I've been thinking this needs its own thread for a while. It's abundantly clear Trump has no business being POTUS on multiple non-partisan, non-ideological levels. He proves that several times a week, minimum.

Latest entry, the "shithole countries" comment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/...ff47f9c4a1

Props to Acosta for not mincing words: "what we have to come to grips with...we can dance around it .... but the president seems to harbor racist feelings toward people of color."

And of course, earlier this morning after watching Fox News he tweeted opposition to a bill his admin has been pushing for a week. So very, very competent.

I am beginning to think you don't like Trump. Just a vague feeling.

Some questions.

Is any country a "shithole" country? If so, what defines a country as "shithole"? My general feeling is that "shithole" is any country I never want to visit and would never consider moving there. But that's me. what about you?

And going back to the title of this thread, define "fitness" to be President and how to determine it. I thought that is what elections were for.

(01-11-2018 05:51 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  It's abundantly clear Trump has no business being POTUS

He was duly elected.

The dude rained on Queen Hillary's coronation. Obviously, he deserves to be drawn and quartered for that.

So who does Haiti hate more: Trump or Clinton?

THE FUTURE OF THE $30 BILLION DOLLAR WALL

Trumpity Drumpfity ran on a Great Wall,
All electrified and thirty feet tall.
So all the braceros bought tickets instead
And laughed at poor Trump from the skies overhead.

The Centuries of Trumpadamus, Vol 1

(01-11-2018 07:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am beginning to think you don't like Trump. Just a vague feeling.

Some questions.

Is any country a "shithole" country? If so, what defines a country as "shithole"? My general feeling is that "shithole" is any country I never want to visit and would never consider moving there. But that's me. what about you?

And going back to the title of this thread, define "fitness" to be President and how to determine it. I thought that is what elections were for.

Bump. Serious questions, JAAOs.

(01-11-2018 09:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 07:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am beginning to think you don't like Trump. Just a vague feeling.

Some questions.

Is any country a "shithole" country? If so, what defines a country as "shithole"? My general feeling is that "shithole" is any country I never want to visit and would never consider moving there. But that's me. what about you?

And going back to the title of this thread, define "fitness" to be President and how to determine it. I thought that is what elections were for.

Bump. Serious questions, JAAOs.

If Clinton had won, would you think that meant she was fit to be President?

(01-12-2018 12:12 AM)JSA Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 09:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 07:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am beginning to think you don't like Trump. Just a vague feeling.

Some questions.

Is any country a "shithole" country? If so, what defines a country as "shithole"? My general feeling is that "shithole" is any country I never want to visit and would never consider moving there. But that's me. what about you?

And going back to the title of this thread, define "fitness" to be President and how to determine it. I thought that is what elections were for.

Bump. Serious questions, JAAOs.

If Clinton had won, would you think that meant she was fit to be President?

Depends on the definition of "fit", which is what I am asking.

They both met the qualifications in the Constitution. What other qualifications should be met?

I think there were a lot of people who thought Lincoln was not fit to be president.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/08/09/p...index.html

People are missing the point on Trump's shithole comment. He said it behind the scenes, some pissed off politicians (Graham maybe?) spilled the beans on him, and he won't deny it or apologize for it.

Even if his comment has some truth to it (some of those countries are in really bad shape and may never be salvageable at this point), you have to show restraint and class every now and then. No one from Haiti was insulting Trump on twitter (at least no one he is following). Now you have school kids everywhere seeing and hearing about 'shitholes'. He is setting such a terrible example for the youth of our country with his actions every single day.

Do you think any of his base would have minded if he had said instead - why do we want these N-word from these Shithole countries? More and more, I am beginning to think he's sounding like George Wallace.

(01-11-2018 09:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 07:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am beginning to think you don't like Trump. Just a vague feeling.

Some questions.

Is any country a "shithole" country? If so, what defines a country as "shithole"? My general feeling is that "shithole" is any country I never want to visit and would never consider moving there. But that's me. what about you?

And going back to the title of this thread, define "fitness" to be President and how to determine it. I thought that is what elections were for.

Bump. Serious questions, JAAOs.

Serious question: Are you ok with his comment?

(01-12-2018 06:45 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  People are missing the point on Trump's shithole comment. He said it behind the scenes, some pissed off politicians (Graham maybe?) spilled the beans on him, and he won't deny it or apologize for it.

Even if his comment has some truth to it (some of those countries are in really bad shape and may never be salvageable at this point), you have to show restraint and class every now and then. No one from Haiti was insulting Trump on twitter (at least no one he is following). Now you have school kids everywhere seeing and hearing about 'shitholes'. He is setting such a terrible example for the youth of our country with his actions every single day.

Do you think any of his base would have minded if he had said instead - why do we want these N-word from these Shithole countries? More and more, I am beginning to think he's sounding like George Wallace.

