(01-04-2018 07:55 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 07:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 06:38 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 12:24 PM)penguino Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 11:55 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  This is just not true. Rutgers invitation was contingent on Maryland accepting and offer first. There are many articles available that will corroborate these facts. I have seen no articles that say that Rutgers was first over Maryland

Rutgers waits to see if Maryland accepts

Waits to see if they accept because they're not bringing in just one school to make it 13. So no Maryland (or someone else) no Rutgers. It's not rocket science here. If Maryland didn't go, then we would have waited for someone else. And no, it wouldn't have been syracuse.....If it helps you sleep at night as a Syracuse fan to think RU was 14 so be it.

Your reply certainly doesnt support your statement that Rutgers was #12 ahead of Maryland. My being A SU fan has nothing to do with it.I was glad that Rutgers found a spot in the P5. I was trying to help you to see that you were wrong about being #12 or ahead of Maryland. Maryland was THE school for the BIG as it, in their minds, opens up access to the Southern ACC schools.

Nebraska was #12 guys. Maryland was #13. Rutgers was #14.

Correct JR. I didnt mention Nebraska because they were already invited to the BIG. My point has been that Maryland was the lynchpin for the next phase of BIG expansion, regarding programs that were accepting of the invites
.

You’re correct, cuseroc.

Take it from someone that followed Big Ten expansion as closely and wrote about it as much as anyone: it was 100% about Maryland. Without Maryland wanting to move, Rutgers would still be in the AAC. The Big Ten would have never taken Rutgers first (whereas there is a whole list of schools that the Big Ten would have taken along with Maryland). Of course, it’s water under the bridge now.

(01-04-2018 11:19 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 10:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 08:20 AM)penguino Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:18 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Va & NC are now the #1 tarkets of B-10 & SEC, but there not intrested, so why waste your time.
NYC & Rutgers were always B-10 #1 targets, Nebraska sidetracked that plan.
Flipping MD was key, puts Va & NC at thier doorstep
Rutgers & ACC knew it was a done deal

This......GT was never in over RU.

Georgia Tech cracks open the ACC in a way that Maryland didn't. (Especially if it's Maryland *AND* Georgia Tech.) That puts UNC and UVA (the real prizes for the Big Ten) in play.

Rutgers is the 2AM last resort after you strike out with the core ACC schools that would bring the BTN to the entire south Atlantic region.

Rutgers was never school #12 or #13. But part of me feels that the cable boxes in NJ made us #14. GT alone would have been an island, and even GT with Maryland doesn't have the same feeling as GT, MD, UVa and UNC. That configuration would have been a winner for the Big 10.

B1G has pursued a marketing plan in the NY/DC corridor with its new members so I am skeptical that Rutgers wasn't an important part of the strategy.

They should have gone with another East Coast school like UConn instead of Nebraska. Get the B1G into New England.

Rutgers struck gold. Maryland is a money, academic, and media market haven. Same for North Carolina. Virginia is up there and Georgia Tech not too far behind. If I were the B1G, I’d have offered Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, and Georgia Tech instead of Nebraska and Rutgers - but that’s just me.

Georgia Tech, academically, is precisely what the Big Ten would want. It is very much a Big Ten-like school. But, culturally, and even athletically...it was a push. I totally buy some feelers out there for them. Heck, technically, the way UMD put itself out there at the AAU meeting would be the kind of place where this stuff tended to happen. GT's president having a conversation with a Big Ten school's president? Nothing unique about that.

With Rutgers, there's no shame in being at the right place at the right time. Their fans need to stop revising history to make it seem like they were always a stud, though. Great school, intriguing location...be happy others said no.

The rumor at the time was that the BIG was talking to Notre Dame, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, and Georgia Tech about joining as a group, with FSU possibly getting an invitation as well. All (except FSU) are AAU and would be outstanding additions. The end result though, was NC convincing them instead to sign a GOR and that ended realignment talk.

Smart play by the Big Ten to go after the two schools in the most financial problems in the ACC to upend the cart. They got Maryland and Rutgers made a nice pair even if not as exciting as a Georgia Tech, UNC, Duke, Virginia, or other ACC partner.

I don't think GT would have been okay on an island so I think another school or two would have had to come to make it work better but I don't know if that would have been Florida State, Miami, Clemson, or whoever else. Maybe no one else goes and they stay on the island.

