11:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 09:15 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 08:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 08:30 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  I believe in the " in order to be the man you have to beat the man" rule. Well guess what, UCF beat the team that beat the teams in the championship game and went undefeated. Case close fellas ...

Well, first of all "beating the team that beat the teams" doesn't mean anything. As those teams weren't "the man" in the sense of beating the champion. Heck, Clemson was the champion and Syracuse beat them, but that didn't make Syracuse the champion.

Second, UCF isn't getting any share of any championship. So you can close your case all you want, but it will just be your opinion, i.e., meaningless.

1) Syracuse wasn't undefeated
2) Clemson didn't make the CCG therefore they were not the man
Your apple to oranges response indicates that you are being either stupid or desperate in your AAC hatred. Anyway I'll take my own advice to UCF fans and tell you to EFF OFF

By "beat the man who beat the man" logic, you don't have to be undefeated, you just have to beat the man. Buster Douglass wasn't undefeated when he beat Mike Tyson.

You are full of AAC passion and vim and vigor right now, and it is clouding your judgment. There's no logical way to argue that because UCF beat 3-loss, #7 Auburn that makes them National Champions.

"Undefeated with a bowl win over a top 10 team." NAtional championships have been claimed with less justification than that.

(01-03-2018 11:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It is amazing watching UCF fans assign Magical Meaning to a skin of teeth win over a 3-loss Auburn team. As if that somehow trumps all other wins by everyone else.

Incredible, really.

Welcome to college football fandom, Quo.

(01-03-2018 11:50 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 09:15 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 08:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 08:30 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  I believe in the " in order to be the man you have to beat the man" rule. Well guess what, UCF beat the team that beat the teams in the championship game and went undefeated. Case close fellas ...

Well, first of all "beating the team that beat the teams" doesn't mean anything. As those teams weren't "the man" in the sense of beating the champion. Heck, Clemson was the champion and Syracuse beat them, but that didn't make Syracuse the champion.

Second, UCF isn't getting any share of any championship. So you can close your case all you want, but it will just be your opinion, i.e., meaningless.

1) Syracuse wasn't undefeated
2) Clemson didn't make the CCG therefore they were not the man
Your apple to oranges response indicates that you are being either stupid or desperate in your AAC hatred. Anyway I'll take my own advice to UCF fans and tell you to EFF OFF

By "beat the man who beat the man" logic, you don't have to be undefeated, you just have to beat the man. Buster Douglass wasn't undefeated when he beat Mike Tyson.

You are full of AAC passion and vim and vigor right now, and it is clouding your judgment. There's no logical way to argue that because UCF beat 3-loss, #7 Auburn that makes them National Champions.

"Undefeated with a bowl win over a top 10 team." NAtional championships have been claimed with less justification than that.

Anyone can claim anything they want. It's up to us to point out when it makes no sense.

There is no split title.. UCF National champs
Ala/Ga winner NIT champs.

(01-03-2018 12:23 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  There is no split title.. UCF National champs
Ala/Ga winner NIT champs.

There is no split title. USF, not UCF, National Champs.

See how easy that was for me to type those words? And how meaningless as well?

Like it or not, the CFP title game next week will decide the undisputed, consensus national champion.

(01-03-2018 12:32 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 12:23 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  There is no split title.. UCF National champs
Ala/Ga winner NIT champs.

There is no split title. USF, not UCF, National Champs.

See how easy that was for me to type those words? And how meaningless as well?

Like it or not, the CFP title game next week will decide the undisputed, consensus national champion.

Consensus of whom?

Sorry, but the AP is not required to vote for the winner of next weeks game, only the coaches are.

Wolfe takes all the computer, AP, Coaches, The CPF poll and others to compute who is number 1. Under his formula, UCF is number 1, Clemson was number 2 and Georgia number 3. Alabama is down at number 7 because of their weak schedule. Playing weaker FCS teams does not bring you up in the SoS. Auburn got credit for playing a top team like Jacksonville State. Jacksonville State>Mercer

Jacksonville State is a top 10 FCS team which is why SoS works out better. If auburn lost to Jacksonville State? It would be considered a good lost. If Florida State lost to Delaware State? That would have been a bad lost.

(01-03-2018 02:03 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  Sorry, but the AP is not required to vote for the winner of next weeks game, only the coaches are.

Very true. And yet (a) it doesn't matter if they vote for the winner or someone else, the winner is still the national champ, as agreed to by all the FBS conferences, the AP vote means nothing, and (b) the AP will vote the winner of that game #1 anyway.

(01-03-2018 11:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:50 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 09:15 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 08:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Well, first of all "beating the team that beat the teams" doesn't mean anything. As those teams weren't "the man" in the sense of beating the champion. Heck, Clemson was the champion and Syracuse beat them, but that didn't make Syracuse the champion.

Second, UCF isn't getting any share of any championship. So you can close your case all you want, but it will just be your opinion, i.e., meaningless.

1) Syracuse wasn't undefeated
2) Clemson didn't make the CCG therefore they were not the man
Your apple to oranges response indicates that you are being either stupid or desperate in your AAC hatred. Anyway I'll take my own advice to UCF fans and tell you to EFF OFF

By "beat the man who beat the man" logic, you don't have to be undefeated, you just have to beat the man. Buster Douglass wasn't undefeated when he beat Mike Tyson.