Yup, and intentionally so.

As to your last question, with the more data I gather, the more I believe the answer is no.

(01-12-2018 06:45 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  People are missing the point on Trump's shithole comment. He said it behind the scenes, some pissed off politicians (Graham maybe?) spilled the beans on him, and he won't deny it or apologize for it.

Even if his comment has some truth to it (some of those countries are in really bad shape and may never be salvageable at this point), you have to show restraint and class every now and then. No one from Haiti was insulting Trump on twitter (at least no one he is following). Now you have school kids everywhere seeing and hearing about 'shitholes'. He is setting such a terrible example for the youth of our country with his actions every single day.

Do you think any of his base would have minded if he had said instead - why do we want these N-word from these Shithole countries? More and more, I am beginning to think he's sounding like George Wallace.

It also doesn’t jive with his merit based comments. A merit based immigration policy doesn’t care how much of a shithole your country is - it cares about how much of a shithole you are.

Also, he made a comment previously disparaging Nigerian immigrants (something about not wanting them because they would never go back to their huts, IIRC). Nigerian immigrants are one of the wealthiest immigrant groups in the US.

I think Don Lemon sums it up pretty well here:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/...es-sot.cnn

No reasonable person can deny Trump is a racist any more. The fact that people are still trying is sad and pathetic. Even worse is that some seem to be OK with it.

I'm pretty much done discussing Trump. I'd like to see Republicans put country before party and call for him to resign. I won't like President Pence's or President Ryan's policies much, if any, better than Trump's, but I won't worry they are going to start a war on twitter or further destroy our institutions or our standing in the world.

Or as Mitt Romney put it "I don't want to see a president of the United States saying things which change the character of the generations of Americans that are following. Presidents have an impact on the nature of our nation, and trickle-down racism, trickle-down bigotry, trickle-down misogyny, all these things are extraordinarily dangerous to the heart and character of America."

I'm out.

(01-12-2018 08:10 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  I think Don Lemon sums it up pretty well here:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/...es-sot.cnn

No reasonable person can deny Trump is a racist any more. The fact that people are still trying is sad and pathetic. Even worse is that some seem to be OK with it.

I'm pretty much done discussing Trump. I'd like to see Republicans put country before party and call for him to resign. I won't like President Pence's or President Ryan's policies much, if any, better than Trumps, but I won't worry they are going to start a war on twitter or further destroy our institutions or our standing in the world.

Or as Mitt Romney put it "I don't want to see a president of the United States saying things which change the character of the generations of Americans that are following. Presidents have an impact on the nature of our nation, and trickle-down racism, trickle-down bigotry, trickle-down misogyny, all these things are extraordinarily dangerous to the heart and character of America."

I'm out.

Somehow people will still carry water for him instead of calling a spade a spade and realizing that winning the electoral college doesn’t necessarily mean you are fit for handling the position (fitness isn’t eligibility). On this board I’ve already seen deflections by trying to define shithole or somehow tying this to a non-existant outrage that Clinton lost, instead of actually acknowledging that Trump just summarily waved off millions of potential high-quality citizens because of their country of origin and not their merit/quality. I thought he wanted extreme vetting, which means where you come from doesn’t matter, no matte how much of a shithole it is.

(01-12-2018 08:30 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 08:10 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  I think Don Lemon sums it up pretty well here:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/...es-sot.cnn

No reasonable person can deny Trump is a racist any more. The fact that people are still trying is sad and pathetic. Even worse is that some seem to be OK with it.

I'm pretty much done discussing Trump. I'd like to see Republicans put country before party and call for him to resign. I won't like President Pence's or President Ryan's policies much, if any, better than Trumps, but I won't worry they are going to start a war on twitter or further destroy our institutions or our standing in the world.

Or as Mitt Romney put it "I don't want to see a president of the United States saying things which change the character of the generations of Americans that are following. Presidents have an impact on the nature of our nation, and trickle-down racism, trickle-down bigotry, trickle-down misogyny, all these things are extraordinarily dangerous to the heart and character of America."

I'm out.

Somehow people will still carry water for him instead of calling a spade a spade and realizing that winning the electoral college doesn’t necessarily mean you are fit for handling the position (fitness isn’t eligibility). On this board I’ve already seen deflections by trying to define shithole or somehow tying this to a non-existant outrage that Clinton lost, instead of actually acknowledging that Trump just summarily waved off millions of potential high-quality citizens because of their country of origin and not their merit/quality. I thought he wanted extreme vetting, which means where you come from doesn’t matter, no matte how much of a shithole it is.

I'm not carrying water for anyone, nor am I defending Trump.

The question before you is valid and as yet unanswered: what is this "fitness" test, and who is charged with administering it if not the voters?