(01-06-2018 10:53 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Smart play by the Big Ten to go after the two schools in the most financial problems in the ACC to upend the cart. They got Maryland and Rutgers made a nice pair even if not as exciting as a Georgia Tech, UNC, Duke, Virginia, or other ACC partner.

I don't think GT would have been okay on an island so I think another school or two would have had to come to make it work better but I don't know if that would have been Florida State, Miami, Clemson, or whoever else. Maybe no one else goes and they stay on the island.

That's correct. The B1G wanted to keep to contiguous states and would not have taken GT alone. Supposedly GT was ready to move but UVA, UNC/Duke were not, so no move.

(01-03-2018 05:44 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The story I was told at the time by a guy who is a close friend of John Swofford was B1G had UNC as target #1 and would gladly take Duke to get them and Florida State was target #2. None of the three were interested and B1G started working on UVA and GT in the hope of creating a sense of urgency if not panic that would put B1G in position to scoop up at least one if not both of UNC and Florida State.

In the end Maryland being in dire financial straits created the only ACC willing to bite.

ACC folks like to get paid but they also like playing each other, it's a much tougher nut to crack than many believe.

This is more or less what I was led to believe, as well. The B1G was after UNC first, and would stomach Duke to get UNC.

I don't recall the details about FSU. But I did hear that after UNC and whatever other school fell through, then the B1G went after UVA and GT.

Not sure about the interaction from that point, but I always assumed that MD, and certainly Rutgers, were only considered after all that took place.

(01-04-2018 10:31 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 07:55 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 07:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 06:38 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 12:24 PM)penguino Wrote:  Waits to see if they accept because they're not bringing in just one school to make it 13. So no Maryland (or someone else) no Rutgers. It's not rocket science here. If Maryland didn't go, then we would have waited for someone else. And no, it wouldn't have been syracuse.....If it helps you sleep at night as a Syracuse fan to think RU was 14 so be it.

Your reply certainly doesnt support your statement that Rutgers was #12 ahead of Maryland. My being A SU fan has nothing to do with it.I was glad that Rutgers found a spot in the P5. I was trying to help you to see that you were wrong about being #12 or ahead of Maryland. Maryland was THE school for the BIG as it, in their minds, opens up access to the Southern ACC schools.

Nebraska was #12 guys. Maryland was #13. Rutgers was #14.

Correct JR. I didnt mention Nebraska because they were already invited to the BIG. My point has been that Maryland was the lynchpin for the next phase of BIG expansion, regarding programs that were accepting of the invites
.

You’re correct, cuseroc.

Take it from someone that followed Big Ten expansion as closely and wrote about it as much as anyone: it was 100% about Maryland. Without Maryland wanting to move, Rutgers would still be in the AAC. The Big Ten would have never taken Rutgers first (whereas there is a whole list of schools that the Big Ten would have taken along with Maryland). Of course, it’s water under the bridge now.

Yeah, I think the Big Ten had its eye on Maryland long before Maryland ever became available to them, even before the Big Ten put up the "vacancy" sign that led to them inviting Nebraska. They probably would have added Maryland instead of Nebraska had the pro-Big Ten leadership been in charge at Maryland at that time.

Nobody in the entire B1G moves the needle on the Georgia Tech football schedule. Not even Maryland. Sure, it would be a big and sorely needed payday for GT. It would also be a football death sentence, particularly on attendance. Oh, I'm sure the carpetbaggers in Atlanta would enjoy falling out of bed and landing in Bobby Dodd Stadium to see $diplomaFactoryHere play at GT. But GT fans?

I look forward to the ACC paying it forward to GT with more years of where half the conference gets a bye before they play GT. Maybe we could play two road games in a row not just at Clemson and Virginia Tech, but Florida State and Duke and UNC too.

(01-04-2018 03:57 PM)AntiG Wrote:  Shortly afterwards, they reached out to GT & UNC for expanding to 16 but UNC immediately rejected them. Pretty sure that if the conference had decided on forgoing the academics slightly and went after FSU, GT would have joined on.

Pretty sure you have no idea what GT fans value in the ACC. Clemson and Duke are requirements. FSU/VT/UNC are nice to have. At least NCST/WF are close. Screw Hooville and whatever voodoo curse has been installed upon that place since 1991. Pitt is a cultural match with some good but old history. Miami is more a love to hate than love deal. Everybody else? No interest. The problem is GT has one foot culturally in the SEC and one foot culturally in the ACC. It would like to play most of the SEC East (which should properly include Auburn). And most of the original ACC 9. The ACC's northern flank and the SEC West? Not so much.