You are full of AAC passion and vim and vigor right now, and it is clouding your judgment. There's no logical way to argue that because UCF beat 3-loss, #7 Auburn that makes them National Champions.

"Undefeated with a bowl win over a top 10 team." NAtional championships have been claimed with less justification than that.

Anyone can claim anything they want. It's up to us to point out when it makes no sense.

What makes no sense is the logic by which the committee determines who should be in the playoff...it's getting stupid. No other sport has this kind of retardedness deciding a champion

It's pretty obvious they need to move to 8 teams. Ditch the Wizard of Oz-Men behind the curtain Committee as well

(01-03-2018 11:23 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:50 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 09:15 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  1) Syracuse wasn't undefeated
2) Clemson didn't make the CCG therefore they were not the man
Your apple to oranges response indicates that you are being either stupid or desperate in your AAC hatred. Anyway I'll take my own advice to UCF fans and tell you to EFF OFF

By "beat the man who beat the man" logic, you don't have to be undefeated, you just have to beat the man. Buster Douglass wasn't undefeated when he beat Mike Tyson.

You are full of AAC passion and vim and vigor right now, and it is clouding your judgment. There's no logical way to argue that because UCF beat 3-loss, #7 Auburn that makes them National Champions.

"Undefeated with a bowl win over a top 10 team." NAtional championships have been claimed with less justification than that.

Anyone can claim anything they want. It's up to us to point out when it makes no sense.

What makes no sense is the logic by which the committee determines who should be in the playoff...it's getting stupid. No other sport has this kind of retardedness deciding a champion

It's pretty obvious they need to move to 8 teams. Ditch the Wizard of Oz-Men behind the curtain Committee as well

You realize that if we had an 8-team playoff, we'd still have a committee determining who will fill at least some playoff spots. Heck, the NCAA tournament fills more than half its slots with a committee.

(01-05-2018 08:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:23 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:50 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  By "beat the man who beat the man" logic, you don't have to be undefeated, you just have to beat the man. Buster Douglass wasn't undefeated when he beat Mike Tyson.

You are full of AAC passion and vim and vigor right now, and it is clouding your judgment. There's no logical way to argue that because UCF beat 3-loss, #7 Auburn that makes them National Champions.

"Undefeated with a bowl win over a top 10 team." NAtional championships have been claimed with less justification than that.

Anyone can claim anything they want. It's up to us to point out when it makes no sense.

What makes no sense is the logic by which the committee determines who should be in the playoff...it's getting stupid. No other sport has this kind of retardedness deciding a champion

It's pretty obvious they need to move to 8 teams. Ditch the Wizard of Oz-Men behind the curtain Committee as well

You realize that if we had an 8-team playoff, we'd still have a committee determining who will fill at least some playoff spots. Heck, the NCAA tournament fills more than half its slots with a committee.

Yes, but even the Atlantic Sun have an auto bid, and the 1 seed is happy that they essentially get a first round bye.

Once the CFP goes to 8 and the undefeated G5 team ends up at #9 the G5 mob will be crying for an even bigger playoff.

The reality is the polls will just be manipulated to give great, but not top notch, P5 programs a shot instead of G5 long-shots.

The reality here is the college football world does not respect the G5 conferences enough to give them a shot. You can agree or disagree with that but its just reality.

(01-03-2018 03:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 02:03 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  Sorry, but the AP is not required to vote for the winner of next weeks game, only the coaches are.

Very true. And yet (a) it doesn't matter if they vote for the winner or someone else, the winner is still the national champ, as agreed to by all the FBS conferences, the AP vote means nothing, and (b) the AP will vote the winner of that game #1 anyway.

Danny White already has said we will recognize the winner as the.. whatever the official name of championship national champion.
Just we are the only undisputed undefeated national champion.

(01-01-2018 07:04 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  UCF Golden Knights.

2017 Undefeated 13-0 American College Football Champions.

Plenty of CFB national championships have been claimed with less justification.

That’s the specious argument on all sorts of levels. That happened in a different time, in a different era, under a different set of rules and guidelines. In the old days, UCF would not have even had a chance to play Auburn in a bowl game.

College football put in the playoff specifically to determine the national champion. It is still not where it needs to be but it is in evolution towards the ultimate goal of legitimately determining the national champion. The moment UCF was left out of the four-team playoff they had no legitimate claim to the national championship.

They can put up a banner, throw a parade, print up some t-shirts, hire a skywriter, etc., but they are never going to be considered the co-national champions by anyone outside that university’s inner circle.

Instead of arguing that, they should be using this unique opportunity to argue for the creation of a more inclusive larger scale playoff. That can become their legacy and that would be amazing!

They need to make sure that if they are ever in this position again, they have a real legitimate chance to win the whole thing. Arguing that their undefeated season is the same as what Georgia or Alabama is about to accomplish is just not going to hold water with the general public.