(01-12-2018 08:39 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 08:30 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 08:10 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  I think Don Lemon sums it up pretty well here:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/...es-sot.cnn

No reasonable person can deny Trump is a racist any more. The fact that people are still trying is sad and pathetic. Even worse is that some seem to be OK with it.

I'm pretty much done discussing Trump. I'd like to see Republicans put country before party and call for him to resign. I won't like President Pence's or President Ryan's policies much, if any, better than Trumps, but I won't worry they are going to start a war on twitter or further destroy our institutions or our standing in the world.

Or as Mitt Romney put it "I don't want to see a president of the United States saying things which change the character of the generations of Americans that are following. Presidents have an impact on the nature of our nation, and trickle-down racism, trickle-down bigotry, trickle-down misogyny, all these things are extraordinarily dangerous to the heart and character of America."

I'm out.

Somehow people will still carry water for him instead of calling a spade a spade and realizing that winning the electoral college doesn’t necessarily mean you are fit for handling the position (fitness isn’t eligibility). On this board I’ve already seen deflections by trying to define shithole or somehow tying this to a non-existant outrage that Clinton lost, instead of actually acknowledging that Trump just summarily waved off millions of potential high-quality citizens because of their country of origin and not their merit/quality. I thought he wanted extreme vetting, which means where you come from doesn’t matter, no matte how much of a shithole it is.

I'm not carrying water for anyone, nor am I defending Trump.

The question before you is valid and as yet unanswered: what is this "fitness" test, and who is charged with administering it if not the voters?

Voters don’t judge fitness, definitely not so once elected. There isn’t, and shouldn’t be, a defined test, outside of immediate eligibility requirements, to either be elected to or maintain the presidency. A process such as that would be ripe for misuse and abuse. I think an annual physical that includes mental cognition would be ideal, and requiring that the overall health of POTUS (conducted by multiple docs) be released to the public or House/Senate. That way, should a true neurologically disorder be found in any future President, action could be taken.

But when your response to questioning someone’s fitness for POTUS because of comments such as these is to parse what fitness means and how would a fitness test be administered, how is that not carrying water? Explain to me how these comments indicate Trump is fit, not eligible or elected, to be POTUS.

(01-12-2018 09:04 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 08:39 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 08:30 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 08:10 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  I think Don Lemon sums it up pretty well here:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/...es-sot.cnn

No reasonable person can deny Trump is a racist any more. The fact that people are still trying is sad and pathetic. Even worse is that some seem to be OK with it.

I'm pretty much done discussing Trump. I'd like to see Republicans put country before party and call for him to resign. I won't like President Pence's or President Ryan's policies much, if any, better than Trumps, but I won't worry they are going to start a war on twitter or further destroy our institutions or our standing in the world.

Or as Mitt Romney put it "I don't want to see a president of the United States saying things which change the character of the generations of Americans that are following. Presidents have an impact on the nature of our nation, and trickle-down racism, trickle-down bigotry, trickle-down misogyny, all these things are extraordinarily dangerous to the heart and character of America."

I'm out.

Somehow people will still carry water for him instead of calling a spade a spade and realizing that winning the electoral college doesn’t necessarily mean you are fit for handling the position (fitness isn’t eligibility). On this board I’ve already seen deflections by trying to define shithole or somehow tying this to a non-existant outrage that Clinton lost, instead of actually acknowledging that Trump just summarily waved off millions of potential high-quality citizens because of their country of origin and not their merit/quality. I thought he wanted extreme vetting, which means where you come from doesn’t matter, no matte how much of a shithole it is.

I'm not carrying water for anyone, nor am I defending Trump.

The question before you is valid and as yet unanswered: what is this "fitness" test, and who is charged with administering it if not the voters?

Voters don’t judge fitness, definitely not so once elected. There isn’t, and shouldn’t be, a defined test, outside of immediate eligibility requirements, to either be elected to or maintain the presidency. A process such as that would be ripe for misuse and abuse. I think an annual physical that includes mental cognition would be ideal, and requiring that the overall health of POTUS (conducted by multiple docs) be released to the public or House/Senate. That way, should a true neurologically disorder be found in any future President, action could be taken.

But when your response to questioning someone’s fitness for POTUS because of comments such as these is to parse what fitness means and how would a fitness test be administered, how is that not carrying water? Explain to me how these comments indicate Trump is fit, not eligible or elected, to be POTUS.

My comments don't indicate that Trump is fit. I never said any such thing. I'm not arguing that Trump is fit. Please don't put words in my mouth.

To be clear - there’s a big difference between saying someone is unfit (a criticism) and someone should be removed from office because of their unfitness (an action), just as there is between saying, here are the issues created by removing someone from Office because they aren’t “unfit” even if how they act does make you question it (a valid critique), and please define unfit for me (a deflection technique).