(01-04-2018 10:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Georgia Tech cracks open the ACC in a way that Maryland didn't. (Especially if it's Maryland *AND* Georgia Tech.) That puts UNC and UVA (the real prizes for the Big Ten) in play.

Disagree unless Clemson/Duke are coming along which means also UNC/NCST/FSU are coming along too. The modern ACC football 9 (minus Maryland) is a relatively cohesive unit. An argument can be made that VT has replaced UMD in that original group of 9.

(01-04-2018 10:56 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 11:19 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 10:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 08:20 AM)penguino Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:18 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Va & NC are now the #1 tarkets of B-10 & SEC, but there not intrested, so why waste your time.
NYC & Rutgers were always B-10 #1 targets, Nebraska sidetracked that plan.
Flipping MD was key, puts Va & NC at thier doorstep
Rutgers & ACC knew it was a done deal

This......GT was never in over RU.

Georgia Tech cracks open the ACC in a way that Maryland didn't. (Especially if it's Maryland *AND* Georgia Tech.) That puts UNC and UVA (the real prizes for the Big Ten) in play.

Rutgers is the 2AM last resort after you strike out with the core ACC schools that would bring the BTN to the entire south Atlantic region.

Rutgers was never school #12 or #13. But part of me feels that the cable boxes in NJ made us #14. GT alone would have been an island, and even GT with Maryland doesn't have the same feeling as GT, MD, UVa and UNC. That configuration would have been a winner for the Big 10.

B1G has pursued a marketing plan in the NY/DC corridor with its new members so I am skeptical that Rutgers wasn't an important part of the strategy.

They should have gone with another East Coast school like UConn instead of Nebraska. Get the B1G into New England.

Yes but in the right combination with another school. I think it also took Notre Dame's move to the ACC finally closing the door on any possibility of going to the Big 10 that made Maryland, GT or anyone else from the ACC a possibility as well. But that's just speculation on my part.

(01-09-2018 09:05 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 03:57 PM)AntiG Wrote:  Shortly afterwards, they reached out to GT & UNC for expanding to 16 but UNC immediately rejected them. Pretty sure that if the conference had decided on forgoing the academics slightly and went after FSU, GT would have joined on.

Pretty sure you have no idea what GT fans value in the ACC. Clemson and Duke are requirements. FSU/VT/UNC are nice to have. At least NCST/WF are close. Screw Hooville and whatever voodoo curse has been installed upon that place since 1991. Pitt is a cultural match with some good but old history. Miami is more a love to hate than love deal. Everybody else? No interest. The problem is GT has one foot culturally in the SEC and one foot culturally in the ACC. It would like to play most of the SEC East (which should properly include Auburn). And most of the original ACC 9. The ACC's northern flank and the SEC West? Not so much.

As far as what GT fans value in the ACC, sure. I'm looking at this whole thing as an outsider. My point was that (at the time) in this hypothetical scenario with ACC unstable and potentially losing FSU to the B1G and Clemson to the SEC, given that the B1G is the #1 P5 conference in terms of both academics and money, they would be a top landing spot for GT if they were partnered with FSU, and might have been willing to part from the old rivals. They demand Duke and Clemson to come along? I'm sure B1G would be more than happy to oblige if they wanted in too.

(01-09-2018 09:05 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 10:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Georgia Tech cracks open the ACC in a way that Maryland didn't. (Especially if it's Maryland *AND* Georgia Tech.) That puts UNC and UVA (the real prizes for the Big Ten) in play.

Disagree unless Clemson/Duke are coming along which means also UNC/NCST/FSU are coming along too. The modern ACC football 9 (minus Maryland) is a relatively cohesive unit. An argument can be made that VT has replaced UMD in that original group of 9.

As far as the prizes for the B1G go in the ACC - UNC, Duke, GT, UVA are ideal fits in terms of their AAU status and DMA. FSU, Clemson, Miami, VT, BC, WF, NC State would probably be their next tier of candidates as they are great schools with great football histories in top DMAs untouched by the conference so far.

(01-09-2018 10:15 AM)AntiG Wrote:  

(01-09-2018 09:05 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 03:57 PM)AntiG Wrote:  Shortly afterwards, they reached out to GT & UNC for expanding to 16 but UNC immediately rejected them. Pretty sure that if the conference had decided on forgoing the academics slightly and went after FSU, GT would have joined on.