Personally, I think they could’ve competed with just about anyone and I would’ve liked to have seen them have that opportunity. However, there has not been enough of a push for that in the past and that’s why a team that very clearly could compete with just about anyone was never given that opportunity.

You have to remember that UCF is not the first Gang a Five school to win a BCS game. Houston, Boise State, Utah, TCU, etc., all were playoff caliber teams. Unfortunately, they just weren’t given that opportunity. Before them, what about Tulane?

They need to hire a PR firm and relentlessly beat the drum through carefully crafted and inarguable talking points that it’s time to move to a larger scale playoff. It can be eight teams or it can even be 16 teams, but it cannot be four teams because that is simply not a large enough field to fairly determine who is the national champion in a given year.

(01-05-2018 10:25 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 03:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 02:03 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  Sorry, but the AP is not required to vote for the winner of next weeks game, only the coaches are.

Very true. And yet (a) it doesn't matter if they vote for the winner or someone else, the winner is still the national champ, as agreed to by all the FBS conferences, the AP vote means nothing, and (b) the AP will vote the winner of that game #1 anyway.

Danny White already has said we will recognize the winner as the.. whatever the official name of championship national champion.
Just we are the only undisputed undefeated national champion.

The only part that is correct there is the "undefeated" part. If the CFP title game winner also gets the AP vote, then you will be the opposite of "undisputed", which is "everyone disputes it", LOL.

Bottom line is that UCF is going to finish what, around 6th in the polls? Very good season. Congrats.

(01-05-2018 09:40 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Once the CFP goes to 8 and the undefeated G5 team ends up at #9 the G5 mob will be crying for an even bigger playoff.

The reality is the polls will just be manipulated to give great, but not top notch, P5 programs a shot instead of G5 long-shots.

The reality here is the college football world does not respect the G5 conferences enough to give them a shot. You can agree or disagree with that but its just reality.

I don't think an 8 team playoff happens without guarantees to the PAC, the B1G, the XII (and the ACC, if they ever get left out) and the G5 that they will never be left out of the 8 team format. 6 autobids, 2 wildcards (either by committee or by a new BCS formula--probably the latter, since the Committee is the focus of the complaints, so it will be sacrificed, just like the old BCS formula was the focus of complaints, so it was replaced with the Committee.)

(01-05-2018 12:04 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(01-01-2018 07:04 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  UCF Golden Knights.

2017 Undefeated 13-0 American College Football Champions.

Plenty of CFB national championships have been claimed with less justification.

That’s the specious argument on all sorts of levels. That happened in a different time, in a different era, under a different set of rules and guidelines. In the old days, UCF would not have even had a chance to play Auburn in a bowl game.

College football put in the playoff specifically to determine the national champion. It is still not where it needs to be but it is in evolution towards the ultimate goal of legitimately determining the national champion. The moment UCF was left out of the four-team playoff they had no legitimate claim to the national championship.

Nope. The moment they were left out, despite being undefeated, was the ORIGIN of their claim to a share of the national title. Just like back in the old days where the system didn't allow a Rose Bowl winner to play a Sugar Bowl winner to settle the question. With UCF being undefeated, the question is unsettled.

Quote:They can put up a banner, throw a parade, print up some t-shirts, hire a skywriter, etc., but they are never going to be considered the co-national champions by anyone outside that university’s inner circle.

How different is that from the other 10-20 goofy NCs that P5 teams claim? (Possibly also Army, Navy, and the SWC left-behinds, I don't care enough to look it up--I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same thing).

Quote: Instead of arguing that, they should be using this unique opportunity to argue for the creation of a more inclusive larger scale playoff. That can become their legacy and that would be amazing!

They can't do that. They don't have the power to do that. They can yell "expand the playoff" until they're blue in the face and it won't matter.

Claiming a national championship, on the other hand, is something they DO control. They can hang any banner they want in their stadium, they control their twitter profile, they can overpay their coaches for national championship bonuses, they can get their school of graphic design to crank out a logo. They can get Disney World to host their "National Championship" parade.

Quote:They need to make sure that if they are ever in this position again, they have a real legitimate chance to win the whole thing. Arguing that their undefeated season is the same as what Georgia or Alabama is about to accomplish is just not going to hold water with the general public.

There have been numerous articles from national media types, not just Orlando-based Mike Bianchi (I think that's his name.) I don't think Dan LeBatard is a UCF guy, and he's on board. Someone at ESPN ran an article equating UCF's claim to a bunch of other bogus NC claims. (In a good way for UCF).

There is some pushback from people who feel that a G5 program can never be a national championship contender. But UCF is getting significant support outside Orlando and the AAC echo chamber. (UCF/AAC fans should not overestimate the depth of that support--nobody's going to boycott watching the Georgia-Alabama game, it doesn't "put an asterisk" on this years winner in anyone's eyes but UCF, AAC and maybe Nebraska fans.)

(01-05-2018 12:12 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  They need to hire a PR firm and relentlessly beat the drum through carefully crafted and inarguable talking points that it’s time to move to a larger scale playoff. It can be eight teams or it can even be 16 teams, but it cannot be four teams because that is simply not a large enough field to fairly determine who is the national champion in a given year.

What you are missing is that this IS the PR strategy.