Pretty sure you have no idea what GT fans value in the ACC. Clemson and Duke are requirements. FSU/VT/UNC are nice to have. At least NCST/WF are close. Screw Hooville and whatever voodoo curse has been installed upon that place since 1991. Pitt is a cultural match with some good but old history. Miami is more a love to hate than love deal. Everybody else? No interest. The problem is GT has one foot culturally in the SEC and one foot culturally in the ACC. It would like to play most of the SEC East (which should properly include Auburn). And most of the original ACC 9. The ACC's northern flank and the SEC West? Not so much.

As far as what GT fans value in the ACC, sure. I'm looking at this whole thing as an outsider. My point was that (at the time) in this hypothetical scenario with ACC unstable and potentially losing FSU to the B1G and Clemson to the SEC, given that the B1G is the #1 P5 conference in terms of both academics and money, they would be a top landing spot for GT if they were partnered with FSU, and might have been willing to part from the old rivals. They demand Duke and Clemson to come along? I'm sure B1G would be more than happy to oblige if they wanted in too.

(01-09-2018 09:05 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 10:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Georgia Tech cracks open the ACC in a way that Maryland didn't. (Especially if it's Maryland *AND* Georgia Tech.) That puts UNC and UVA (the real prizes for the Big Ten) in play.

Disagree unless Clemson/Duke are coming along which means also UNC/NCST/FSU are coming along too. The modern ACC football 9 (minus Maryland) is a relatively cohesive unit. An argument can be made that VT has replaced UMD in that original group of 9.

As far as the prizes for the B1G go in the ACC - UNC, Duke, GT, UVA are ideal fits in terms of their AAU status and DMA. FSU, Clemson, Miami, VT, BC, WF, NC State would probably be their next tier of candidates as they are great schools with great football histories in top DMAs untouched by the conference so far.

The Big Ten would add Duke, but only if it were a condition of UNC agreeing to join. GT wouldn't have the pull to bring Duke with, and definitely wouldn't have the pull for Clemson either.

(01-09-2018 10:35 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-09-2018 10:15 AM)AntiG Wrote:  

(01-09-2018 09:05 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 03:57 PM)AntiG Wrote:  Shortly afterwards, they reached out to GT & UNC for expanding to 16 but UNC immediately rejected them. Pretty sure that if the conference had decided on forgoing the academics slightly and went after FSU, GT would have joined on.

Pretty sure you have no idea what GT fans value in the ACC. Clemson and Duke are requirements. FSU/VT/UNC are nice to have. At least NCST/WF are close. Screw Hooville and whatever voodoo curse has been installed upon that place since 1991. Pitt is a cultural match with some good but old history. Miami is more a love to hate than love deal. Everybody else? No interest. The problem is GT has one foot culturally in the SEC and one foot culturally in the ACC. It would like to play most of the SEC East (which should properly include Auburn). And most of the original ACC 9. The ACC's northern flank and the SEC West? Not so much.

As far as what GT fans value in the ACC, sure. I'm looking at this whole thing as an outsider. My point was that (at the time) in this hypothetical scenario with ACC unstable and potentially losing FSU to the B1G and Clemson to the SEC, given that the B1G is the #1 P5 conference in terms of both academics and money, they would be a top landing spot for GT if they were partnered with FSU, and might have been willing to part from the old rivals. They demand Duke and Clemson to come along? I'm sure B1G would be more than happy to oblige if they wanted in too.

(01-09-2018 09:05 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-04-2018 10:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Georgia Tech cracks open the ACC in a way that Maryland didn't. (Especially if it's Maryland *AND* Georgia Tech.) That puts UNC and UVA (the real prizes for the Big Ten) in play.

Disagree unless Clemson/Duke are coming along which means also UNC/NCST/FSU are coming along too. The modern ACC football 9 (minus Maryland) is a relatively cohesive unit. An argument can be made that VT has replaced UMD in that original group of 9.

As far as the prizes for the B1G go in the ACC - UNC, Duke, GT, UVA are ideal fits in terms of their AAU status and DMA. FSU, Clemson, Miami, VT, BC, WF, NC State would probably be their next tier of candidates as they are great schools with great football histories in top DMAs untouched by the conference so far.

The Big Ten would add Duke, but only if it were a condition of UNC agreeing to join. GT wouldn't have the pull to bring Duke with, and definitely wouldn't have the pull for Clemson either.

The B1G would probably welcome Duke with open arms regardless of who they came with. They are arguably the #1 basketball program in the country over the past 3 decades, have solid football, elite lacrosse, elite academics, elite olympic sports, and are in one of the primary target DMAs. They don't need to be partnered with UNC to get in.

(01-09-2018 10:42 AM)AntiG Wrote:  The B1G would probably welcome Duke with open arms regardless of who they came with. They are arguably the #1 basketball program in the country over the past 3 decades, have solid football, elite lacrosse, elite academics, elite olympic sports, and are in one of the primary target DMAs. They don't need to be partnered with UNC to get in.

If Duke were willing to leave UNC and UNC refused to join the Big Ten, then I suppose the Big Ten might take Duke. But that doesn't seem like a plausible scenario.

(01-09-2018 10:52 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-09-2018 10:42 AM)AntiG Wrote:  The B1G would probably welcome Duke with open arms regardless of who they came with. They are arguably the #1 basketball program in the country over the past 3 decades, have solid football, elite lacrosse, elite academics, elite olympic sports, and are in one of the primary target DMAs. They don't need to be partnered with UNC to get in.

If Duke were willing to leave UNC and UNC refused to join the Big Ten, then I suppose the Big Ten might take Duke. But that doesn't seem like a plausible scenario.

Exactly. [Duke UNC NCST WF GT Clemson FSU UVA VT]. The modern 9 with VT swapped for UMD. It's fairly cohesive and geographically reasonable. Throw in Pitt, ND, and the SEC East and that's soup to nuts the only teams GT cares about.

(01-09-2018 10:52 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-09-2018 10:42 AM)AntiG Wrote:  The B1G would probably welcome Duke with open arms regardless of who they came with. They are arguably the #1 basketball program in the country over the past 3 decades, have solid football, elite lacrosse, elite academics, elite olympic sports, and are in one of the primary target DMAs. They don't need to be partnered with UNC to get in.

If Duke were willing to leave UNC and UNC refused to join the Big Ten, then I suppose the Big Ten might take Duke. But that doesn't seem like a plausible scenario.

Agree there - my point was that Duke for the B1G would not just be a tag-along partner. If Duke wanted to defect, the B1G would welcome them with open arms. They are an ideal fit and at the same time would punch a nice hole into the ACC as well.

(01-09-2018 10:35 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  GT wouldn't have the pull to bring Duke with, and definitely wouldn't have the pull for Clemson either.

Agree. And that's why GT said no: you don't go to a conference full of teams you have NOTHING in common with, no matter how big the paycheck is, because you'll kill your own fan base sooner or later. Well, I'll grant an exception if the conference you're in has no feasible path to the National Championship. Then you take the money and run. But if you're already in a conference good enough to win the NC, why would you do that? The only way you can survive playing a bunch of teams from far away you have nothing in common with is if you win and win at a high level and KEEP winning at a high level.

From where I'm sitting much of the moves within the P5 seem to be moves of culture just as much as theoretical money. Colorado isn't cashing in some huge payday relative to what they would get in the Big 12. But does a team from Boulder, CO seem like a much better fit with teams from Palo Alto, Berkeley, Eugene, and Los Angeles than teams from Lubbock, Austin, Stillwater, and Norman? Does a team from College Park, MD seem like a much better fit with teams from Columbus, Ann Arbor, Champaigne, and Minneapolis than teams from Raleigh, Winston-Salem, Atlanta, Blacksburg, and Tallahassee? Yeah.

And I think you're kidding yourself if that isn't at least a factor in these decisions. It was ofc largely former B1G alumni in charge of UMD's athletics when they moved. And that cultural fit with those places meant UMD was OK putting those people in charge in the first place.

(01-04-2018 08:20 AM)penguino Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 11:18 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Va & NC are now the #1 tarkets of B-10 & SEC, but there not intrested, so why waste your time.
NYC & Rutgers were always B-10 #1 targets, Nebraska sidetracked that plan.
Flipping MD was key, puts Va & NC at thier doorstep
Rutgers & ACC knew it was a done deal

This......GT was never in over RU.

Maryland was added to the Big Ten sometime in the winter during basketball season. I remember early that academic year that the Rutgers AD told a bunch of BMD’s at the football game in Fayetteville, AR that they were going to the B1G. Their announcement occur once the Big Ten found a fourteenth member. Months later, Maryland held their press conference, then the next day Rutgers did.